Vapor
Lieutenant
Reged: 11/15/02
Posts: 699
Loc: Guam
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Jackal PRIME
#49290 - 02/04/03 07:32 AM (202.123.139.27)
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Ok, bear with me. I am not an experienced 'Mech designer. Every design I've done so far has been done with a pencil, paper, and calculator, and I never bothered to come up with any fluff for them when I was done. This is the first 'Mech I ever designed on my own. I haven't come up with any fluff for it, yet, and please let me know if the name is already in use by another 'Mech. I just used HMPro to make it nice and neat. 
code:
BattleMech Technical Readout
Type/Model: Jackal PRIME
Tech: Clan / 3058
Config: Biped OmniMech
Rules: Level 2, Custom design
Mass: 70 tons
Chassis: Endo Steel
Power Plant: 280 XL Fusion
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor Type: Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
2 Type XV LB 20-X ACs
1 Faraday LB 10-X AC
1 Series 1 ER Small Laser
1 "Hellfire" Series II Flamer
1 ECM Suite
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System: (Unknown)
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Jackal PRIME
Mass: 70 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 107 pts Endo Steel 7 3.50
(Endo Steel Loc: 3 LT, 3 RT, 1 LL)
Engine: 280 XL Fusion 10 8.00
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 10 Double [20] 0 .00
Gyro: 4 3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA R: Sh+UA 12 .00
Armor Factor: 217 pts Ferro-Fibrous 7 11.50
(Armor Crit Loc: 5 RT, 1 CT, 1 RL)
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 22 33
Center Torso (Rear): 11
L/R Side Torso: 15 22/22
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 8/8
L/R Arm: 11 22/22
L/R Leg: 15 30/30
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 LB 20-X AC RA 6 20 13 16.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 LA, 1 RA, 1 LT, 1 RT)
1 LB 20-X AC LA 6 9 12.00
1 LB 10-X AC LT 2 10 6 11.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 LT)
1 ER Small Laser HD 2 1 .50
1 Flamer CT 3 1 .50
1 ECM Suite RT 0 1 1.00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 19 76 70.00
Crits & Tons Left: 2 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 19,618,886 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,702
Cost per BV: 11,526.96
Weapon Value: 2,499 / 2,499 (Ratio = 1.47 / 1.47)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 46; MRDmg = 20; LRDmg = 2
BattleForce2: MP: 4, Armor/Structure: 5/4
Damage PB/M/L: 7/6/1, Overheat: 0
Class: MH; Point Value: 17
Specials: omni, ecm
Let me know what you think. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated since I am still fairly new to designing 'Mechs.
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"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
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Cray
General
Reged: 07/27/01
Posts: 4147
Loc: North America
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Re: Jackal PRIME
#49355 - 02/04/03 02:20 PM (65.32.253.120)
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Wow, that's anti-vehicle beast. Such a crit finder. Can you get in an SRM 2 with inferno ammo?
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Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Nightward
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 05/09/01
Posts: 1701
Loc: Queensland, Australia.
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Re: Jackal PRIME
#49356 - 02/04/03 02:20 PM (210.50.56.27)
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Unfortunately, there is already a Jackal, a 30-tonner that goes 7/11 and has an ER PPC.
But there are no Hyenas yet...
The only thing I would suggest is switching down to LB-10Xs and upgrading the engine. LB-20Xs are nice, but moving at 4/6 an with a 12-hex maximum range, the 'Mech would only be of use in a cramped city or guarding an installation from AeroSpace fighters. The next is an incredibly picky point, but when I build 'Mechs I tend to give them 7/10/7 rear armour. This is because they can surivive Clan ER Medium Laser hits to the sides and a Large hit to the centre torso, which is about all you need. Then you can have slightly heavier armour on the front.
That all said....ouch. And more ouch. I can imagine this thing in combat: "OK. I it with both of my LBs and all of the clusters hit as well. Let's just sit here for the next hour and a half rolling hit locations."
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Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Cray
General
Reged: 07/27/01
Posts: 4147
Loc: North America
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Re: Jackal PRIME
#49358 - 02/04/03 02:21 PM (65.32.253.120)
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Yeah, and there's 2 Scorpions and 3 Behemoths.
Reuse the Jackal name. This is a Clan mech, not an IS mech like the current Jackal, right?
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Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
General
Reged: 04/21/01
Posts: 6412
Loc: Ft. Hood TX (Killeen)
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Re: Jackal PRIME
#49384 - 02/04/03 04:20 PM (68.21.149.219)
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And there is enough confusion already over how many times the names are used...so it's better to avoid that and come up with a different name.
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Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Apoc
Private
Reged: 04/02/02
Posts: 95
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Re: Jackal PRIME
#49420 - 02/04/03 08:25 PM (67.224.53.127)
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Just add a discriptive word to it Jackal:
Spirit Jackal
Battle Jackal
Jackal Fang
Plaid Rainbow with Polka Dots Jackal 
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Karagin
General
Reged: 04/21/01
Posts: 6412
Loc: Ft. Hood TX (Killeen)
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Re: Jackal PRIME
#49421 - 02/04/03 08:30 PM (68.21.149.129)
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Good idea, thus it's NOT the same as the Inner Sphere Jackal and the confusion goes away... 
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Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Vapor
Lieutenant
Reged: 11/15/02
Posts: 699
Loc: Guam
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Re: Jackal PRIME
#49472 - 02/05/03 01:11 AM (202.128.73.148)
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I already posted an updated design on the HMP forums, and renamed it to Black Rhino. When I get a chance, I'll post the updated design here, as well.
--------------------
"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
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Optimus_Prime
Sergeant Major
Reged: 09/25/02
Posts: 366
Loc: Ashland, Wisconsin, US
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Re: Jackal PRIME
#49473 - 02/05/03 01:18 AM (207.14.78.100)
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lol wanna know my first mech........*starts' to think*ummm maybe latter (all im gona tell is that its a LAM ) but yeah this would be impressive urban fighter. lol to bad I dont have the board game  .
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http://2845.mechnex.net
The Cybrids are coming, will you be ready?
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Vapor
Lieutenant
Reged: 11/15/02
Posts: 699
Loc: Guam
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Black Rhino PRIME
#49475 - 02/05/03 01:29 AM (202.128.73.148)
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Here's the updated design...
code:
BattleMech Technical Readout
Type/Model: Black Rhino PRIME
Tech: Clan / 3058
Config: Biped OmniMech
Rules: Level 2, Custom design
Mass: 70 tons
Chassis: Endo Steel
Power Plant: 280 XL Fusion
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor Type: Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
2 LB 20-X ACs
1 ECM Suite
1 Flamer
1 LB 10-X AC
1 ER Small Laser
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System: (Unknown)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
==Overview:==
Designed with the intention of being a city fighter, this 'Mech has an
incredible amount of firepower to bring to bear on it's opponents. It's range
is quite limited, however, but in the urban environment where ranges are
typically shorter, that shouldn't be much of a problem, and it's ECM suite
enables it to close with it's enemies undetected.
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Black Rhino PRIME
Mass: 70 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 107 pts Endo Steel 7 3.50
(Endo Steel Loc: 2 LT, 2 RT, 1 CT, 1 LL, 1 RL)
Engine: 280 XL Fusion 10 8.00
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 10 Double [20] 0 .00
Gyro: 4 3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA R: Sh+UA 12 .00
Armor Factor: 217 pts Ferro-Fibrous 7 11.50
(Armor Crit Loc: 1 LT, 3 RT, 1 CT, 1 LL, 1 RL)
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 22 33
Center Torso (Rear): 11
L/R Side Torso: 15 22/22
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 8/8
L/R Arm: 11 22/22
L/R Leg: 15 30/30
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 LB 20-X AC RA 6 20 13 16.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 LA, 1 RA, 1 LT, 1 RT)
1 LB 20-X AC LA 6 9 12.00
1 ECM Suite RT 0 1 1.00
1 Flamer RT 3 1 .50
1 LB 10-X AC LT 2 10 6 11.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 LT)
1 ER Small Laser HD 2 1 .50
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 19 76 70.00
Crits & Tons Left: 2 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 19,618,886 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,702
Cost per BV: 11,526.96
Weapon Value: 2,499 / 2,499 (Ratio = 1.47 / 1.47)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 46; MRDmg = 20; LRDmg = 2
BattleForce2: MP: 4, Armor/Structure: 5/4
Damage PB/M/L: 7/6/1, Overheat: 0
Class: MH; Point Value: 17
Specials: omni, ecm
--------------------
"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
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Optimus_Prime
Sergeant Major
Reged: 09/25/02
Posts: 366
Loc: Ashland, Wisconsin, US
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Re: Black Rhino PRIME
#49476 - 02/05/03 01:33 AM (207.14.78.100)
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Nice fluff. geuss i have a weird mind when it comes to fluff 
--------------------
http://2845.mechnex.net
The Cybrids are coming, will you be ready?
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Cray
General
Reged: 07/27/01
Posts: 4147
Loc: North America
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Re: Jackal PRIME
#49479 - 02/05/03 02:25 AM (65.32.253.120)
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Who gets confused over the Scorpion/Scorpion now?
--------------------
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Vapor
Lieutenant
Reged: 11/15/02
Posts: 699
Loc: Guam
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Re: Black Rhino PRIME
#49491 - 02/05/03 06:45 AM (202.123.140.245)
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That fluff text is by no means complete. lol That is just what I threw together in a few minutes (after someone on the HMP forums complained about the lack of fluff ). I will be putting more in there when I get a chance to think some stuff up.
--------------------
"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
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Karagin
General
Reged: 04/21/01
Posts: 6412
Loc: Ft. Hood TX (Killeen)
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Re: Jackal PRIME
#49500 - 02/05/03 07:50 AM (68.21.149.210)
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Cray, it happens mainly with new folks, seen it happen at cons where vehicles are used and some one new asks if the Scorpion being used is a mech and then when told no it's a tank they have the confused look of why have the same name etc...
It happens a lot with Behemoth, since there is two mechs with that name, a tank and a dropship, so it is a good idea to try to avoid reusing the FASA/FP/WK names.
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Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
General
Reged: 07/27/01
Posts: 4147
Loc: North America
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Re: Jackal PRIME
#49510 - 02/05/03 09:22 AM (65.32.253.120)
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I guess I credit BT players with more intelligence. It takes a few words ("No, my home brewed Jackal," "No, the Scorpion tank," etc.) to clear up the confusion, which shouldn't be game-wrecking confusion in any case.
The few games that do get wrecked by confused names should be so rare that I'm not going to change a cool name for their benefit, especially a custom built design that cannot be used in any formal game.
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Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
General
Reged: 04/21/01
Posts: 6412
Loc: Ft. Hood TX (Killeen)
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Re: Jackal PRIME
#49529 - 02/05/03 10:59 AM (68.21.149.55)
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What formal game other then an offical tourement can a custom NOT be used in? I have never seen that happen...pregen scenarios have everything from offical mechs to home/custom ones in them and get run at cons all the time.
And there is confusion enough. BY not reusing offical names we cut down on the confusion and show some originality instead of copying.
You once said that you wouldn't use a name on your stuff if is was offical, I am refering to our chat over your use of the name Shintoto Chi-Ha for a tank and I had used the same name for a mech...you said if it was an offical name of a mech then you would change it, now why the change in thinking on this issue?
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Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Nightward
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 05/09/01
Posts: 1701
Loc: Queensland, Australia.
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Re: Jackal PRIME
#49587 - 02/05/03 02:16 PM (202.138.17.232)
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You did read his post, right? Vapour wanted to know if there was already a 'Mech called the Jackal...
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Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Karagin
General
Reged: 04/21/01
Posts: 6412
Loc: Ft. Hood TX (Killeen)
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Re: Jackal PRIME
#49609 - 02/05/03 02:46 PM (68.21.149.16)
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Yes I read it and Yes I know he got told there was a mech with that name already, he was told the same thing on the HMPro Site as well.
Thus the point still stands...
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Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
General
Reged: 07/27/01
Posts: 4147
Loc: North America
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Re: Jackal PRIME
#49610 - 02/05/03 02:49 PM (65.32.253.120)
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It ain't copying if you came up with the name independently, unaware of the canon one.
Sorry. I'm not going to go through the trouble of renaming my designs to "avoid confusion" when next to no one is going to actually use them no matter their name, nor am I going to recommend anyone else change their designs' names just to avoid overlaps for the same reason.
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Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
General
Reged: 04/21/01
Posts: 6412
Loc: Ft. Hood TX (Killeen)
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Re: Jackal PRIME
#49613 - 02/05/03 02:56 PM (68.21.149.16)
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Glad to see you changed your postion.
But seeing how others have and will point this out, it might be best to avoid such a thing and given that most player if not all should have a working knowledge of the mechs names one can't really see how this keeps comming up...
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Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Vapor
Lieutenant
Reged: 11/15/02
Posts: 699
Loc: Guam
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Re: Jackal PRIME
#49720 - 02/06/03 01:32 AM (202.128.71.212)
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In reply to:
given that most player if not all should have a working knowledge of the mechs names one can't really see how this keeps comming up
I won't appologize for my lack of knowledge, but I will explain why I had to ask. Currently, the only 'Mechs I am familiar with are those found in the RS: 3050, and the more well-used ones that occur in the novels. I haven't had the opportunity to expand my knowledge until just recently and I'm currently trying to take up the slack. I can guarantee that there was a point in time where you didn't know if there was a Jackal 'Mech or not. (I did change the name, btw)
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"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
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Karagin
General
Reged: 04/21/01
Posts: 6412
Loc: Ft. Hood TX (Killeen)
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Re: Jackal PRIME
#49752 - 02/06/03 07:20 AM (68.21.149.21)
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You are correct, before TR3055 came out I didn't know they had a mech called a Jackal and yes I had a home made mech with the name, then I too changed it to avoid confusion. 
Besides Black Rhino sounds much better for this mech.
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Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Vapor
Lieutenant
Reged: 11/15/02
Posts: 699
Loc: Guam
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Re: Jackal PRIME
#49862 - 02/06/03 05:51 PM (202.123.138.44)
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Well, my original thought behind using Jackal as the name was that jackals hunt in packs, and I never intended for this design to be used alone. It does need quite a bit of long-range support, after all.
Black Rhinos, on the other hand, tend to be more solitary, though much bigger and stronger.
--------------------
"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
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Karagin
General
Reged: 04/21/01
Posts: 6412
Loc: Ft. Hood TX (Killeen)
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Re: Jackal PRIME
#49871 - 02/06/03 08:04 PM (68.21.149.129)
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Hyenas do the same thing as do Dingos and other cannies...:D
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Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Vapor
Lieutenant
Reged: 11/15/02
Posts: 699
Loc: Guam
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Re: Jackal PRIME
#49873 - 02/06/03 08:31 PM (202.123.138.10)
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That's true, but Hyenas are notorious cowards, and somehow Dingo doesn't quite sound like a 'Mech's name.
*Edit* One thing I forgot to mention in my previous post, is that Black Rhinos have a very short temper.
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"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
Edited by Vapor (02/06/03 08:37 PM)
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Karagin
General
Reged: 04/21/01
Posts: 6412
Loc: Ft. Hood TX (Killeen)
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Re: Jackal PRIME
#49874 - 02/06/03 08:41 PM (68.21.149.129)
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Don't most Rhinos have a short temper? Though that one bird that sits on their backs helping them keep the flies off has it made.
Dingo has that cool ring to it, I have a couple of light Armored Cars with that name, which I modeled off the WW2 Brits armored car.
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Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Toastrider
Private
Reged: 09/09/02
Posts: 88
Loc: Sweet Home Alabama!
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Re: Jackal PRIME
#49877 - 02/06/03 09:08 PM (172.162.147.54)
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I've used historical figures from warfare for Mech names sometimes; I've got designs named the John Colt, the Audie Murphy, and the Rodger Young.
Then there's my current crop of celebrities: Advocate, Atlatl, Emancipator, Hellstorm, Hailstorm, Maverick, Oblivion, Poltergeist, Sandman, Shortbow, Tancho, and Tombstone.
It just takes a little patience to come up with a catchy name
--Toasty
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"The survivors, not the victors, write the history books."
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Karagin
General
Reged: 04/21/01
Posts: 6412
Loc: Ft. Hood TX (Killeen)
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Re: Jackal PRIME
#49883 - 02/06/03 10:21 PM (68.21.149.55)
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Some of your other names I too have used for different units in BT...ships, mechs, vehieles et...
Yes a little patience and a little creativtie is a good mix to get some new and different names.
--------------------
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Vapor
Lieutenant
Reged: 11/15/02
Posts: 699
Loc: Guam
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Re: Jackal PRIME
#49896 - 02/06/03 11:38 PM (202.128.69.122)
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Actually, the White Rhino is generally very sedate. It takes a lot to get one upset (though don't try getting anywhere near a baby ).
Dingo would be an excellent name for an armored car. I just can't see the name fitting a 'Mech, though. lol
--------------------
"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
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TJHairball
Recruit
Reged: 02/06/03
Posts: 40
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Re: Jackal PRIME
#49901 - 02/07/03 12:05 AM (152.10.182.229)
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White rhinos are much more even tempered.
Although I wouldn't recommend trying to PO one anyway.
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