l0rDn0o8sKiLlZ
12/20/20 06:23 AM
73.216.131.208
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--- I've just built a pair of specialized Mountaineer/Forest 'Mechs and included a Hatchet on one and a Sword on the other. They're 80 Tons apiece. What are the rules regarding chopping down trees with Melee weapons? A google search doesn't seem to turn up too much. I've already looked through Strat. Ops, Tac. Ops and Total Warfare... albeit far from thoroughly and can't seem to find any information on Melee Attacks versus Woods. What book could I look in?
"Woad Raider, kill things today."
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ghostrider
12/20/20 01:26 PM
66.74.60.165
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Hatchet/Axe should work, but not sure how long before it becomes more like a club when used in combat. Though before hitting the continue key. They have done nothing along this line about using such weapons against armor, so the dulling concept is moot.
Any sharp blade should work, but not sure how effective a sword would be. Granted, they are designed to damage armor, so a tree should not be that big of a problem.
I guess the question would come down to how much armor points a tree would have, verses the damage output by the blade?
And it should not be much of a problem, as the game did allow a mech to rip a tree up to use as a one time club.
The only problem that might come up, is logger mechs supposedly 'hold' the tree to set it on a downward path towards a safe spot. Yet they also suggest that some of the trees would snap off the hand if they tried to hold them, not just guide them.
But I don't remember seeing much about the damage it does to trees. Wood, could be considered light buildings in the game.
With that, I would guess you couldn't take down a hex in any fast time, so a combat round would be out of the question.
To avoid complicating things with reality, I would suggest that if you make up something, keep it standard, as a redwood would be harder to take down then a simple dwarf fruit tree.
Maybe the redwood is more like an assault mech leg armor, while the dwarf tree a single point? And size of tree would change this as well, but again. Complicated equations.
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Karagin
12/20/20 01:44 PM
70.118.172.64
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You have the "Work" mechs ala Dark Age click-tech game as an example and the older rules from the different books for industrial mechs.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Wick
12/22/20 06:51 PM
173.247.25.195
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Trees should be subject to melee attacks in the same fashion as buildings, with some exceptions. First, they have an undefined CF, so game master would have to define one that seems reasonable. Second, they are not subject to accidental melee damage, like buildings are if you run down a street, fail the piloting roll and go skidding into a building. In practical purposes they would be subject to such damage, but the game considers multiple trees to exist on wooded hexes so if you happened to take out one, the hex wouldn't be denuded. Since boardgame rules operate on hexes and take place during a battlefiled scenario, the fact it would take several turns to chop down all the trees in a hex suggests there hasn't been any needed to define rules for it. Its not a practical thing to do in the midst of a firefight. So I think you're dealing with houses rules here, loosely based on the Citytech style rules for damage to buildings. By extension, I'd consider mechs without physical weapons could also knock down trees though punches, kicks, and charges, though they likely leave the tree in an unsuitable condition for lumber. (i.e, splintered, cracked, broken halfway up the trunk, etc.) Dedicated machines with the right tools and grapplers or hoists to better position felled trees exist, but you don't see much logging going on during battles.
And out of personal preference, I don't see a sword being effective for chopping down trees. If I want to chop down a tree I'll use an axe, not a broadsword or katana. By same manner, if I want to bash a mech, I'll take a either a mace or axe attached to the forearm (like the Nightsky), and not a handheld weapon (like Hatchetman) of any type, especially not a long, flimsy sword. The way melee weapons are represented in most of the artwork is just unreasonable against hardened armor. You try to hit a sturdy object with a sword its likely to break or go flying out of your grip, giving you a sore wrist in the process. The same thing should happen with Battlemech swords hitting other Battlemechs (or strong trees.)
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ghostrider
12/23/20 01:12 AM
66.74.60.165
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The stupid thing to taking out trees with melee attacks is mechs can do as much damage to a wood hex as the weapons that can be used to clear them. Granted, it is very possible that no one really thought that such an action would be done with a melee attack. I mean, why destroy the woods that are protecting you from incoming fire? And if close enough, why waste the attack on the woods instead of hitting the enemy?
As for not recording a mech falling in a woods hex damage to the woods, may well be that it is more work to deal with then necessary. Is it likely to affect the outcome of the battle? Possibly, but unlikely.
This subject may well be why they use chainsaw attachments to do lumberjack work.
I do agree with the sword being ineffective for the job, if you want to actually use the tree for lumber, but the axe can be argued either way. It would require skill to use a mech axe, but they do use normal sized axes for lumberjacks to chop down trees, so the idea isn't that far off.
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Wick
12/24/20 01:54 PM
173.247.25.195
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Quote:
I mean, why destroy the woods that are protecting you from incoming fire? And if close enough, why waste the attack on the woods instead of hitting the enemy?
Not during the battle so much, but I could see mechs clearing a path through wooded areas for vehicles to follow en route to target. And melee attacks would be preferable to expending ammo or firing energy weapons that could potentially create a wildfire (though smoke could help conceal your numbers). But again, things that happen outside of a battle don't really need to covered by any rules: if it sounds reasonable and causes no wear to the unit involved, assume it just happens without any to-hit or piloting rolls.
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