Diablo
Sergeant
Reged: 08/02/01
Posts: 388
Loc: Canada, eh?
|
Ranges
#25702 - 03/04/02 05:20 PM (206.186.185.6)
|
|
|
wouldent it depend on the pilot what the range of a specific weapon would be? the weapons themselves may add a certain degree of difficulty firning a t LR but for the most part lasers and such. so....
standard range is 7 hexs. this is short range. 1 hex is close combat and recives -1 to all non-physical weapons. out to 14 is medium. 21 is long and 28 is extreme. the pilots gunnery is subtracted from basic range and recalculated accordingly. extreme range for a weapon is it's maximum range and cannot be fired outside of that.
-lasers have no effect on modifiers
-SRM's, SSRM's, NARC, SLRMS have no effect on modifiers
-LRM's and Arrow IV, +1 at long and extreme
-AC's/Gauss rifles, +2 at long, +3 at extreme.
-grenades, arty (except for Arroow) are +4 at long and +6 at extreme.
-PPC's are +1 at long and +2 at extreme.
--------------------
"whats that bluish fuzzy thing on your head?"
-Luciphear to Talis, just before he exploded.
www.geocitis.com/luciph34r
|
Bob_Richter
General
Reged: 04/23/01
Posts: 2886
Loc: Richland, WA (USA)
|
Re: Ranges
#25708 - 03/04/02 05:34 PM (134.121.16.63)
|
|
|
>>>wouldent it depend on the pilot what the range of a specific weapon would be?<<<
Nope.
--------------------
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
|
NathanKell
Major
Reged: 04/30/01
Posts: 1310
|
Re: Ranges
#25714 - 03/04/02 07:04 PM (24.44.238.62)
|
|
|
Depends what you define "range" as.
If it's the maximum distance over which a projectile / beam / rocket / etc. will travel, then no.
If it's the relative difficulty of actually *hitting* something at any given absolute distance, then yes.
--------------------
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson
|
Bob_Richter
General
Reged: 04/23/01
Posts: 2886
Loc: Richland, WA (USA)
|
Re: Ranges
#25717 - 03/04/02 07:14 PM (134.121.247.162)
|
|
|
Either way, it's already covered by the rules we have.
--------------------
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
|
novakitty
Lieutenant
Reged: 02/18/02
Posts: 447
|
Re: Ranges
#25782 - 03/05/02 04:48 AM (24.240.246.16)
|
|
|
By personal experience playing Mechwarrior games, at least half of this is accurate. While playing I find that it is not easier to hit at medium range with an AC/2 than it is to hit at long range with a medium laser. It would make standard rules resemble the Battlespace weapon system a bit more (with the weapons having a maximum range instead of having relative short, medium, and long). I say, try your approximate rules, and see how much it changes game balance.
--------------------
meow
|
BA_Evans
Private
Reged: 05/16/01
Posts: 58
Loc: New Jersey, USA
|
Re: Ranges
#25800 - 03/05/02 07:51 AM (63.97.240.1)
|
|
|
Does a pistol have the same range as a sniper rifle?
Why should all BTech weapons have the same range?
BA Evans
|
Cray
General
Reged: 07/27/01
Posts: 4131
Loc: North America
|
Re: Ranges
#25801 - 03/05/02 07:56 AM (204.245.128.3)
|
|
|
Because BT weapons are all big frickin' guns, potentially with far more range than can be harnessed effectively? I mean, yes, the the MG is a pistol with a 2km range and the AC/20 is a hunting rifle with a 6km range, but the targeting systems are only good to 21 hexes. Something like that.
I was thinking of something along these lines recently. Generate some standard ranges that apply to all weapons (1-7 short, 8-14 medium, or something like that) but then give each weapon a range limit. For example, an MG would only have a range of 3. Since it can't shoot at anything beyond 90m away, asking it to have good accuracy across that range isn't too hard. This would require a complete concept shift for BT weapon ranges - it requires a lot of new fluff ideas to explain BT weapon behavior.
--------------------
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
|
BA_Evans
Private
Reged: 05/16/01
Posts: 58
Loc: New Jersey, USA
|
Re: Ranges
#25808 - 03/05/02 08:17 AM (63.97.240.1)
|
|
|
People already build machine gun monsters when ranges are 1 - 2 - 3. What would happen if we give machine guns a range of 7 - 14 - 21?
BA Evans
|
Cray
General
Reged: 07/27/01
Posts: 4131
Loc: North America
|
Re: Ranges
#25809 - 03/05/02 08:21 AM (204.245.128.3)
|
|
|
I suspect more revisions to MG stats would happen.
--------------------
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
|
Diablo
Sergeant
Reged: 08/02/01
Posts: 388
Loc: Canada, eh?
|
Re: Ranges
#25867 - 03/05/02 01:25 PM (206.186.185.6)
|
|
|
call me crazy, but no one seems to get my idea. the range is what the pilot can hit at those ranges. the standard Btech modifiers for short, medium, long and extreme ranges apply to those ranges. the weapon modifiers indicate how hard it isto hit with these specific weapons at these ranges.
--------------------
"whats that bluish fuzzy thing on your head?"
-Luciphear to Talis, just before he exploded.
www.geocitis.com/luciph34r
|
Bob_Richter
General
Reged: 04/23/01
Posts: 2886
Loc: Richland, WA (USA)
|
Re: Ranges
#25870 - 03/05/02 01:30 PM (134.121.157.14)
|
|
|
What the pilot can hit at a given range with a given weapon depends on two things:
1) The weapon (reflected by the Btech range tables)
2) The pilot's proficiency with said weapon (reflected by the pilot's gunnery skill.)
I just don't see where your idea fits in.
--------------------
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
|
Cray
General
Reged: 07/27/01
Posts: 4131
Loc: North America
|
Re: Ranges
#25884 - 03/05/02 02:18 PM (12.78.128.202)
|
|
|
It's a replacement system, that's how it fits.
--------------------
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
|
Bob_Richter
General
Reged: 04/23/01
Posts: 2886
Loc: Richland, WA (USA)
|
Re: Ranges
#25889 - 03/05/02 02:35 PM (134.121.157.14)
|
|
|
Why the replacement?
The rules we have work fine. The actual STATS may need some adjusting...
--------------------
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
|
novakitty
Lieutenant
Reged: 02/18/02
Posts: 447
|
Re: Ranges
#25912 - 03/05/02 07:16 PM (24.240.246.16)
|
|
|
The replacement is because if you are firing a volley of medium and large lasers at an enemy, the large lasers should not be mystically easier to hit with when the target is 7 hexes away than the mediums. These suggested rules actually make sense as the apparent size of the target is probably more closely related to how easy it is to hit than the amount of energy in a laser. High or low range ballistics might have a modifier to their range values because of the speed of the shell, and missile weapons may be exempt from this idea, but it reflects that all the weapon systems are linked to the same general targeting aid for the pilot. It is not a neccessary change, just something that Diablo612 suggested to potentially add anethr house rule to any who find it interesting.
(my apologies to Diablo612 if my perspective of your motive is entirely false)
--------------------
meow
|
Bob_Richter
General
Reged: 04/23/01
Posts: 2886
Loc: Richland, WA (USA)
|
Re: Ranges
#25915 - 03/05/02 08:09 PM (134.121.157.14)
|
|
|
>>>
The replacement is because if you are firing a volley of medium and large lasers at an enemy, the large
lasers should not be mystically easier to hit with when the target is 7 hexes away than the mediums.<<<
If not at range 7, why at any range? Clearly there's SOME reason Large Lasers have a longer effective reach than small ones.
Furthermore, you need to consider the complete destruction of any semblance of game balance were this NOT the case.
>>>These suggested rules actually make sense as the apparent size of the target is probably more closely
related to how easy it is to hit than the amount of energy in a laser. <<<
So, um, change the stats for the lasers.
Why solve a percieved problem in such a roundabout fashion?
--------------------
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
|
Cray
General
Reged: 07/27/01
Posts: 4131
Loc: North America
|
Re: Ranges
#25924 - 03/06/02 03:42 AM (204.245.128.3)
|
|
|
Because, apparently, they don't work fine for everyone.
--------------------
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
|
Diablo
Sergeant
Reged: 08/02/01
Posts: 388
Loc: Canada, eh?
|
Re: Ranges
#25940 - 03/06/02 01:25 PM (206.186.185.6)
|
|
|
the lasers still retain there maximum range. the maximum range on a weapon is the weapons extreme range. that's why you would want a large laser over a medium one. all weapons do not mysticly have the same ranges. I'm trying to create a system that is more realistic.
and how do the stats on the lasers have anything to do with my rules? the maximum range has to stay the same all I'm pointing out is there is no reason a long ranged weapon should have a short ranged advantage over short ranged weapons.
--------------------
"whats that bluish fuzzy thing on your head?"
-Luciphear to Talis, just before he exploded.
www.geocitis.com/luciph34r
|
Bob_Richter
General
Reged: 04/23/01
Posts: 2886
Loc: Richland, WA (USA)
|
Re: Ranges
#25942 - 03/06/02 02:20 PM (134.121.247.162)
|
|
|
>>>the lasers still retain there maximum range. the maximum range on a weapon is the weapons extreme range. that's why you would want a large laser over a medium one. all
weapons do not mysticly have the same ranges. I'm trying to create a system that is more realistic. <<<
But that's NOT more realistic. Why would it be just as easy for a Small Laser and a Large Laser to hit the same target, and then have the small laser just die out instantly at the end of its normal extended range? That's even more nonsensical than it is now.
>>>the maximum range has to stay the same all I'm pointing out is there is no reason a long ranged weapon
should have a short ranged advantage over short ranged weapons. <<<
That may be true...FOR LASERS, but that would be the ONLY thing it's true for. Lasers are a special case. LRMs and SRMs travel at different speeds, giving them their differentiated range profiles. Same probably goes for the various classes of autocannons, gauss rifles, etc.
Only Lasers all travel at the same speed.
If you want Lasers to act that way, it's not hard to tweak their stats.
Small Laser: 3/-/-
Medium Laser: 5/9/-
Large Laser: 5/10/15
Or something like that.
>>>the maximum range on a weapon is the weapons extreme range. that's why you would want a large laser over a medium one.<<<
What is? The fact that it's POSSIBLE, just not LIKELY to hit the target with the 5x as heavy, only slightly more damaging, but way more heating Large Laser?
No, there's NO good reason to pick the big gun over the small one without the differentiated ranges.
--------------------
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
|
NathanKell
Major
Reged: 04/30/01
Posts: 1310
|
Re: Ranges
#25952 - 03/06/02 03:14 PM (24.44.238.62)
|
|
|
"No, there's NO good reason to pick the big gun over the small one without the differentiated ranges."
This is dependent on the {really, really weird} BT range : speed paradigm.
The converse of this example is that of the Dreadnought revolution: a Dreadnought could destroy an entire battle squadron by keeping the range open.
In that concern, having 10 12"ers mattered far more than a few dozen 9"s...
--------------------
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson
|
Korbel
Sergeant
Reged: 05/04/01
Posts: 215
Loc: IN
|
Didn't know where to jump in, so here goes...
#26030 - 03/08/02 06:14 AM (209.183.70.192)
|
|
|
First, the Range modifiers right now reflect the chance of hitting the target AND CAUSING DAMAGE. most people forget that last bit... Yeah you may Hit them with that small laser at range 9 but it wouldn't do any more damage than a laser pointer. We also have to remember that when we aim in a BattleMech, its not like picking up a rifle and lining up the bead on target, we are moving Mutiply turrent arrays to have many weapons fire from varying angles. There is ALOT that can go wrong, and even when it is all fine we can still just have a shell glance off the armor of the opponent(counts as miss)
Short Ranged weapons||| needs short range mod extended over majority of range,
Long Ranged weapons||| any weapon that is designed to fire accurately at a distance is likely to have targeting errors at short range. but of course there are ways around it like laser range finding, and all they other stuff in that 6000 lb cockpit assembly
|
NathanKell
Major
Reged: 04/30/01
Posts: 1310
|
Re: Didn't know where to jump in, so here goes...
#26036 - 03/08/02 10:04 AM (24.44.238.62)
|
|
|
Then why can't my mech, standing still, hit the broad side of a barn at > 105m with a small laser!?
--------------------
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson
|
Bob_Richter
General
Reged: 04/23/01
Posts: 2886
Loc: Richland, WA (USA)
|
Re: Didn't know where to jump in, so here goes...
#26037 - 03/08/02 10:07 AM (134.121.247.162)
|
|
|
Small Lasers just suck that much.
They instantly dissipate into worthlessness at around 90m.
--------------------
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
|
Cray
General
Reged: 07/27/01
Posts: 4131
Loc: North America
|
Re: Didn't know where to jump in, so here goes...
#26038 - 03/08/02 10:08 AM (204.245.128.3)
|
|
|
It can hit, but the 31st century materials the barn is made out of just shrug off the blast at that distance. 
--------------------
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
|
Diablo
Sergeant
Reged: 08/02/01
Posts: 388
Loc: Canada, eh?
|
Re: Didn't know where to jump in, so here goes...
#26072 - 03/09/02 11:19 AM (206.186.146.242)
|
|
|
then why are they here? we might as well use them as a laser targeter to get a -1 mod for firing within 120m.
--------------------
"whats that bluish fuzzy thing on your head?"
-Luciphear to Talis, just before he exploded.
www.geocitis.com/luciph34r
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit
Reply
Quote
