Tripod
05/21/07 07:12 AM
192.94.94.106
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Discuss...
same ammo per ton...
Lrm 5's are 2 more heat
Lrm 5's are 1 less crit, can be split among locations...
Lrm 20's artimis IV is 3 tons lighter 
Lrm 20's get 5 point clusters before plinking for 2-3...
...Lrm 5's more chance's for crit's?
Lrm 5's have 4 chances to hit...but 4 chances to miss.... i belive this is where the discussion need to be focused. along with the dicection of the missile hit table. what are your opinions on the law of averages and realistic probabilities. should you put all your eggs in one basket and make one to-hit-roll with a 20 rack?
i look forward to your opinions/facts
TBA
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Cray
05/21/07 09:09 AM
147.160.136.10
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The heat issue can be an issue with SHS, but the tonnage savings tend to make up for it.
Though large LRM launchers work better with Artemis, SG-LRMs or Narc-compatible ammo moot that advantage.
And at elevated target numbers (roughly 8 or higher) the additional chances to hit with multiple small LRM launchers are a positive advantage.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Tripod
05/21/07 10:25 AM
12.49.227.238
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so, you save one crit with 4 5's, but if you invest the 2 tons saved into heat sinks, you end up +1 crit used...
what about the chances of all 20 hiting vs all 5 hiting 4 times? im no math whizz but im sure someone here is, is it a better "average" damage with 4 5's?
TBA
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Cray
05/21/07 02:06 PM
147.160.136.10
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Quote:
so, you save one crit with 4 5's, but if you invest the 2 tons saved into heat sinks, you end up +1 crit used...
what about the chances of all 20 hiting vs all 5 hiting 4 times? im no math whizz but im sure someone here is, is it a better "average" damage with 4 5's?
For a given target number, damage averages out to be the same in the long run. Distribution is a bit different, since you'll have smaller missile groups with LRM 5s, but the total damage averages out to be the same.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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KamikazeJohnson
06/03/07 12:34 AM
207.161.3.88
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The damage curve will be flatter with the 20-rack, i.e. better chance of max dmg, but also better chance of min dmg. I haven't verified the probabilities, but assuming the designers did their work properly on the hit tables, average dmg should pretty much even out.
I personally prefer the 4 small racks for L1 designs because it allows for more flexible heat moderation (you don't have to go all or nothing, plus its 2 more heat dissipation for close-range weaponry), and because I love goofy weapons lijke small missile racks and light ACs 
For L2 Artemis IV is a major point in favour of the larger rack. However, in general I usually favour the LRM-15 over the 20.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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Tripod
06/03/07 08:18 AM
12.49.227.185
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i have heard people say that the LRM 10 is the most useless weapon in the game. it's 1 ton heavier than 2 lrm 5's, 1 more heat, same crit/ammo. did i miss something?
TBA
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Karagin
06/03/07 11:36 AM
24.26.220.4
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Everyone has an opinion or idea of what is useless in this game. I vote that we get rid of the Rocket Launchers and their use on mechs. Make the a vehicle only weapon system...
LRM10s are okay they do weigh more then 2 LRM5s sure but they are a single system, not two chances to have ammo blow up in two different parts of the mech.
And one thing the folks who will take 4 LRM5s over a single LRM20 are the same folks who must pilot mechs with pulse lasers and targcomp and have to have enough heat sinks to fire them etc...in other words they are normally the munchkin brigade. They want to the damage spread to give them chances for crits and thus making it fun for only them.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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OgreMagi
08/28/07 10:28 AM
69.2.76.201
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the 4x lrm 5 on a level 1 mech is a fair trade off. given that you can save on the ammo, a lrm 5 has what? 12 shots per ton so you can save a little mass in having to mount only 2 to 3 tons of ammo, vurses a lrm 20 that would need 3 to 4 tons of ammo for a simmilar number of shots. One nice advantage ( entioned previously) that if ya get into a heat problem you can allways not fire 1 or 2 or the lrm 5's so you will have a chance to do a littel damage...
The average damage, on a four rack lrm 5, will be decreased if they all hit compaired to a lrm 20 but the LRm 20 is all or nothing. so figure a 50% hit/ miss with average missle rolls then the LRm 5 will do more damamge consistantly. If you fighiting vehicles or need a steady amount of damamge the LRm5s are the way to go.
Artmis does change the average, a lrm 20 with Artmis does more damage even misssing 50% of the time but adding Artmis to the four lrm 5 launchers adds 4 tons and is genrall not worth it.
My choice is the LRm 15 with artmis, its much lighter than the 20, the artmis gives almost the same damamge curve as a standard lrm 20, and usually only 2 tons of ammo is needed.....
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Dester
10/08/07 01:15 PM
216.57.96.1
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Its my personal opinion that they screwed up when making the LRMs originally, but now its to embedded into the game to change so now we have these little oddities.
LRM-5 = 2 tons
LRM-10 = 5 tons
LRM-15 = 3 tons
LRM-20 = 10 tons
The problem is LRM-5s and LRM-15s weigh in as to little they shoudl be 2.5 and 7.5 respectively.
/shrug but level 1 tech aside... if your using 4 LRM-5 instead of 1 LRM-20 your either munchining or don't have the space / desire to put all your LRMs into one location.
one other thing to remember
4 LRM-5s = 8 heat
1 LRM-20 = 6 heat
so the 2 tons you saved need to go to heat sinks to make up the difference.
Dester
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johnstark
10/08/07 03:24 PM
24.2.153.123
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Quote:
the 4x lrm 5 on a level 1 mech is a fair trade off. given that you can save on the ammo, a lrm 5 has what? 12 shots per ton so you can save a little mass in having to mount only 2 to 3 tons of ammo, vurses a lrm 20 that would need 3 to 4 tons of ammo for a simmilar number of shots. One nice advantage ( entioned previously) that if ya get into a heat problem you can allways not fire 1 or 2 or the lrm 5's so you will have a chance to do a littel damage...
LRM ammo is 120 missiles per done, regardless of the size of the launcher. SRMS suffer from 'large rack' syndrome, but LRMs do not. This means you get the same amount of damage potential out of a ton of ammo regardless. The LRM-20 does slightly more damage per hit, but as pointed out the 4xLRM-5 has a greater chance of causing SOME damage. Keep in mind, however, that every time the LRM-20 hits, the LRM-5 is also more likely to miss with one or two shots.
The primary reason for 4xLRM-5 is selectability. 4xLRM-5 lets you use less firepower against softer targets (like infantry platoons that are down to the last squad.)
Quote:
My choice is the LRm 15 with artmis, its much lighter than the 20, the artmis gives almost the same damamge curve as a standard lrm 20, and usually only 2 tons of ammo is needed.....
Artemis FCS does VERY significantly change the mechanic here. 1 AIV FCS will do for the 20 but you need four independent systems each adding an average of a single point of damage to the LRM-5 launchers. NARC Beacons are better for LRM-5s but again, the effect is much stronger on LRM-20s.
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Greyslayer
10/09/07 10:30 AM
216.14.198.52
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I thought the rules meant that all LRM hits are grouped into 5s and applied like this, regardless of whether it was from 4xLRM5s or 1xLRM20.
For example:
2 x LRM5s hit with 3,3 for a total of 6 hits meaning damage is applied 5 and 1 not 3 and 3.
I'll see if I can dig up my gripe here sometime back on the maths of the LRM launchers.
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Greyslayer
10/09/07 10:46 AM
216.14.198.56
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Quote:
I'll see if I can dig up my gripe here sometime back on the maths of the LRM launchers.
Nothing like a bit of thread necromancy..... 
LRM5 v Larger Launchers Comparison
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johnstark
10/09/07 02:10 PM
24.2.153.123
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Quote:
I thought the rules meant that all LRM hits are grouped into 5s and applied like this, regardless of whether it was from 4xLRM5s or 1xLRM20.
For example:
2 x LRM5s hit with 3,3 for a total of 6 hits meaning damage is applied 5 and 1 not 3 and 3.
Each launcher's missiles are treated as a separate volley. so four LRM-5s hitting for 3, 3, 2 and 2 (average) will hit four times for 3, 3, 2, and 2. An LRM-20 hitting for 12 (average) will hit three times for 5, 5 and 2.
But that's assuming all launchers hit. :P
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
07/12/08 09:12 PM
72.58.171.148
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my self I don't like missiles of any kind. I would take a PPC over any missiles. But if you like them go for it. I would take a missile system over a AC. ACs are just to heavy for light weight damage.
If I am going to have missiles I will use the MRMs over the LRM or SRM. Yes I know MRM is L3 tech
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Greyslayer
07/15/08 04:52 AM
216.14.198.61
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MRM and the new MML launchers are standard launchers now though found more commonly in specific factions such as the Draconis Combine for the MRM.
Most people find the +1 to hit with the MRM to be a real pain with 'average' pilots and the new AMS rules do Nerf the larger MRM launchers somewhat.
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Roadkill
10/25/08 07:27 PM
86.25.188.29
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no-ones mentioned that 5s get through ams easier!
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Lafeel
10/25/08 07:36 PM
157.157.73.13
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Quote:
no-ones mentioned that 5s get through ams easier!
How do you figure that?
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Tripod
10/26/08 03:26 AM
192.91.75.29
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would that be the new or old AMS rules?
TBA
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