Dragion
Private
Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 68
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5 Nice changes for nev
#79531 - 01/06/04 12:50 AM (68.60.51.192)
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1) Take away Rep advantage in the arenas. Change this to a boost in prize money. it could be a % boost based on 1/2 of the total rep in the fight. 2 units in a duel that have a combined rep of 24, could have a 12% boost in the total prize money. This makes sense and well known pilots would draw bigger crowds, betting action, etc.
2) Re-automate building infra. Make it like factory production, your crews and EVs give you X amount of building points. You then allocate some of those points to a build order (20 res 5 comms for example).. after the build time is complete, the buildings show up. Getting rid of that need to check building completions and constantly clicking on buildings to make sure the right crews are on the right buildings.
3) Allow any empire that LW invades you and takes a 10K+ city to be DOWed.
4) Mech BV. a bit drastic, but my preferred boxer solution: BV should reflect that all mechs have a gunnery of at least 5 skill. If a mech has a 8 skill in gunnery, it will still show up as though it had at least a 5 skill (ie, a 3/8 mech would have the same BV as a 3/5 mech). this is not perfect, but its simple and easy to implement across the board.
5) Arena Betting, we tried to do this in chat, but its VERY hard to manage such a thing. If this were coded into the game (where a wager could never exceed 10-15% of the total pool and a empire could ONLY wager on itself to win). I think keeping abuse down would be simple givent he price of mechs. Sure a duel could be thrown, but if you can only bet 10% of the prize, it would be hard to win a significant amount
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Protagoras
Captain
Reged: 08/04/02
Posts: 1131
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Re: 5 Nice changes for nev
[Re: Dragion]
#79544 - 01/06/04 04:55 AM (161.114.1.180)
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1) Bravo... I think that would be both a benefit to making duels more challenging and fair.. but it would be VERY realistic. Famous (or infamous) mechwarriors would draw a crowd. I would add two things, consider adding in some way the unit skill to also increase prize money. Lastly to revisit the idea of negative rep units. a small amount of negative rep would be fine maybe no more than -1 or -2 but if 0 rep is given to an 8/8 putz.. well not too many would have a serious negative rep I would think.
2) Automated infra building would really be helpful. I would love to just put crews to work and not have to check all the time. I enjoy training and such when I log in.. I do not enjoy playing corral master on my building crews! 
3) I agree this might be too simple to just say 10K city... but (an) additional triggering event(s) need to be considered for DoW eligibility.
4) I have a suggestion in the same spirit as yours(and your suggestion inspired it) that might be more versatile. When considering the BV of ANY mech, consider the lowest skill the mech has, and calculate BV as if the other skill were four points higher. Then take the larger of the actual BV and this calculated BV. In short this would convert a 1/8 to a 1/5 and a 8/1 to a 5/1 for BV purposes, while leaving a 2/6 unit alone.
5) Not sure about this one. Alot of abuse is possible.. but I would love it.
if an idea like #4 is added, a new training method would be of great benefit. Concentrated piloting or gunnery training could be allowed. In effect any unit that has one skill that is 4 or more higher than the lowest skill may do Concentrated training in the higher skill. The chances of the skill raising in any 4 day session is doubled, but no chance for the non concentrated skill. In effect if you end up with a 2/7 pilot, you can send him/her to 'gunnery' school but a 5/3 mechwarrior would not be eligible for any concentrated study. I think this would help soften the effects of a new BV rule for 'lopsided' (i.e. boxer and sniper) units.
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newrotic
Lieutenant
Reged: 08/28/03
Posts: 681
Loc: Why are you looking for me?
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Re: 5 Nice changes for nev
[Re: Protagoras]
#79554 - 01/06/04 08:46 AM (62.104.219.85)
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I do support the Idea of taking away the rep bonus in Arenas...the highly repped Units/players commanding them have a lot of xperience anyway, why make it easier on them to give them an increasingly better chance to win init...?
Also, Protagoras´ Idea of BV-tweaking sounds really good. In combination with the Training changes he also suggested, it seems to be very balanced...but I am not sure whether I can really judge this.
Automated Infra building? Yes please!
The other 2...i cant really say anything to them, I have no clue as how to judge their impact.
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What you call truth is just your way of seeing things. Truth is too complex to be explained in words...
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Tigre
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 02/10/03
Posts: 1833
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Re: 5 Nice changes for nev
[Re: Dragion]
#79555 - 01/06/04 09:01 AM (12.47.79.2)
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Dragion, can I add #6? Take mines off the level 1 map. And this isn't just because after 48 hours of defense I lost a level 3 mine, but because it would encourage the large number of lower level empires who have mines to put them in production and start selling their resources. A lot of them are hoarding the mines for when they can open them or can produce, and the mines are needed now.
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- Tigre
Ipsa Scientia Potestas Est
- Francis Bacon
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Krait
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 06/22/02
Posts: 1639
Loc: Krautland
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Re: 5 Nice changes for nev
[Re: Dragion]
#79560 - 01/06/04 10:37 AM (172.178.212.120)
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1) Is how it was in the past. It was changed because it was seriously abused with very high rep units. Easy fix though: Just cap it at 50 Rep or so.
2) I don't really have any problems with the current way, but I can see that it might be very beneficial to people who are less detail-crazed than me.
3) I think that wouldn't help really much because even the DoW itself is prohibitively expensive for the really large empires. Now if there was an automatic DoW with no cost if someone took more than 110.000 pop off you...
4) 2/6 Mechs are still very powerful. The threshold between low-BVed boxers and normal mechs with good piloting is at a difference of 2 IMHO. 4/6 is ok. 3/6 is pretty powerful. So Protagoras' way would only work for me if its changed accordingly. Otherwise I kinda like Dragions fix for its simplicity. Though Mech should only have a gun5s BV if their piloting is also lower than 5. I.E. 8/8s shouldnt have 5/5 BV...
5) I really couldnt care less about betting. I think its far too difficult to implement reasonably cheat-proof.
And if I may add a 6):
6) Implement the BT piloting rolls for 20+ damage. While Dragion don't seem to think Snipers are underBVed (maybe because he has so many? :P), I think they are almost as bad as boxers. If they had to make that piloting roll for 20 damage, they would be kinda reigned in.
Lata
Krait
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Protagoras
Captain
Reged: 08/04/02
Posts: 1131
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Re: 5 Nice changes for nev
[Re: Krait]
#79563 - 01/06/04 12:34 PM (161.114.1.180)
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Yeah Krait I thought about that too. I guess my quandry is a 5/8 mech shouldn't be BV'd at 5/5 it should be a more gentle curve of some sort. Maybe a 5/8 should be BV'd at 5/7 and 4/8 at 4/6 then anything less as */5. As you said 2/6 is still pretty abusive and 3/7 is even worse with very small BV, but still excellent chances in close.
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ideaman
Newbie
Reged: 12/10/03
Posts: 10
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Re: 5 Nice changes for nev
[Re: Dragion]
#79569 - 01/06/04 01:39 PM (207.136.53.47)
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1) I agree, Reputation should affect prize money but not initiative, the only thing that should be able to affect initiative would be the mech's piloting skill... but that may not be a good idea either.
2) Absolutely!! Cracking the whip over my building crews is definitely in the top five most annoying things about Nev. (scrapping vehicles to change crews though is still number one)
3) Can't comment because I don't yet have a city of 10K+ pop.
4) A simpler fix would be to just let the challenger and defender see each other's units before entering the arena. I posted this idea in the 'Balanced Arenas...' thread in greater detail.
5) If you wouldn't be able to win a 'significant' amount then why bet??
6) Allow us to change the crews of vehicles and mechs without having to scrap them or buy new mechs.
Just my 2cents
Ideaman
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Kit_fox
Colonel
Reged: 09/16/02
Posts: 3054
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Re: 5 Nice changes for nev
[Re: Dragion]
#79578 - 01/06/04 05:20 PM (172.199.74.143)
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Just on #3, It was my understanding that any time you are attacked by anyone of any level you could DoW them, regardless of if they took a zone or not.
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The RNG mugged me in a dark street, killed my dog, and cancled Christmas.
When the winds of change blow hard enough the most trivial of things can become deadly projectials.
Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil.
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Someone
Sergeant Major
Reged: 01/05/03
Posts: 389
Loc: Sweden
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Re: 5 Nice changes for nev
[Re: Dragion]
#79618 - 01/07/04 06:30 AM (195.67.108.2)
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A reminder about #2.. They added it to reduce lag.
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Travel to the end of world and take one footstep into the oblivion and you shall find me there.
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Sharkman
Captain
Reged: 07/13/03
Posts: 788
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Re: 5 Nice changes for nev
[Re: Someone]
#79623 - 01/07/04 10:31 AM (65.90.13.19)
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It hasn't helped, because now people are checking and pulling up the buildings page more often. Daychange lag is still bad as well.
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Tigre
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 02/10/03
Posts: 1833
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Re: 5 Nice changes for nev
[Re: Protagoras]
#79680 - 01/08/04 06:47 AM (12.47.79.2)
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I took out a 2/6 Banshee with a 1/2 vindicator R yesterday. . . One less boxer in the world.
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- Tigre
Ipsa Scientia Potestas Est
- Francis Bacon
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Kit_fox
Colonel
Reged: 09/16/02
Posts: 3054
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Re: 5 Nice changes for nev
[Re: Sharkman]
#79685 - 01/08/04 08:11 AM (172.195.76.176)
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Just because you think lag is bad does not mean they should bring something back that will cause more lag. Just the same, because the problem has moved someplace else does not mean they should move it to the first spot again. I can assure you that lag was much worse BEFORE the change.
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The RNG mugged me in a dark street, killed my dog, and cancled Christmas.
When the winds of change blow hard enough the most trivial of things can become deadly projectials.
Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil.
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Sharkman
Captain
Reged: 07/13/03
Posts: 788
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Re: 5 Nice changes for nev
[Re: Kit_fox]
#79689 - 01/08/04 09:04 AM (65.90.13.19)
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You think I don't know, I've been here for nearly 4 years now.
Still changing the way buildings are handle has had a negligible effect on lag, the biggest improvements to lag have come from the ways soldiers are handled.
And if you really want to fix lag, then daychange items should be staggered, not all run at one time. Staggering the events will give slight amounts of lag dispersed throughout (that would be quite managable) rather than one huge lag spike that shuts the game down for 10 minutes.
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Kit_fox
Colonel
Reged: 09/16/02
Posts: 3054
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Re: 5 Nice changes for nev
[Re: Sharkman]
#79691 - 01/08/04 09:47 AM (172.199.251.141)
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Actually, the staggering idea I really like. I think I will send a help ticket in on it.
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_____
The RNG mugged me in a dark street, killed my dog, and cancled Christmas.
When the winds of change blow hard enough the most trivial of things can become deadly projectials.
Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil.
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Protagoras
Captain
Reged: 08/04/02
Posts: 1131
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Re: 5 Nice changes for nev
[Re: Kit_fox]
#79692 - 01/08/04 10:02 AM (161.114.1.180)
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The problem isn't like moving back to the old way. Its not that I want to have it check building crews every nevhour or whatever was happening before... what I want is that when I login, it checks all my crews to see if they completed a building. if they have currently nothing else occurs (other than the reminder) what *I* want is for it then to check if there are any commissioned building in the zone without a crew working on them and if so start working on them. Currently I can commission 20 buildings with say 4 crews.... and I have to check the buildings tab everytime I see some completed in order to start the next batch. I just want to have it start the next batch whenever I login and a batch is completed. So that I can just login like I currently do, and only deal with building whenever I need to commission some new ones.
Egads I hope that made sense.
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Mystified
Sergeant
Reged: 04/12/03
Posts: 119
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Re: 5 Nice changes for nev
[Re: Protagoras]
#79698 - 01/08/04 12:41 PM (12.30.213.107)
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1) Good call, reputation going to init is rediculous. Also this would make arenas more interesting because it would be a bit harder to figure out what is in them (or at least make people bust out their calculators)
2) Just do it at noon each day. Daychange for $$$ at 12am, Daychange for research and buildings at 12pm. If lag is bad, then just do it every other nevday with half of nev each time. Another way to do this that might be more effective is rather than assigning each crew to a building and checking for completion, just calculate how many BP each crew has completed, and then figure out how many buildings/ how far into a building a crew has built. Then check this on login IF it hasn't been checked in the last 6 RL hours or so. The lag is lessened and dispersed, and high level crews are useful again.
4) This is a good solution to a persistent problem. If ( gun - pilot) > |2| then
for BV calc, higher skill = lower skill + 2
Also: Check boxes on movement page, and multiple unit selection on training page.
And,of course, vehicle & mech mount/dismount
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