CRASH
02/08/08 03:57 PM
70.91.14.150
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Hey all. I registered a few years back, but have been away from the game for a while. I'm looking to get back into some classic Battletech and I hope to rope some of my buddies into playing.
Going through my old stuff I realized that in our group it was waaaay too easy repair, salvage and customize 'Mechs in our on-going units. I've already decided that we're gonna cut down the customized 'Mechs to the bone, but I was wondering:
Does anyone have a quick, easy system for repairing 'Mech and paying for parts? As a GM, I don't want to have to sit and watch you "roll for repair" on all your 'Mechs after every battle. But I don't want to give players the "magic genie" ability either.
Also, how much do you let players salvage damaged/destroyed 'Mechs? I don't want to stifle the growth of the player's units, but I also don't want them repairing burned out shells to combat ready machines...
One last thing - does anyone have a time-table for repairs? This usually only comes into play for us when we're running long campains, but I'd like to have something to refer to. Especially if anyone has an idea of "how much work can a tech and team of astechs perform/hour"
Thanks.
See ya 'round the Inner Sphere.
Crash
"It is not home if there is no beer." - Largo, MegaTokyo.com (10.12.01)
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Frabby
02/08/08 08:45 PM
87.164.232.146
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We had pretty much the same situation in our merc unit, "Harbingers of Doom" back in the time, where I was GM.
We used the MW2 roleplaying system but good Techs were hard to come by. Generally, the skill level of the techs (or other people trying their luck) determined on what maneuvers they were allowed to attempt in the first place, and also the target numbers increased with increasingly difficult jobs. Since repair and salvage was a major element in our campaign we had a fairly complicated system but it worked quite well. From the top of my head, it was along these lines:
Any repairs except ammo reload and armour replacement on the legs require a simple repair platform (alternatively, hangars such as DropShip bays or 'Mech bays in buildings, or even suitable terrain at GMs discretion). Work on a 'Mechs Gyro or Reactor required a 'Mech bay, something most field repair units could not provide.
Most repair and salvage work required the use of one or several toolkits; the toolkits used in the game were Cutting (common), Welding (common), Electronics (uncommon) and Fusion (rare). We also used generic "spare parts packages" that were the equivalent to one point of internal structure each for repairs.
Without correct tools, certain advanced tasks could not even be attempted while others would suffer a penalty at GM discretion.
If a repair action fails, the expendable parts used in the attempt are still lost and precious time was lost. If it fails spectacularly (Fumble) then further damage is created in the attempt.
Modified 'Mechs were extra difficult to repair and maintain. Any work on a component that deviated from the 'Mechs exact subtype increased the difficulty of the maneuver by one step and the target roll by two points. I.e. replacing armour in an unmodified location was a Routine job (that anybody could try) with a target roll of 2 whereas if you had added extra armour to a loaction, replacing armour there was an "Easy" job (requiring a trained tech) with a target roll of 4.
Any Modifications had to be attempted on each individual (!) 'Mech; the creation of a generic field variant like the Challenger (Charger SB) was flatly denied by the evil GM (me). A successul modification roll meant the players had found a way to modify *this* particular 'Mech in *this* particular way. To actually make the modifications, they had to scavenge excess parts from the 'Mech and then "repair" it to meet its modified stats. I shall not go into detailed modification rules here (we had them but I cannot find them anymore).
A) Routine jobs (may be attempted by anyone, tech level 0)
- Ammo reload: Target roll 2 (i.e. only fails on double-1 or whatever indicates a fumble in your system)
Result of fumble: Reload attempt fails, time wasted. Just retry. Exceptional fumble (secretly determined by GM) could mean that the weapon had a chance to jam without the player knowing this; in a worst case scenario instead of a jam, an ammo explosion could occur. Alternatively, anything the GM came up with such as lowered tolerace (higher avoidance rolls) to ammo explosions when overheating, etc.
Clearing a jammed weapon was treated like reloading (not as a repair attempt, despite description in some novels).
- Armour repair: Target roll 3 (we assumed this to be a really easy job as armour would be *designed* to be replaced)
Result of fumble: Armour points lost in the attempt. Depending on severity of fumble the player could just bolt on another plate if he had sufficient time or the max armour value was permanently lowered.
- Scavenging/removing armour plates from a 'Mech (complete location, 2:1): Target roll 3
- Scavenging/removing heat sinks or any non-energy weapons including flamers: Target roll 4
- Scavenging/removing internal structure points (3:1), actuators or energy weapons: Target roll 6
- Scavenging a Cockpit, Life Support, Sensors, Targeting system: Target roll 7
- Scavenging a Gyroscope: Target roll 8
- Scavenging a Fusion Engine: Target roll 10
Result of Fumble: Item damaged or destroyed in the attempt
B) Easy jobs (may be attempted at tech level 1 or better)
- Replacement of damaged parts for exact same spare parts: Target roll 5 (required the exact same item to be installed in place of the damaged/missing one, based on the 'Mechs exact type/subtype. Which means modified 'Mechs were a nightmare to repair and maintain just on ground of being not configured to standard!)
Result of Fumble: Replacement item destroyed; in extreme cases: Loss of internal structure
- Repairing a simple weapon system: Target roll 6 (MGs, Flamers, any LRM or SRM)
Result of Fumble: Item has permanent to-hit penalty or is even completely destroyed
C) Moderately difficult jobs (may be attempted at tech level 2 or better)
- Repairing an autocannon: Target roll 6 (probably more for rotary, lbx etc. - we played 3025 tech)
Result of Fumble: Item has permanent to-hit penalty or is even completely destroyed
- Repairing internal structure points: Target roll 7
Result of Fumble: Permanent loss of max. internal structure, which could mean max. armour also drops accordingly if the 'Mech design had maximum armour protection in that location.
D) Difficult jobs (may be attempted at tech level 3 or better)
- Repairing a Gyroscope or energy weapon: Target roll 9
Result of Fumble: Item has permanent penalty or is even completely destroyed
- Repairing another electronic system (targeting, life support, etc.): Target roll 10
Result of Fumble: Item has permanent damage (GMs discretion) or is even completely destroyed
E) Very difficult jobs (may be attempted at tech level 5 or better)
- Repairing a Fusion Engine: Target roll 12
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Christopher_Perkins
02/09/08 12:23 AM
67.166.179.76
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Suggest using Repair, Prizing, Customizing and Salvage Rules published in Mechwarrior/BattleTech RPG 1st Edition from pages 90 - 92
if you use Mechwarrior / BattleTech RPG 3rd Edition, Converting the Skill Tables below using the conversions on http://www.classicbattletech.com/index.php?action=text&page=ConvertingMW2 (double check for yourself, this is rushed)
Modifiers to success chance
Technician Skill Level ------------- Modifier (RPG 3e)
4-5 ------------------------------------ -1 (Tech SubSkill Bonus = 2-3 or Level 3-4)
6-7 ------------------------------------ -2 (Tech SubSkill Bonus = 4-5 or Level 5-6)
8 ------------------------------------- -3 (Tech SubSkill Bonus = 6 or Level 7)
No Tech Level ---------------------- Modifier (RPG 3e)
LRN 8-9 -------------------------------- +1 (INT 7-8)
LRN 6-7 -------------------------------- +2 (INT 5-6)
LRN 4-5 -------------------------------- +4 (INT 3-4)
LRN 2-3 -------------------------------- +6 (INT 1-2)
Modifiers to time required to repair
Technician Skill ------------------------- Time Multiplier (RPG 3e Equiv)
None ---------------------------------- 2.0 X Listed Time (untrained Skill Use)
1 -------------------------------------- 2.0 X Listed Time (Skill Level 0 of Appropriate Tech Sub Skill)
2 -------------------------------------- 1.0 X Listed Time (Skill Level 1 of Appropriate Tech Sub Skill)
3 -------------------------------------- 0.75 X Listed Time (Skill Level 2 of Appropriate Tech Sub Skill)
4 -------------------------------------- 0.5 X Listed Time (Skill Level 3 of Appropriate Tech Sub Skill)
5 -------------------------------------- 0.4 X Listed Time (Skill Level 4 of Appropriate Tech Sub Skill)
6 -------------------------------------- 0.33 X Listed Time (Skill Level 5 of Appropriate Tech Sub Skill)
7+ ------------------------------------ 0.25 X Listed Time (Skill Level 6+ of Appropriate Tech Sub Skill)
Example,
It takes a roll of 7+ to completely repair an engine Critical Hit (Fusion Powered BattleMech), and it requires a (Shielded!)Repair Platform, a Tool Kit, an Armour Cutting/Joining Kit, an Electronics Kit, and a Fusion Repair Kit. (each missing piece of equipment increases the difficulty Base Repair Facilities and Dropship BattleMech Bays are assumed to have the proper equipment)
You are using the "Free Lance Technician" Archetype on Page 70 - RPG 3e
if this Technician does not have the appropriate SubSkill, her Intelligence Attribute of 8 reduces the target by 1 to the point that she needs to beat a 6 on 2d6.
However, as the Technician has a Technician: Fusion bonus of +2 gives a modifier of -1 to the target of 7 or reduces the target for a complete repair to 6,
Christopher Robin Perkins
It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
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Dester
02/25/08 11:24 AM
216.57.96.1
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Unless your players are all Accountants that just love bean counting, I would use something similar to what I do in my campain.
First, assuming your unit pays for techs or have tech skill themseleves, all normal repairs (even on custom mechs) is assumed to be successfull given enough time to make the repairs.
Using the mech cost rules and a few other sources we I have come up with a "generic" cost for all items. (when its says tonage * X cost, use 60 tons.. the "average" weight of a mech)
16 points of internal structor per ton, 16 points of armor per ton.
Next, if a section is destroyed, all equipment w/in that section is destroyed. If a weapon takes a critical hit, it is destroyed and must be replaced. Gyros, engines can be patched up if they have the appropriate repair kits. (i think 50k c-bills per 1 patch each)
all weapons, ammo and actuators are to be considered "generic" as there are no sub types that will only fit X mech.
The only time to use repair time constraints is if you are running a serise of battles back to back with limited time between. Then use the scavanaging and repairs from above or the section in the battletech compendeimum.
For customizations, use your common since. Swaping a med laser for 2 smalls or a heat sink is fairly easy. changing movement points by swaping engine, adding jump jets, and completly reconfiguring armor and weapons... will take years  My theory is if they have the parts, they can do most anything given enough time. Just the more complex changes will take a very long time to accomplish.
Just remember, if the paperwork starts to interfere with the game, its time to cut back on it some If your players love to keep track of all the accounting and tracking down aparts and keeping the unit running is just as exciting to them as the actual battles, by all means pile it on.
Dester
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Christopher_Perkins
02/26/08 12:46 AM
67.166.179.76
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The Best word on the ease of replacements is found in RPG 1st Edition, but that doesn't deal witht he equipment of Either Star Leage Era or the Clans.
The Best for the 3067 period is found in the Map Pack Solaris VII book...
Each customization has a points cost, and this allows for you to set a pool of customization points for the unit that you can draw from.
In the Loosest of terms
Standard Endo Steel I => Endo Steel II or any other chassis type is the hardest swap because you are dismanteling the mech and reassembling it around the new chassis... Sort of like the Druid Changing a Light Buld... "One to hold the Light bulb, and the world turns around it"
Engine Swaps only Affect the Torso region, you open up the Torso Armour, remove an engine, and put an engine in, Going from Standard FE to LFE or XFE or any other Engine should not be too hard much harder than opening the armour... heck, doing an armour Swap at the same time astually woudl make it easier...
HS swaps are easier than engine swaps (or may require Engine Swap for the Included HS), but the MP Rules seam to disagree on this by havin the HS swap easie than an engine swap so go with them.
the Easiest upgrade is Reskinning the Mech, since this is what you have to cut through to do any upgrade that is not OmniPod Swaps
Christopher Robin Perkins
It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
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Greyslayer
03/08/08 07:47 PM
216.14.198.49
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The simplest 'no roll' method is time and money.
More experienced technicians can either take less time or cost you less money to do the repairs/replacements.
Since most repairs and replacements require large amounts of small 'consumables' such as cables, tools and adjustments (medium lasers are not all the same). Prices are even more expensive for salvaged parts but since you normally do not pay for the salvaged part it doesn't make that big a difference to the hip pocket.
For example Elite +5% or less 25% of the time it normally takes
Veteran +10% or less 15% of the time it normally takes
Regular +20% or less 5%
Green +30%
Astech +50% or add 25% to the time it normally takes
Salvaged component +25% price to install
This is only a guideline if you wanted to use a no-roll system.
Customisation is a whole different kettle of fish and something I strongly suggest against in short campaigns or during active contracts. Even the teo small lasers swapping in for a medium laser is not that straight forward since taking up more critical space means the centre of gravity has changed not only for the location but for the mech putting varying degrees of change on the internal structure, armour location and locations lower on the unit than was previously calculated. Even changes like PPC upgrading to a ER PPC could be a difficult proceedure as the cabling may need to be changed right back to the engine to accommodate 50% greater energy requirements, this too may lead to modification of the engine energy couplings since they may never have been designed to connect such cables, or changed sizes of the cables may make what wasn't a problem before become one now (i.e. thicker cable for a specific energy weapon gets snagged in the shoulder actuator where previously it only just fitted.
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Christopher_Perkins
03/09/08 12:07 PM
24.125.201.179
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GreySlayer...
Do you have a "No roll" method for Gunnery and Piloting as well?
Why not? Those are also Skill dependent tasks.
What you have come up with looks good but its a Suppliment to the rolls in time and costs, but NOT as a replacement for the rolls.
The Engineering Skills are involved doing a new design or even in anything that will affect the load out of a Mech or Vehicle.
The Technician / Mechanic Skills are involved in anything that actually happens, even down to the simple tasks like changing out a power cable
Christopher Robin Perkins
It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
Edited by Christopher_Perkins (03/09/08 12:09 PM)
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Greyslayer
03/09/08 07:07 PM
216.14.198.51
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Quote:
Do you have a "No roll" method for Gunnery and Piloting as well?
Why not? Those are also Skill dependent tasks.
You obviously don't read what is required in this subject. While it is all well and good to roll for every little thing the person wanted to know ways to either speed up or limit paper-work and the gm having to view rolls constantly when repairs and salvage are involved.
What I suggested was a simple way to change the ratio of the time spent preparing, repairing for a fight to actual fighting. A simple spreadsheet can calculate the requirements of time and c-bills (or house bills if that floats your boat) for the repairs, everyone has a copy of what is happening and the game smoothly flows on from there.
This was only a suggested method for the question raised hence the direct response to the original question. It does not account for refitting a mech, customisation or new loadout designs as I am not a big fan of customs hence I make changes very difficult.
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What you have come up with looks good but its a Suppliment to the rolls in time and costs, but NOT as a replacement for the rolls.
I fail to see how something that completely removes the need to roll for repairs as being 'supplemental' to the repairing process. If you want to play the game for the hours of paperwork and rolling right up to what would be comparitively a short fight then go for it. For those who do not want to role-play every aspect of the game then they need to look for strategies that minimise time wastage, especially in the example of what happened in our mercenary contracts where each player had a unit and each competed for time from the GM.
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The Engineering Skills are involved doing a new design or even in anything that will affect the load out of a Mech or Vehicle.
The Technician / Mechanic Skills are involved in anything that actually happens, even down to the simple tasks like changing out a power cable
Which is great if you are either playing Mechwarrior 2 and 3 RPG rules but not if you are playing a more basic level using Maximum Tech without the character archtypes from those broken RPG sets.
Customisation, the changing of loadouts etc, again is a subset of the main question, that being Repairs. Customisation and salvage would be much better explained depending on the system they use and the end result the GM wants. Max Tech and subsequent Rule Books had general rules on salvaging mechs from the basic 10+ you can salvage anything to being able to repair a destroyed location on a 10+ (though make that a once-off roll rather than the often cheesey use a Green, then a Reg etc). Customisation was, while extensively discussed in Max Tech, not defined to the level many GMs would be happy to run with.
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Christopher_Perkins
03/10/08 01:22 AM
24.125.201.179
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Quote:
Quote:
Do you have a "No roll" method for Gunnery and Piloting as well?
Why not? Those are also Skill dependent tasks.
You obviously don't read what is required in this subject.
Repairing without rolls is a "Magic Genie Method"...
Heck, Rolling Only Once for each BattleMech is "Magic Genie", but at least gives a chance for failure
In the Real world and the BattleTech universe throwing time and money at something is no gurantor of success... it just makes success more likely...
IOW there is always the chance of rolling snake eyes...
or dividing by 14 days when you should be dividing by 10 working days...
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While it is all well and good to roll for every little thing the person wanted to know ways to either speed up or limit paper-work and the gm having to view rolls constantly when repairs and salvage are involved.
Rick Raisleys RUS or any random number Generator would do it just as easliy as your no roll system... and provide the chance of failing that exists in the BattleTech Universe...
Quote:
What I suggested was a simple way to change the ratio of the time spent preparing, repairing for a fight to actual fighting. A simple spreadsheet can calculate the requirements of time and c-bills (or house bills if that floats your boat) for the repairs, everyone has a copy of what is happening and the game smoothly flows on from there.
a Simple spreadsheet could calculate the targets, and if you have a good random number generator roll the success or failure of the Repair...
OTOH i would suggest a random number generator that outputs a text file with each roll earmarked... say with a tech skill, repair, repair target, and result
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Quote:
What you have come up with looks good but its a Suppliment to the rolls in time and costs, but NOT as a replacement for the rolls.
I fail to see how something that completely removes the need to roll for repairs as being 'supplemental' to the repairing process.
I was expressly stating that they way that you wanted to do it looked too much like magic.
Speeding Up costs money, Check
Using More Time can increase the Likely hood of Success and therefore samve money by requireing less repetitions... Check
Removing any chance at all of failing? Disagree Completely
Quote:
If you want to play the game for the hours of paperwork and rolling right up to what would be comparitively a short fight then go for it. For those who do not want to role-play every aspect of the game then they need to look for strategies that minimise time wastage, especially in the example of what happened in our mercenary contracts where each player had a unit and each competed for time from the GM.
Create a table of the needed repairs, and the targets for the repairs
then run a random number generator against the repairs...
a couple of a thousand rolls in a number of seconds, when you are off doing other things...
then you know what repairs were messed up, and whither or not it can be repeated
this is something that the GM would be running anyway and only rarely would be something that would take up actual table time
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Quote:
The Engineering Skills are involved doing a new design or even in anything that will affect the load out of a Mech or Vehicle.
The Technician / Mechanic Skills are involved in anything that actually happens, even down to the simple tasks like changing out a power cable
Which is great if you are either playing Mechwarrior 2 and 3 RPG rules but not if you are playing a more basic level using Maximum Tech without the character archtypes from those broken RPG sets.
IIRC Maximum Tech had the Technicians using the same Skill Targets as their Mechwarrior... is this not so?
Customizations in Maximum Tech had you rolling to check to see if the customization was balanced or not - Engieering Skill Emulated by Tech with Same Engineering Skill as Mechwarriors Gunnery, IIRC
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Customisation, the changing of loadouts etc, again is a subset of the main question, that being Repairs. Customisation and salvage would be much better explained depending on the system they use and the end result the GM wants.
not sure what your point is here, BattleTech doesnt ignore the chance of a Technician Failing... and a GM with a Spreadsheet can easily find a Random Number Generator that they can post the results for
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Max Tech and subsequent Rule Books had general rules on salvaging mechs from the basic 10+ you can salvage anything to being able to repair a destroyed location on a 10+ (though make that a once-off roll rather than the often cheesey use a Green, then a Reg etc). Customisation was, while extensively discussed in Max Tech, not defined to the level many GMs would be happy to run with.
Right, and for some reason the PTB think that they would not have to redo the more extensive Repair, Customization and Salvage Rules from BattleTech RPG 1st Edition because they assume that the Coverage of these three related tasks will be adequate in Tactical Operations Manual... somehow, i do nto think that they will give adequate coverage to it, with BattleTech RPG 3rd Edition Skills (2d10) being so different from BattleTech (2d6)...
OTOH, there was the Customization rules in the Map Pack Solaris VII suppliment to Mechwarrior's Guide to Solaris VII which was more in depth a treatment of this than I have seen in the last decade or so...
Christopher Robin Perkins
It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
07/12/08 03:55 PM
72.58.171.148
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I agree with the don't waist time rolling everything. I don't want to take hours out of game play to be rolling dice for every little thing. If nitpicking every little thing flouts your boat go for it. Just don't expect me to do it also. I play the game to have fun and your way of playing is as fun as watching grass grow. Some people just see it as a game to be entertained by.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Christopher_Perkins
07/12/08 11:30 PM
24.125.201.167
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Even if you distill the repairs to a single roll for the Tech Team (Up to 6 AsTechs and A Tech) Per Mech (Who Knows How Many Repairs) there should still be a failure chance.
The Person SPECIFICLY requested that it not be a Magic Solution... Anything that does not provide a chance of Failure (even if very remote, such as fireing with Pulse Laser at short range - it still requires a roll) is Magic.
Christopher Robin Perkins
It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
07/13/08 11:31 AM
72.58.140.26
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Like I said if thats what floats your boat go for it. There are people that love getting into the smallest details. For example, Star Trek publishes books that show to the smallest detail of the ST tech ships to tricorders. BT does have some stuff like that but it does not go as deep as ST or SW does.
I once got into a on line roll play based off of Star Wars. Well it ended not to soon after it started because people just argued about how many angels can fit on the head of a pin. The smaller you get into details the more things are just going to be bogged down in arguments. The way I see it. If its getting in the way of having fun trash it. I see rolling repairs when your not presses for time for a fight as just wasting time of game play. So I trash the repair dice rolling. You and others can do all of that dice rolling if you want but not me.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Dester
07/14/08 12:33 PM
216.57.96.1
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For me the failed repair only comes in to play when you are rushed for time. If a tech has all the time he needs, he can properly test and correct any errors in replacement or reapairs he is doing before it is destoryed beyond repair. He has time to go as super tech Bob for any tricks, advice ect..., Study a manual, and work with the mechwarrior to fully test out something.
If you are lacking that time freedom, I assume the tech slaps in the replacement/ repair with little testing of the part and it depends on his skill (ie now he has to roll) as even the most competent tech will forget something once in awhile, and it is this that will fail on the battlefield or give the 'partial repaired' effect.
With enough time, any tech can do the repair with out failing.
That all said, you really have to tailor the repair, salvage and maintance to your players. Some will be the super bean counters that enjoy tracking down a mertel med. laser to replace the one that got destroyed an will only reluctantly give up and try to make a "custom" change to their mech after much hunting. Others just want to get on with the battle and to them a med laser is a med laser.
There is no right or wrong answer here beyond what works for your players. Anyone that wants to run a game should proably start somewhere in the middle and work with their players to refine the system that is enjoyable and fair to both the players and the GM.
Dester
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Christopher_Perkins
07/19/08 02:55 AM
24.125.201.167
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Quote:
For me the failed repair only comes in to play when you are rushed for time. If a tech has all the time he needs, he can properly test and correct any errors in replacement or reapairs he is doing before it is destoryed beyond repair. He has time to go as super tech Bob for any tricks, advice ect..., Study a manual, and work with the mechwarrior to fully test out something.
Even Veteran Techs with 20 years of experience doing battlefield repairs can mess up, and not even just when they are rushing...
How Many times have you reached for a screw driver when you are workign on a computers harddrive and realized only afterward that you fried it with a Magnetic Screwdriver? (easy mistake, even if you are using your own tools)
Chance happens, even in real life.
Quote:
With enough time, any tech can do the repair with out failing.
Again, chance happens, even in real life... and if you screw it up enough, some times it is necessary to kick it up the chain
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That all said, you really have to tailor the repair, salvage and maintance to your players. Some will be the super bean counters that enjoy tracking down a mertel med. laser to replace the one that got destroyed an will only reluctantly give up and try to make a "custom" change to their mech after much hunting. Others just want to get on with the battle and to them a med laser is a med laser.
Right, but a system that removes even the slightest chance of Error (like instant Magical Fix by throwing C-Bills or hours at the issue as opposed to even a Single Dice Roll per Combat Unit) is something that falls under the "no magic" clause in the original request.
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There is no right or wrong answer here beyond what works for your players. Anyone that wants to run a game should proably start somewhere in the middle and work with their players to refine the system that is enjoyable and fair to both the players and the GM.
Exactly... but there is also tailoring the response to what was requested.
Christopher Robin Perkins
It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
07/19/08 03:39 PM
72.58.185.155
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Christopher_Perkins your not going to win this. We just want to get on with playing the silly game. Being rule pricks is not what we want to be. We just want to have fun playing a silly game. The thing is most players hate rule pricks because everything has to come to a complete stop just to make the rule prick happy about some stupid thing that does not matter at all. I remember one game of D&D we had a rule prick that was always stopping the game. The DM got tired of it. Well after the DM said thats enough. Every time the rule prick wanted to argue the DM would say that the person in game was waving a rule book around complaining to the gods that something was not right. For some reason he never came back after that day. The rest of us where not complaining that he never returned. When worrying about nit picking rules gets in the way of enjoying the game people don't want to play the game.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
07/19/08 04:16 PM
72.58.185.155
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Crash getting back to what you asked.
Quote:
Going through my old stuff I realized that in our group it was waaaay too easy repair, salvage and customize 'Mechs in our on-going units. I've already decided that we're gonna cut down the customized 'Mechs to the bone, but I was wondering:
Does anyone have a quick, easy system for repairing 'Mech and paying for parts? As a GM, I don't want to have to sit and watch you "roll for repair" on all your 'Mechs after every battle. But I don't want to give players the "magic genie" ability either.
As the amount of damage that has to be repaired goes up you could make the players roll only the more serese damage and let the lesser stuff slide. You could also have them roll every so often on the lesser stuff. Like every other roll or every 5 rolls so on and so forth.
Quote:
Also, how much do you let players salvage damaged/destroyed 'Mechs? I don't want to stifle the growth of the player's units, but I also don't want them repairing burned out shells to combat ready machines...
I have an idea if the mech loses its center torso hits it can only be salvaged for parts. Or you could say if it lost any of the three torsos its only good for parts. Of course if it blew up all thats left is metal to be melted down to be recycled. If it survived an ammo explosion some how I would say its trashed. You would have to decide on a case to case bases.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Christopher_Perkins
07/20/08 08:14 PM
24.125.201.167
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[quote="Donkey"]Christopher_Perkins your not going to win this.
[quote="donkey"]
As the amount of damage that has to be repaired goes up you could make the players roll only the more serese damage and let the lesser stuff slide. You could also have them roll every so often on the lesser stuff. Like every other roll or every 5 rolls so on and so forth.
odd, looks like you finally twigged to what i was saying >:)
Christopher Robin Perkins
It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
07/20/08 09:26 PM
70.0.143.60
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You said nothing of the kind. You said that every little minor thing has to be rolled to find everything that could possibly go wrong. As for my own campaigns. If it is not being repaired during an attack. Its fixed with out rolling the dice.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Christopher_Perkins
07/22/08 01:27 AM
24.125.201.167
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Donkey... A little reading helps... at least once in a while...
I direct your attention to this post.
Quote:
Even if you distill the repairs to a single roll for the Tech Team (Up to 6 AsTechs and A Tech) Per Mech (Who Knows How Many Repairs) there should still be a failure chance.
The Person SPECIFICLY requested that it not be a Magic Solution... Anything that does not provide a chance of Failure (even if very remote, such as fireing with Pulse Laser at short range - it still requires a roll) is Magic.
Rolling for all the Repairs Recognized at the RPG Level
Pro - its granular and abstracts somewhat the complexity of the repairs in real life
Con - Requires RUS or some random number generator to actually be accomplish-able in a gaming session
A-LA-Money and Time Solution
Pro - No Rolls
Con - No Chance of Failure... and is Magic
Rolling Once Per Mech (combining all the rolls for 6 characters and numerous repairs into a single roll)
Pro - Can be done quickly without a computer, and still provides a chance of failure
Con - Not Granular...
Christopher Robin Perkins
It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
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Greyslayer
07/22/08 07:33 PM
216.14.198.60
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This 'chance of failure' is rubbish by the way. If the player allocates enough time in the normal game of 'classic' battletech the result WILL NOT FAIL. There is no provision for a snake eyes results in automatic failure except in the RPG.
The 'magic' system assumes that a certain predetermined percentage of failures will occur but rather than the failure being with the major component it is with the affiliated components such as cables, feed mechanisms etc that failure will occur.
This depends on what you want to get out of the game a dice-heavy, little gameplay roleplaying game or a strategic roleplaying game.
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Christopher_Perkins
08/03/08 11:21 AM
24.125.201.167
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Quote:
This depends on what you want to get out of the game a dice-heavy, little gameplay roleplaying game or a strategic roleplaying game.
Humm, true enough... how were repairs handled in BattleForce 2
IIRC that was granular down to the single maneuver unit level
Christopher Robin Perkins
It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
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Greyslayer
08/07/08 08:10 PM
216.14.198.53
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Quote:
Humm, true enough... how were repairs handled in BattleForce 2
I would have like to use the systel overall (BF2) but it was sooo buggy it wasn't funny, didn't even half look at the repair system. Probably the system you would be better looking at would be Tactical Handbook campaign that used combat and logistic pools to pay for repairs etc.
Quote:
IIRC that was granular down to the single maneuver unit level
About the same level of non-thought as winning initiative in whole armies move and fire first games like Warhammer 40k, Warhammer Fantasy and the like.
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Christopher_Perkins
09/09/08 02:21 AM
24.125.201.167
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well,, the inniative and number of units move is an easy rule to alter...
but the granualrity comes in that you could easily have the BF2 based Chits as the record sheet and move individual mineratures around...
Heck... that, in a nutshell looks like JKW (the SoiDistant Creator - He that breezes into and away from the orbit of BattleTech Every so often) took BattleForce 1&2, disliked the name "BattleForce" {ewwww} and reallocated the Name of the Flagship Line to his mini-based collectable game
Christopher Robin Perkins
It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
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