User talk:Guardsman

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Again, welcome to Sarna's BattleTechWiki!

*******Be Bold*******

Images and Copyright problems[edit]

Hello, Guardsman. Welcome to Sarna.net! Recently saw you upload some images, which been colorized and do not cite percide source they came from. Any image or content that does not come from a canon source, needs to have notation that cites that its fanom. Template gallery lists the proper templates and how to apply them. Thanks! -- Wrangler 02:02, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Hey, Guardsman. If you don't mind, I'll translate Wrangler's written English for you a bit, to explain what he is trying to help you on. When he refers to citing your source, it means that it has to include more than just the artist, but also the actual source of the material (preferably with page number). Also, as BTW is not an image repository, each image uploaded must be quickly associated with an article or it risks deletion. If you have any further questions or need help rectifying these issues, please let me know. You will also find Policy:Images to be helpful.--Revanche (talk|contribs) 03:43, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
I am in the process of overhauling entries for the Oberon Confederaton, Rim Collection, Rim Territories, and Rim Worlds Republic. I am doing most of the work in Microsoft Word for now, but I have uploaded some images to make sure that the links will work when I add the overhauled text. I am not sure what the term “fanom” means, but I will add sources to the images I’ve uploaded. I was recently talking to someone on ClassicBattleTech.com and I realised that I have a bit of an encyclopaedic knowledge of the Rim Worlds Republic and its successors, I have access to a wide variety of sources, with a fairly good idea of where to find canon sources that support my claims, and that Sarna was somewhat lacking in this area, so rather than ignore it, I’m going to do something about it to help the BattleTech community.-- Guardsman 04:54, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Hello Guardsman, this is what Fanon means. If you create the art work, then its considered fanon. When you list the source for such as your Rim Terrorities info, you have give the actual name of the thing. Even if there no article. Such example if a map comes from Handbook: Major Periphery States, you put the name such the one i've just listed here and page number and who created. Images that are slightly twik aren't quite consider fanon, but we note that they have been say colorized, when original was not. Alot folks are very specific about where canon info comes from. Example your, File:Rim Territories (3130).png‎ image does not give actual line name of map/book/file/etc it comes from. If comes from 3130 Map from Classicbattletech.com's source, we use the name writers/authors at Catayst Game Labs gave it. -- Wrangler 06:00, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
You know what, it’s not worth this kind of aggravation. I’m not even American, Wrangler apparently does not speak English, yet he’s doing things to files, before I finish even editing them, to basically say that I can be sued. This is not worth the hours I’ve already spent in “PREPERATION AND RESEARCH”. This is not worth the hassle or the stress. -- Guardsman 06:04, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
You're welcome to contribute, and I thank you for what you have contributed so far.
Wrangler and Revanche merely tried to lend a guiding hand by pointing out that you're obviously unwittingly violating community rules as laid down in our Policy:Images, and that we do have that policy in place for a reason. It's hardly fair to call that an aggravation. Providing sources is essential, as it allows all contributors to verify the origin, canonicity and reliability of a given information (be it written or graphic). There was also no indication that you weren't finished editing them (there are tags to indicate this such as {{Inuse}}, {{Underconstruction}} or {{Stub}}). I do realize that many articles and image files aren't up to our standards yet, but that's all the more reason to heed the rules. Frabby 08:57, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
In 2005, I downloaded a PDF file created by Oystein Tvedten from the WizKids MechWarrior web page. It was called MechWarrior: Age of Destruction Map of the Inner Sphere 3130. Rim Territories (3130).png was based upon that work. I cropped it, and gave it a border. Otherwise that file is directly from the source material. As the current Summary Information is insufficient, how shall I rectify that?
Field Manual: Periphery, page 112 mentions that Hunter’s Paradise had been opened by the Rim Collection for more than two and a half years. Handbook: Major Periphery States, page 175 mentions that Hunter’s Paradise had become a protectorate of the Rim Collection in 3062. What kind of a work does that make Rim Collection (3062).png? Is it fanon, is it canon? How should it be summarised? It seems like I’ve received a lot of criticism, and very little of it constructive. Do all the maps I’ve modified require an essay on exactly how and why I modified them to suit the written, descriptive, canon? I intended to site references, backing up claims in written text, but how should I do that for a map? You guys don’t make it easy helping out. -- Guardsman 10:45, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
  • Hey, I watched discussion and will provide help when necessary. Lets start by the maps. All maps which are available in the books are considered canon and any modification from them make them fanon. Fanon material are stuff which came from sources like the internet and are not offical battletech in contrast to classicbattletech. I think to merge fanon with canon material is considered as a problem. My offer to you is a cooperation about the periphery topic. Let me be the first to thank you for the engagement. Neuling 14:08, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
  • Hello, Guardsman: I'm sorry you interpreted our offers of assistance as aggravation. They surely were not intended to come across that way and I'm hoping we can get past that point. As for Wrangler's command of the written English language, please be aware he is an English speaker, but the reasons for his difficulties are private and will remain so. As you have have noticed, too, we have a large number of highly valued members who don't speak English as a primary language. Your interest in bringing knowledge to the BT community matches well with our mission, so your presence will be welcome.
We (as an open community) work hard to keep Nic Jansma (the founder of Sarna's BTW) free of legal hassles. I appreciate the hours you've spent preparing; you're almost done. By reading the policies Copyrights, Images, Consensus & Assume Good Faith, some of the hurdles we've already conquered should become clear. If that is too much work or if they policies are confusing, maybe you can state some possible solutions, to better help all of us craft a better policy. (The policy 'talk' pages will shed some light on how we got to where we are.)
I've tried to see where Wrangler told you you could be sued for your actions. I reviewed his User Contributions page, but could not find anything where he said that. I saw he loaded the fair use criteria for you in the image template, but that simply states you, the uploader, have determined the image fits fair use criteria. If it doesn't have that, per policy we have to delete all new incoming images that the user feels does not meet fair use. After all, it isn't up to Nic Jansma to review every image before it can go live, so we leave it up to the individual who feels it brings value to our project report on BattleTech to say it is being used fairly. If I did miss a comment where Wrangler was unfairly harsh in his discussions to you, please bring those to my attention.
The Summary line in the image templates would probably be the best place to indicate what modifications you've made to official products. (Before a volunteer wrote that for us, we would write it on the image's talk page.) And, yes, each image does require such a summary. It doesn't have to be comprehensive, but provide the reader with some manner to both understand what was changed and how to find the original, in order to verify the information is correct. I hope you find the effort I put in to making this clearer for you helpful and that you'll want to remain and help build up Sarna's database of illustrative maps. Thank you.--Revanche (talk|contribs) 14:35, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Great job on updating the image information - thank you for that! This should clear up the problem for good. :) At this point, I think an Image Import Award is in order. Feel free to add it to your user page. Frabby 21:21, 21 February 2011 (UTC)


I'm in your maps, fixing your categories! Dirk Bastion 20:57, 23 February 2011 (UTC)