Talk:Kathleen Heany

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Jumping to conclusions

Great article - "as usual", I'm inclined to add, but that would steal the article's thunder. I'm very happy with the work you've done here. However, three issues do not sit right with me and I think you've been jumping to (wrong) conclusions there:

- What makes you think TRO3039 is "obviously erroneous" (in the Notes section) when it mentions her as a former Lyran Guards commander? You can't just go and declare a canonical source erroneous like that. Her history pre-3025 is unknown, so it must have been during that time.

- Similarly, the question who piloted the Atlas that was ambushed on Marfik. We've got a canonical source giving us a name, while the novel does not explicitly name the pilot. I have checked your reference and glanced over the chapter in question, and I don't see any implication whatsoever that it was supposedly Heany who piloted that Atlas (a somewhat ubiquitous design in Lyran assault formations). I have to admit though that I only have a German copy of the novel, and just found that Heir to the Dragon actually wasn't published via BattleCorps so far so I couldn't check the original. Something may have been lost in translation.

- The incident with the tanks is mentioned in the novel - overconfident Heany reports the Kurita 'Mech company shattered and demoralized when in reality they have gone on the offensive against her tank detail. I recall reading one source (BattlePack 4th SW perhaps?) where a sidebar gives a scathing report from the tank commander, who accuses Heany of gross incompetence and demands her head. It is entirely believable that she was arrested and possibly court-martialed over the charges, but being something of a social general she apparently came clear. 'Mechs vs. mere tanks, and all that. I don't see why her temporary arrest shouldn't be treated as anything but canon.

Frabby (talk) 06:30, 10 October 2012 (PDT)

Frabby - Finally getting to this. Sorry I missed it.

1) I see your point: in a vacuum, its totally possible Heany was a commander in the Lyran Guards at some point. Taken in the context of all the material I was looking at, however, it seemed highly unlikely. Heany was a commander of an elite RCT. Her most famous battle was unquestionably on Marfik. Afterwards, she moved on to a staff position with Nondi Steiner. To cite her as a former LG commander seems miniscule at best and erroneous at worse. If you like, I can go to the CBT Ask the Writers forum.

2) You are entirely correct what the chapter in Heir to the Dragon doesn't say that its Heany. However, in a later chapter, Heany talks about an ambush, and gives specifics that make it clear that it was Charette's intent for it to be Heany and her command lance. (I do make references and citations to that later entry in the article.) It seems very unlikely that Fuhito would ambush two different lances with the exact same composition. Again, though, if you like, I can go to "Ask the Writers".

3) You are correct, and if you check my references, I cite that work you mention. It was the original Fourth Succession Wars scenario pack, the one with a Davion Wolverine on the cover. I include all the references to the passage, so I don't know why it should be a mystery. As to why I question its canonicity, again its a context thing. That whole event is discussed in about six different publications. (I cite all of them.) Nowhere else does it mention Heany was arrested, and shortly after the battle, the Fourth lifted to attack more planets. Again, if you like, I can Ask the Writers.

When you go through about a dozen books researching a single character, it gives you a feel for what actually happened, or at least the intent of the writers. Now that "feel" may be mistaken, but I've included references and citations that i hope make clear where I'm coming from.

ClanWolverine101 (talk) 11:09, 22 January 2013 (PST)

Playing devil's advocate here, if I'm in any doubt when I find two sources that contradict each other (or one that contradicts many) I go straight to the Ask The Writers forum. That's why I've got so many questions tracked in my user page - I was losing track of just what I'd asked while making edits all over the place. There have been a few surprises from the CGL staff, where what I was sure was the right answer based on context turned out to be the wrong one. I also like to ensure that if someone gets snotty about how Sarna is "full of conjecture" or "riddled with errors" and points at any of my edits, I can simply quote the references and the ATW ruling as needed and let them go and argue with Catalyst. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 11:15, 22 January 2013 (PST)

The Atlas pilot in the ambush

My German copy of the book has a different page numbering, but I suppose you mean her inner monologue near the beginning of the next chapter where she muses that the Dracs had lost their fighting spirit, or otherwise would have attacked her Atlas instead of the Zeus. I grant you that it was apparently the author's intention that this was her own Atlas, but with the subsequent canonical publication of another pilot who is named as the pilot this was overruled. It could still be argued that the 'Mech in question was hers, piloted by a subordinate in that particular instance (unlikely), or that she thought of her entire command as "her" 'Mechs, in which case "her" Atlas would suggest there was only that single one Atlas in her entire unit. I think the situation is clear enough, and have removed the entire section about that battle from the article during copyediting. Frabby (talk) 07:00, 23 February 2013 (PST)

Frabby - That's fine. I believe the original writer's (Charette) intent was clear. I believe the scenario pack's developers botched it. But you're right. I can't prove that, and my question on CBT's "Ask the Writers" was ignored. ClanWolverine101 (talk) 11:15, 23 February 2013 (PST)