Talk:Gravedigger

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IS tech base with Clan tech base

This article has some weird details : it packs both IS and Clan tech straight from, as it is said, factory. I never saw such a 'mech and as an Inner Sphere 'Mech, it shouldn't receive the so highly-sought after Clan equipment... As Brick Commander's page is not considered as a canon page, this source can be questionned. At least, if the IS can produce such a 'mech, and as it's not likely to be an Omni, it can't, from my mind, blend both IS and Clan tech bases. I'd like to have your opinion on this question before editing. --FIVE-one 06:10, 26 May 2008 (CDT)

It's a ClickTech 'Mech. They can do whatever they want, even include equipment that is not tournament-legal under CBT play. --Scaletail 09:07, 26 May 2008 (CDT)

It isn't, it's a Wizkids canon 'mech from MechWarrior : Age of Destruction released in several Solaris VII packs and the Apocalypse mercenary lance, both released in winter 2007. As a canon 'mech, CBT rules must be applyied. Also BrickCommander isn't Wizkids, so this equipment source may not be canon nor right at all. This is why I ask you. --FIVE-one 09:59, 26 May 2008 (CDT)

No, CBT rules do not have to be applied. There are no CBT rules for a three-legged, 135 ton 'Mech, but it exists in ClickTech. I do not have any MW:DA/AoD products, so I cannot confirm whether any of the stats in it are correct. It's not uncommon for Solaris 'Mechs to be different in their usage of experimental or mixed-tech units. Since the article has no text, I do not know where you are getting the information that this is a factory-produced model, so I cannot help you with that. A search of WizKids' website for "Gravedigger" turned up this. --Scaletail 16:21, 26 May 2008 (CDT)

It is not because there are no CBT stats for the Ares that all other Wizkids 'mech follow unformal rules. Wizkids product are, from the canon discussion thread, canon at all. This 'mech also isn't designed for solaris, it has been firstly designed for the Undead Lance (the Apocalypse Riders). It comes with other 'mech of this kind such as mortis, cadaver and exhumer. Those are all wizkids produced 'mech and follow canon rules.

A special thread is available on Wizkids official forum where stats can be asked to the Wizkids staff. It might be represented, at the moment, only in click format, but other designs, such as Mad Cat III appeared also in CBT. As this 'mech isn't designed especialy for Solaris, and is not a campaign refit from salvage job. Those stats, combining Clan and IS techs, are also likely to be used in campaign, where techs mount salvaged part on damaged 'mech. As this article is for a canon, factory produced 'mech and not a salvage job one, it should respect CBT rules, as any other 'mech (except the Ares question...).

As I'm a DA/AoD player, plus a CBT player, I know Wizkids respects CBT rules and I NEVER saw this kind of mixed 'tech, either in the AoD. If IS could use Clan tech base, they would make Clan like 'mech rather than mixed 'tech. But in the Dark Age, more than any other period, IS is far from mastering Clan tech base. As you could see, more recent IS production such as the Jackalope are still using IS tech base.

I don't know where you heard MW:AoD/DA, or whatever you call Clicktech, follow unCBT like rules, but as I'm playing DA since the beginning, I never saw any distorsion from CBT rules. Sure the Ares is a 135 ton 'mech, but it also follow CBT rules and uses IS tech base only. --FIVE-one 04:17, 28 May 2008 (CDT)

Fair enough. I don't play AoD, so maybe somebody else who actually has the stats for this 'Mech could comment on them. My point is this: mixing Clan and IS tech is not illegal in CBT play. --Scaletail 07:40, 28 May 2008 (CDT)

And this is where I wanted you to come : I agree with you : mixed Clan and IS tech is an heresy. Except with Solaris or campaign salvage job, this kind of mix isn't possible. As Wizkids always followed CBT rules in its products, the source of this article, brickcommander page, may be wrong. As this is not an "official" site for canon stuff, our point of view should be true. So this is the point of this discussion : as this is unCBT like, this article should be edited. I'll search Wizkids forums for official stats, and will update the article. I'm pleased we agree on this point, as some other player I know don't understand why this kind of mix, for a manufactured 'mech, is an heresy to CBT rules. --FIVE-one 14:53, 28 May 2008 (CDT)

You misunderstood my point. Mixed tech is legal. I'll agree with you that I've never seen a factory-built 'Mech using mixed tech, but that does not mean it cannot change. In the same way as there was no Colossal-class 'Mechs until the first, there could not have been a mixed-tech 'Mech until the first. I'll tag is, though, since it is unsatisfactory. --Scaletail 17:35, 28 May 2008 (CDT)

Ok, but I can tell you from my experience of AoD/DA, and as I possess nearly all DA/AoD figures (except some old DA LE that I'm not interested in) : there is no mixed tech bases, even in Clicktech.It's why I was so alarmed by those stats. Mixed tech bases is indeed possible, but I always saw those through salvage job. Good job with the cleanup tag by the way. --FIVE-one 03:12, 29 May 2008 (CDT)