Improve a mech but with some limits...

BattleTech : Designs Previous Index Next Threaded
Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | (show all)
Karagin
05/09/12 12:15 PM
217.5.180.117

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
That is a good way to look at using the engine type.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Rotwang
05/09/12 05:11 PM
94.227.112.112

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
Javelin JVN-10XT

Mass: 30 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Dark Ages
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/E-F-E
Production Year: 3132
Cost: 2.976.740 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1.012

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 180 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 64,8 km/h
Maximum Speed: 97,2 km/h (129,6 km/h)
Jump Jets: Unknown
Jump Capacity: 180 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
4 Medium Lasers
1 Small Pulse Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 51 points 1,50
Internal Locations: 1 HD, 1 CT, 3 LT, 3 RT, 3 LA, 3 RA
Engine: Fusion Engine 180 7,00
Walking MP: 6
Running MP: 9 (12)
Jumping MP: 6 Standard
Jump Jet Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT, 2 LL, 2 RL 3,00
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 10(20) 0,00
Heat Sink Locations: 2 LT, 1 RT
Gyro: Standard 2,00
Cockpit: Standard 3,00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 104 6,50

Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 10 15
Center Torso (rear) 4
L/R Torso 7 10
L/R Torso (rear) 4
L/R Arm 5 10
L/R Leg 7 14

================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Medium Lasers RT 6 2 2,00
MASC RT - 2 2,00
2 Medium Lasers LT 6 2 2,00
Small Pulse Laser CT 2 1 1,00
Free Critical Slots: 11

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 3 Points: 10
8/6j 3 2 0 0 1 0 Structure: 3
Special Abilities: ENE, SRCH, ES, SOA

Here is my take on it. It's the Fire Javelin with MASC and an extra pulse laser. It's a hit and run guerrilla fighter/raider.
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
05/09/12 07:39 PM
99.202.157.225

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
PoD are you feeling alright! You just complemented me...

=P
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
NeverSayNever
05/25/12 03:02 PM
92.228.143.197

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
Quote:

Okay lets see what you guys can come up with for improving the 3050 base line Javelin JVN-10P mech. You can revamp it as much as you feel needed or less, but the cost can not go over 4 million Cbills. All Inner Sphere tech of the 3050 era is allowed.





How about a RetroTech stylish 3025 downgrade approach?

Simply remove the SRM6 plus SRM6-ammo and remove the StreakSRM2 and ammo as well, then install three SRM2 launchers per side torso location and allocate one ton of SRM2 ammo per side torso.


fluff reasons for downgrade:

not enough SRM6 launchers/ammo and or Streak SRM2 launchers/ammo available (corresponding resources have been allocated to other projects / Mech designs with higher priority levels) but a huge surplus of outdated SRM2 launchers and ammo (including old fashioned inferno SRM2 rounds = best used for anti tank and or anti infantry (anti battle armor as well?)) in stock

demand for a light, highly mobile, low cost, multi purpose, Mech based weapons platform


Best of all: should the resource shortage get fixed anytime soon it would only take a simple field refit / upgrade to get a JVN-10N or -10P.


munchkin sidenotes: six launchers = six independent to-hit-rolls, plus inferno ammo is one of your best low tech friends if dealing with tanks, infantry - and or rebellious citizens (anti riot garrison duty mercenary contract)


So if you don't mind RetroTech stylish, low tech downgrades with a little bit of low tech munchkin and or roleplay flavour - feel free to enjoy the ride ...


Have a nice day / night.
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
05/27/12 08:58 PM
173.96.187.29

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
Quote:

munchkin sidenotes: six launchers = six independent to-hit-rolls, plus inferno ammo is one of your best low tech friends if rebellious citizens (anti riot garrison duty mercenary contract)




Now that is just out right wrong! There is a reason its ageist the rules of war.

I still think that inferno rules need to be totally redone because its WAY to one sided. A mech should be more prone to fire damage than a tank do to more exposed unarmored places do to joints and infinity would be scattering as soon as they see the flames descending on them. I mean really, as the rules are a 100,000 ton sea going battleship can be taken out with one shot from a 2 ton hovercraft that has a OS-SRM-2 inferno. And people came that as I see things I am a munchkin and they are totally OK with this and they are anything but a munchkin.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
scheinlen
05/28/12 08:04 AM
204.111.93.186

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
The fire rules dont cover that a battle ship and there crew are trained in fire /damage control, compartmentalized, and designed for combat.fire surpression systems and bulkheads are a most if you have a Million or Billion dollar piece of equipment such as a battle ship or Battle Mech.

A tankers enemy if fire, as I spent Several years of my life in the U.S. Army, The fuel for the moderan tank is very combustable, ammo only takes so much heat before it exspodes, and rubber takes and melts. Track cleats, hoses, electronics, all melt...A tank is designed for planet side combat, not under water or in space.
A mech that is designed to fight under water, in space on a moon, and heat or cold planet side would need to have a need for insulation/ fire surpression systems and fire retardent that would make the space shuttle happy. It would have too for a Orbital drop pod in air borne operations.

The thing I dont see is a mech vs a tank in soft terrain. A tank spreads it's weight out and can float to a point because of the sealed hull (Swamp or marsh or even in light sand and mud)
A mech has all of its weight on its feet, displacment sucks... I give the mech with four feet the ok, but a 50 to 100 ton or more mech in soft ground. nada... I have had to march through soft soil, carring a pack and gear. that is why in the winter meany wars have boged down until spring comes.
It is not my job to judge my Enemies, that is there God's job. It is only my duty to arrange the meeting!
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
05/28/12 05:28 PM
173.149.133.229

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
OK if a ICE engine in a tank would destroy a tank then why would not the same be for a ICE mech?

There are tanks that have a fusion engines so they should not be affected since they don't carry fuel.

Mechs carry ammo just like a tank so why would not a inferno missile not destroy the mech?

So far I have yet heard a good reason that a inferno missile should out right destroy a tank and not a mech.

I still think that a inferno missile should not be a one shot one kill weapon ageist any vehicles no matter its mass.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
scheinlen
05/28/12 06:35 PM
204.111.123.23

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
well for a drastic example; I would not want to be near a fuel truck or a ammo truck that got hit by a infernal round of any type. and for tanks and mechs there are several types of each. but the game only clusters them into a sigle type. I believe that seperation of the different types is "home grown" or house rules... it would be to much to brake them all down to singles for the Game Makers. As to the Infernal rounds and the damage done; well soome commin since needs to be introed at more then one place in the rules of BT or other games also.
A M1 A2 main battle tank and the Leopard both have fire supression systems... but a T-72 does not.. Same can be said about the modern version of the Case Sytems for the main gun ammo of these tanks.
For that matter were is the one shot one kill Hellfire and Tow II missles that out range most main guns of MBTs, fired from Helos and vtols today against tanks, the game must have a balance. so the designers are not perfect that is why rules get up dated and changed... dont like the rule, please write a "change" so all of us can enjoy it.

I will use it also.
It is not my job to judge my Enemies, that is there God's job. It is only my duty to arrange the meeting!


Edited by scheinlen (05/28/12 06:35 PM)
Karagin
05/28/12 08:58 PM
72.178.85.122

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
Fire does kill vehicles in BT faster then it does mechs. Check the rules and ignore the home ruling or thinking that is being given.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
scheinlen
05/28/12 09:31 PM
204.111.104.60

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
I see says the humbal student: Thanks for the wisdom... Now were is the enemy!
It is not my job to judge my Enemies, that is there God's job. It is only my duty to arrange the meeting!
CrayModerator
05/29/12 05:19 PM
173.168.112.109

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
Quote:

The thing I dont see is a mech vs a tank in soft terrain. A tank spreads it's weight out and can float to a point because of the sealed hull (Swamp or marsh or even in light sand and mud)




The ground pressure of a stationary 'Mech is similar to a tank.

A 12m tall 'Mech (typical) with 2m x 2m feet (akin to the pod-like feet of Griffins or Shadowhawks) would have a total of 8 square meters (12,386 square inches) of ground contact area. For a 55-ton 'Mech (121,275 pounds), that's 9.79 pounds per square inch ground pressure.

The Abrams, meanwhile, peaks at 15.4psi for the M1A2.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/m1-specs.htm

The trick wording I used above is "stationary." A running human - and presumably running 'Mech - hits the ground with about 3 times its weight on the landing foot. That's half the area and 3 times the force for 6 times the ground pressure: about 60psi, or 20psi when walking carefully.

So, potentially, the ground pressures can be comparable for slow-moving 'Mechs. A 'Mech pelting across a field is going to be pounding some mecha-sasquatch footprints into the ground and it will get into trouble on soft ground.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
scheinlen
05/29/12 07:04 PM
204.111.95.206

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
Yep, about what I thought. Also I have seen tracks of armored vehicles leave trails hip deep at times... But normally if a Squadron or company spreads out some trails are not so bad. but in a fast crossing , dont bother trying to follow in a wheeled vehicle...

I could only imaginne the damage done by a 100 ton mech at a charge!
It is not my job to judge my Enemies, that is there God's job. It is only my duty to arrange the meeting!
NeverSayNever
05/31/12 04:00 PM
78.50.198.135

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
Quote:

Quote:

munchkin sidenotes: six launchers = six independent to-hit-rolls, plus inferno ammo is one of your best low tech friends if rebellious citizens (anti riot garrison duty mercenary contract)




Now that is just out right wrong! There is a reason its ageist the rules of war.

[...]






Quote:

There is a reason its ageist the rules of war.




If you've been thinking about something like the "Ares Conventions"

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Ares_Conventions

as some kind of "rules of [civilized] war[fare]", well, IMVHO they're more like entirely optional fluff text / background story elements for roleplayers but not necesarily binding 'rules' for playing the BatteTech board game.


Unfortunately you compressed the original text / quote a little bit too much (IMVHO) and omitted a few points.

original text / quote from "NeverSaNever":
Quote:


[...]
munchkin sidenotes: six launchers = six independent to-hit-rolls, plus inferno ammo is one of your best low tech friends if dealing with tanks, infantry - and or rebellious citizens (anti riot garrison duty mercenary contract)
[...]






My sidenote was referring to munchkins in particular - and munchkins tend to go to extremes -, so it wasn't directed at the average BattleTech board game player.

IMVHO almost every munchkin would not hesitate to take full advantage of "inferno ammo" if dealing with valid military targets / units ("tanks, infantry") simply because "inferno ammo is one of your best low tech [= 3025, lvl 1 tech era] friends if dealing with tanks, infantry", in addition many munchkins would not hesitate to take full advantage of "inferno ammo" if dealing with valid para military targets / units ("rebellious citizens", sometimes also known as 'rebels', 'partisans', 'guerilleros' (spelling?), 'resistance' fighters) particularly if aforementioned "rebellious citizens" weren't picky regarding their choice of weapons - and or their use of para military tactics / strategies.

Basically the moment a citizen / civilian (= a non combatant, not a valid target) decides to pick up a military grade weapon, which would turn him / her into a para military threat, he / she would turn him- / herself into a combatant / valid para military target.

Unarmed citizen / civilian shouting, shaking his / her fists in protest = a non combatant, not a valid target.

Armed citizen, e.g. one carrying a weapon designed for war, like an assault rifle, a portable missile launcher, a satchel charge, or whatever = a combatant = a valid para military target.

Of course some munchkins might not hesitate to take full advantage of "inferno ammo" if dealing with unarmed citizens, probably simply because they could get away with it and would not care much about any roleplay related, fluff based penalties and or restrictions.

Please keep in mind that the "Ares Conventions" are basically nothing but pure fluff for roleplayers and if I recall correctly even some of the five great "Houses" in the fictional canon BattleTech history did not fight by the rules of the "Ares Conventions" all the time, pretty much the same would apply to the "Clans" (e.g. orbital bombardment of "Turtle Bay" on the planet "Edo").

Playing by the optional rules of 'civilized' warfare would only detract a hardcore munchkin from his / her ultimate goal: 'winning' - at all costs and or by any means necessary ...


By the way, if you take a closer look at real history you might notice that sometimes, you know, during wartime, even some of the more / most advanced and or 'civilized' nations / countries of their time allowed the military use of rather cruel and 'barbaric' [at least IMVHO] methods of (total) warfare:


"Greek fire" (Byzantine Empire):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_fire


"Napalm" (several nations / countries since World War II):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napalm

[Please don't miss the section about "International law" on the use of Napalm and the finer details / fine print, like some countries reserving themselves the option to selectively sign only specific protocols.]


[Basically many hardcore BattleTech munchkins c/would try a rather similar approach: selectively pick only specific parts / sub sets of a given BattleTech ruleset, probably only those which favor the munchkin's style of play, or game rules which restrict the other players' styles of play, you know, to help the munchkin 'win' the game, simply because that's what it's all about, at least to a hardcore BattleTech munchkin: 'winning' is the game, nothing else really matters ...]


With the BattleTech universe offering some kind of a fictional version of a 'history' of a potential future - and the tendency of history to keep repeating itself - one should not be too surprised if, for example, fictional "inferno ammo" gets (ab)used in an imaginary future in almost any way imaginable ...



Just some food for thought ...

Have a nice day / night.
scheinlen
05/31/12 07:59 PM
204.111.93.151

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
Infernel ammo is a top choice for digging out infantry in ruble of bunker. Flame throwers are great as well, but a mech carring them also rune the risk of taking a hit on said ammo just like a soldier carring one on his back... has no buddies that want to be in his Blast area if he or she takes a hit in his equipment. Bullets vs flamethrower pack ... BAD MOJO..
It is not my job to judge my Enemies, that is there God's job. It is only my duty to arrange the meeting!
Pages: 1 | 2 | (show all)

Extra information
0 registered and 5 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Nic Jansma, Cray, mattbuck, Frabby, BobTheZombie 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Topic views: 5012


Contact Admins Sarna.net