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Suggested Rename[edit]

Hello, I feel this page should be renamed the "Special Armed Services", considering the "Blackhearts" are the nickname for the service. Referring to the "Special Armed Services" as the "Blackhearts" is equivalent to naming the Davion Assault Guards The Crushers and 2nd Sword of Light The Steel Dragon--S.gage (talk) 00:44, 1 February 2014 (PST)

I think that the name was originally the "77th Special Arms Group", but was changed to the "Blackhearts" when they became a mercenary unit (and thus, is more current). At least that's what I thought the article said, though it is kinda confusing as the original unit's nickname was the Blackhearts. I would be hesitant to change the name. -BobTheZombie (talk) 07:09, 1 February 2014 (PST)
Blackhearts - or the Blackhearts - is the correct name for the article I think, because that's the most recent name of the unit in canon. They're in Mercenaries Supplemental Update as "Blackhearts". The Special Armed Services were an elite anti-terrorist combat group attached to the SLDF, according to MSU - so the SAS were a combat group like a brigade or corps, not an individual unit. The SAS were then made up of various units like the 77th SOG (special operations group?) which is what became the Blackhearts, but the Blackhearts aren't the 77th SOG any longer. If we had an article on the 77th SOG, they'd be on here as something like 77th Special Operations Group or 77th Special Operations Group (SLDF), and it would now be a redirect to the Blackhearts article. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 08:42, 1 February 2014 (PST)
Yes, the SAS were a combat unit, and seem quite similar to the Special Air Service serving the modern UK. I suppose the unit's evolution toward mercenary unit trumps my concerns in terms of article naming.--S.gage (talk) 09:41, 1 February 2014 (PST)
Something to consider:
My reading from ER:2750 and FM:SLDF is that the "77th Special Arms Group" (aka the "Foul Weather Fiends") was a BattleMech brigade attached to SL Special Forces Command, along with some other undisclosed BattleMech assets, and tasked with combat in extreme environments. They were not the infantry unit(s), but for logistics and command structure were part of the same command (SFC), along with some aerospace and infantry units. The "Special Armed Services" were also part of this command. They functioned as a dispersed infantry corps and were the only unit allowed to field Nighthawk PA(L) during the Star League. The two should not be confused. By my previous example, the Davion Assault Guards infantry assets are the similarly named Davion Assault Guards Infantry Brigade, but these infantry are not the Davion Assault Guards. I know the policy of CGL is not to go into great detail on infantry elements, but this is a special case. This unit was the primary player in SL "black ops", and were significant even though their history is largely unwritten.--S.gage (talk) 09:50, 1 February 2014 (PST)
Are you sure we're talking about the same unit? Because the Mercenaries Supplemental Update states that the Blackhearts were a part of the "77th SOG" not the "77th SAG" or "77th Special Arms Group". Field Manual: Mercenaries Revised also says "77th SOG". It sounds to me as if you have the 77th SAG on one hand, as a BattleMech formation attached to the Special Forces Command and on the other, the SAS, also attached to the SFC, with the 77th SOG being a sub-unit of the SAS, not a sub-unit of the 77th SOG. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 10:15, 1 February 2014 (PST)
ETA: Reading FM:SLDF, and comparing it with FM:MR, it looks to me as if the Blackhearts mercenary unit is based on the 77th SOG, a sub-unit of the SAS and which was deployed in the Taurian Concordat. It looks as if the entire of the SAS as a formation were nicknamed the Blackhearts, but the later mercenary unit adopted the formation nickname as the name of their unit. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 10:23, 1 February 2014 (PST)
OK, maybe SAS needs a separate article, and "other uses" would be appropriate here. That is, of course, after confirming this is true. I will take another look around, just to confirm, but not this instant (I have things to do this afternoon).--S.gage (talk) 11:14, 1 February 2014 (PST)