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03/09/14 02:55 PM
76.7.238.202
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An upgrade of the original Harasser SRM platform.
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Harasser Weapons Platform Mr. Toast And Go IS Introductory Box Set 25 tons BV: 293 Cost: 613,750 C-bills Source: Succession Wars
Movement: 11/17 (Hover) Engine: 145
Internal: 15 Armor: 72 Internal Armor Front 3 18 Right 3 12 Left 3 12 Rear 3 12 Turret 3 18
Weapons Loc Heat Flamer TU 3 Flamer TU 3 Flamer TU 3 Flamer TU 3
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Karagin
03/09/14 02:58 PM
70.118.139.48
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Why waste 2 tons plus the weight of the flamer to gain a fourth flamer? The two tons could have gone into MGs or more armor or if you wanted to give it a bit of higher tech an AMS...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
03/09/14 02:59 PM
70.118.139.48
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A better use of the 3 tons wasted on the fourth flamer:
Code: BattleTech Vehicle Technical Readout VALIDATED
Type/Model: Take 3 Tech: Inner Sphere / 3060 Config: Hovercraft Rules: Level 3, Standard design
Mass: 25 tons Power Plant: 145 Leenex Fusion Cruise Speed: 118.8 km/h Maximum Speed: 183.6 km/h Armor Type: Standard Armament: 3 Flamers 1 Anti-Missile System 1 Guardian ECM Manufacturer: (Unknown) Location: (Unknown) Communications System: (Unknown) Targeting & Tracking System: (Unknown)
-------------------------------------------------------- Type/Model: Take 3 Mass: 25 tons
Equipment: Items Mass Int. Struct.: 15 pts Standard 0 2.50 Engine: 145 Fusion 0 5.00 Shielding & Transmission Equipment: 0 2.50 Cruise MP: 11 Flank MP: 17 Heat Sinks: 10 Single 0 .00 Cockpit & Controls: 0 1.50 Crew: 2 Members 0 .00 Lift Equipment: 0 2.50 Turret Equipment: 0 .50 Armor Factor: 72 pts Standard 0 4.50
Internal Armor Structure Value Front: 3 18 Left / Right Sides: 3 12/12 Rear: 3 12 Turret: 3 18
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Items Mass -------------------------------------------------------- 1 Flamer Turret 3 1 1.00 1 Flamer Turret 3 1 1.00 1 Flamer Turret 3 1 1.00 1 Anti-Missile System Turret 0 12 2 1.50 1 Guardian ECM Body 0 1 1.50 -------------------------------------------------------- TOTALS: 9 6 25.00 Items & Tons Left: 4 .00
Calculated Factors: Total Cost: 1,055,500 C-Bills Battle Value 2: 379 (old BV = 201) Cost per BV: 2,784.96 Weapon Value: 22 / 22 (Ratio = .06 / .06) Damage Factors: SRDmg = 2; MRDmg = 0; LRDmg = 0 BattleForce2: MP: 11H, Armor/Structure: 0 / 3 Damage PB/M/L: 1/-/-, Overheat: 0 Class: GL; Point Value: 4 Specials: ecm
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/09/14 03:04 PM
76.7.238.202
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Why an AMS and GECM on a hovercraft that's basically either going to dodge the barrage, or die by it.
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Karagin
03/09/14 03:09 PM
70.118.139.48
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Not every barrage is going to be indirect fire and if the AMS can buy the vehicle another turn maybe two then that is more then enough to warrant using it. The ECM should be self exlpaintory but I guess I shouldn't count on that since I would not want to be accused of misleading anyone, it helps confuse the enemy, then again given asinine ECM rules it's more of a gray area, but still it's there to allow the vehicle to have the ability to effect many of the systems in use.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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03/09/14 03:12 PM
76.7.238.202
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With the armor the Harasser has, the AMS won't buy any time.
The Harasser I posted was trying to copy MW:LL's Toast&Go variant of the Harasser, which had 6 flamers.
In addition your other harasser is about double the cost of mine.
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ghostrider
03/09/14 03:25 PM
66.27.181.33
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How is replacing srms with flamers an UPGRADE? I guess if you are trying to light every hex on fire in a single pass they would be.
Now as for price on this particular model, it is difficult to tell the price of yours since it doesn't show it.
The ams could very well buy time. Wiping out one volley that might have hit it otherwise would buy it time. Granted I think the ecm should be enough, and allow it to cover other units on a quiet approach.
Still don't know why flamers are considered an upgrade.
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03/09/14 03:35 PM
76.7.238.202
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Well, the time it's being used is during 3025, where poorer states will be using a bunch of infantry and the richer states still mostly have SHS mechs...
Picture 5 of these Harassers on an Awesome, roasting it up and making it barely workable. Or, if you like, modify the rules albeit so that 15 isn't the maximum heat a mech can take from outside sources, and make it 30 or something, so that the pilot gets roasted as well.
Check a bit closer, it's C-Bill price is shown.
AMS can NOT normally wipe out one volley. It only provides a -4 malus to one barrage's cluster hits table under normal rules and nothing more.
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ghostrider
03/09/14 03:50 PM
66.27.181.33
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bad die roll for the missiles that hit, good die roll for wiping them out. Yeah, it isn't gonna be a common occurance. Srm 2 and 4 packs with lrm 5 packs being the most common nullified. The speed is the biggest defense the unit has.
Putting it 15 on the scale means it fires one ppc every round, plus possible the small laser, and alternate fire on a second ppc. The third might be used to hit one of the buggers as it moves to the end of its driveby and starts to turn. Medium range for the flamers is about the closest you want to come to the awesome, or risk a punch against the vehicle. Most would use a kick, but if you miss, then you have issues.
Now imagine these buggers with say, 3 medium lasers. or keeping the srm 6 packs. doing the same thing.
One more thing. When did they bump the flamers up to 1 ton each? I thought they were half ton each..
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03/09/14 03:55 PM
76.7.238.202
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No, standard ballistic AMS will not reduce the roll below 2 at all. Only Laser AMS has the ability to do that. Because lasers?
Speaking of lasers, the MLs won't be able to roast a mech into oblivion. Which is the point of the flamers. Along with being basically a hovercraft Firestarter.
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ghostrider
03/09/14 04:03 PM
66.27.181.33
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You assume a few things with this. You are assuming a majority, if not all the flamers hitting each round. This is not likely. To get the maximum out of you defense, you will need to make passes on the unit, otherwise you go from 8+ hexes down to like 5-6.
Second. If the mech you are fighting doesn't have ammo, flaming it isn't as effective. If you had used an archer in your example it would have been more effective. Keeping the mech in a range that could cause an ammo explosion shows the heat tactic better. Yes it has medium lasers, but for each one it fires, it puts itself into a worse position for the ammo explosion.
I thought ams reduced the number of missile that could hit, with no minimum that could strike, ie if it wipes out 4 missles in a volley, and the volley only has 3 that could it, they are all destroyed with no other volleys being affected.
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03/09/14 04:08 PM
76.7.238.202
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If you have multiple Harassers you won't need to hit with a majority of flamers. And with many successful hits the target will slow down, making it easier for everyone to hit.
I never even considered the possibility of ammo explosions. That's a nice perk.
What AMS does is reduce the value of your roll for your cluster table by 4, to a minimum of 2.
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ghostrider
03/09/14 04:27 PM
66.27.181.33
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then they have changed the ams system like everything else. Sheesh.
So now we can expect to see a few more designs with flamers on them from you?
The ammo explosion might be why they capped the heat build up. Really annoying to do nothing but blow up in a game.
It is a tactic that works. I am more of a waster of money by having to replace armor alot type of guy. Direct combat makes the game sooo much faster. These other tactics slow it down alot.
But as I said, you would probably be in medium range when firing the flamers. Maybe long.
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Cray
03/10/14 06:07 PM
71.47.122.85
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Quote: One more thing. When did they bump the flamers up to 1 ton each? I thought they were half ton each..
Nope. Checking TR:3025 (I opened the book this time! ), the Firestarter's flamers are 1 ton each, and that's in 1986.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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03/10/14 06:39 PM
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Clan Flamers are the half-ton ones.
Strangely they don't seem to have half-ton ER flamers.
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ghostrider
03/11/14 12:10 AM
66.27.181.33
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Well damn. I was stuck on clan weights when thinking of using flamers. That was my mixup.
Now where does it say that you have to have ammo for it on a vehicle? If I recall that properly, all flamers on vehicles are stuck using ammo, even if they have a fusion engine on them.
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03/11/14 12:15 AM
72.214.204.166
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I think you recall incorrectly. It's the ICE and FCE that cannot use plasma Flamers.
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