iron_sirocco
01/29/23 09:21 PM
73.87.43.30
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I know it will require a major rewrite; however, has any one thought about using static weapon damage (like in Battletech) in Mechwarrior 1,2ed? I feel it would bridge the gap between the two systems a little better, or streamline the system.
I do not have the books in front of me; however, it seems like an entirely different design team was used for each game. The static weapon damage used in Battletech and the original D&D rule that all weapons did 1d6 (averge 3.5), got me thinking about using it in my Mechwarrior games. Not to mention that Unarmed Combat already does static damage based on your Strength.
What I am thinking, is just take the average of each weapon damage dice. For example: 3d6 would be rounded to 10pt, 2d6 = 7pt, etc. I am not sure if that HitPoints would need to sale or just use the weapons table from BattleTech and skin the weapons. Also I am thinking about using the Missile Hit 2d6 Table for automatic weapons.
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ghostrider
01/30/23 12:23 PM
45.51.181.83
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I believe the game, both RPG and Board, need a major rewrite of the rule.
The static weapon damage seems like it would move more towards the board game, but it eliminates some of the element of chance the RPGs use.
I can see why static damage, for the most part, was the board games damage system. I would think it was done to move it away from Robotech further. Granted the two systems are pretty far apart to begin with. Missiles and MG damage were the main things that weren't consistent against all foes. The addition of Ultras allowed some AC chance.
Things like movement scale is a problem with the RPG is a problem. Weapons range itself is an issue. I believe the 5 meter hex is the scale for the RPG. The fact you can pack in more then a few combatants in there verse the board's 2 mechs, and they are in physical combat is a big one. Then movement speed for a character comes up.
Things like infantry damage to a mech is another point. In the RPG, a single person firing a pistol is able to damage a mech, yet you need 7 in the board game.
But for a 'patch', the idea presented is a decent start.
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iron_sirocco
01/30/23 03:42 PM
73.87.43.30
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Quote:
I believe the game, both RPG and Board, need a major rewrite of the rule.
The static weapon damage seems like it would move more towards the board game, but it eliminates some of the element of chance the RPGs use.
I can see why static damage, for the most part, was the board games damage system. I would think it was done to move it away from Robotech further. Granted the two systems are pretty far apart to begin with. Missiles and MG damage were the main things that weren't consistent against all foes. The addition of Ultras allowed some AC chance.
Things like movement scale is a problem with the RPG is a problem. Weapons range itself is an issue. I believe the 5 meter hex is the scale for the RPG. The fact you can pack in more then a few combatants in there verse the board's 2 mechs, and they are in physical combat is a big one. Then movement speed for a character comes up.
Things like infantry damage to a mech is another point. In the RPG, a single person firing a pistol is able to damage a mech, yet you need 7 in the board game.
But for a 'patch', the idea presented is a decent start.
What I am trying to do is convert Fallout 1 and 2 to use Mechwarrior 1st edition rules. I am currently doing this with GURPS; however, as much as I want to love GURPS, it just feels odd. I have stripped out a lot of items and almost down to GURPS Ultra-Lite. However, by the time you get GURPS so light and use the GURPS Ultra-Lite rules, I feel 2d6 rules and system offers greater value for less work.
Mechwarrior/battletech has the 2d6 that I love, and also the connection to the board game Battletech, so really it seems like all the heavy lifting is already done, just need to convert the basic feel, Perks, Hindrances, etc to Mechwarrior.
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ghostrider
01/30/23 05:55 PM
45.51.181.83
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I thought a little more about this, and think it might be a better thing to go the other way.
Randomize the board damage.
It would slow down the game more, which is a major issue, but having something like a medium laser doing from 3-5 damage verses someone knowing a single ML will finish off a units armor. This would cause more then a few people to avoid the straight on rush in order to finish off an opponent.
To get the 3-5 damage, so others that don't know, a simple d6/2 plus 2 would work. So a 1-2 roll would be equal to 1, while 3-4 roll would be 2, and the 5-6 roll would be equal to 3.
This would be keeping with the stories told were a shot grazes armor on the enemy, while a shot that scars the entire front torsos would show up as well.
That was the fun and curse of the old D&D games. Not running pure numbers, but if the next shot will finally finish of you or the opponent.
This is not saying removing the random damage factor is bad. It does mean a slightly faster resolve of combat. It also allows everyone to know just what to expect from say a laser pistol.
But as you said. removing items to get to a point where everything is equal is a problem. Soon you are left with almost no options, but it does mean that all SMGs are the same concept.
It removes the hunt for min/max as well as cuts down on character creation. You really don't need 12 different types of SMGs when you pilot a mech.
Have you had someone use a back ground that they were a hunter before becoming a mech pilot?
They say they modified their rifle before starting to pilot a mech, so they can use bonuses to hit and damage.
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iron_sirocco
01/30/23 10:19 PM
73.87.43.30
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You must read minds, because that is what has always stopped me from using total static weapon damage. Having the unknown to stop you in your tracks before attempting something, since you never really knew how much damage was coming.
In the past I have made damage charts similar to the Missile Hit chart, but more generic. I was always trying to streamline the damage range in GURPS, since at times you can end up rolling multiple rolls of 10d. A generic chart based on each weapon will also allow for benefits or hindrances based on weapon quality or modification. The latter was inspired in the early 90s by MicroProse Darklands when I was playing it heavy, since there was a weapon quality rating, which effected damage of the weapon.
Example:
Code: 3051 Colt Navy Laser Pistol
Dice roll | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12
Damage | 3 | 4 | 6 | 7 | 9 | 10 | 12 | 13 | 10 | 16 | 18
3051 Colt Navy Laser Pistol Draconian Combine Contract version
Dice roll | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12
Damage | 3 | 4 | 6 | 7 | 9 | 11 | 12 | 14 | 15 | 17 | 19
The issue is that a average damage range is still known, however, that can be argued for any dice roll. 1d4 = 2.5, 1d6 = 3.5, 1d8 = 4.5, 1d10 = 5.5, 1d12 = 6.5
I suspect a 1d6 chart could be made, but I do not feel that would scale with large weapon damage. However, each value would be random. Maybe a d66 chart would work and still keep with a unified mechanics of 2d6 dice rolls, but I think a d66 charge for each weapon would slow down game play, unless the chart could be formatted in such a way it becomes an index table.
When I used the method in game, I ran weapon cards made from 3x5 note cards. The note card would have the write up, and handed out to the player. Even penciled in images of the weapons from GURPS books, or the Technical Readout: 3026 with modifications to keep the feel going. But, since not having much time in my mid/late 40s these days I have taken the Milton Bradley's HeroQuest method of damage dice rolling or the 2d6 resolution system from Classic Traveller for simple RPG play.
However, BattleTech/Mechwarrior always scratches that 2d6 itch and the idea of "what if" since it had a blend of RPG and tactical simulation that made you think.
I was exposed to FASA with some of their very early Classic Traveller add-ons. I know some of their systems were questionable at best; however, I always wanted to try to get a copy of their Dr Who game. I have read some crafty ways they did damage and skill rolls. I think they LOVED their dice TABLES in that game, but in the end - you want a quick task/damage system that does not take away from RP value and still leaves you enough room for options and random outcomes for fun and breath holding moments.
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ghostrider
01/31/23 12:19 PM
45.51.181.83
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To scale into numbers 1d6 or even 2d6 can't really do, you simply add something to the outcome. I would also say subtract, but that could result in a negative number at times.
For the larger numbers, it could well just result in a base number with a d6/2d6 variation of damage. Maybe even going above the 'max' of the weapon, or what ever the die roll is for.
Still, making static damage for mechwarrior RPG does have some valid points. It would streamline a little more, and basically cut out a lot of firearm quirks. It makes all weapons more generic. This means cutting out a lot of unused weapons. I doubt someone will buy a weapon that has inferior range and damage if they can get the better item for the same price. Well without being sentimental about it.
It would also remove the issues of ammo variants as well. So book keeping is made easier.
Hand guns start with having so many calibers they deal with today. In the future, I would expect to see even more. From the .22 to the .50 caliber. Different ranges, damage, even slug type, clutters the shelves.
Reading your mind? I can't even read mine with much accuracy.
It has always been one of the enjoyment/frustrations of D&D having the random rolls. Not just to hit, but even rolling to see if your weapon will actually kill a kobold, without any modifiers. Same with magic. Will the magic missile kill the creature?
The larger weapons could use the d6 and just add a minimum to allow it to reach it's current maximum, and maybe a bit beyond. Say a large laser does 4-9, meaning d6+3. If feeling nice, make it +4. then it is 5=10. Bump other damage as you see fit.
You could also leave it at the half d6 and do a better minimum, such as suggested earlier in the thread, of the 1-2= 1 concept and just add more to the roll to get your max. Then you have 3 damage potential making it exciting without being too difficult.
But then this is my opinion. I like/hate when the dice are random. Miss the kobold, but hit a dragon.
Miss the mech in front, yet hit the one standing behind it. Much like some of the video games do.
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