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Krait
Lieutenant Colonel

Reged: 06/22/02
Posts: 1639
Loc: Krautland

new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#61208 - 05/21/03 03:31 PM (172.177.32.240)

Well since they saw fit to delete my eloquent and sensible nevmail, I will take it to the forums, but lose my edge and be blunt:

The new mechprices suck.

And they were never ever discussed in the #Giants chatroom. There was no warning whatsoever so don't blame us.

Lata
Krait

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Aciddog
Lieutenant

Reged: 12/07/02
Posts: 693

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#61209 - 05/21/03 03:38 PM (12.82.73.10)

They do suck their was no reason for a 75% to 100% increase in mech prices. A 25-50% increase would be understandable.

Hopefully they will drop it a little or at least let us salvage the dang mechs not just some parts of them.

Edited by Aciddog (05/21/03 03:41 PM)

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Krait
Lieutenant Colonel

Reged: 06/22/02
Posts: 1639
Loc: Krautland

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#61212 - 05/21/03 03:44 PM (172.177.32.240)

Well they make sense and are understandable to me because they balance the current and future game better...

But they still suck, because the past game is still in existance also, and what was gotten in the past just doubled in value...

Thats the core problem of improving a no-reset game I guess.
I still prefer this over resets every month, but I am prolly biased since I am old school.

Lata
Krait

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Aciddog
Lieutenant

Reged: 12/07/02
Posts: 693

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#61213 - 05/21/03 03:49 PM (12.82.73.10)

I understand it too. Thats why i said let us salvage mechs.

I also prefer this over a reset as that is a portion of why i also play nev.

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Krynn
Major

Reged: 01/31/03
Posts: 1327

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#61215 - 05/21/03 04:11 PM (24.164.25.57)

I fully agree we need real salvage, the main old reason we didn't I was told is meachs are cheap, well now their not.

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All I can say is www.neveron.de

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Neveron_Liason
Lieutenant

Reged: 03/03/03
Posts: 414
Loc: 1 Neveron Way, Neveron City, N...

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#61222 - 05/21/03 05:05 PM (63.226.215.179)

Mechs are supposed to be rare, and valuable. Currently this is not true in Neveron. This is a step in that direction.

The true reason mech prices were adjusted was to bring mech prices in line with the cost to manufacture mechs. Basically, the NASI prices were artifically low. In time, years maybe, but in time, when people had researched many of the mechs, mech prices would probably be exceeding 'old' prices by huge margins in any case. In which case dueling would be screwed over. However, by VASTLY (250%) increasing prizes along with the (mere 200%) mech prices, dueling continues to be viable.

Additionally- The plan has always been for mech production to shift to players. If mech producers simply could not compete with NASI< there would be very little impetus to research and manufacture mechs. This would remove some of the 'ultimate' point of the game for large empires.

As for new mech prices: It is not like empires cannot still afford mechs. This will help 'scale up' mechs as well- what I mean by that is that there's less probability of small empires with high-quality battlemechs running roughshod over their colleagues.

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Official Comments.

Randy> that was naturally occurring lag

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Wraith
Major

Reged: 03/17/03
Posts: 1238
Loc: Wichita, KS, USA

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#61226 - 05/21/03 05:14 PM (129.101.53.203)

Just have to point out that earlier this morning the arena prizes got reduced, looks like they're 175% of the old prizes, not even the same inflation as the mech prices

-Wraith

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-Wraith

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jaggeh
Lieutenant

Reged: 07/03/02
Posts: 549
Loc: ireland dublin

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#61230 - 05/21/03 06:09 PM (159.134.137.77)

saying that even small empires will be able to afford mechs is ludicrous, even with my 2 year old empire, although its only level 5 atm due to continuos beat downs is still only able to attain 93 million in a real month. and thats if i dont do any research or training.

i had started saving to buy another medium mech, but now im gonna have to wait another 3-4weeks of NOT playing the game to do anything.

im not a noob and im not a giant, but i have been playing a long time and this feels like a betrayal, and a "force the issue" towards donation as thats my empires only viable option of expanding my military. i have donated in the past and will in the future but i dont like not having a choice.

Donate or die tbh

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Goodbye neveron, i refuse to stand by and watch a game i love enough to play for 6
years be ruined by idiotic ideas. id rather leave and have good memories.

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Neveron_Liason
Lieutenant

Reged: 03/03/03
Posts: 414
Loc: 1 Neveron Way, Neveron City, N...

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#61231 - 05/21/03 06:09 PM (4.41.52.189)

Prizes were bugged.

But so were entrance fees and creation fees, and those went down a lot, relative to prize-cash.

Donation is not necessary to build up. Here's a fact for all the conspiracy-theorists out there...

Randy and Wayward expect this to reduce donations, not increase them. Most donations are done by small empires directly for nevcash. Since small empires can now earn more without donating, they expect donations by this segment to drop.

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Official Comments.

Randy> that was naturally occurring lag

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crusader523
Sergeant

Reged: 01/27/03
Posts: 398

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#61233 - 05/21/03 06:27 PM (67.8.16.221)

the prize still dont pay for the cost of mech replacement and pilot trainning at a 50%win lose ratio

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Neveron_Liason
Lieutenant

Reged: 03/03/03
Posts: 414
Loc: 1 Neveron Way, Neveron City, N...

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#61234 - 05/21/03 06:43 PM (4.41.52.189)

Let's take, for an example, the CN9-A Centurion.

Here are it's arena creation stats. Note the Force Value, compared to the current NASI price of $54 million.

Force Value $ 69,830,020
Creation Cost $ 26,186,259
Estimated Prize $ 144,024,418

Say you win one duel, and lose another, having created both arenas and with the same money percentage each time. You won $144 million. Your total creation cost is about $52 million. You need about $54 million replace the mech, or, going with force value, $69 million dollars.

This provides a net of (144- (52+69)) or $50 million dollars with pessimistic numbers. You can easily train a mech-pilot with a pittance of that.

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Official Comments.

Randy> that was naturally occurring lag

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Bloodhawk
Recruit

Reged: 01/31/03
Posts: 45

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#61237 - 05/21/03 07:01 PM (24.66.94.140)

Why did they increase arena prizes and mechs prices, its a little pointless since you win more money now but it costs more to get somthing. And they say that there the biggest supporters of LW, well people are going to be to scared to lose their mechs so this will not help LW.

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Maghetti
Sergeant

Reged: 11/16/02
Posts: 222

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#61238 - 05/21/03 07:57 PM (66.11.99.18)

I think that this is the worst move that they have done yet.Maghetti out

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Was the leader of WoM,Word of Maghetti

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Manowar
Recruit

Reged: 06/29/02
Posts: 40

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#61249 - 05/21/03 10:35 PM (68.1.196.167)

Exactly, this is the exact opposite kind of action one would take if they wanted to increase fighting, which they've said they do. Maybe they've changed their goals, I don't know. If they still want to increase the fighting, they should have reduced the maintainance costs on mines, thereby reducing the cost of the inputs into products and devaluing them further. That would have brought NASI's selling prices in line with mech construction costs. Honestly, the maintainance costs on the mines seem WAY too high. I don't see how you can have a viable economy when virtually no one can afford the costs of inputs for everything produced.

Make weapons of war less expensive, provide additional avenues for using those materials (so they can be profitably expended) like in the arenas and other possibilities like Tournies that are actually coded into the game (and going on all the time), slowing down LW, making defending possible, and virtually impossible to have an empire overran in two hours. (create a landwar system where the fighting could go on for years.. like wars often do, in real life and in battletech). etc. This would accomplish more fighting, and probably more donating.

But who knows if more fighting is what they still want. I just know that as an empire that doesn't get a subsidy, my income stayed the same and the prices for mechs doubled. That doesn't encourage me to risk mechs in LW.

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Wraith
Major

Reged: 03/17/03
Posts: 1238
Loc: Wichita, KS, USA

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#61250 - 05/21/03 10:36 PM (172.196.202.74)

Ummm... looking at your equation, seems that the profit is only 23 million... but still, thanks for the breakdown, things don't seem quite so abyssmal!

-Wraith

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-Wraith

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Manowar
Recruit

Reged: 06/29/02
Posts: 40

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#61251 - 05/21/03 10:44 PM (68.1.196.167)

As an addition to what I said, I realize there is "overproduction", thats why I suggested more avenues for using the material. I think part of the problem is that its too hard to produce the things everyone wants and uses (mechs), and much easier to produce the things only smaller empires rely on (vehicles). If mech construction was more obtainable, and more of the "larger" empires could build mechs, then they wouldn't be flooding the market with vehicles, they'd be building mechs. The middle range empires would be building vehicles (in smaller numbers cause they're capacity is smaller than a large empire) and the large empires would be building mechs (in smaller numbers cause it just takes more resources/industrial capacity to build a mech than a vehicle). And the smaller empires could be building spare parts (they don't have the research or industrial capacity to build vehicles or mechs). Thats a viable economy.

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Neveron_Liason
Lieutenant

Reged: 03/03/03
Posts: 414
Loc: 1 Neveron Way, Neveron City, N...

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#61253 - 05/21/03 10:53 PM (4.41.52.189)

My boo-boo. heh. Yes, the profit is only $23 million using the "Force Value".

Smaller empires are definitely not the only ones that rely on vehicles. The primary defense for empires of ALL sizes is vehicles.

Mechs are offensive tools, mainly.

As for defense. People cite offensive landwar as easy because the VAST MAJORITY of empires on Neveron rely on totally inadequate defenses. Defenses that should be utilized include:

Stallers covering most zones. Stealth towers generally work the best.
A good faction that can note attacks and either pilot for your empire or launch counterstrikes.
Defensive towers and vehicle formations. Also, they need to be *trained*! and not to six gun, either.

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Official Comments.

Randy> that was naturally occurring lag

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Khan_E_F
Captain

Reged: 05/18/03
Posts: 865

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#61260 - 05/21/03 11:28 PM (203.56.233.9)

Agreed, behemoths certainly make a very good defensive mobile turret, and when placed in the right hexs, they are brutally efficient at defense. But a mechs speed could possibly always out-move a vehicle in assault missions. I agree with the changes but I do suggest that mechs should get more advatages over the vehicles.

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Glory To The Clans!

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Krait
Lieutenant Colonel

Reged: 06/22/02
Posts: 1639
Loc: Krautland

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#61275 - 05/22/03 12:43 AM (172.179.175.144)

More advantages for Mechs over Vecs?

That would require the removal of heads.... The only advantage that vecs have over mechs is that they have no head

And besides, I think this change is not about encouraging/discouraging combat. Its about balance. And in that light it is a good change. Problem is if people got candy they shouldnt have gotten for a long time, and you take it away all of a sudden to set things straight, they will complain. And you can't really blame them...

Lata
Krait

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a20089
Sergeant Major

Reged: 06/22/02
Posts: 256

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#61276 - 05/22/03 12:45 AM (203.123.64.150)

Bitch Bith Bitch

Now if Randy just told me prices were going up I would have helped clear the market for him.

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staker
Lieutenant

Reged: 09/25/02
Posts: 413
Loc: Haifa, Israel

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#61281 - 05/22/03 01:04 AM (128.139.197.27)

And if you Attacked both arenas, it would be near zero.

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There is no spoon.

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Neveron_Liason
Lieutenant

Reged: 03/03/03
Posts: 414
Loc: 1 Neveron Way, Neveron City, N...

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#61282 - 05/22/03 01:10 AM (4.41.52.189)

On average, you would only attack one of the arenas. For the sake of argument, I assumed you defended both arenas, since I would have to create an arena and test attack price to get that number. And I prefer not to get a mech smashed up by someone just because I am checking numbers. Heh.

Also, the ACTUAL cost of a CN9-A is about $15 million less than the force cost.... so you can work that in there if you wish.

50% wins is a modest profit...not something spectacular.

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Official Comments.

Randy> that was naturally occurring lag

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Khan_E_F
Captain

Reged: 05/18/03
Posts: 865

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#61293 - 05/22/03 03:13 AM (131.181.127.33)

The head? what about heat problems? AI doesn't care about your mech if your attacked. It can keep firing until you shutdown from overheating! Vehicles don't have that problem. Thus while your in your mech waiting to cool down, a behemoth can just keep firing at you non-stop!

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Glory To The Clans!

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Krait
Lieutenant Colonel

Reged: 06/22/02
Posts: 1639
Loc: Krautland

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#61310 - 05/22/03 06:19 AM (172.179.175.144)

Heat is only a problem for mechs when the pilot sucks

Mechs have more than enough advantages over Vecs as stated in anotgher thread. If they had to mount heatsinks for every point of heat they generate beyond 10 (like vecs have to at least for energy weapons), they would be worse instead of better because of highly reduced felxibility.

The no-heat generation of ammo-weapons for vecs is a nice advantage, but more than offset by all the disadvantages...

Lata
Krait

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crusader523
Sergeant

Reged: 01/27/03
Posts: 398

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#61312 - 05/22/03 07:45 AM (67.8.16.221)

in a arena fight between vehicles alot of times it come down to who crits how first and in LW with vehicles a couple of vec crits can change the tide of battle

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Neveron_Liason
Lieutenant

Reged: 03/03/03
Posts: 414
Loc: 1 Neveron Way, Neveron City, N...

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#61314 - 05/22/03 08:31 AM (4.41.52.189)

Minor note: AI does heat management now. Generally, an AI mech wont overheat or explode unless the heatsinks and engine are severly damaged.

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Official Comments.

Randy> that was naturally occurring lag

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Michaelius
Corporal

Reged: 10/01/02
Posts: 104

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#61317 - 05/22/03 09:26 AM (62.121.108.144)

At least prices are returning to more resonable level.
And they were increased to make producing mechs profitable

Now I checked mech market and suddenly urbies are at 30 milions each

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TRK
Sergeant Major

Reged: 11/05/02
Posts: 254

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#61346 - 05/22/03 01:46 PM (208.38.12.170)

There is no logic whatsoever to this decision. If there is it is only in Randys head. Any market that instantly doubles overnight is completely ludicrous.

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KnightofNi
Private

Reged: 01/19/03
Posts: 85
Loc: Minnesota

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#62745 - 06/04/03 12:08 PM (140.209.105.239)

Now the repercussions of this decision are coming about. The mech market at current can only be described as flooded. Many lesser-used mechs have become non-used mechs because of the price hike. Mechs that were previously expensive have become ludicrous and now stagnate in the marketplace. Light mechs that smaller empires snapped up also sit unused because the cost has gone well out of their price range. Randy wanted to make mechs rarer, and I suppose he got it. But isn't much of the fun of BTech games taking a mech around and making things explode? It's part of what attracted me to the game. But now I'm not as enticed. I guess I'll have to blow things up with my little vehicles then

.

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You can fool some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time - but most of the time they will make fools of themselves. - Voltaire

We are the keepers of the sacred words: 'Ni', 'Peng', and 'Neee-wom'!

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Fiache
Corporal

Reged: 12/03/02
Posts: 130
Loc: Hawaii

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#62746 - 06/04/03 01:27 PM (192.156.67.34)

In reply to:

This will help 'scale up' mechs as well- what I mean by that is that there's less probability of small empires with high-quality battlemechs running roughshod over their colleagues.

This is categoricly untrue. What you should really say is "There is less probability of small empires, that do not donate, being able to run...". Because lets face it. If I want to really cause a lot of hate and discontent, I create a new empire, donate a bunch of money (for Mechs and Skill Downs) and go cut a merry swath thru Neveron. And don't tell me its not done, because I've seen it happen and or implemented same myself. Level 0 to Level 4, lopsided BV:Pop Ratio, Assault Mechs x/2 or better. What do I care I can't pay maintenance costs. I'm just going to hit some poor schmow anyway and go out in a blaze of glory. Get hit a couple times by these suicide style empires can wear down even the most prepared empires.

Basicly at this time the Mech Prices force a Donate or DIE attitude, since everyone has mechs -- and according to Randy far too many mechs at that. So plenty of old timer empires with mechs, and a very few empires can afford more mechs. So those with mechs march over those with out. And those without have to resort to Vehicles that one shot crit die. OR donate. Enough said.

Fiache.

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pepsi
Private

Reged: 05/20/03
Posts: 39

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#62765 - 06/04/03 04:09 PM (66.189.193.130)

I posted in the suggestion area (I wa new to the forum and kinda tweaked out over the price increases iddn't realize about the b*tching area)

Well as always a good nap and caffiene make your thought processes work so much better. I figured it out (and I'm shocked it took me this long). All that has been done is a huge depression has set as the many land wars end (sort of right..) and so with the war industries off line there are less workers. So neveron world government decided to put more money out on the streets causing-- yep we knew it was coming-- INFLATION! yaaa...wait..that's bad..but why is my commerce not affected? hmm odd depression. And, no matter what they say, the little guys only fall farther and farther behind.

A good example is the arena situation. Okay if costs are increased then it costs more to get into the battle and more to host an arena. Simple stuff. but if I make money at a smaller rate increase, because of the empire subsidy raising 100k (or in laymens terms 140%) compared to the rising costs of mech which go up 100% then I fall further and further behind. And also, vehicles had their pricing modifiers altered, though not nearly as much. This leaves infantry which when you come down to it are not a very different in each type of infantry on infatry fight. Big empires? well they have lots of money they make (compared to my infastructure building level 4). Okay they can't buy a mech every other real day any more just every third real day... man gotta suck only making that much money...

Perhaps they forgot if the price of a mech goes 2xhigher(100millionx2= 200million) then I have to make 2x as much money in a period of time to be able to purchase the mech. And the 100k increase for the subsidy only helps me makes 1.4x as much money. So my now 300k lets me buy a mech in666 nev days or 67 real days as compared to the once 500 nev days or 50 real days. Maybe my math is wrong but it now takes me 1.3x as long to purchase a mech and even longer for a smaller empire. This helps smaller empires get mechs quicker..how...?

here is the offical line from the "upates" section:

In reply to:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First, mechs remain just as affordable to small empires as before the other changes made today. Secondly, it will be possible for smaller empires to build much more quickly and get to the more exciting higher levels. Thirdly, the higher amounts of available cash for small empires make dueling and warring more accessible as a loss is a much smaller setback than before

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

like I said unless my math is wrong then the price is not as affordable as it was before for smaller empires in relation to buying mechs

build more quickly? maybe the cost for a 25 cf 4 level w/ basement residential is 156,250k. I can build an extra one every 1.5556 nev days or so. A commercial at the same criteria is 696,250. so I can build an extra one for every 7 nev days. That's cool I'll grant them that.

Dueling and land war. Well land war prices stay constant so there is nothing wrong with that. But if I put things into the arena and win at a 80/20 split after all the expenses I'm still at the same profit margin. Not to helpful there. And, if I lose something that costs lots of money I am making money at a slower rate with which to replace it. This is turn means that I am actually risking and losing more in an arena then I was before.

I will admit the new policy is consistent--consistent in it's fallicies and half thought out ideas. I don't fault the idea I just wish that more long term thought had gone into it. In fact I love the idea of the inflation. but everything needs to be taken care of in equal terms like it is explained or change the explanation to fit the reality of it.

By The Way: sorry if this seemed a little harsh. I probably shouldn't be making such critical attacks of a game that I like and that I would never be able to build and run like it is now. Kudos! but I'm just a frustrated player.

~Pepsi~

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Aut Mors Aut Victoria.

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Aciddog
Lieutenant

Reged: 12/07/02
Posts: 693

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#62776 - 06/04/03 05:12 PM (12.82.65.69)

In reply to:

So my now 300k lets me buy a mech in 666 nev days or 67 real days as compared to the once 500 nev days or 50 real days

I know iv seen this in another post and ill post the same thing i did then. You dont need 67x 3 milion to buy a mech which is about 200 million a 60 mil pheonix hawk is good and can kill hundreds of units.

Not every small empire lv 1-4 needs to have a assualt mech.

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Colonel_Olorin
Sergeant

Reged: 11/30/02
Posts: 306

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#62790 - 06/05/03 02:05 AM (211.28.96.39)

hell a lvl 1 doesn't really need any mech's but ibet all lvl1's would love to have their entire bv taken by mech's rather then MG jeeps

when it comes down to it nobody really needs assualt mech's but hell we all want em don't we lol

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"if ya happy and ya know it give me beer"

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Tigre
Lieutenant Colonel

Reged: 02/10/03
Posts: 1833
Loc: Atlanta, GA

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#62794 - 06/05/03 04:27 AM (12.47.79.2)

Or as Chet put it on chat yesterday:

"I love it, I can buy any mech I want, I just dropped $3.5 billion on mechs, and the market is still full"

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- Tigre

Ipsa Scientia Potestas Est
- Francis Bacon

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Yossarian
Private

Reged: 06/22/02
Posts: 55
Loc: Cape Canaveral, FL

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#62799 - 06/05/03 05:30 AM (205.139.152.2)

In reply to:

Mechs are supposed to be rare, and valuable. Currently this is not true in Neveron. This is a step in that direction.

Reword this to say "Mechs are supposed to be fun. Currently there is no fun in Neveron." and its the only thing in this post that is correct.

In reply to:

The true reason mech prices were adjusted was to bring mech prices in line with the cost to manufacture mechs.

Then fix the #&$%#!% production prices!!! This is like cutting off your leg cause you have a hangnail. Sure it solves the hangnail problem, but don't you think losing your entire leg was a little drastic?

In reply to:

Additionally- The plan has always been for mech production to shift to players. If mech producers simply could not compete with NASI< there would be very little impetus to research and manufacture mechs. This would remove some of the 'ultimate' point of the game for large empires.

Bah... production is shifting to A player (singular), and even they aren't going to be able to build anything meaningful for a LOOOOONG time. I rank #17 in research on neveron, and I can't get anywhere at all past some medium wheeled vehicles. 10K RP into this empire in 2 years (and that is a LOT), and I haven't even completed enough research to build a light mech cockpit... total. Mechs aren't even a top ten players thing... more like a top 3 players. Genyosha, MMM, and CFB are the only ones with legitimate shots.

You know you've really screwed something up when even MMM doesn't bother.

In reply to:

As for new mech prices: It is not like empires cannot still afford mechs. This will help 'scale up' mechs as well- what I mean by that is that there's less probability of small empires with high-quality battlemechs running roughshod over their colleagues.

This is the WORST statement in here. It is completely and utterly wrong.

Problem is, its exactly how Randy feels on it.

Raising the prices for everyone does not change the balance AT ALL. If most small empires before did not have a lance of assaults, then they still won't now. The players that want those mechs will get them.

If small empires were getting run over by assault mechs before, then it was their fault for not getting any off the market. If their neighbors got them, good for them and bravo for saving for that long.

All this really does is broaden the gap between DP and non-DP empires. There was already a big gap, now it is a Grand Canyon size chasm. $100 in DP garuntees that you are now the most badass empire in your neighborhood. No DP garuntees that you're going to own about 30 light and medium vehicles at level 5 and you will get rolled by anyone who even spends $25 on a single MAD.

Why don't you guys just get it over with and set up a mandatory $50 payment to start an empire? Get rid of the pretense that there is any "free" left to this game.

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hmm... I sleep a lot a better with a level 0 instead of my level 11.

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Yossarian
Private

Reged: 06/22/02
Posts: 55
Loc: Cape Canaveral, FL

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#62800 - 06/05/03 05:35 AM (205.139.152.2)

Is this a joke? Are you just an arena newbie hunter hoping that all these guys will start putting Centurions into fights?

CENTURIONS SUCK. Period. End of sentence. Period.

There is a reason they're cheap, nobody wants them. And if any of these poor guys start dueling them they are going to get bent over and reamed repeatedly by the bigger guys with mech stables. This does NOT solve your argument. Try doing it with something that actually wins and is popular.

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hmm... I sleep a lot a better with a level 0 instead of my level 11.

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Fusilier
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Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#62804 - 06/05/03 06:22 AM (217.82.235.224)

Me standing up and clapping hands.....

Yossarian for President!!

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ChalengerII
Sergeant Major

Reged: 06/22/02
Posts: 271

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#62832 - 06/05/03 12:23 PM (80.5.202.77)

Happen to agree with Yossarian on everything but the Centurians suck comment but thats another story

Anyway quick bit of though if these changes make mechs no less afordable then why has my level 5 got no added income and has much less ability to get mechs.

BTW anyone think we should force Randy to come out of hiding and face the music. Keeping all this annoyance at him bottled up is not fun much better when I could make sure he understands why I'm pissed at him

Challenger

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Whalefsh
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Reged: 01/31/03
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Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#62837 - 06/05/03 01:12 PM (134.36.120.112)

(I'm sorry if this has already been said or if I dont make sense.)

Has anyone actually studied economics at all? Things were fair enough when NASI controlled the markets mechs were cheap but now since GP are the only "real" producing empire the prices have gone up but once other large emps are able to start producing mechs the markets will come down.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not happy with the increases. If my precious firestarter with all it's lovely super-heated death gets totally destroyed I cannot afford to re-place it, which leaves vehicals as the only alternative, even though the vehicle market has been messed up 4 a bit they are still the only alternative to mechs.
The mech market is something outwith our control but we do control the vehicle and infantry markets to a certain extent. The current economic situation can be improved if producers co-operate.
I dunno, I'm just ranting...

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Whalefsh

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Koko
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Reged: 05/27/03
Posts: 11
Loc: Tampa, FL and New Orleans, LA

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#62849 - 06/05/03 03:11 PM (4.62.211.248)

Economics brr scare me. Thats why i like research and war.

But tell me if i am wrong but the only thing an empire can do is wait right (if they can't spend dp)?

I just started a new empire built a couple buildings and will now let it sit until it earns enough money to buy a stinger. Then i can wait just a wee bit more till i can take it into an arena and then hopefully win thereby buying another mech. Mechs have to be the goal for small empires esp in dealing with arenas cuz infantry maintenance is too much i think for small empires, vehicles suck and all teh glory and money is in mech battles To me that seems that only way to do and not pay. Maybe i can go on a infrapoaching spree which i detest, but that seems to be the consequences of Randy's love of land war.

My other level 3/4 empire was caught unawares by the whole thing mech markets switching around. I had just spent millions for tower defenses and some sweet elite goblins to kick locust asses, but then the gods robbed me of even winning arena battles against. have no Infantry suck, and i can only wait until buying a mech. Just like when i began, weeks of waiting. Phooey

Koko

Ps krynn i'm over in Temple Terrace

Then the man of the Weather-Geats, enraged as he was, let a word break from his breast. Stout-hearted he shouted; his voice when roaring, clear in battle, in under the gray stone. Hate was stirred up, the hoard’s guard knew the voice of a man. No more time was there to ask for peace.

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Krait
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Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#62889 - 06/06/03 03:16 AM (172.182.167.117)

The problem is that it will take RL years for any significant number of mechs being produced by players...

Heck CFB would take RL years to even get to the Urbie (but we wont even bother with those). Mech research reqs were just too steep to bother with. Now that we got almost all the vecs worth producing we are swinging our research towards mechs, but its a slow process...

Lata
Krait

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Tigre
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Reged: 02/10/03
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Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#62903 - 06/06/03 04:59 AM (12.47.79.2)

My level 5 and it's 8 mechs pretty much ground to a halt. the new rules help everyone smaller (larger SES) and larger (increased prices for even the light and med vehicles) but at level 5, no SES, and no production capability (ok, inf and veh. armor). We're screwed.

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- Tigre

Ipsa Scientia Potestas Est
- Francis Bacon

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pepsi
Private

Reged: 05/20/03
Posts: 39

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#63064 - 06/06/03 11:07 PM (66.189.193.130)

Hate the new mech prices..still...

Acid dog..I only used a 200million $ mech as an example. The thing is is that even when you buy smaller mechs you're still spending that entra 10 or so real days or whatever it is.

Also, if anybody is interested look to the top of page 4. I posted a break down of Randy's idea of a balanced economy and his statements about the cost increase not affecting empires because of the SES.

Another thing that I have to ask, if I have to wait 10 real days or something to buy a mech then wait 3 real days to save the cash to train it. Train it for 20 real days (200nev days) then what fun is it when I have 1 mech and when I land war somebody gets a floater on the first turn? Mechs are rare..cool...but vehicles shouldn't suck as much as they do. It's almost like he's trying to turn this into a mechwarrior darkage thing... (yuck) The only thing that keeps me on this game is the fact that my faciton leader sends my 25million every third real day and will increase it to match my empire level amount when I reach level 5. Without that money there is no way in hell that I can afford to build up a military and attack for infastructure, build infastructure, or do anything else.

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Aut Mors Aut Victoria.

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Aciddog
Lieutenant

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Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#63066 - 06/06/03 11:11 PM (12.82.69.94)

Alot of ppl seem to do it every day without their faction leader sending them loads of cash. At least my faction leaders dont and prolly wont ever.

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pepsi
Private

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Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

#63129 - 06/07/03 09:52 AM (66.189.193.130)

I can do it without my faction leaders help. All that I'm saying is that I would be very inclined to leave if I wasn't getting that monetary support. By my faction leaders providing me money I can afford to build my empire and expand my military which, would be inpossible unless I focused entirely on vehicles for my military

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Aut Mors Aut Victoria.

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Phred
Sergeant

Reged: 01/20/12
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Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

[Re: Fiache]
#163701 - 02/04/12 04:09 PM (137.186.132.65)

Bump

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mattbuck
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Reged: 02/13/04
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Loc: Nottingham, UK

Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

[Re: Phred]
#163709 - 02/04/12 04:41 PM (128.243.253.104)

Mech prices now are cheaper than they've ever been in the 8+ years I've been playing.

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MatthewAce
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Reged: 06/25/04
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Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

[Re: mattbuck]
#163716 - 02/04/12 11:30 PM (220.255.1.35)

Here is an idea what it was like in the old days:
3-4m for Locust/Urbies
13m for Vindie
47m for Catapult

Things are a little better (from when everything get inflated) now, but still far from ideal.

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Urbies are good.

Edited by MatthewAce (02/04/12 11:33 PM)

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Katrar
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Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

[Re: MatthewAce]
#163718 - 02/05/12 12:13 AM (24.17.137.174)

I used to buy Imps for 80 million. And there were level 13s around at the time. Does that give you any idea how cheap it used to be to war? It was fun then. Now, not so much.

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MatthewAce
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Re: new mech prices... Moved from Nevmail

[Re: Katrar]
#163719 - 02/05/12 01:25 AM (220.255.1.63)