KingDiamond
Lieutenant
Reged: 04/12/03
Posts: 689
Loc: Germany
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'mercy button'
#125614 - 02/17/06 01:10 PM (128.176.216.116)
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Problem: Since cities are given back and your units shipped to whoknowswhereordarestodream after an in-battle surrender takes place, spoils of war have been extremely reduced, as the attacker doesn't even get the salvage. From the defenders point of view, and in the interest of motivation for people who lose a LW, it's fine with me that they keep their infra. But for attackers, LW doesn't pay off anymore.
Possible solution: Mercy button. It works like this: If a surrender kicks in while you are attacking a city, you get the choice to proceed killing or to end the battle right away. If you choose to stop, the defender keeps his remaining units, and will keep the city as well, but not before the victorious attacker was given a few minutes to ship out any loot from that city. The point in this idea is that it leaves the choice in the attackers hands. That way, two things are achieved:
1. the attacker has the opportunity to show mercy and leave the poor victim a few units with which to rebuild. Many people out there are just raiders whose primary intention is NOT to wipe out anything that ends up before their gun barrels. With this solution, they actually CAN raid cities, TAKE the loot, but are not forced to cripple the victim to death in order to do so.
2. choice being in the attacker's hands, abuse in the form of self-surrender to save trapped valuable units is excluded. If the battle would stop right away when surrender kicks in (as some ppl in chat wanted to see), anyone could save his poor rhinos by just self-surrendering. Merits for this input go to Klien btw :-).
I think it would add to the game's atmosphere and realism, and also, as a side effect, it might soften the nasty penalties of an Fwar loss as well. Public mail is quite stuffed with mails like 'We had to do this, because admins made us do it. We are very sorry, and we really didn't want to kill all your stuff, but, alas! We had to, we had to... God have mercy on our souls, we feel so bad'. With a mercy button (many individual empire surrenders achieved in the zone where most of the bv is concentrated), we'll see how many mails of that kind still happen to pop up in our public folder :-)
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Xia
Lieutenant
Reged: 08/06/03
Posts: 694
Loc: Forgotton Palace, Xu Chang, Im...
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Re: 'mercy button'
[Re: KingDiamond]
#125627 - 02/17/06 04:45 PM (67.9.123.225)
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Mentioned before at nauseamin in various forms. Ignored. Good Idea. Support it. 
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I find that violence is a perfectly viable solution to most problems....
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tranzoandris
Lieutenant
Reged: 08/27/05
Posts: 406
Loc: Wherever. Whoever. Whatever.
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Re: 'mercy button'
[Re: Xia]
#125631 - 02/17/06 05:46 PM (70.149.189.174)
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Support it. If only some unnamed people  would show mercy or some code of war in their battles. 
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"The lightning is a lone warrior. It strikes down all without care of what it hits. Just think what a controled army of lightning could do!"
-Undiscovered Journal of Konda in Kamigawa
Try the promo code "Swift is the wind"!
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Kit_fox
Colonel
Reged: 09/16/02
Posts: 3054
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Re: 'mercy button'
[Re: KingDiamond]
#125645 - 02/18/06 05:50 AM (129.138.30.190)
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Too easy to abuse as is, if the intention is to allow the defender to keep his units. Just wait until there is one unit left and then give mercy. Better is if they were only given a short window of opportunity to grant the mercy.
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The RNG mugged me in a dark street, killed my dog, and cancled Christmas.
When the winds of change blow hard enough the most trivial of things can become deadly projectials.
Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil.
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sk7
Corporal
Reged: 09/01/05
Posts: 86
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Re: 'mercy button'
[Re: Kit_fox]
#125648 - 02/18/06 07:43 AM (68.205.218.34)
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It's not a bad idea, but I don't see it happening. The admins have said repeatedly that they want more war, that they want to slow down growth, that rebuilding after being knocked down should take a while, etc. Why would they add a change that goes against all that?
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Wayward_Son
Major
Reged: 07/05/02
Posts: 1287
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Re: 'mercy button'
[Re: sk7]
#125655 - 02/18/06 12:27 PM (24.117.200.100)
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This idea has never been proposed before so how could we ignore it? I think it has merit KingDiamond and you did a good job thinking through the self-surrender part, which is our greatest concerned.
WS
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sk7
Corporal
Reged: 09/01/05
Posts: 86
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Re: 'mercy button'
[Re: Wayward_Son]
#125658 - 02/18/06 02:00 PM (68.205.218.34)
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Hmm...and there we have it. A command straight from the top for me to put my foot in my mouth. And not only that, but he listened to a suggestion and liked it. Somewhere, the devil's ordering a minion to bring him a jacket.
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Gunner
Sergeant Major
Reged: 07/11/04
Posts: 365
Loc: Hurricane Capital of the World
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Re: 'mercy button'
[Re: sk7]
#125663 - 02/18/06 03:25 PM (172.144.215.195)
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Someone mentioned pushing the button right before you actually take the zone. I'd say that having a popup like the one we get when we load the map should force you to choose then whether you wish to show mercy or not. If you click yes, all salvage including mechs are sent to your primary zone and the battle is done. If you click no, then you keep killing, and you get nothing but rep and morale same as now. No second chance to show mercy, simple yes or no. Usually if my opponent surrenders while I am taking a city, since i won't be getting anything, I keep killing to at least get rep and morale. I'd much rather have the salvage though, but something is better then nothing.
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It's a bird...It's a plane...Goddamit! It's another NUKE!
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Xia
Lieutenant
Reged: 08/06/03
Posts: 694
Loc: Forgotton Palace, Xu Chang, Im...
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Re: 'mercy button'
[Re: Wayward_Son]
#125668 - 02/18/06 06:18 PM (67.9.123.225)
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So Raids and Surrendering/Mercy/(insert "Clan Word" here... as I have forgotten it...for safe passage) have never been mention before in this forum or in chat? If you run a "Search" on these forums using the above words you will discover a host of really bad, decent, good, and down right awesome ideas you did not ignore. 
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I find that violence is a perfectly viable solution to most problems....
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SDan
Sergeant
Reged: 07/27/05
Posts: 127
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Re: 'mercy button'
[Re: Xia]
#125674 - 02/18/06 10:56 PM (69.153.2.47)
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Just as a little addition to this, maybe using this "mercy button" should add to your citizen morale, as your people will see what a kind and merciful emperor you are.
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Are you a newbie that needs help and wants some extra cash? Sign on using the promo code "me want candy" I will help you learn the game, and you'll start with lots of extra nevcash.
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KingDiamond
Lieutenant
Reged: 04/12/03
Posts: 689
Loc: Germany
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Re: 'mercy button'
[Re: Gunner]
#125689 - 02/19/06 09:21 AM (128.176.216.116)
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Quote:
If you click no, then you keep killing, and you get nothing but rep and morale same as now. No second chance to show mercy, simple yes or no.
Principally I would agree. But I would personally like to see a limited time to make your choice, or a limited number of turns. Let's say you are fighting in a zone, and there is something really valuable. A funny Mech or so :-). And you are about to kill it. Then surrender kicks in, and you got the choice for mercy or no. I think having like 5 or 10 turns to decide would be nice, so you could go like 'Alright. Let me just try to kill that MAD-4A, so I have a chance to salvage it. As such a mech is quite unlikely to already be alone halfway through a battle, you as the attacker would have the choice of giving it a try, at higher risk for your own stuff (having to deal with it's wingmen, higher risk maneuvers, etc.). Make that period short, in order to force the attacker to do something dangerous really quick if he wants that prize. Nice two-sided medal, so to speak, and could add some last-minute showdown spice to quite a few battles, depending on personal daring, confidence or over-confidence :-)
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KingDiamond
Lieutenant
Reged: 04/12/03
Posts: 689
Loc: Germany
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Re: 'mercy button'
[Re: Wayward_Son]
#125690 - 02/19/06 09:27 AM (128.176.216.116)
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Thanks for the flowers about the self surrender part, but as I wrote, that particular objection came from Klien. All I did here was kind of review a conversation a few of us had in neveron chat, that's all.
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davion76
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 08/07/02
Posts: 1605
Loc: Ridgecrest CA, USA
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Re: 'mercy button'
[Re: KingDiamond]
#125855 - 02/22/06 11:53 AM (138.163.0.41)
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"Let me just try to kill that MAD-4A, so I have a chance to salvage it"
You do not have any chance to salavage it. The opponent has surrendered and will keep the zone - as well as all salvage. I really think the mercy button should last 1 turn. 2 at most. Otherwise people will be giving"mercy" when they have killed all but one unit.
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KingDiamond
Lieutenant
Reged: 04/12/03
Posts: 689
Loc: Germany
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Re: 'mercy button'
[Re: davion76]
#125875 - 02/23/06 03:15 AM (128.176.216.116)
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Slight misunderstanding here. I said before that it's perfectly alright if the losing defender keeps the zone. But I also said that all salvage goes to the winner first - mercy or no.
Thinking about it... it might be a neat idea to connect mercy and the amount of salvage. You show mercy to the defeated army - they, together with the civilians living in that zone, show much more cooperation when it comes to leading your 'tax collectors' to the real stuff. Vehicles in armories, maybe even research secrets. That sort of thing. I'll leave the numbers to the admins in case this concept is ever considered to be implemented :-)
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