Malachi
Sergeant Major
Reged: 04/19/04
Posts: 369
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Displacement from cities due to SoI loss rather than mobilisation
#130383 - 05/05/06 01:00 PM (62.254.128.6)
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Instead of all the units mobilising why not have your units roll out of the city into the remaining SoI zones in an attempt to prevent your attacker taking anymore. This would be random but would probably work by reinforceing the zones closest to the city first with the lowest bv units. As your attacker takes SoI zones more units would moveout and thus make it harder for the attacker to cripple you by SoI loss. This also presentsa tactical dilemmafor the attacker, does he continue to take SoI zones and tireout his troops due to increased resistance or does he switch and make an attempt on the city leaving a load of units outside that could start attacking his beachhead if someone with a pilot login gets on line to help. Obv towers wouldnt be affect but ath the same time this adds a nbew dynamic and possibly an end to to the 216 plus defended zone. This would also help with mini surrender as if set low the attacker would never reach your city before it tripped due to the loss of your cheapest most replacable units defending your SoI, another dilemma, get to the city to do some damage before mini surrender trips or crush anything you can find outside (bear in mind it will be the junkiest units, but every little helps). Mechs would be the last thing to move out, or maybe a lance for every 10 SoI zones representing lance leaders increasing concerns about the SoI situation. This could lead to more dynamic counter attacks rather than "break out from city" scenarios. Already put this to wayward who seemed interested and i'm going to open a ticket about this now.
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NeverSayNever
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 11/18/02
Posts: 1655
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Re: Displacement from cities due to SoI loss rather than mobilisation
[Re: Malachi]
#130386 - 05/05/06 01:44 PM (172.208.81.105)
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Oh please come on, Malachi, instead of repeatedly attacking (for example with Snipers and a sensor Mech (if out of IDF ammo, then retreat, repair and reload, attack again, rinse - repeat)) a heavily fortified zone/city your proposal would most likely end up with attackers taking SoI zones fast via enforced ABR and hunting down and decimating small groups of randomly (= nonefficient) assigned defenders - one after the other.
Basically these randomly assigned units which are trying to break out / reestablish their SoI, would most likely be running on AI, which is kind of ridiculous, due to the simple fact that Nev's AI already sucks pretty much if you're trying to defend - even with carefully preplaced units, overleaping firing arcs, and or multi range defense towers for some added fire support, etc. - and things would get even worse if you sent out any randomly grouped units on AI for a suicidal counter attack.
For short: Nev's current AI is bad enough for a pretty crappy - but at least stubborn - AI defense, but the current AI is definetely not good enough for launching any kind of remotely efficient AI controlled counter attack, sorry.
IMVHO your proposal would only make things much easier for attackers, simply take the SoI zones via enforced ABR, wait for small detachments trying to break out and pick these apart one after the other.
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sdog
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 1791
Loc: europe
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Re: Displacement from cities due to SoI loss rather than mobilisation
[Re: NeverSayNever]
#130387 - 05/05/06 01:52 PM (139.174.165.124)
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i just immagine my zhukovs rolling out of the city into flat terrain.
same for my jump infantry battallions.
a slightly modified version:
if the attacker attacks one of the 4 adjacent zones of a city, a larger part of the city defenders roll out and defend that very zone. the defender can flag the units to do this. if he doesn't random units will do it. the defender can also preplace the taskforce in all 4 zones, to use advantage of terrain.
if the attacker retreats and starts another attack on those zones only uncrited vehs will roll out. if the force drops below 50% strenght they stay in the city. this will force the attacker to kill all of them, not to plink them away with snipers. unless he wants them to retreat to the safer city.
It is also always the same task force, you can not pull more and more forces out of the city and kill them one by one by attacking one zone again and again, but not conquering it.
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I realised soon that the fun part of playing a military game is that we have lots of lifes and in the end knowone dies, ...
- Skaven, ArmA modding community
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Malachi
Sergeant Major
Reged: 04/19/04
Posts: 369
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Re: Displacement from cities due to SoI loss rather than mobilisation
[Re: NeverSayNever]
#130389 - 05/05/06 01:55 PM (62.254.128.6)
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You mean rather than the current shit storm where a defender can place 40 IDF towers surrounded by swarms of hunters all just dumped in a zone. If people defended like you say then yeah you would be right. But they dont. Last zone i hit? 1 lance of mechs (mediums) 212 GRDs. Another zone, flat, 4 double range LRM-20 towers (easily outranging snipers now) battalion of partisans and a load of ontos n strikers. Seriously the only way to take big cities sometimes is to fatigue and run ammo down and crap like that. Note the whole mini surrender thing, they may not even get to the freaking city. I agree on the dispersal thing, you should be able to manually set the number that will move out, from single units up to entire battalions if you wish. If you dont want precious units going then use some junk like geckos to top out your zones. Oh and multi range towers is part of this, they force the use of snipers. Take em out, then IDF could go and bang, its back into clever tactics rather than rapage for like 5 phases before you can shoot back. If you have BPers then they can also stall for you and possibly do damage to people. BV could also be set for the group so that you could make groups that get sent out be over the bv level so ABR cannot be forced. BTW, do you war offensively at all? Or are you a fortress squater?
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Malachi
Sergeant Major
Reged: 04/19/04
Posts: 369
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Re: Displacement from cities due to SoI loss rather than mobilisation
[Re: Malachi]
#130393 - 05/05/06 03:05 PM (62.254.128.6)
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Thats gd Sdog actually, sorry my post was aimed at neversaynever as i was writing my response when you posted it. Yeah it would have to be limited til when you SoI zones "go critical"
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Xia
Lieutenant
Reged: 08/06/03
Posts: 694
Loc: Forgotton Palace, Xu Chang, Im...
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Re: Displacement from cities due to SoI loss rather than mobilisation
[Re: Malachi]
#130434 - 05/06/06 06:53 AM (67.9.117.201)
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Support it. I'd much rather have my units retreat... or better yet there should be an option on wether they mobilize or retreat from the zone. This should be at you descretion. It would take no time to gather and counterattack with those retreated units. Why should a defender be penalized... I thought we were done with forced mobilization?
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I find that violence is a perfectly viable solution to most problems....
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