Talk:Scorpion (BattleMech)

MechWarrior I variant

As described, this is obviously an error. The model designation is the same, but the armament differs, so the most recent source (Record Sheets: Project Phoenix and Technical Readout: 3025 Revised, respectively) is the canon one. Besides, what is "twin auto-load heavy mortars" mean, in lieu of the fact that there are no mortars in CBT (except for the Tactical Handbook, which barely counts anymore)? --Scaletail 11:34, 28 January 2008 (CST)

I would not discount it as an error, the information is much too detailed and direct for that. I did refer to my (German) copy of the TR3025. Turns out that of the two notable MechWarriors described for the Scorpion, one is named Wendell Purina II, and serves in Marik space with SCB. I suppose Activision "activated" a canonical person from the TR and added some fluff here, just like it was done with Uchita Tucker in the Sword and Dagger novel.

It comes down to what is canon and what is not. My opinion is that the description does contribute canon, because it is part of a storyline published under a valid license. The TRs cannot, in my opinion, provide exclusive canon - just because something is not in a TR does not mean it does not exist. (Same as with "lost" planets in Category talk:Planets.) Mind that I am not discounting the TR information. Just there seems to be yet another subvariant of the 1N type.

Regarding the mortars, not sure if the Tactical Handbook was already published by 1989 when the game came out? But then, Brigadier could have built something that was never built into another 'Mech and fell into disuse. We're seeing all kind of fancy stuff and pea shooters added to MW:DA so why not have mortars (21st century tech) on a fire support 'Mech. Frabby 13:37, 28 January 2008 (CST)

Okay, so what was removed in order to make the addition? --Scaletail 18:43, 28 January 2008 (CST)

That's anybody's guess. But I would like to point out that is a common problem with variants. The TRs never provide information on the details of a changed armour configuration on variants, nor the location of additional slots for altered weapon/ammo loadouts. The German TR3025 notes a "1A" variant of the Scorpion with several subvariants that has a different armour configuration. If a Mech variant is not in some Record Sheets then there is no definite canonical answer to questions such as where the heat sinks are located or how the armour config was changed. And then there are quite a few variants mentioned in the TR that would not conform to the construction rules. Examples are the original Commando (a SRM-4 plus ammo is 3 tons, the Large Laser it alledgedly replaced is 5 tons), the armless (!) variant of the UrbanMech, the Hatchetman (whose Hatchet had no tonnage in the TR), the Vindicator variant with six jump jets (4/6/6) from the TR, or the Catapult variants as described in the TR (both exceed 65 tons). Further, there are "variants" that do not even alter the game stats in any way, such as the 8Z Panther model that simply has a better radio equipment and smaller battle computer than the regular 9R. My point is that we do not know what was removed from the Scorpion variant in question, but that does not rule out that such a variant might exist. Frabby 03:56, 29 January 2008 (CST)

I understand your point, but I was trying to illustrate the lack of information about it, which is why I sequestered it in a "video game variant" section. Because this is actually a larger discussion that Project:BattleMechs needs to have, I started a discussion on it over there. --Scaletail 19:03, 29 January 2008 (CST)

It bugged me any I replayed Mechwarrior to check. The text in the game (all in capitals) reads:

In the last bay on the end squats the spider-like form of a SCP-1N Scorpion, its regular PPC and Marvel 6-Load-SRM rack augmented by twin auto-load heavy mortars and a Sperry Browning machine gun. You don't see many of these anymore. The man cursing over the cabling inside the right front leg turns from his work. The name patch on his coveralls reads Puritan.

"No, you don't see many. She's one of the last of her kind." he says with a grunt as he pulls a cable free. Conversation is easy as it moves through the modifications he's made to the old Mech, but it bogs down when the subject changes to his brother. [...]

So we are talking about a modified 1N, not a new variant, after all. I have removed the entry. Apologies for the mistake. Frabby 10:53, 30 January 2008 (CST)

Seems like an easily-understandable mistake. Regardless, I think it makes sense to remove it, especially since it would be hard to figure out how to make one of those using the design rules. :) I have to admit that I really had no memory of there being something special with that. I do remember sniping the Dark Wing BattleMasters with my own at the end game, but a lot of it is still a bit fuzzy (other than the warm fuzzies of having played it). Bdevoe 12:34, 30 January 2008 (CST)

After having this discussion here, then re-reading the WikiProject:BattleMechs page, I realized that WP:BM needs to have a discussion on video game 'Mechs & variants, so I started one. Thank you for double-checking the source, but it was good that the issue was brought up. --Scaletail 16:11, 30 January 2008 (CST)

Some thoughts on the Scorpion 1N

First up since the stuff above in here caught my eye.. I think it is still at least worth a note as to some of the things users are known to swap out. I personally did a similar modification to one and it's pretty easy to pull off -- the "twin autoloading mortar" is just a Mech Mortar/2. Then slap in a ton of ammo and 1 MG and half a ton of ammo. You could easily cram 2 Mech Mortar 1s in as well, get 2 tons of ammo for them (better for the 'twin' effect) and then slap in the MG and half a ton of ammo. I mean we are listing MWO variants, why not list apocryphal unique refits?

Anyway, as for the original reason I was here, there's two things. A chassis described as a bucking bronco getting "highly stable" as the reason it's gun is so accurate sounds very counter intuitive...

I think I have a better explanation for the second cockpit seat and the gun on the unseen artwork. It even works with the MW1 variant above (since removing the PPC would remove the point of its elaborate targeting system). The height of both the frontal cockpit is on about right for the PPC. We've seen with the Ostsol that pointy appendages can be used for higher end sensor equipment. In Lethal Heritage, a 360 degree field of view was supplied one of the mechs by way of sensors. I'm certain the apparatus on the sides can be part of that array, along with the second cockpit seat and the pintle turret being a part of the targeting system. A design like a pintle turret would be needed for a directional sensor to keep track of a target in SPITE of the machine's rough ride, and would make sense for a machine that can tilt itself, raise up and down, and even walk after losing two of its legs (surprised that detail was left out, where most quads could continue to walk with 3 legs, the Scorpion can do it with only two as long as they are on opposite sides of the machine.) The speculation of it used to be intended as a weapon and a second occupant's seat can still be in there and make sense. Just a thought.--Koniving1 (talk) 20:21, 1 October 2019 (EDT)

To be honest as pure speculation about the sensor array it is better to take stuff like that to a proper chat forum rather than the wiki. The unique refit, I would ask Frabby his thoughts on it now as he is essentially our Loremaster ;-)--Dmon (talk) 20:40, 1 October 2019 (EDT)