User talk:Frabby

Archive 1 (created 04 January 2012)

Hunan

I'm glad that you found the wrong co-ordinates for Gotterdammerung. I was wondering if you could take a look in your atlas of the Inner Sphere for Hunan. It's placed on the map here to the northeast of New Avalon, but it's listed as being part of the Capellan confederation and as having been part of the Terran Hegemony. I think this must be wrong, but I have no way of checking it. If it's possible, could you take a look?

Follow up: The co-ordinates are listed as: (X: 333.04 Y: 333.04)

Thanks, --Workerbee 09:41, 30 May 2008 (CDT)

It is located in the triangle formed by New Aragon, St. Andre and Foochow, fairly exactly "north" of Zaurak and Kaifeng. The Atlas gives the coordinates as X: 73,04 Y: 96,76

Btw it is a known problem that the planet's X/Y coordinates are wrong. When the entries were auto-generated, the X-coordinate were erroneously put into both the X and Y slot. Nic is aware of this and it will hopefully be corrected in a future update. (See Category talk:Planets# Major Problem with Coords). Frabby 13:10, 30 May 2008 (CDT)

Thanks again. --Workerbee 15:24, 30 May 2008 (CDT)

Wouldn't that be (73.04, -96.76?), as Hunan is "south" of Terra? Since you've become the planetary coordinate guru, would you be able to check and make sure that the master file has as that data correct? I've already corrected Menkent, Blue Diamond, Gotterdammerung, and Hunan. Specifically, could you check out Sakhalin, Scituate, Cartago, and Chamdo? Thanks! --Scaletail 17:42, 1 June 2008 (CDT)

Yes, you are absolutely right: Hunan is at Y -96.76, sorry! Regarding the others:

• There are in fact two systems by the name of Sakhalin: One is a CapCon/Sarna Supremacy world at X: 62.33 Y: -142.92, the other a Lyran world at X: -24.25 Y: 153.09. The one on this wiki is the CapCon world, Sakhalin (LC) is missing as of yet. I had already noted it on the article some time ago (CC/SS world is spelled Sachalin in German material, but not in the original English sources).
• Scituate has X: 88.67 Y: -221.94 in my Atlas. The wiki apparently used a positive Y coord, as it is erroneously shown at approximately the same altitude as Mannedorf (which is Y: 228.98).
• Cartago placement seems to be correct (at X: 141.09 Y: -10.17)
• Chamdo placement also seems to be correct (at X: 10.43 Y: -153.61); however, in the immediate vicinity Yunnah seems to be slightly misplaced. The correct coordinates for Yunnah are X: 27.67 Y: -124.13. It should be halfway between Corey and Second Try but here it is erroneously shown on the same altitude as Tsinghai and Chamdo, at Y: -153.61.

Checking the big file? I am honored, but it is a daunting task. It will take time. (Add the fact that some names were actually translated into German, i.e. Second Try is named Zweitversuch (lit.: Second Try) in German. That one could be guessed, but it literally took me a year to figure that Rand is meant to be The Edge...

Oh, and then there is that issue with "missing planets". It grew to quite a collection on the CBT forum, and there are other cases. This wiki, for example, has Ferris (Outworld Alliance) but there seems to be another Ferris in the Oberon Confederation which as of yet is not mentioned here. Frabby 18:17, 1 June 2008 (CDT)

The file does have Sakhalin (LC) at the correct coordinates. It has Scituate at 88.67,221.94 so that is incorrect. Yunnah is a tad off at 27.64,-154.13. Both have been corrected. It is daunting, I agree... but something does need to be done about the planets that are not represented, especially the planets of the Marian Hegemony and Circinus Federation. I also feel like Clan planets should be added, as well as those in the Deep Periphery, but that's a whole separate issue. --Scaletail 18:46, 1 June 2008 (CDT)

Frabby, please review the discussion that developed after your opposition statement in regards to doing away with coordinates. The question needs to be settled as to from where these coordinates should reliably come. It's not as clear as simply providing printed canon coordinates.--Rev ^{(talk|contribs)} 14:56, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Review : Armed Forces of the Federated Commonwealth

I was reflecting on my work on Sarna up until now and asking myself : What would impress them at this point?
So - I redid the Armed Forces of the Federated Commonwealth.
I chose this one for several reasons : First, sentiment. I started following BTech with the Clan Invasion. Blood of Kerensky. TRO3050. To me, the FedCom was an appealing faction. They were the quintessential "good guys". The ones who might have a shot to stop the Clans if they got their acts together, as they did on Twycross. I NEVER liked the idea of the Lyran Alliance, or of an AFFC reduced back to House Davion. Second, none of the existing articles (AFFS/AFFC) reflected the actual UNITED AFFC. In my mind, that military had its own identity, if only temporarily. I feel, in fact, that identity is easier to pin down. Our articles on, say, the DCMS should reflect literally hundreds of years of history. A unit that was killed of centuries ago should be listed alongside one that was just formed in the latest publications. Since the AFFC had a beginning, middle and end, it was a story that could be told in its entirety.
Third, the greatest compliment Rev (or anyone) paid me for my Alpha Regiment article was that it set a standard for unit articles. I wanted to do the same for an entire military. The format I used is my submission for that new standard. I realize such things require discussion, and I don't want to step on anyone's toes. So I did this, to show what such an article COULD look like.
Fourth, I wanted to prove to myself that I could do this. I had a very clear idea of what a comprehensive AFFC article would look like. I feel I've met that, and applied the standards I set for myself.
So - that's all I have. Give it a look and tell me what you think. Thanks. ClanWolverine101 18:23, 26 December 2011 (PST)

Frabby - any thoughts? ClanWolverine101 11:47, 3 January 2012 (PST)

I haven't forgotten you, but I just haven't come round to read the article beyond a cursory review yet. (Workload, down with flu for 3 weeks now, the usual excuses... :) ). Frabby 01:11, 4 January 2012 (PST)

I understand. I wanted to get some admin thoughts as Neuling expressed some.... concerns about the format. Thanks! ClanWolverine101 06:01, 10 January 2012 (PST)

Nudge on this. Thanks! ClanWolverine101 22:35, 20 January 2012 (PST)

Finally found the time. Since Rev already put up a review on the article's talk page, I added my comments there and also worked over the article proper. Frabby 00:48, 22 January 2012 (PST)

Hey, responded. I'm very willing to work with you on this. Thanks! ClanWolverine101 21:01, 23 January 2012 (PST)

Award

Hy Frabby i give you this award for your great Phoenix (novel) article, please add yourself to your user page i don't want to make editis on there, i have also the book in german and love the Mad Jumpin' Jacks merc unit, please post more from our german sources, there is i a lot of missing on sarna, i appriciate your work.--Doneve 17:24, 5 January 2012 (PST)

Thanks! :) I initially didn't even realize that Phoenix was not an US novel (with the cover from Wolf Pack and all that), and only your article about the Jacks made me scratch my head. Then, when I re-worked the list of novels, I saw for the first time that this wasn't translated from anywhere. Frabby 01:11, 6 January 2012 (PST)

Response

I maked it short, the publications handle the regiments differently. Take alook at the Era report 3052 p.149, the Historical War of 3039 p.141 or Fourth Succession War Volume 1 p.45. The commands are treated differently and have differnt battle histories. They share an common history but have also their unique expierence gahtered. That with the name can be changed with no great deal when its bother you.Neuling 10:35, 14 January 2012 (PST)

Rev

Hey Frabby - any word on Rev? ClanWolverine101 09:39, 15 January 2012 (PST)

Was curious myself and sent him an email. To quote his answer, "Needs of the Navy," as the saying goes. Real world events are soaking up a lot more of my time than I'd prefer. It's partly conditional and partly drama, but I myself am ok, just a bit over-tasked. Please express my apologies and appreciation for the concern. I'll get back as soon as I can. Frabby 00:48, 16 January 2012 (PST)

Good to know. ClanWolverine101 06:57, 18 January 2012 (PST)

Neuling

Update of Composition

Hello Frappy, I had update all forces from 3025 with the corresponding material from the different sources. When you and the others user had difficults with my work I apoligize to you and others. The next steps will be 3040/3050/3054/3059-3064/3079. Further more I will include the material about the equipment and the where the mercs were contracted. I hope you understand my work better. Neuling 11:25, 15 January 2012 (PST)

A major sticking point, I think, is that potential BTW users from places like the BattleTech forum come over to look up something at Sarna, and find an incomplete, poorly written or poorly referenced article that doesn't help them for whatever they were searching for. Unfinished articles are a problem because they look sloppy, and make the entire wiki appear worthless to such casual visitors.

I realize that you have a different work approach: You work on broad projects with very many articles involved, and work them down one slice at a time, step by step. Which means dozens or hundreds of articles are in the middle of a re-write at the same time.

A suggestion: Perhaps it would help if you include {{inuse}} or {{underconstruction}}/{{WIP}} in the articles while you're working on them, to make it clear that there is work-in-progress going on. Frabby 11:36, 15 January 2012 (PST)

Thanks for clearing up this point.--Doneve 12:05, 15 January 2012 (PST)

Concerns

Frabby - Do me a favor and type "Objectiv Raids" into the search box. You will find dozens if not hundreds of articles edited by Neuling. Not only did he not spell it correctly, he didn't use italics, and the formatting is sometimes off as well. What concerns me more is that Neuling was told his edits were problematic, he expressed disregard for our concerns and is apparently continuing right along. So now Doneve, myself, or someone else needs to go clean it up. What concerns me even more than all of this is that this is not isolated. Virtually every change Neuling makes either disregards our format, has multiple errors, blatantly plagiarizes the books and/or other sites, completely disregards any aesthetic, etc. I could go on. None of this is the main problem. The problem is he doesn't care. He is convinced that throwing poorly-written, poorly-edited and poorly-cited material at the wiki makes it better. Most of us understand that it doesn't. But he doesn't listen. He doesn't learn. So I am formally asking the admins to look into the situation, and decide what measures should be taken. Because Neuling is not making Sarna better right now. He's giving ammunition to those in the BT community who consider our work to be crap. ClanWolverine101 07:24, 18 January 2012 (PST)

I agree full with ClanWolverines statement, i talked so often to him, give him links to the policies etc. but he don't follow anything, oh please take a look on this talk on Dmon's talk page, thanks.--Doneve 07:43, 18 January 2012 (PST)

We've had this discussion with him before, if memory serves. --Mbear^(talk) 11:52, 18 January 2012 (PST)

Have I made you admins angry?

I read the messages above and read to my suprise that clanwolverine consider my work a mess as a hole. I agree with you that my work was in the past not so good but please regard my work now. I listen to you and change my work like the references. I talk to you more often (If I wrong about it correct me please). My writting style has im proved and please tell me which of my work is considered plagarism and I will take it offline immedatly. I have no idea how I can calm the situation. Please response. Tnx Neuling 09:30, 18 January 2012 (PST)

My offer stands to delete all my contributions with the goal to protect the site when necessary. I wrote the messages to several admins to get a clear view about my situation and to take consequenzes when needed.Neuling 11:24, 18 January 2012 (PST)

Neuling, your offer is a classy one. To answer your question, no you haven't made me (as an admin) angry.

I would say I'm disappointed in your work. You provided a great deal of material, but it has consistently been poorly formatted and in many cases it disregarded the existing standards. This in turn made more work for other contributors. Other contributions you've made have been restatements of existing content that really don't add much to the wiki (e.g. the list of variants you were putting together earlier). It's disappointing because I think you could offer a lot of material to the site if only you could get it formatted correctly. --Mbear^(talk) 11:59, 18 January 2012 (PST)

It will take some time to remove all my contributions from that site but then you have a clean site wihtou the concern to get accused from outsiders to plagaris. I will start tomorrow and hopefully at the end of the months my material remove is done. With best regard Neuling 12:01, 18 January 2012 (PST)

Neuling - I am not an admin. But these problems we are speaking of are not in the past. They are current. The "Objectiv Raids" issue was no older than yesterday. I appreciate you correcting most of those, but there it is. Also : What the heck is this "manufacturing places" section in the Griffin article? While I might agree that this information is relevant and viable, the format and aesthetic are both poor. You did not, as far as I can tell, start a discussion on properly presenting this material. You simply threw the information up there, and then took it for granted that other people would clean it up for you. That is why Doneve and I (and others) are frustrated. Please clean it up. Thank you. ClanWolverine101 12:21, 18 January 2012 (PST)

Your right made the changes yesterday, not in the past. It was never my goal to throw information at the site and led other do the cleaning or formating. Again I apolizye to you and as I wrote above I will remove the content which is considered not worthy for that side. All other user talk alot to me and I don't listen to your advices. As a person with respect for the work of the community will delete my contribution, but that will take time and in the end I will request that my account will be delete after the purification of the site. You ask what the thought was behind the manufacturing places. I will try a last example before I redonve my work. Neuling 12:33, 18 January 2012 (PST)

Neuling, this isn't against you personally. It is against poor articles. People aren't upset because you are editing/writing articles, they are upset because your writing/editing is substandard. It's a bit like splashing paint at a canvas to start off, and then expecting somebody else to paint a picture.

Therefore, this is not about removing your articles, but about improving your work.
A few serious questions for you:

• Why do you not check your spelling and grammar before you edit or upload an article? 1st
• Why do you not follow the established format in your editing? 2nd
• Why do you upload incomplete articles? 3rd
• Why do people feel you plagiarize information? 4th
• What can be done to alleviate the aforementioned problems? 5th

Frabby 13:33, 18 January 2012 (PST)

1st - That was a point which was not on my mind. But should I ever again write articles for english related site I will follow your thought and perhaps I can do it this time better.

2nd - I was to enthusiatic and aknowledge to late that I must follow the common formating to be accepted by the rest of the community.

3rd - My thought was to start an article and feed it over the time with material like I had it done with many mercanery related articles which will be delete over the next few days. Often I was the only editor how put valuable information ,in my thought, at the site and find it difficult to discuss every time the need for the artcle. For excample: I created the page Brions Legion - regiments multiple times and find it a short time later flaged for deletion or that the content should be merged with the brigade page.

4th - That is a point which I hard to understand for me, because for the academie overview I used only the availble information and put it in to new shape. I doens't copy the content from the Classic Battletech Companion. The tables showed only an overview. I think even that format was considered plagarism by some users.

5th - I had only one solution: remove all my contributions, leave the side for good and use the site only for future reference as guest. Neuling 13:55, 18 January 2012 (PST)

Please don't stop contributing on sarna, but follow some concerns, we are glad to have you here, but when you stard a huge project stard at first a talk, we help you to put your content in the right formating but you must work with us, also don't stop your efforts on the wiki.--Doneve 14:02, 18 January 2012 (PST)

I will regard my decision.Neuling 14:11, 18 January 2012 (PST)

Request

Hello Frabby, I tried to change in the last few days my way of working and response immedatly to your advices. I hope my references are now in the formating that is widely aknowledged by the other user. I wait for your response. Neuling 00:15, 22 January 2012 (PST)

BTW is a team effort, so it is all about being a team player. Always, always ask yourself when you hit the "save" button: Is this edit/article really good enough, or is it full of errors so that somebody else will have to clean it up after me? That's the gist of it, really. As long as your contributions aren't considered counter-productive by other users, they're fine. Frabby 00:31, 22 January 2012 (PST)

SLDF Articles

Frabby - Great work with BrokenMnemonic and the SLDF articles. Have a . ClanWolverine101 08:17, 19 January 2012 (PST)

Thanks. :) Frabby 00:11, 22 January 2012 (PST)

Have the next

Hy Frabby, have your next award from me , thanks for the BattleCorps articles, i love it, ok most are stubs but the goal is to bring it on the wiki :)--Doneve 16:10, 21 January 2012 (PST)

Thanks for the award. Yes, as a first step I'm creating stub articles so that the stories have an at least somewhat informative wiki coverage. Once I'm done with the list, I'll fill in more stuff. I've been a BC subscriber since early 2009 and have bought a number of older stories from BattleShop. My goal is to show what data can be mined from each individual story -- BattleTech featured, world descriptions, notable events that people may be unawares of because they're not mentioned outside of that one short story, that kind of stuff. Frabby 00:11, 22 January 2012 (PST) (fixed typos)

Great, i love the short storys, i have also a couple of it, but iam not a fluff writer, the guys there write the storys (you to :)), do really good work.--Doneve 02:43, 22 January 2012 (PST)

Minor Factions/Groups

Hy Frappy, I'm interested to expande the minor factions content of the site, but have difficults how to incoporate that in the overall struture. Some factions like the mafia are multinational with huge influence in the under on the worlds. The yakuzas are linked with Draconis Combine and further I will wrote also over the Coterie an mysterious organization but which owns immense power. Neuling 03:14, 22 January 2012 (PST)

Good idea. I guess other examples would be the Exituri or the Dark Caste; many minor "factions" already have redlinks. I'm not sure if it is appropriate to describe these as factions, though: They have no territory, military, or even population of their own, but do have an agenda and defined membership, and exist within established factions. I would rather describe them as "organisations". There is no established article format, and I since they are so dissimilar from each other I don't think there can be one. As for incorporating them, just write a good article about them. Once the article is in place, I reckon links and crosslinks will spring up over time. Frabby 03:34, 22 January 2012 (PST)

CBT page

Hy, have you any info why the Classic BattleTech page and form is down.--Doneve 04:58, 25 January 2012 (PST)

? It doesn't seem to be down - I can access it with no problems. Mind that classicbattletech.com was abandoned with the recent switchover to the battletech.com portal; it remains as a redirect to the portal's boardgame section bg.battletech.com. That's also where the forum is, and has been, for a while. Check http://bg.battletech.com/forums/

Frabby 06:21, 25 January 2012 (PST)

Oh, i used a old link, thanks.--Doneve 06:28, 25 January 2012 (PST)

Unit Digest

Hy again, i stard to create Unit Digest command articles, ok there have at this time a stub status, i hope it is not worthy to create this, what you are think about this, i stard with the 22nd Coventry Medical Regiment.--Doneve 11:48, 25 January 2012 (PST)

Chronological Ordering of short stories

Frabby, I thought of something you might appreciate.
I print out the BC stories so that I may bind them in volumes and read them sans computer. I also do this chronologically, so that I'm reading them in order of occurrence. What I've done is renamed the files so that the date of first entry (in each story) comes before the story's name and then I grab a block of stories to print and bind the next volume.
I was thinking you might want to add a 'succession' tag to your stories, so that the reader knows what story preceded the current article and what follows. If that interests you at all, I'd be glad to provide you screen shots of my ordered files, so that you don't have to organize them yourself. Let me know if you're interested.--Revanche ^{(talk|contribs)} 05:39, 31 January 2012 (PST)

Personally, I don't think that sorting BC stories chronologically adds value, outside of serialized stories. Others might want to sort alphabetically, or by era or timeline, or by author. I'm not really opposed to the idea, I just think it's not worth the hassle for BTW. Especially as BattleCorps subscribers will have all their downloadable fiction sorted by publication date automatically on the site's Fiction section, and non-subscribers probably aren't interested in the sequence of publication anyways. As always, I'm open to good arguments to sway me to the other side. :) Frabby 06:28, 31 January 2012 (PST)

Nope, feel no need to sway you. I was inserting the four newest stories into my directories this morning and thought of you. It's available should you decide otherwise.

BTW, mine are ordered in-universe timeline, rather than RL release. -Revanche ^{(talk|contribs)} 07:50, 31 January 2012 (PST)

Please weigh in

Frabby - Please look at the current discussion on BattleTechWiki talk:Project Military Commands. Neuling made certain comments that I (and perhaps Doneve?) took offense to. In the wrong light, it could be seen as a threat against the wiki. I have made my feelings on it clear. If you believe my comments are overly-harsh, I would be willing to discuss the matter with you privately. But at this point, I am using the word "vandalism", and I believe we need an Admin to settle things down. I have made my feelings about Neuling's edits clear in the past, but I believe the main problem is that he refuses to learn. Please give it a look. Thank you. ClanWolverine101 09:17, 3 February 2012 (PST)

Remove of Category

Hello Frabby, please tell me why have you removed the category from Hinsdale Electronics. I can found the entry in Objectives Draconis Combine p. 19. I think it is good to know which manufacturer is locate in the specific state. For me it is easier to find special content.Neuling 13:40, 8 February 2012 (PST)

Tnx Neuling 13:46, 8 February 2012 (PST)

Oops, sorry - I must have clicked on "Undo" accidentially when I was browsing on several tabs. Didn't realize this until you mentioned it, and have just rolled it back. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Frabby 13:47, 8 February 2012 (PST)

Dates to awards

Looks like you and I had the same idea on the same date. In fact, when I got to your's, I was confused, as I hadn't realized I had added it already. Funny how things work. Best to ya. --Revanche ^{(talk|contribs)} 20:07, 12 February 2012 (PST)

Merge & Delete

Apparently it was very cathartic for you! --Revanche ^{(talk|contribs)} 04:14, 15 February 2012 (PST)

 :) And that was only the Blocked User list. I'll work down the proper user list eventually, but that's much more work because a lot have inconspicious names and need to be verified as spammers before I can delete them. But I really want to have a clean user list with only "real" users on it, to gauge how successful BTW really is. Frabby 04:26, 15 February 2012 (PST)

I'm with you on that. How do you intend to deal with registrants that have not ever edited?

Before Nic added the Questy Captcha, I tested the block routine. There is no way for a person to notify us (here) when they've been acccidentally blocked, as they can't edit their own page, the talk of page of any user or email us. In fact, all they get when they try to edit is a page error (no notification of the block). I can't rule out we've blocked some 'false positives', i.e., people who wanted to register but found the page error instead. I'm hoping the merge function of Merge & Delete removes the IP block that applies to the blocking of a registered (presumed) violator. With that assumption, I plan on posting on the BT forums about the recent changes and asking anyone who registered yet kept get page errors to try again or contact any of the admins via their BT forum inboxes.--Revanche ^{(talk|contribs)} 07:02, 15 February 2012 (PST)

Les Dorshied & Doug Andersen

Hey, Frabby. When I attributed those two covers to their respective artists, I spelled them as they were shown on the Credits pages. Do we have different spellings for them elsewhere? (If so, I'll make a note of the mis-spellings at the appropriate pages.)--Revanche ^{(talk|contribs)} 09:38, 18 February 2012 (PST)

User_talk:Revanche#Les_Dorshied_or_Les_Dorscheid Frabby 12:34, 18 February 2012 (PST)

Buchlau

Evening Frabby why you undo my revion on the Buchlau page??? I set it back.--Doneve 11:53, 2 March 2012 (PST)

I did? Oops, sorry. Wasn't intentional. Seriously, I must have accidentially hit "rollback" on my IPhone while browsing the recent changes. Still learning the ropes here. Frabby 01:12, 3 March 2012 (PST)

Re: Shaidan Basin

• Compromise idea--Revanche ^{(talk|contribs)} 19:50, 14 March 2012 (PDT)

onlyinclude tags

Do not remove <onlyinclude> tags. Doing so will break transclusion. --Neufeld 00:29, 24 March 2012 (PDT)

For your review: Delta Regiment

Delta Regiment (Wolf's Dragoons) is up. Obviously, a lot of work went into this one.
As usual, thanks go out to Doneve, who uploaded several images that were ultimately used. Obviously, the pics add a lot to this article, and keep it from becoming just a mindless block of text.
One of my goals with this project was to improve upon the design of my Alpha Regiment (Wolf's Dragoons) article. To that end, I've streamlined several processes, most notably the reference tags, using what's become the accepted approach. In short, I updated my own style. While it took a lot of time, I think it went okay.
As you can see above, I've written a number of articles about Delta's commanding officers and so on. This means I can reuse some of that material when I write a comprehensive article like this one. As it turned out, the writing still needed to be massaged, but if that wasn't the case, I would have been doing something wrong. Nevertheless, its easier to write a bunch of small articles before trying to put together a beast like this.
When I decided to write comprehensive articles on each of the WD regiments, I always knew Alpha would be my first and Delta my second. There were two reasons, there: First, Delta has a lot of extra material on it from its involvement in the Coventry campaign. Second, Delta avoided the Dragoon Civil War/Elson's Challenge (popularized in Wolf Pack). That particular event will prove very difficult to cover, as it exists only in broad terms in the sourcebooks and we only get certain perspectives in the WP novel. But that's a talk for another day.
For now, please enjoy reading about Delta Regiment. Thanks, and I look forward to your feedback. ClanWolverine101 16:10, 1 June 2012 (PDT)

Death Commandos

Hi Frabby. I'm just getting on with some more Jihad timeline edits and I noticed that you interjected the phrase "(It remains unclear if that "rescue" occurred with the subject's consent.)" after one of the edits I made last night. At the moment, I'm working from the Jihad timeline in Jihad: Final Reckoning, which contains a brief precis of events only, and your comment falls in between a cited reference to the timeline and another statement with reference from the same summary timeline set several years later that I added a few weeks ago. The fact that your interjection doesn't come with a reference makes it look as it if's a part of the second sentence, despite neither of the citations for those two references matching what you said either - can you add a reference for your comment, please? I'm guessing it comes from whichever of the Jihad books covers the Death Commando raid on New Syrtis, but I'm working from the timeline, rather than the longer fluff entries, because I want to try and get a complete timeline on here as quickly as possible before I go back to start fleshing entries out. BrokenMnemonic 04:07, 17 June 2012 (PDT)

Sorry BM, didn't want to interrupt any ongoing editing. I've not been able to find a reference either - I think the question whether Kai Allard-Liao even wanted to be "rescued" by Capellan Death Commandos was brought up on either the CBT forums or in a BattleChat session, with the implication that no, he probably didn't consent.

Thinking about this a bit more, this particular bit of information doesn't neccessarily belong into an article about the Death Commandos, so perhaps it is best removed. Feel free to edit it out. Frabby 13:44, 17 June 2012 (PDT)

OK, I've removed the comment. I have actually finished editing the timeline now, as at about 2 minutes ago - it's taken me a month or two, but every entry in "The Jihad In Review" timeline summary in Jihad: Final Reckoning that I can find a way to incorporate into Sarna is now here, all 17 pages of them. The exceptions are those areas where I would have to sit down and write a new (and huge) article to incorporate them - specific examples being things like the Allied Coalition campaign to take Terra, or the history of the Capellan Confederation. Everything else is done. Depending on how my sanity holds up, I'm debating starting back with Blake Ascending and slowly fleshing out the true articles (and making reference to the false ones), or spending some time chilling out with updating more planet histories before I try another big project of one kind or another. Given that the Jihad Timeline articles are the Jihad details TPTB have said are true, even if they aren't complete, it felt important to get them on Sarna somehow so that we had at least the basic detail on the Jihad in place. BrokenMnemonic 07:10, 19 June 2012 (PDT)

Rev

Frabby - You know what's up with Rev? ClanWolverine101 23:50, 29 June 2012 (PDT)

I got an email from him the other day. He found himself travelling a lot unexpectedly, with poor internet access. Frabby 00:02, 30 June 2012 (PDT)

Okay, cool. Just worried about him. ClanWolverine101 00:30, 30 June 2012 (PDT)

Spam

Hy Frabby, i notice in the last day's, this damn spambot attacks, you delete on, in an half or an full hour we have both more attacks, how we can handle this.--Doneve 16:29, 1 July 2012 (PDT)

Not sure. I'm just an admin, not a bureaucrat; all I can do is to merge & delete the spambot accounts. Not sure if that automatically blocks the IP though. I'll try to remember to block the user and his IP next time before deleting an account. Frabby 01:36, 2 July 2012 (PDT)

Are the IP addresses indicative of an .az or .ga? Moderating at my other site, we noticed that was the pattern. Azerbaijan and Georgia have virtually no laws limiting what people can do on the internet. We unfortunately had to block all IP's from those two nations, but it dramatically cut down spam. I know the mission here is for anyone to edit these pages, and that would be preferable, it's an unsolicited suggestion that's all. --Rebs 01:03, 5 July 2012 (PDT)

I'm pretty much a black box user. I have no clue how to block an IP range, or if I'm even empowered to do so as a BTW admin (as opposed to bureaucrat). Better bring this up with NicJ. Frabby 01:12, 5 July 2012 (PDT)

I´m also activ on X-Wiki (http://x-lexikon.xibo.at/wiki/index.php/Hauptseite), a german Wiki project on the X-Space-Sims. We had the exact same problem there. And we handled it by asking the new user a simple question (like: what river runs through vienna/danube), some simple common knowlage things. works wonders! greetings Heretic1311 01:17, 14 July 2012 (PDT)

We currently require unregistered editors to answer a question about BattleTech. They're getting around it by registering. Asking newly registered users to do the same might be helpful. Thanks. --Scaletail 09:21, 14 July 2012 (PDT)

Carlyle's Commandos

Hi Frabby, only now I saw your changes of the Carlyle's Commandos article (from march :-) ) and I have to say that I don't agree with many of them. I don't talk about them being Mercs or House units (though I am still not convinced), but I pretty sure it is clearly stated, that they consist of a lance of Mechs and not of a company. And why did you remove the info about their DropShip, described in Decision at Thunder Rift? Cheers, Harry 12:06, 5 July 2012 (PDT)

Carlyle's Commandos is expressly described as a "combined-arms mercenary force consisting of a BattleMech company and several platoons of infantry" when the events from Decision at Thunder Rift are recapped upon introducing Hassid Ricol in The Price of Glory, page 192 as referenced in my edits.

As for a DropShip, I'm not aware of any mentioning of a DropShip owend by Carlyle's Commandos. By the time Grayson Carlyle meets with Renfred Tor, Captain of the Invidious, Carlyle's Commandos don't exist anymore. Tor and his ship serve the Gray Death Legion, but not Carlyle's Commandos. Or did I miss anything? Frabby 13:10, 5 July 2012 (PDT)

Tor and his ships were the transport of Ricols bandits. The survivers of Carlyle's Commandos escaped with their ship (Page 54 of Decision at Thunder Rift has the best describtion, as was referenced in my edits).

I don't have "Price of Glory" at hand, but in "Thunder Rift", as well as in the Gray Death Legion (scenario pack), they are explicitly stated as a lance of Mechs (countless times in fact) and all of them are introduced. I suppose the later novel talks about the Commandos as a whole, including the BattleMech lance. Harry 13:43, 5 July 2012 (PDT)

To wit, Tor was affiliated with the pirates, not with Carlyle's Commandos. He joined forces with Grayson only after the Commandos had been destroyed in the initial attack. As for lance vs. company, good point about the scenario. Seeing as we have conflicting information, I'll see if I can get an answer from the BT Line Developer on this. Thanks for pointing it out! :) Frabby 13:56, 5 July 2012 (PDT)

Good Idea! Maybe the developers can also explain, if the Commandos are Mercs or a House unit after all.Harry 14:12, 5 July 2012 (PDT)

Year Pages

Hey Frabby, thought I would ask an admin before I did anything on this subject. This is regarding the timeline of the years pages during the eras. I was wondering if you would want someone to go through each year and add the template that was discussed in the Policy:Year Pages. I was looking through the policy and didn't see anything about adding the template to create blank pages that others could then go into to add information for the years. I also didn't know if it would be frowned upon to just add blank year pages, but there are blank pages already in existence. For example 3096 is a pure blank page with the template. I thought about doing this when I was browsing the List of Wanted Pages and found some years that were needed. I was thinking that this would eliminate any future years from the wanted section. DerangedShadow 07:14, 12 July 2012 (PDT)

I'm in two minds about this. For one, as you figured, blank or placeholder pages are frowned upon; but in the special case of year pages I think it may make more sense than elsewhere. Also, although I don't agree with it I have to admit that there has been a drive here to create empty or near-empty pages "so that others can fill in". Most of the time they remain blank pages, which is a bad thing. But like I said, Year pages may be a sensible exception to make. So, by all means, go ahead. ;) Frabby 09:31, 12 July 2012 (PDT)

Alright, I shall start off from the era pages with the year 1950 and go to about 3150 in the Dark Ages. Farthest that I know of anything that could possibly happen. DerangedShadow 09:55, 12 July 2012 (PDT)

I'm not entirely up to date on the Dark Age stuff, but the last scene of A Bonfire of Worlds is set 14 September 3143 - I think that's the latest date covered in published BattleTech canon to date. Frabby 11:43, 12 July 2012 (PDT)

Knights Defensors

Hy Frabby, i want to create a Knights Defensor unit article from the [Unit Digest: Knights of Defensor] pdf, in which category put i the page, is it a Independent unit or or.--Doneve 14:45, 15 July 2012 (PDT)

Puh, good call. I think "independent unit" may be the most appropriate, yes. Frabby 01:01, 16 July 2012 (PDT)

Thanks for killing worthless spammers.

Frabby,

Here's your sixth vandal cop award. Thanks for killing those worthless spammer bots.--Mbear^(talk) 03:22, 31 July 2012 (PDT)

I put a post on Contact the Admins page about how to cut back on all these spam accounts, but didn't get a response there. Basically, Nic or whoever has FTP access needs to edit the LocalSettings.php file and make up new questions and answers for registering and making edits to the page. Changing those questions occasionally will dramatically cut back on all this spam. Otherwise, here's a preemptive congrats on the 7th award!--Seth 15:21, 1 August 2012 (PDT)

Unknown Planets

• snip* Who'd have thought that planetary histories would be such a busy subject? BrokenMnemonic 11:54, 11 August 2012 (PDT)
• snip* :Frabby 13:58, 11 August 2012 (PDT)

You've both made good points. I've made the Unknown Planet and No Record pages redirect to BattleTechWiki:Project Planets/Unknown Planet or No record, per Frabby's suggestion, and included the definitions BrokenMnemonic provided above. Hopefully that will meet everyone's criteria. (Basically I was tired of seeing the two appearing in the WantedPages list. Sorry about the confusion.)--Mbear^(talk) 05:07, 13 August 2012 (PDT)

User talk:84.169.127.148

Hi Frabby,

I'm possibly being a tad paranoid here, but as our resident ambassador, could I ask you to keep a weather eye on the user talk here? User talk:84.169.127.148 It's the user talk for an anonymous editor that's made a citationless statement on the AFFS page a couple of times that's been reverted, for being uncited and largely opinion. Bearing in mind the kerfuffle over the Davion Guards edits that were being made, I'm a little worried that we've got another anonymous editor who's operating under the belief that Sarna is the place to argue their theories for and issues with the BattleTech universe, rather than a place to record canon information. There've been comments made about the ratings of the AFFS being based on "FIAT", that the RATs in FM:U form a basis for judgement on tech levels and that those tech levels are economically unaffordable for the Federated Suns and therefore obviously wrong. I've posted a comment that's probably unreasonably long over on that talk page trying to highlight the neutral point of view policy here and the need to have errors in canon confirmed by TPTB over on the CGL forum rather than making value judgements and posting them as fact, but I'm conscious that I'm still a newbie here and that I'm no where near as reasonable as you when it comes to explaining the purpose of the wiki and it's boundaries. I don't think you need to jump in and comment, but I'd be a lot more comfortable if you were keeping an eye on the conversation there to make sure none of us is out of line or misrepresenting Sarna. BrokenMnemonic 10:48, 21 August 2012 (PDT)

Thanks for the notification. I'm already watching the discussion, but so far everything seems fine. Frabby 12:39, 21 August 2012 (PDT)

Well, I'm evidently wasting my time in that particular conversation. I think this is the same individual who provoked some arguments over on the Davion Brigade of Guards page a little while ago, and while I'm not ready to shout "troll!" yet, he does seem determined to use Sarna as his own little BattleTech soapbox while ignoring anything anyone says that disagrees with him. I think you're going to have fun with this guy. BrokenMnemonic 09:46, 27 August 2012 (PDT)

I just wanted to throw a quick word in here. I'm pretty new to the Sarna site as a editor. I just wanted to make sure that I made the correct response. When I saw that the edit to the AFFS page wasn't from a neutral point of view and reverted the edit. When I saw it was edited once again by the same person I responded to the editor and changed the article back to its original form once again. Was this the right thing to do, or should I wait for someone with a little more heft around around here to make a decision?

— The preceding unsigned comment was posted by DeSaints (talk • contribs) .

I've always tried to make a point of treating all editors and all opinions equal, be they anonymous IPs, registered users, or admins editing (and not "adminning"). You explained your point well, as did the unregistered user. Although he does have a point of sorts I agree with your analysis of the situation - we're looking at a statement representing a snapshot in time that is unsuitable for generalization. Proper decorum was observed on the talk page, and I'm all happy with things as they stand.

On another note, you mentioned trouble with logging in. Care to explain? Maybe I can help. If you've forgotten your password then I can simply delete your user account so that you can re-register, although mind that will also erase your track record here. Frabby 23:35, 21 August 2012 (PDT)

When I attempted to login to my account the system kept telling me I had an incorrect password, considering I had the password copied down I know I didn't have it wrong. When I attempted to have the password emailed to myself the system said I had already asked for that information within the last 24 hours, which I had not done, and wouldn't send it again. So, i'm somewhat stonewalled at the moment but I figured I'd give it a few days and try signing in again. If it doesn't work I'll do as you suggest and simply re-register, won't be too much trouble for me. — The preceding unsigned comment was posted by DeSaints (talk • contribs) .

Off-site Links

Frabby - Remind me how to set up an external link? Its for a question I had answered on the CB forum. Thanks. ClanWolverine101 13:00, 11 September 2012 (PDT)

Hope I'm not causing offense by dropping in uninvited, but I use external links quite a bit here - I've got a load set up in my user page, reflecting questions I've asked over in the CGL forum, and the responses I've had (or not). I also tend to quote specific sections of responses in related articles here in Sarna... the list on my userpage might help you (you can view the code by editing the page, I think) or by editing any of the pages with embedded quotes from me in. Hope that helps BrokenMnemonic 13:14, 11 September 2012 (PDT)

That works. Thanks! ClanWolverine101 14:30, 13 September 2012 (PDT)

Late to the show... sorry. Glad this was already cleared up. By the way, please don't cite external links as references if you can help it (I've seen this being done with links to the MUL, for example) - instead, refer to an article here on Sarna BTW whenever possible. Relevant stuff from external pages should be copied over to the article's talk page if possible. Frabby 05:57, 14 September 2012 (PDT)

BattleCorps

Hy Frabby, i started to add some featured places and characters to the BattleCorps Storys, please can you take a look on End of Message, if i work on the right way.--Doneve 13:39, 12 September 2012 (PDT)

Looks good! :) Frabby 05:57, 14 September 2012 (PDT)

Thanks!

Frabby, thanks for your help with my latest bonehead move. --Mbear^(talk) 12:52, 26 September 2012 (PDT)

Jardine

Frabby, you've added a lot of detail to the Jardine page, and while it looks right to me from what I remember, you've not added any references or citations. Given that we keep getting lampooned on the CGL forum for making things up here, could you add your sources for the history details, just in case? BrokenMnemonic (talk) 01:41, 3 October 2012 (PDT)

You're right. I have earmarked the article for some serious copyediting, I just ran across it during my drive to add local fauna links to individual worlds and wanted to remedy the worst errors and omissions (mostly by myself in fact, based on the misunderstanding that Herakleione was really a planet and not just a made-up name for coverup). Frabby (talk) 04:15, 3 October 2012 (PDT)

I've tidied up the categories associated with Jardine and reformatted the Herakleion redirect page to match the format used in the other three dozen or so articles we've got for planets that have undergone name changes at one time or another; while Jardine's name was altered as part of a coverup, we don't have detailed reasons for the vast majority of the other name changes, so it makes sense to make them homogenous and let the text of the planet history explain the change if needed rather than try and distinguish Jardine from all the others, possibly erroneously, via the categories. (Yes, I have spent waaaaaay too much time categorising planet articles and histories.) BrokenMnemonic (talk) 07:21, 3 October 2012 (PDT)

BattleCorps Ship Profiles

Hiya, saw your edits to the ship profiles re: capitalisations. I was going to revert it, but thought perhaps we should have a discussion first because I can totally see where you're coming from. Please drop in at Talk:BattleCorps Ship Profiles Frabby (talk) 14:05, 4 October 2012 (PDT)

Responded on that page.--Mbear^(talk) 05:20, 5 October 2012 (PDT)

Fanon

Hy Frabby, can you take a look on this new created page Harlequin Corps, this is fanon, what we do with this page?.--Doneve (talk) 08:16, 6 October 2012 (PDT)

User deletion

Hy Frabby, a new user, i don't know his username, was last night or so accidently deleted, he expand very well the MechWarrior II page.--Doneve (talk) 13:36, 9 October 2012 (PDT)

Yeah, saw it a few seconds too late. The user was named Black Yoshi1230, and I have left a message in the "minor news" section. Again. Spambots hurt this wiki in more ways than one. :( Frabby (talk) 05:27, 10 October 2012 (PDT)

Nice Work

Your write ups on the Cherry Tree stories by Mr. Mohan are excellent. I'll definitely have to check those out very soon. --Rebs (talk) 05:01, 24 October 2012 (PDT)

Tanks! It's one of the best stories on BC in my opinion, and the first one (both parts of it) can even be downloaded for free on battlecorps.com while the second is only available in that print anthology. Frabby (talk) 08:14, 24 October 2012 (PDT)

Battle InfoBox

Frabby - Regarding the Battle InfoBox, is there anyway we could modify it to look more like the ones wikipedia uses for real-world battles? Wiki the 'Battle of Waterloo' for example. How hard would it be to change the code to look like this? Thanks. ClanWolverine101 (talk) 10:11, 28 October 2012 (PDT)

Do we even have a Battle InfoBox yet? I haven't been able to find such a template here on a (admittedly brief) search. Can you point me there please?

That said, sure, the template can be created or modified to your heart's desire. Myself, I'm a total coding noob. Whenever I work on templates, I tend to look at how existing templates do stuff and copy over the code... Frabby (talk) 04:48, 29 October 2012 (PDT)

Hy guys, Mbear (code profi) can help with the new template.--Doneve (talk) 08:33, 29 October 2012 (PDT)

Frabby - for reference, please see the Battle for the Imperial Palace (3068). Rev was using these for his Unfinished Book project. ClanWolverine101 (talk) 11:47, 29 October 2012 (PDT)

Ah, okay. It's Template:InfoBoxConflict. I'll share my thoughts on Template talk:InfoBoxConflict when I have some time. Frabby (talk) 05:29, 30 October 2012 (PDT)

Frabby, please have a look at User:Mbear/PlanetPageTest. I've got a prototype for the updated infobox up and running. I'd like to hear your thoughts. Thanks!--Mbear^(talk) 07:24, 2 November 2012 (PDT)

Spammers

When I was looking at the recent changes, I saw that you deleted Football2 and blocked him, and right after that he posted more spam anyway. These guys are crazy persistent, and I hope we can stamp them all out one way or another in the future. --Rebs (talk) 15:25, 1 November 2012 (PDT)

Carlyle's Shuttle

Hey Frabby, weren't you the one who deleted my reference to the Leopard Dropship of the Carlyle Commandos early this year? No offence taken, i am glad it is back up! Continue your awesome work! Harry (talk) 15:19, 26 November 2012 (PST)

Rev 2

Frabby - Any more news on Rev? I miss him. ClanWolverine101 (talk) 08:59, 4 December 2012 (PST)

I miss him too, but sadly I have no new information whatsoever. I suppose he'll be back when his time and job permit it. Frabby (talk) 06:47, 5 December 2012 (PST)

Individual Ships Template

Hi Frabby,

I've put together an infobox template I think should hopefully be suitable for use with articles on individual WarShips. As soon as I can work out how to upload it/create the temple here on Sarna, I'll get it uploaded for your review. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 04:15, 17 December 2012 (PST)

ETA: Ok, I think I've got it uploaded. At the moment, all of the fields bar the reference year and the ship name are optional, to make the template as flexible as possible. My intent was that the infobox could be used multiple times in a single page if needed, where we know a ship has been in service with multiple navies/organizations and commanding officers. An example of that might be something like a named ship from Historical: Liberation of Terra where we know the name of the ship, fleet and the CO in the battle to liberate Terra, and then later we know the same ship was in service with Clan Snow Raven under a particular Star Admiral within the Swift Wing Pursuit Star or something similar. Where all we know is that the ship served in different services - such as the Terran Alliance navy, Hegemony navy and Star League Defence Force navy, I'd expect that information to go in the article.

Equally, the ISD and OSD dates are intended to be flexible - they could be the date that Clan Coyote recommissioned the ship and then the date they lost it to the Snow Ravens, followed by another infobox detailing when Clan Snow Raven brought the ship into service and the date it was destroyed above Dyev. Equally, it might just be the date the ship was destroyed at Espilon Eridani during the Hegemony liberation campaign, if that's all that's known - although again, I'd expect the text of the article to provide clarity if needed.

Does the template look ok to you? I've tried placing a sample in the article on the TAS Dreadnought. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 04:53, 17 December 2012 (PST)

Ah well, might as well discuss this here.

My idea for the template was to keep it brief, and collate only "hard" information on it, i.e. factoids that aren't bound to change. Remember that some ships are around literally for centuries. History stuff (name, affiliation, CO, etc.) is poorly suited for infoboxes and should always go into the article text instead. I have always hated Infoboxes with a given reference year with a vengeance, as they will be wrong for any other time period and therefore hardly relevant.

Also, I'd suggest to name it "InfoBoxIndividualVessel" so that the same infbox template can be used for individual WarShips, JumpShips, DropShips, Small Craft and Space Stations.

My suggestion for the infobox would be to include (only) image, last known name, type, class, date of launch, date of destruction/decommissioning.

That would mean the following should be removed from your template: refyear, CO, formation. We're missing type (e.g. WarShip, DropShip, Space Station).

Frabby (talk) 05:29, 17 December 2012 (PST)

I have amended the template as instructed, although I also added a few new fields to allow for tracking up to two name changes within the template. I generated the Blake's Sword article to test the template and updated the Dreadnought article to match. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 07:25, 18 December 2012 (PST)

The in service date line seem to imply when the ship "Blakes Blood" was first in service with the WoB rather than when it was first commissioned. You can add a supplemental box below the info box for all named ships that served under dfferent nations and names. It can include when they served with different nations, those dates and under what name.--Seth (talk) 08:09, 18 December 2012 (PST)