Pimpslap
Sergeant Major
Reged: 03/13/03
Posts: 365
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Viewpoint
#164317 - 02/21/12 01:23 PM (12.171.57.50)
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Here is how I see things currently.
1. Sm has good intentions, but unfortantly these intentions are based on a limited understanding of how most of the game works above a certain level. This is not a dig, just the truth. Sm has never land-warred for 2 weeks straight, never built a research empire, and watched it take 5 years to even begin mech research, never really warred at all.
Here is a example, and again not a dig at anyone. If ghost was all of sudden owner of the game and was able to put in any changes he wants. Ghost has built up to a level 6 or so empire. And while he might have teh best of intentions, he just does not have the understanding of game that is needed to do it correctly.
2. Admin- Sm really does not have the time to be a full time around the clock admin. This means that problems go unsolved and sometimes unanswered for longer then needed. This in turns creates a situation that looks like SM does not do tickets, and listen to what is going on. When Sm does answer, his responses are based on the knowledge he does have, which a lot of times is not a full understanding of the problem, and or system involved. This in turn creates more frustration on the player part.
3. PR- A huge negative. This clearly is not Sm's strong suit. He has a deep emotional attachment, just as strong as the players who have played for 7 years. This often means that responses and public comments from SM are heavily jaded. While the players are mad cause changes effect their empires, SM then listens to how its all crap, which is turns means you are calling SM crap. No one likes to be called crap.
End result:
We all hate each other, no one is listening to anyone else, and everyone else is wrong. Players are pissed, and removing cash from the game, this in turn has the effect of pissing off SM, who needs the money to keep this game running, so that his project doesn't burn down.
End Result= We ALL lose
My Suggestion--
Sm go back to doing what you did before you bought the game. Be the chat helper, newbie helper dude. Sometimes to go forward you have to step back. Look at "hiring" someone to go over each and every process in the game, and come up with a COMPLETE solution. Not fix this, and leave that. To sit down and look at rebuilding most of the game, with a clear achievable outcome.
Have clear and stated goals with what you want to happen.
I think the player base has no issue paying to have the game fixed, but we want to know what is going to happen. Setup a VISUAL donation option that people can put money toward. Kinda like you see for fundraisers. As players we want to see when hit 5k donations that X will happen.
I think that everyone needs to remember first and foremost, this is a GAME. We are all here to have fun, and enjoy it. We need to ALL sit down, and come up with solutions to solve issues and problems. We as players have to understand we will not always agree with changes. As owner and admin, SM you need to realize we will not agree with agree with you and your decisions. But in the end we all need to learn to act like adults and treat each other with respect. That will do more in the in the end then anything else.
I would suggest that everyone take a step back... EVERYONE. Take some deep breaths, then lets solve this issue.
The alternative... well we can all keep hating each other. At one point this week we had less then 10 players in chat. Is that what we all want?
Pimpslap
PS-- Please keep all post on topic and positive or I will ask them to be removed. If you want to post comments outside of the scope of this chat, open a new topic please so this one is not cluttered.
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Harbingers of Chaos
COME WAR WITH US!!
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Katrar
Major
Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 1314
Loc: Seattle, WA USA, Terra
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Re: Viewpoint
[Re: Pimpslap]
#164328 - 02/21/12 02:24 PM (24.17.137.174)
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Honest communication is important. It doesn't do any good for SM to say, as he has, "I've been talking to people for a full year," when all that talk was essentially meaningless. Likewise, SM doesn't seem in the very least fazed by the potential loss of 90% of the core playerbase.
That is, to me, the fundamental problem.
SM seems to think that the problem is people don't like the changes. Well, no, we don't. But what we like FAR LESS is the absolute 100% refusal on SM's part to give a damn.
Imagine if SM came in here and put up a thread that said something to the essence of: "Ok, you are unhappy with system X. We need something that works like system X. We need it for these reasons (lists reasons). Help me come up with a solution that works for you, and for the game."
There are any number of people that would see that and want to contribute.
But it doesn't happen, and it won't happen. SM is too busy being in his little fight with his community. He says he's "above it all" of course, and that its us that are breaking the peace, but he's sure as hell not willing to step up and be the guy that tries to calm things down. He could do that in a moment. He knows how. It's been said as many ways as I have fingers.
If SM really wants to solve Neveron's problems he has a very knowledge community here that has BENT OVER BACKWARDS for the past year trying to help him do that with idea generation. Groups of people have put together manifestos. Some systems have already been torn apart and rebuild, conceptually, here in forums in months past.
He knows that the will and intent exist. But he's not interested.
That's the problem.
SM thinks that between his black book of ideas and Randy's ideas, he has Nev's design pretty well covered. Our input has been shown to be really, well... unwanted.
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HoC Gaming - Come war with us!
The HoC Archive - Neveron's definitive historical document
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Phred
Sergeant
Reged: 01/20/12
Posts: 174
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Re: Viewpoint
[Re: Katrar]
#164331 - 02/21/12 02:32 PM (161.184.189.112)
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Really, he has no idea what he has in the player base. All he needs is to do make sound decisions and to learn/hire someone to do the code. We come up with the rest.
What more could you ask for?
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mattbuck
Eeyore
Reged: 02/13/04
Posts: 3285
Loc: Nottingham, UK
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Re: Viewpoint
[Re: Phred]
#164341 - 02/21/12 03:26 PM (128.243.253.104)
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I disagree Pimp. If the project burns down, SM loses and we, the players, win, because we can finally walk away and get on with picking up the shattered remnants of our lives.
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Haha, you people think admins still look at these forums.
Visit the Platonian! Updated! Stuff! Things! Click!
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Rodon
Sergeant
Reged: 01/04/08
Posts: 146
Loc: Augusta, Ga
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Re: Viewpoint
[Re: mattbuck]
#164362 - 02/21/12 05:32 PM (75.131.179.178)
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LOL, sorry mattbuck but my life isn't shattered. I am however burning 6-12 hundred million worth of cities a day to keep my two level 12's out of the red. Despite more in training than I can afford I watch my forces degrade day by day. Therefore, pretty soon they will no longer be level 12's.
I did not create these empires simply to fight, or research, or conquer Neveron economicly. For a broken down war horse they represented an art form. I set out to craft something unique and pretty wonderful and was willing to pay well to maintain it. I succeeded beyond my wildest expectations, and for a long time stood near the top in many categories of the top 100.
Almost every action taken since SM has aquired the game has had negative impacts on these empires, and the codefest was a final nail. I hope there is a special hell for someone who would knowingly and purposely act in such a manner.
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Rodon
Sergeant
Reged: 01/04/08
Posts: 146
Loc: Augusta, Ga
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Re: Viewpoint
[Re: Rodon]
#164368 - 02/21/12 06:13 PM (75.131.179.178)
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P.S. I now play another game which IS getting similar donations.
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Phred
Sergeant
Reged: 01/20/12
Posts: 174
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Re: Viewpoint
[Re: Rodon]
#164369 - 02/21/12 06:18 PM (161.184.189.112)
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I just hope it isnt Randys game.
*shudders*
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Rodon
Sergeant
Reged: 01/04/08
Posts: 146
Loc: Augusta, Ga
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Re: Viewpoint
[Re: Phred]
#164370 - 02/21/12 06:21 PM (75.131.179.178)
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Hahahaha. Do I look stupid?
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Phred
Sergeant
Reged: 01/20/12
Posts: 174
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Re: Viewpoint
[Re: Rodon]
#164371 - 02/21/12 06:23 PM (161.184.189.112)
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No, I just hoped like hell it was not Randys game by some cosmic form of punnishment for our evil-player-base-doing ways.
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rantamplan
Sergeant Major
Reged: 03/26/03
Posts: 341
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Re: Viewpoint
[Re: Phred]
#164388 - 02/22/12 03:13 AM (193.144.201.49)
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I agree with pimp.
And applaud any initiative that tries to settle things down. Sincerelly, I think its sad to see that many people upsets with the changes SM did but if I had learn something about life is that things erenīt allways as you want them to be.
then you have 3 options:
- Try to change them.
- Move elsewere.
- Be unhappy.
Third one is the stoopid one, not only becouse you are hurting yourself but becouse its a destructive way of hurting others.
And if you choose the first one, the only way of doing it is being polite, take a step back as pimp said and try to find some kind of understanding with (in this case) SM.
So choose your option and proceed.
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Phred
Sergeant
Reged: 01/20/12
Posts: 174
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Re: Viewpoint
[Re: rantamplan]
#164395 - 02/22/12 09:41 AM (161.184.189.112)
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Those are the three most logical choices mantis.
That is not what is happening, as I am sure that was between the lines?
It is all emotional. We have a game called Neveron that some people really love. I mean like a family member. We then have someone coming along and hurting our loved one (Nev). We want to hurt them back. Classic.
I am not bothering anymore, SM is beneath me and my time. I may post here and there, but I am gone for the most part.
Good luck players, I really hope things turn around, I really do, but I am done.
Edited by Phred (02/22/12 09:41 AM)
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rantamplan
Sergeant Major
Reged: 03/26/03
Posts: 341
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Re: Viewpoint
[Re: Phred]
#164396 - 02/22/12 09:45 AM (193.144.201.49)
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Ehi, Phred, Im sad to see anyone leave.
If I were you I would just take a rest (a long one) and then maybe take a look back into nev. Maybe laters with other perspective things are different.
see you then  .
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Vindication
Corporal
Reged: 01/22/07
Posts: 53
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Re: Viewpoint
[Re: rantamplan]
#164409 - 02/22/12 01:52 PM (65.87.39.230)
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As a player that has torn into Shadow for his recent changes and some of the posts he has made here on the forums,I totally agree with Pimp and Mantis its time to step back and take a deep breath and let the anger simmer down and try and work with Shadow and save this game we all love to hate and play to have fun with.
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Old age and Treachery
will overcome Youth
and skill
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Phred
Sergeant
Reged: 01/20/12
Posts: 174
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Re: Viewpoint
[Re: Vindication]
#164410 - 02/22/12 01:53 PM (161.184.189.112)
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BOTH sides have to accomplish this task. not jsut the players.
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Slash_KTD
Private
Reged: 02/17/10
Posts: 27
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Re: Viewpoint
[Re: Phred]
#164447 - 02/23/12 03:11 PM (75.100.158.70)
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i agree with pimp that everyone needs to take a step back take a breath and relax,one of the issues i talked to SM about is he is trying to do everything himself,code,plan,explain,etc.so end result is we dont get good info or changes are slow,plan he has is lacking in the players eyes.
1st i told SM he needs to find someone that can be neutral in all ways to help him explain and keep info flowing then use that player in that way to help himself and nev as a whole.
2nd i have suggested to SM that he needs to get emp owners of lvl's he see's problems with together to help work over ideas IE large emps are having trouble with the changes so get them together to try and work out a plan.forums are good for a semi complete plan but for the most part if you try and work out a idea in here most people get ran over and give up as it seems waste of time,which imo leaves SM looking thru forums and rembering parts and peices instead of an overall picture.
3rd change is good it shows progress as something is happening just lets work on not freaking out and i did as well,and to SM try to stop blindsiding us you have a devoted player base that could be the best tool for you to take nev into its new future,but no info causes backlash this is the same as anything else, codefest caused an issue learn from it seems most are upset by no info and not really knowing what to do next.
4th when i called SM he appologized to me for the blind side this gives me hope that he does see that were not trying to railroad him or just be a horible player base for his game,we just need info and before hand is better than after.
hopefully food for thought for all
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mattbuck
Eeyore
Reged: 02/13/04
Posts: 3285
Loc: Nottingham, UK
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Re: Viewpoint
[Re: Slash_KTD]
#164448 - 02/23/12 03:17 PM (128.243.253.104)
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I'm sorry Slash, but SM genuinely seems incapable of working with people who have differing viewpoints, or of coming to any sort of compromise. He had people who were there to help him, we were called player admins, he never listened to us on anything, and we were for the most part supporting him. Listening to people who disagree with him, like the people he's trying to drive from the game? That's not going to happen.
Change for change's sake is not a good thing. Changes which are well thought-out, discussed and announced in advance are good, otherwise they are generally a bad thing.
Now we just need SM to apologise to everyone who doesn't want to have him know their phone number.
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Haha, you people think admins still look at these forums.
Visit the Platonian! Updated! Stuff! Things! Click!
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Tzu_Theory
Lieutenant
Reged: 10/28/04
Posts: 563
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Re: Viewpoint
[Re: mattbuck]
#165129 - 04/17/12 11:28 AM (128.190.125.2)
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Anyone remember when SM was asking for donators to help keep Nev going? I got railed for the detailed response I gave to him on why it would fail. I'm sorry it turned out this way. I wanted to see the game updated and improved.
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Tzu-Theory
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