User talk:Scaletail

Archive 1 (Dec. 2006-Sep. 2007) includes welcomes, as well as discussions about the list of Davion rulers and why there is confusion between Blue Diamond and Menkent.

Archive 2 (Oct. 2007-Feb. 2008) includes responses to welcomes, an explanation of the difference between the Marauder IIC and the Marauder II C, my opinion on linking from manufacturing center articles, becoming a SysOp, a discussion concerning the consensus policy, years & the timeline, usage of .svg files, and the reason that red-linked categories give that weird message at the top.

ROM operative

Hy there, it seem that you a syops and currently active. I'm interested in joining and contributing in this wiki but I have to make two questions first.

I played Battletech a couple of times a long, long time ago. To be honest in the city I live no one that I know of plays Battletech with figures anymore (I might be mistaken). I think that the computers (and the computer games) finished this phase largely off. Honestly I don't remember anything about the game system, rules, mechs, etc. I don't have any of the manuals, house/Clan sourcebooks. I don't have any novel or otherwise, and I only played the "Crescent Hawks Inception" and "Mechwarrior 1" (I said that it was a long time ago). However I'm very fascinated by politics and history. I would focus more upon these subjects (the individual states, factions, and major politicians and military leaders). Are these facts a problem?

I need to know what are the current rules about copying stuff from Wikipedia and the official site "Classic Battletech". Can we simply copy everything word for word (AFAIK Wikipedia doesn't have a problem with that but the official site could be more problematic) or can we base our edits upon these page while we don't copy its texts?

Please answer these two questions "here". Thanks 82.155.92.145 11:57, 5 April 2008 (CDT)

First, thanks for both your interest and for reading enough here to understand the basics about how things work. To answer your questions, many articles here were originally copied from Wikipedia (which subsquently deleted or trimmed many of those articles). Since both WP and BTW are published under the GNU, information can be copied freely between them, however, credit must be given (this is the purpose of our Wikipedia template). To your second question, we cannot copy information from any other website. That does not mean that CBT.com cannot be used as a source and linked to, but copying it word-for-word would be considered plagiarism and would be deleted. Thanks for your interest here and I hope you stick around.

P.S. You may want to check out http://www.commandohq.com and see if there are any registered players or Commandos in your area. --Scaletail 12:06, 5 April 2008 (CDT)

The following happens: an article is copied from Wikipedia, and due credit is given (proper template is used). However the article is later improved. Must the template stay or can it replaced by a normal link? ROM operative 14:02, 5 April 2008 (CDT)

I leave the template there. This is something that I'm not 100% sure of, not being a lawyer, so I just let it be. The template states that the article is "based on" the WP article, implying that they should not be completely the same. --Scaletail 14:24, 5 April 2008 (CDT)

Well, I'm finished for today. I choose to focus myself upon Aleksandr Kerensky (funny I remembered his name as "Alexander", memory fades and all that :). I simply looked around in a couple of articles and gathered all information in a single text, creating a detailed text. I got the figure of "6 million ppl" from the official CBT site. I think that the article is much better and acceptable (but there is always place for further improvements). I plan to follow more or less this trend and schema and to improve some articles (about major figures, factions, realms, etc) from time to time. Please take a look and tell me honestly what you think.

Another thing: some realms/bandit kingdoms of the Periphy don't have a proper article. However I found an article (actually it is a Wolfnet report) which details half a dozen realms. I suppose that I can cut the information and (thereby creating the proper article) place it on its proper place? Or are we supposed to leave all reports as they are (original texts of the sourcebooks) ? ROM operative 19:13, 5 April 2008 (CDT)

If I don't edit your changes, that means I like them ;-). Please, add more! There are a lot of places that BTW needs help, and major people/factions are incredibly important. If I understand the second section correctly, you want to add a new article based on an official source. Please do not copy information directly from sourcebooks. Just like with info on CBT.com, it will be considered plagiarism and deleted. There are some special cases concerning articles that were actually here before this site became a wiki, and we're working out just what place they have here. Please, use those articles as sources to write your own article. I consider the history section up to the end of the Second Succession War of Draconis Combine a good example of a way to write an article (all info came from the original House Kurita sourcebook). --Scaletail 21:52, 5 April 2008 (CDT)

I've failed to explain the issue properly. This wiki has the article Bandit Kingdom which gives some information about several factions/Bandit kingdoms. The article seems to be a Wolfnet report (I don't know if it was simply copied or not). My doubt is if we can copy (or 'cut') the relevant information about a single faction (kingdom) from this article and create the proper page of the particular kingdom in question or not. Much more later (as all the bandit kingdoms get their own page/article) the article Bandit Kingdom could be reformed. Who knows? Perhaps there is a policy of leaving the Wolfnet reports as they are. ROM operative 23:26, 5 April 2008 (CDT)

I understand. Start a discussion on the article's talk page (click the "discussion" tab) suggesting the split. Since that's a pretty big change, it would be better to see what the other members of the community have to say before going forward with it. --Scaletail 09:42, 6 April 2008 (CDT)

I'm largely finished with the article of Aleksandr Kerensky. There is always room for more improvements, but I think that plenty information has been gathered already. There are just three things of which I'm not sure (don't forget that I don't own any books or novels). 1st) the titles of the guy given by the House Lords: one of them seems to be Regent of the Star League but I'm not so sure about the other. I have found several versions. My bet that it was single title "Regent and Protector of the Star League" instead of two separate ones. 2nd) Sometime ago I read that he sent a message to the Inner Sphere during Operation Exodus but now I'm unable to find anything. 3rd) During the mutiny of some ships the general issued a certain order I vaguely recall that it had a certain title and that the order would later used and adopted by the Clans. I'm going to search a little longer but then I'm going to find a new target. ROM operative 12:48, 6 April 2008 (CDT)

Thank you so much for the improvements you've done. Please, check out WikiProject Biographies and consider signing up if you plan on continuing to improve articles on characters. You may also wish to have a look at the template we use to standardize the look of character articles. As far as your questions, 1) the title sounds about right. 2) He did send a message -- it was in one of the List of BattleTech novels#novels written by Thomas Gressman -- probably the second of his in the Twilight of the Clans series. 3) He did, and while the Clans adopted the general principles, they did not adopt the name -- I also cannot remember its title off-hand. --Scaletail 14:03, 6 April 2008 (CDT)

Heeeeeee (how am I gonna say this so that you don't crush me like a bug? :). I've decided to be bold. I hope that you like two two results and forgive me but I think that these steps are simply unavoidable. Major and minor powers and factions would (and should) get their own articles. Plenty of links existed already to the Marian Hegemony and also to the Circinus Federation. The article Bandit Kingdom also seemed to be a report of a sourcebook (a copy of original material, but I may be mistaken) and it is simply better not to strain the copyright laws (NO, this isn't a veiled threat and I'm not a stupid lawyer, I'm just giving you my honest opinion). The article Bandit Kingdom should rather present general statements about all the kingdoms, combined with a average view from the Inner Sphere, and a comprehensive list. I'm planning to migrate the remaining paragraphs of the report towards to the proper articles slowly and carefully. You gotta trust on this one. ROM operative 19:35, 7 April 2008 (CDT)

Images

Hi Scaletail ! I saw you always find images for articles. I wanted to ask you where you can find those, as I sometimes hardly find some (just like the Manteuffel tank). Thanks --FIVE-one 08:27, 4 May 2008 (CDT)

They're actually on Sarna, but in the image archive, not the wiki. Click on "Media" under "Downloads," then "images," followed by "product scans," then "tro scans." From there, select the type of unit. --Scaletail 18:22, 4 May 2008 (CDT)

Wow, good source. I did not know it existed, until now. Should pictures be copied from the download section to the wiki in order to use them, or otherwise what is the path to include them in wiki articles? Frabby 04:40, 5 May 2008 (CDT)

I think the way to use those is the same as images contained in wiki articles, as, from my opinion, when you add the |image=image_name.image_format markup, you indicate the wiki to find in the downloads/image directory. Remember this is only an hypothesis. --FIVE-one

I testes my hypothesis : it is false. I watched the Manteuffel article, as it uses one of those images, but it only indicate the file name like other upload. I think you need to download the image, ad upload in the wiki. --FIVE-one

That's exactly correct. I might leave a note for Nic to see if he can manage a mass transfer. I also use chaosmarch.com and sometimes take the images straight from the PDFs I have. --Scaletail 17:55, 5 May 2008 (CDT)

Marian Hegemony

I recently revamped the article on the Marian Hegemony. I would appreciate it if you could take a look at it. --Workerbee 22:09, 20 May 2008 (CDT)

Vandalism

If someone creates a whole new page for the express purpose of vandalism, how do I get rid of the page entirely? I've noticed that if you remove all content, it still stays as an article. --Workerbee 16:52, 31 May 2008 (CDT)

Tag it with {{Deletion}} and an admin will delete the page. --Scaletail 22:31, 31 May 2008 (CDT)

Stellar Cartography overhaul

was: Incorrect system coordinates

You said on Talk:Gotterdammerung that you are collecting a list of corrected coordinates for Nic. Now Workerbee found another misplaced system, Hunan. See details on my talk page. Frabby 06:03, 1 June 2008 (CDT)

Major overhaul required?

I recently acquired some sourcebooks like The Periphery, and the number of systems that are not yet on this wiki is very large and growing. Plus, some are misplaced with coordinates. Is there any chance that we can do a complete automatic re-creation of the "neighbours" maps which I totally love, from a vastly updated list of systems? And how would that affect articles like Suk II or Kaifeng? Would it be possible to copy the file of coordinates from another site, namely the Teamspam IS Atlas?

Generally, stellar cartography in the BT universe is a total mess. For one, they never distinguished between systems and planets therein, something that absolutely needs to be done on this wiki imho. The systems should be sorted by system name, with redirects to the system from individual planets.

Then there is the garbled canonicity issue. We have weird or seemingly contradicting info in primary canon (on Algol, for example). We have a very detailed and insightful yet non-canonical description of the Weisau system (in BattleTechnology #1). We have the non-canonical information that Novo Cressidas, the inhabited planet in the Star's End system, was destroyed around the year 3050 (Fallout comics, I managed to acquire issues #0 and #1). Unfortunately, it seems such information is not entirely non-canon either. I still say we need to hammer out a Canon policy (and a page that collects all the info!). Frabby 06:02, 29 June 2008 (CDT)

I agree. I cannot do much about it, however, as the pages were autogenerated. When I get some time in the next couple of weeks I might gather the data together for the Periphery worlds (link me, please). I started on some of the Marian worlds, but it's really not appropriate to try something of that complexity by hand. For my part, I think compiling data on planets could be the one thing that really catapults BTW into the mainstream for BT fans, and even authors. Similarly, I plan to revisit the canon issue soon. --Scaletail 21:26, 29 June 2008 (CDT)

The data for the auto-generated planets was actually from the Teamspam IS Atlas -- namely, the prsc all eras.dat file here. If you want to update the table in that file, I can regenerate some of the maps.

The big problem is, at this point, some of the auto-generated planets have been edited. It would be hard to update these planets without wiping out the extra edits. I could probably edit the coordinates (since they're clearly wrong right now and are in an easy format to make sure no other edits were made). It would just take a bit of care to make sure it was done right. Anyways, if you have the energy to update the .dat file, send it over to me and I will work on regenerating the pages automagically. Nicjansma 13:17, 5 July 2008 (CDT)

Nice file! However, just a start to work from. I have briefly looked over the file, and come up with the following so far:

• Mica is a single system with several inhabited planets (as far as I know). There cannot possibly be different coordinates for Mica I, Mica V and Mica VII. The same goes for Niops and a number of other systems that apparently have multiple colonized planets.
• Gotterdammerung was originally erroneously placed at Y 260,80. My Atlas der Inneren Sphäre places it at Y 468,20 yet the new TeamSpam file states Y 480,20.
• Similarly, the current TeamSpam coordinates for Hunan do not match the data from my Atlas (X 71.85 vs. X 73.04).
• Scituate is given Y-221.90 where my Atlas states -221.94.

(It is notable how very small deviations exist regarding systems that initially had wrong coordinates. Either somebody at TeamSpam was sloppy when correcting the initial wrong entry, or they know something we don't and my Atlas is wrong (which is entirely possible, mind you). Need to find out the correct coordinates here. Since you guys (Nic and Scaletail) seem to have a good connection to the folks at TeamSpam, can you try to find out how they came up with their latest coordinates?)

In order to work with the file, we obviously need to create a wikia copy of the "all eras" version, and apply some alterations:

• Switch to system names, do not use planet names. This especially includes the removal of romanic numbers (i.e. Suk II --> Suk, Carver V --> Carver, Trellwan --> Trell, Verthandi --> Norn). Surprisingly, Solaris VII already is noted down as simply Solaris.
• We need to come up with a naming convention for cases of multiple systems that have the same name, such as Alphard, Arcadia, Atreus, Cadiz, Cameron, Camlann, Ferris, Fletcher, Lancaster, Niles, Orkney, Preston, Sakhalin, Sheridan, Tiber, York). The current "system" on this wiki is not quite satisfactory in my opinion.

Not entirely sure about the owner history section. On one hand, I'd like to extend it into the known Dark Age time period, but that would be a very heavy workload. A better approach imho would be to note on individual planets when they changed hands (as opposed to the current depiction of the owner in certain more or less random years), and abandon the lists we currently have.

Frabby 05:42, 6 July 2008 (CDT)

Is there any sense in editing wrong data by hand?

I stumbeld about some things(coordinates & Ower data) and I thought that I could simply edit them but now when I see that coordinates, map pics etc. are generated then I think I can stop those edits.

BigDuke66 11:48, 15 July 2008 (CDT)

Yes. The more data that is corrected, the better BTW will be. There is no guarantee that Nic will be able to fix this, either. If the image is wrong, then remove it from the article, and note as such on the image's talk page (with a source, please!). The thing is that correcting incorrect planetary data is a lot of work, so I understand if you don't want to do it, but it's always worthwhile, even if only for the short-term.

Frabby, I apologize for taking so long to get back to you. I like most of your ideas, but I think Project: Planets is a better place to discuss this. --Scaletail 21:01, 15 July 2008 (CDT)

No apology required, I find myself busy with work and little time for the wiki actually. Anyways, back to the topic at hand I think the sad truth is that a lot of the auto-generated maps, nice as they are, need to be scrapped and re-created based on correct data. This could be done in an automated process. What is worse is that all references to "nearby systems" need to be updated/corrected manually.

The problem I see is that whenever data changes here, the work needs to be done all over again. This is simply not workable in the long run. The only way I can see is to link to autogenerated subpages, and keep the main articles out of the whole process. Frabby 04:50, 16 July 2008 (CDT)

That sounds like a workable solution. I would remiss, however, if I did not point that, despite the lack of Y coordinates, the vast majority of planets are accurate and even work within your proposed naming guideline. I agree with you that it is a lot of work to update information, but most articles also don't need fixing. --Scaletail 06:23, 16 July 2008 (CDT)

Why are the images incorrect? Due to inconsistencies w/ TeamSpam datasource, or some other reason? Nicjansma 00:54, 1 August 2008 (CDT)

Because some systems were seriously misplaced and the images were generated on faulty data, showing certain systems far from where they really are. Unfortunately, this also affects the "nearby systems" section. Frabby 02:58, 1 August 2008 (CDT)

New WikiProject

I recently noticed that there is no WikiProject for CBT Factions. Do you feel that one is necessary, and if so, how is one created? --Workerbee 10:15, 4 June 2008 (CDT)

It's something that I've thought about, but I didn't really think was necessary. If you'd like to start one up, please go for it. Projects are meant to be a place to coordinate efforts and the project leader is sort of like the chief coordinator. This means deciding on which articles are included under the auspices of the project, creating a "standard" article and maybe even a template. Eventually, a rating system should be devised so that interested readers and editors can figure which articles are more important and more informative. There are hordes of Projects over on Wikipedia that can provide good examples. Before you create it, the issue that I was contemplating was how broad of a scope you want. Do you only want to cover factions, or do you want to add events, too? There's no wrong answer, it's just food for thought. --Scaletail 20:20, 4 June 2008 (CDT)

Thanks for the advice. Personally, I was thinking of an "expanded"-style Project that encompasses both factions and faction events because of the intertwining of the two. When I create the Project, how do I create a template for review of articles (like the Biography template for articles that need to be looked over by a member)? --Workerbee 06:49, 5 June 2008 (CDT)

I just copied the one from BattleMechs and changed around some of the words. I was lucky in that I found a template Xoid had created for a project that nobody ever started that he was going to call Project:Vehicles, so I lucked into that image. I'm not sure how creating an image like that for a template works, so you will probably want to leave that blank unless you can figure it out. If you get that far, I can help. --Scaletail 18:52, 5 June 2008 (CDT)

Thanks again. I'm starting up the new Project very soon. --Workerbee 19:30, 5 June 2008 (CDT)

You're work is quoted!

Dude, I thought you might fine this rather cool: check out this ebay auction for the FedCom Civil War sb. It quotes the article you wrote entirely! That's a good sign for BTW if we're getting quoted on other sites. --Revanche ^{(talk|contribs)} 10:19, 26 July 2008 (CDT)

That's certainly interesting. I never imagined that the first written work I'd have quoted would be for BattleTech. --Scaletail 10:44, 26 July 2008 (CDT)

Greetings

Howdy. I'm new to this wiki, but have been involved in others in the past (go to wiki.urbandead.com and check out "FLUB;" I was the main contributor/ president of that particular MMORPG unit's wiki. I'm rusty, but mean well and have a little spare time (for now), so I'll be trying to help add some stuff. I just decided to re-read the 56-or-so-book BT series starting with Decision at Thunder Rift; I'm currently on The Price of Glory and am trying to help input some stuff on Rachan and Lord Garth to name just a couple. I can't guarantee I'll be the next sysadmin or anything, but I'm a 22-year BT player and fan, and am somewhat knowledgeable. I just need my memory jogged on the specifics of many events, thus my re-reading the series. If you have any pointers on the stuff I've already worked on --Rachan and Graff being my first outright 'new article' contributions, please, PLEASE let me know where I can make things better. Thanks for all your efforts; hopefully I'll be of use to you. As I just remembered how to put my sig on here, here it is.
--DervishIIc 19:53, 29 July 2008 (CDT)

Welcome aboard! I moved this to my user talk page, which is the appropriate place for it. User pages are just for that user. I'll certainly help you with whatever you need to the best of my ability. Unfortunately I never read the GDL novels after Mercenary's Star, so I don't think I'll be of any content help on those two specific articles. Beyond that, all I have to say is I'll be in contact. --Scaletail 20:48, 29 July 2008 (CDT)

Bloodnames

I noticed a couple of things: First off, a couple of Clan Jade Falcon bloodnames didn't show up (I edited them on the page), which were Clees (Samantha Clees, Khan Marthe Pryde's saKhan in the Twilight of the Clans series) and Crichell (Khan Elias Crichell, Marthe Pryde's predecessor). I would like to note the bloodname Pershaw as well, from Kael Pershaw, Loremaster of the Clans and head of Clan Jade Falcon's branch of The Watch.

Also, I would like to mention that the bloodnames Leroux and Carns were named under Clan Wolf and then under Clan Nova Cat. Aren't Carns and Leroux both Nova Cat bloodnames? Or did Clan Nova Cat take bondsmen with Wolf bloodlines?

Sorry for the confusion. I know you're busy, but if you need help looking into this, I will. Jacen Pryde 18:18, 2 August 2008 (CDT)

The reason they were not noted under the list of exclusive bloodnames is because they are not. They are non-exclusive bloodnames that the Falcons have access to (this list is given in Field Manual: Crusader Clans). You are correct in that they are the names of prominent Falcons, and that Clan does seem to have a preponderance of officials who are not from prominent Bloodhouses, but it is what it is. There is a more complete list at Clan Bloodnames that includes those. --Scaletail 22:20, 2 August 2008 (CDT)

Referencing method

I hope I catch you while you're still on: in Julian Davion I noticed that you used the same reference twice, without having to re-write the whole reference again. I see how you do it and it appears to hinge on your assigning it a name (SS6) and then using that name again later, where you want the citation to re-appear. Three questions:

1. Is that chosen name arbitrary?
2. Is it page-centric or, if you use the name again, will it appear on another article?
3. Can you point me to a good reference for using citations in this manner? (Or, where did you learn this?)

Thanks! --Revanche ^{(talk|contribs)} 22:21, 18 August 2008 (CDT)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Cite#Using_the_same_citation_again --Scaletail 07:42, 19 August 2008 (CDT)

Thanks. --Revanche ^{(talk|contribs)} 08:31, 19 August 2008 (CDT)

Operation Gemini vs Operation Odysseus

In the history section of 21st Centauri Lancers, you've labeled the situation in which the unit was an unwilling participant as Operation Gemini. I cannot find my original copy of Field Manual: Mercenaries at the moment, but in the other two references, I don't see that name. In The Fall of Terra (scenariobook) it is referred to as Operation Odysseus. Do you have a source for the former name? --Revanche ^{(talk|contribs)} 20:45, 23 August 2008 (CDT)

It's not in the books I referenced, and I thought I knew where it was, but I don't. IIRC, Gemini was the name given to the phase of the operation that replaced the Lancers. Odysseus is the name of the invasion of Terra. Since I can't find any references, however, I changed it. --Scaletail 21:31, 23 August 2008 (CDT)

Thanks. I'll double-check the sections regarding the Lancers too. --Revanche ^{(talk|contribs)} 22:22, 23 August 2008 (CDT)

Thank You

Thank you for the correction in my CustomMech article (Black Dog), I appreciate it. Any time you spot something like that in my stuff feel free to fix it, regardless of whether it is a "do not edit" article or not. --DragonoftheRust 09:24, 26 August 2008 (CDT)

Your welcome! I eliminate stray apostrophes with extreme prejudice. --Scaletail 18:45, 26 August 2008 (CDT)

Email

I just sent you an e-mail thru the BTW system. Please respond when you get the opportunity. Thanks. --Revanche ^{(talk|contribs)} 10:43, 26 August 2008 (CDT)

Back at ya. --Scaletail 18:45, 26 August 2008 (CDT)

BattleTech Fanon Wikia

Um, hi there! This is falconsclaw787. Recently, a new wiki, the BattleTech Fanon Wikia, similar to the Halo Fanon wikia, was created. Although it's still it's early stages, it is coming along well, and should be finished withing a week. I was just wondering if maybe you, or someone could talk about it, or feture it on the sarna.net front page, just so people know that it's around. If you could do this, or get someone to do it, I would be really grateful!

(Also, if it would be possible for the sites to beceom partners, that would also be very nice. Also, if it's okay, if I could use some of the templates used on this site on BattleTechFanon that would be nice.)

PS - Here is the link! (It's still being worked on!)

[1]

Falconsclaw787 11:32, 30 September 2008 (CDT)

Don't get me wrong, but are you aware of the fact that the BattleTechWiki/Sarna.net does in fact welcome fan fiction (although it should be marked as such), owing to the fansite nature of the original site. So to some small extent at least this Wiki is a fanon site as well. Frabby 12:49, 30 September 2008 (CDT)

Yes but I'm going to make a site more like the Halo Fanon site, which will let members create fanon that they can't create here. I acknolwedge your point, but I'm looking to create a site just for Fanon, and not mostly canon, and a few fanon articles.

Falconsclaw787 17:29, 30 September 2008 (CDT)

Also, I got your message Scaletail, and the site should be ready to function as it should in about a week at most. Looking forward to working with you and the rest of sarna.net!

Falconsclaw787 17:31, 30 September 2008 (CDT)

Sure! Since this is a wiki, any other site that operates under the GNU is free to borrow templates and things. Just note that if you take actual information, a link back to the site is necessary (See Template:Wikipedia for how we handle this). Good luck to you! --Scaletail 19:06, 30 September 2008 (CDT)

Concerning Rash Edits

Hello Scaletail,

I'm just curious why you undid my major edits and placed the images elseware? I'll bite that they look better there but being "Wiki Stalked" is one of my major flashpoints and a easy way to get under my skin, I really dislike when people undo my edits "for the heck of it" or "because my way was better".

Please get back to me either here or on my talkpage, I'll have it set up by then.

Regards,

Jake