KitK
07/31/09 05:17 PM
198.169.14.82
|
I shouldn't do number crunching. I am just good at missing things and making mistakes. But, I did it anyway.
The way I have it figured, if you fire a medium laser and a medium pulse laser 100 times at ranges 1-9 (the medium pulse missing 100 times at ranges 7-9), and assuming the attacker walked and the target moved 5, the medium pulse laser out performs the medium laser for gunnery skills of 5, 4, and 3.
But that isn't totally fair, because for every 1 medium pulse laser, you have enough weight invested to mount 2 medium lasers. So, doing the same thing with 1 pulse and 2 standard lasers, the pulse laser still out performs the standard lasers at gunnery of 5. At gunnery 4, the standard lasers surpass the pulse laser but just barely. For gunnery of 3, the standard lasers are mopping the battlefield with the pulse laser.
So, is the medium pulse a viable alternative for the medium laser? Well it depends. If it is a choice of one or the other, the pulse laser is looking pretty good, beating the medium laser in damage for all 10 to hit possibilities (though 11 and 12 are pretty even). If it is a matter of taking 2 medium lasers or 1 pulse laser, well then it looks to be a matter of piloting skills. A skill-3 gunner wants standard lasers. A 4 doesn't care. And, a 5 is begging for pulse lasers.
Some of this is intuitive, right? Duh - give the worst pilot the pulse lasers so he/she actually hits something. And, a -2 hit bonus with 1 more point of damage will get more hits and do more damage. What is interesting is that over time (100 turns) and space (you won't always be firing out of pulse laser range), the pulse lasers bemoaned short range isn't that big of a factor. And secondly, performance is more situational than some hardcoded aspect of the weapons' properties.
KK
|
Venom
08/01/09 05:24 AM
207.191.200.101
|
Quote:
But that isn't totally fair, because for every 1 medium pulse laser, you have enough weight invested to mount 2 medium lasers. So, doing the same thing with 1 pulse and 2 standard lasers, the pulse laser still out performs the standard lasers at gunnery of 5. At gunnery 4, the standard lasers surpass the pulse laser but just barely. For gunnery of 3, the standard lasers are mopping the battlefield with the pulse laser.[quote/]
While you have not acconted for the HS invested in the additional ML, the point is made moot by the second part of the paragraph. Since no IS crew/warrior(for a PC) starts with a 5 gunnery skill the argument for the MPL is void. With the standard lasers out-performing the MPLs with a 4 gunnery(which is the base for PCs) it just goes to prove that you cannot improve the Medium Laser. Seriously, WarShips should have batteries of them! 
|
Christopher_Perkins
08/01/09 09:55 AM
24.127.68.31
|
at what point does Medium Pulse and its HS and Medium and its HS Balance out?
MPL 4 Heat 6 Damage - 2 Tons - Account for as 6 Tons
ML 3 Heat 5 Damage - 1 Ton - Account for as 4 Tons
so... How do 6 ML Stack up against 4 MPL?
6 * 5 = 35
4 * 6 = 24
In Damage at this level... ML wins out by a margin of 13 pts...
so Vehicles would probably go better with the ML Route.
how does this stack up when you factor in the probablilities of hitting with 6 ML and 4 MPL?
Christopher Robin Perkins
It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
|
Cray
08/01/09 11:31 AM
68.205.198.74
|
Don't forget to compare the lasers by range, too. There are ranges (3, 5, 6) where the medium laser's target numbers where the medium laser gets a -2 bonus in comparison to the ML (or, rather, where the MPL's advantage disappears.) The extra point of damage is evident at ranges where TNs are equal (3,5,6)
The following comparison of average damages is at a base target number of 8 (factoring in range, gunnery, terrain, etc.) before applying weapon-specific bonuses. (If the column headings aren't clear, then from left to right the columns are range in hexes, damage of 1 medium laser, 1 medium pulse laser, 2 medium lasers, 1 ER medium laser).
Code:
Rng ML MPL 2 ML ER ML
1 2.08 4.33 4.17 2.08
2 2.08 4.33 4.17 2.08
3 2.08 2.50 4.17 2.08
4 0.83 2.50 1.67 2.08
5 0.83 1.00 1.67 0.83
6 0.83 1.00 1.67 0.83
7 0.14 0.00 0.28 0.83
8 0.14 0.00 0.28 0.83
9 0.14 0.00 0.28 0.14
10 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.14
11 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.14
12 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.14
This comparison is at base target 6:
Code:
Rng ML MPL 2 ML ER ML
1 3.61 5.50 7.22 3.61
2 3.61 5.50 7.22 3.61
3 3.61 4.33 7.22 3.61
4 2.08 4.33 4.17 3.61
5 2.08 2.50 4.17 2.08
6 2.08 2.50 4.17 2.08
7 0.83 0.00 1.67 2.08
8 0.83 0.00 1.67 2.08
9 0.83 0.00 1.67 0.83
10 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.83
11 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.83
12 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.83
And this is at base target 10:
Code:
Rng ML MPL 2 ML ER ML
1 0.83 2.50 1.67 0.83
2 0.83 2.50 1.67 0.83
3 0.83 1.00 1.67 0.83
4 0.14 1.00 0.28 0.83
5 0.14 0.17 0.28 0.14
6 0.14 0.17 0.28 0.14
7 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.14
8 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.14
9 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00
10 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00
11 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00
12 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00
Conclusion: the MPL usually has an advantage of the plain ML on a 1-for-1 basis, and sometimes compared to 2 MLs. The -2 to-hit bonus of the MPL can be a powerful damage multiplier. However, it only has a range of 6.
Clan medium pulse lasers (range 12) are another matter entirely.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
|
KitK
08/03/09 01:33 AM
71.17.31.164
|
Quote:
While you have not acconted for the HS invested in the additional ML, the point is made moot by the second part of the paragraph. Since no IS crew/warrior(for a PC) starts with a 5 gunnery skill the argument for the MPL is void. With the standard lasers out-performing the MPLs with a 4 gunnery(which is the base for PCs) it just goes to prove that you cannot improve the Medium Laser. Seriously, WarShips should have batteries of them!
Well, lets see. No, I did not take heat generation into account. That was purposeful to narrow the hypothesis. Weapons can be compared in at least 4 areas - damage generation, weight, heat, and critical space. I have often tried to do a comprehensive comparison, but I haven't figured out how to do a good composite score. So, here I am focusing on damage generation, but also recognizing that in this case, the weight differential has a practical impact on the damage generation. Heat here is semi-moot. 1 vs 1 the MPL creates more, 1 vs 2 the MLs produce more. In the world of double heatsinks, I figure the heat will be covered.
Sorry, I can't figure out "PC." It's probably obvioius and might change my answer, but here's what I got so far. 4 is the average gunnery skill for Inner Sphere pilots (Average Skills Table, BMRR, p.16; TW, p.40). To be the average there must be skills both higher and lower. This is further brought out by the Random Skills Table (Extended) (BMRR, p.114; TW, p.273). The table demonstrates that 4 gunnery is mainly in line with regular and some vetern pilots. But, it is possible to have green pilots with gunnery skills as low as 7. I would suggest that periphery pirates and rag-tag, periphery, merc units could easily have pilots in the 5 to 7 range. They may even exist in house units. With all the warfare and destruction between the Clan Invation and the Jihad the skill pool must be shrinking. The Davions and Steiners could be in really tough shape in the skill pools after their civil war.
Quote:
it just goes to prove that you cannot improve the Medium Laser
In the 1-on-1 comparison, over time and space, clearly it has been improved upon. On the other hand, I think you are probably right because of the 2-on-1 comparision and the situational factors that keep giving the old medium laser and edge over its pulsating spin-off. The medium laser is a one-size-fits-all "work horse." The pulse laser must be expoited or it will just be a frustrating under-achiever.
|
KitK
08/05/09 01:40 PM
198.169.14.120
|
Maybe I've got the wrong question here. Maybe instead of max damage (chances of both medium lasers hitting) I should be asking what the chances are that at least 1 of the 2 will hit?
P(ML1) + P(ML2) - P(ML1 and ML2) where P(ML1 and ML2)= P(ML1) * P(ML2)
It gives a difficult number to think about because it compares the pulse laser's max damage against the medium lasers' minimum damage. I am not sure how to factor in both conditions (1 hits, both hit) to make the results comparable again, so I can plug them into the scenario.
KK
|
|
|
Extra information
|
0 registered and 51 anonymous users are browsing this forum.
Moderator: Nic Jansma, Cray, Frabby, BobTheZombie
Print Topic
|
Forum Permissions
You cannot start new topics
You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled
UBBCode is enabled
|
Topic views: 6502
|
|
|
|
|
|
|