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12/10/13 11:47 PM
67.239.101.65
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The Storm Infiltrator Submarine is a midget submersible that fills the roles of beach landing crafts and limited AA support used frequently by Crossroads(Alt. History faction, move along...). They have the access to their own advanced technologies up to par with the Clans and sometimes interact with the clans themselves.
The Storm Midget Submarine could be considered the APC of the sea. The turret-mounted LB 2-X AC is woefully inadequate for facing off directly against anything. However, special care went to engineering of the autocannon mount, making it among the most accurate anti-aircraft weapons in the universe! No lone VTOL or fighter willingly waltzes into the range of a pack of these. Thus the infantry or BA carried will have some anti-air support close to the beachhead often necessary to ensure their safety. It can provide limited fire support against ground targets as well. However, despite having an excellent effective range and endurance, the weapon is only marginally effective at that role.
Unless the Storm Infiltrator Sub is lucky enough to disable a vehicle's critical systems, gets a lucky through-armor critical hit, breaches an enemy's hull, or is left alone for long enough to deliver a death by a thousand AC/2 cuts, the Storm will almost never win direct encounters. Therefore they are not used as such, often only lingering long enough to provide AA support and picking up their BA or infantry complement(if necessary)
A fuel cell engine keeps the Storm cheap and easy enough to mass produce, and the LB 2-X AC does not require any strategically important resources. For added protection, HarJel is located at the sides and front of the submarine(Incredibly helpful at stopping breaches!)
HarJel is aquired frequently from mass trading with the clans and, somewhat more rarely, raiding Clan Diamond Shark's HarJel sources covertly.
A five ton cargo bay cuts it a bit short, but 5 medium battle armor suits can still bring quite a punch.
Unfortunately, the Storm is completely defenseless against enemy submarine strikes. This is why the Storm MUST have escort craft! Preferably with Angel ECM to help conceal the entire battlegroup.
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Type: Storm Infiltrator Sub(Support APC)
Technology Base: Clan / 3100
Ruleset: Advanced (5th edition)
Movement Type: Submarine
Tonnage: 50
Cost: 3 million-something C-bills
Battle Value: ???
Equipment Mass
HarJel Left 1.0
HarJel Right 1.0
HarJel Front 1.0
Internal Structure: 5.0
Engine: 220 10.0
Type: Fuel Cell
Cruise MP: 5
Flank MP: 8
Heat Sinks: 0 -10.0
Control Equipment: 2.5
Lift Equipment: 5.0
Power Amplifier: 0.0
Turret: 0.0
Armor Factor: 215 11.0
Armor
Value
Front 70
L/R Side 40/40
Rear 25
Turret
Weapons and Ammo Location Tons
LB 2-X AC Turret 5.0
Ammo (LB 2-X) 45 Body 1.0
Crew: 3
Infantry Bay: 5.0 tons
BattleForce 2
MP Damage PB/M/L Overheat Class
5s 0/0/0 - M
Armor/Structure Point Value Specials
-/7 7 -
Optional Quirks:
Accurate Weapon(LB 2-X AC)
Anti-Aircraft Targeting
Improved Sensors
Narrow/Low Profile
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12/11/13 09:31 PM
67.239.101.65
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A quick redesign removes a ton of armor for harjel in the turret to prevent breaches.
(Oops, oversight on my part.)
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12/11/13 11:59 PM
67.239.101.65
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The Harjel is not working on my submarines in Megamek... instead of preventing the harjel breaching roll, it does... nothing. They still get breached on 10 or higher, and the rolls are not being prevented by Harjel systems.
Before the breach there were no critical hits that disabled the Harjel system. The armor was never destroyed either(would cause an automatic breach). This is irritating me.
Anyone else having this issue with their custom subs?(If applicable)
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
12/16/13 01:42 PM
172.56.7.81
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To costly for so little usefulness. Not to mention not the kind of up front tactic the clans find honorable.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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12/16/13 05:48 PM
67.239.101.65
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I disagree, a submersible APC that is stupidly hard to kill even with another submarine that can sweep the skies from all sorts of conventionals and some ASF is quite useful in it's niche.
Also:
"The Storm Infiltrator Submarine is a midget submersible that fills the roles of beach landing crafts and limited AA support used frequently by Crossroads". Not the clans.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
12/19/13 10:30 AM
206.29.182.250
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I would put my Mino Attack Sub http://www.sarna.net/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/159344/an/0/page/7#159344 up against your sub any day.
My turn, I fire my LRT-5 wail submerged.
Your turn, you do nothing because your weapon cant fire at under water targets. You cant even run away because my flank speed is 32kph faster than yours.
Repeat until I create a breach and flood your sub and destroy it or I run out of ammo and retreat at a faster speed.
If we are dealing with a fleets of sea going ships I would win that much faster.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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12/19/13 11:17 AM
72.214.204.166
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You shouldn't compare an APC sub purely armed for AA support to a sub equipped for hunting other subs and underwater threats. And unless something really catastrophic we're to happen like the harjel gets critted you won't make a breach, and escort craft will quickly hunt you down.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
12/19/13 11:37 AM
206.29.182.250
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Soooo... My sub should not attack other subs? That's a new concept.
My sub is a support sub and they are meant to hunt in packs.
Here is the mother sub. http://www.sarna.net/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/159352/an/0/page/7#159352
Here are some of my other naval craft
http://www.sarna.net/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/159351/an/0/page/7#159351
http://www.sarna.net/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/159350/an/0/page/7#159350
http://www.sarna.net/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/159349/an/0/page/7#159349
http://www.sarna.net/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/159477/an/0/page/7#159477
http://www.sarna.net/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/159479/an/0/page/7#159479
http://www.sarna.net/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/159478/an/0/page/7#159478
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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12/19/13 01:14 PM
72.214.204.166
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No, it's just that you seem to assume that they are traveling alone and therefore completely defenseless as APCs normally are in that scenario(there is no debate the midget subs will win ofc), when really everything from torpedo toting convfighters and aerospace to hovercraft to displacement vessels to hydrofoils to even the occasional underwater mech will either be in the way or close enough to lend a hand. Some with bloodhounds, some with beagles, some optimized for anti sub warfare, most not, almost all though will be capable of targeting the submarine. A good amount of the bigger ships(medium to assault) will have harjel so you can't play the breach game with 'em. Regardless, the role isn't to defend against enemy subs but to provide some AA fire for the landing troops. A torp weapon would not suffice for AA
Speaking of, I need more ship designs for myself.
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12/19/13 01:20 PM
72.214.204.166
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Also, your hydrofoils with the"inability to be sunk"... What?
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
12/19/13 05:34 PM
206.29.182.236
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Quote:
Also, your hydrofoils with the"inability to be sunk"... What?
Its not the first boat that is made of materials that naturally float. That does not mean that the boat will function if its haul is penetrated it just means that the boat will stay on the surface of the body of water and not sink to the bottom. I got the idea from some of the US Coast Guard rescue ships.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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12/19/13 10:47 PM
67.239.101.65
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Name me a material that you can make the boat mostly from that is practical as military grade armor/structure and is lighter than water.
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ghostrider
12/21/13 01:37 PM
66.74.187.127
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Well if the story has any impact on this arguement, it says the mini sub is an submersible landing craft. Saying this or that unit can kill it is fine and dandy, but this does lead to the question of it if is unsupported or not. The fluff hints at being part of an offensive.
From the sounds of alot of arguements, it seems that the leaders of player run units have elemental guards around them at all time, and possibly even use the armor themselves when outside thier mechs.
Granted the fluff also says its used for infiltration. And it needs escort. That might have been added later. One of the big advantages to something like this is you would need to know there was something like it to even begin to look.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
12/21/13 07:58 PM
172.56.8.226
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You can have foam as part of the haul. It does not stop damage but it will let parts of the ship float even if the haul is not in one piece. Weapon fire will pass right through the foam and not affect its ability to keep things afloat.
On the subject of this sub. Why would you want to put a AA mount on a submersible landing craft? All the sub would have to do is submerge and its mostly safe from air units from attacking it. If your landing large number of troops in an open attack a sub is not practical even more so when you have drop ships that are not restricted to large bodies of water. If your landing a small force of commandos the last thing you would want is for any aircraft to know exactly where their ride is by advertising its exact location by firing weapons at the aircraft. The sub is at far more danger from other water units as I showed in the example of my sub attacking yours.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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12/21/13 08:25 PM
67.239.109.174
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Somewhat because the landing forces need some AA capability, more because something has to have the LB-X AC(In a campaign rule set I'm making none of the autocannons will be nearly as useless as they are now), also because it's supposed to look like one of those U-Boats with them MG batteries.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/U995_2004_1.jpg
It's intended for use in more of the low conflict zones where the enemy doesn't have dropships and ASF but can very easily scramble legions of basic conventional fighters and VTOLs. If I wanted a transport sub for commandos, I'd have installed an XL engine instead of a cheap fuel cell engine. For a similar reason I don't want to risk dropship assets. The sub is at danger against other naval units, but a LRT won't help a landing party already on the beach.
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Cray
12/21/13 09:07 PM
97.101.96.171
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Quote:
Name me a material that you can make the boat mostly from that is practical as military grade armor/structure and is lighter than water.
Ooo, a materials challenge.
There aren't a lot of options for solid materials that are lighter than water. A handful of polymers will do it, like polyethylene. You'd probably want some reinforcement, like another polymer in fiber form.
But...
There are plenty of high-strength materials that can be quite lighter when foamed or expanded. Polyurethane, epoxy, and fiberglass used in surf boards are all materials heavier than water until you foam the polyurethane. BattleTech makes good use of foamed aluminum to keep the density of 'Mech bones very light despite a shell of ultra-strong steel and silicon carbide. Endo-steel is even lighter, using larger-diameter bones to increase stiffness while lowering weight. There are also nifty 3D truss composites superior to ye olde honeycombing.
So, you could use conventional BT armor. It consists of sheet-thick steel, ceramic, and honeycombed titanium backing. If the honeycomb is thick enough, you could easily reduce the density below that of water (all the while boosting the stiffness of the armor.)
You can also fill dead spaces of the submarine with foam. Syntactic foam isn't going to stop a bullet, but it can carry a pressure load.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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12/21/13 10:37 PM
67.239.109.174
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I'd personally experiment with filling the hull with helium on displacement hulls. It'd be kind of like an airship... except it isn't in the air, of course.
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Cray
12/22/13 06:46 PM
71.47.122.85
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Quote:
I'd personally experiment with filling the hull with helium on displacement hulls. It'd be kind of like an airship... except it isn't in the air, of course.
There's not a lot of difference between air and helium when it comes to aquatic vessels' buoyancy.
Water is 1000 kilograms per cubic meter.
Air is 1.3 kilograms per cubic meter (rounding up)
Helium is 0.18 kilograms per cubic meter (rounding up)
So, a cubic meter of air in a hull produces a buoyancy of 998.3 kilograms, while a cubic meter of helium produces a buoyancy of 999.8 kilograms.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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12/23/13 01:35 AM
67.239.109.174
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Good to know.
Also, just realized this could be a submersible cutter for coast guards along with other duties.
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