BasinisBACK
01/06/18 10:31 AM
51.9.112.158
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I notice that there are a few posts pointing out flaws in the rules (especially regarding autocannons) and I've got another one.
I am vexed that the cluster hits table for 2-cluster weapons equates a '7' on 2D6 to only 1 cluster hitting when, as 7 is the average on 2D6, this means that ultra-autocannons will less than half the time. This seems a shame as they have to spend double ammo and heat for little gain.
Just a bugbear of mine, I'd probably alter the table to let '7' equal two hits, but seeing as the battletech rules are probably beyond fixing anyway, I might just let it slide.
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Cray
01/06/18 11:32 AM
67.8.228.37
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The cluster tables were reworked in Total Warfare to cover MRMs and weapons with odd numbers of tubes like MMLs, but twin-tube launchers and UACs still don't get a lot of love.
Considering how errata is frequently issued and feedback taken on current BT rules, have you considered going to the official forums and suggesting the outcome for 2-cluster weapons be tweaked? Successful change campaigns start with polling the players, seeing what they think of the idea, then posting a proposal to the "Ask the Line Developers" or rules forums if it survived player feedback.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Edited by Cray (01/06/18 11:47 AM)
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ghostrider
01/08/18 03:49 PM
66.74.61.223
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Then just purchasing the company and running it might be a bit easier.
But then who would you be able to complain at when something doesn't work? 
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csadn
01/09/18 10:50 PM
50.53.22.4
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Quote:
But then who would you be able to complain at when something doesn't work?
A mirror?
CF
Oregon: The "Outworlds Alliance" of the United States of America
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AmaroqStarwind
04/03/18 01:43 AM
99.203.27.104
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Once you run the company and realize something doesn't work right, complain at the fans for not telling you there was a problem and/or not suggesting a solution.
I'll try to get in contact with somebody at Catalyst about maybe fixing the Cluster table for 2-hit weapons. Until then, you could House Rule it to roll 3d6 and discard the worst die when using 2-hit weapons, or simply give them a flat +2 on Cluster Tables.
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
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Retry
04/03/18 09:36 AM
64.189.130.11
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I don't even roll on the cluster table for Ultras, I just roll to-hit for each shell. It's basically the same amount of rolling but the average damage is actually doubled from their vanilla AC variants, and there's also no more of those really wierd situations where you're rolling target #s of 2 due to an immobile target right in front of you yet still manage to hit with your full AC salvos only 40% of the time.
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AmaroqStarwind
04/04/18 12:38 PM
99.203.26.120
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I think, with Autocannons, especially Ultras... If you miss by just a hair, then the damage of each shot should still hit but in the form of a Cluster Weapon. Because if it's a giant rapid fire machine gun, firing dozens of shells at the target for every ten seconds, at least ONE of those shells will hit.
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
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ghostrider
04/05/18 01:02 AM
66.74.61.223
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I am on the fence with that one Retry.
As the actual number to hit is the key.
But I guess rolling a second time to see if the second shot hits would be a bit more realistic. I would also think a penalty of +1 would be fair to add accounting for the supposed vibration from the cannon firing, secondary target, little things like that. But only for a total of +1. Not each
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happyguy49
04/06/18 01:38 PM
107.181.176.98
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I agree with OP that this should be fixed. I think Retry's idea is the simplest and most intuitive solution, although you would be rolling up to six times for to-hit rolls for Rotary cannons.
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Retry
04/06/18 02:51 PM
64.189.130.11
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Oh I still roll on the Cluster table for Rotaries, it's only the Ultra that gets that treatment.
I've got a combination of house rules and a few rules modified from Tac Ops to make ACs in general a bit more appealing:
Ultras roll to-hit twice instead of on the cluster hits (but will still jam on a two roll when firing)
To make up for the jamming, Ultras can be unjammed just like Rotary Autocannons (Not a huge fan of such large, standardized, mass-produced equipment having a 1-in-36 chance of failure every time they fire anyways)
Vanilla ACs, Light ACs, and Protomech ACs can be put in rapid-fire mode (with old UAC rules) but with a +1 to-hit modifier. (I found the Tac Ops version to be much too harsh to be helpful, jamming or exploding a solid 1/6th of the time.)
IMO these changes help to make ACs (The Ultras & Normal ones, at least) more competitive with other weapon systems without requiring any significant changes.
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AmaroqStarwind
04/07/18 08:06 AM
99.203.27.127
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How about the Caseless Autocannons introduced in Tactical Handbook? They tend to outright explode when they jam, but they have three times the Ammo Per Ton, and are considerably smaller and lighter themselves due to the simpler feed mechanism.
Which is weird, because a simpler feed mechanism should reduce the chances of jamming...
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
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Retry
04/07/18 10:57 AM
64.189.130.11
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Quote:
How about the Caseless Autocannons introduced in Tactical Handbook? They tend to outright explode when they jam, but they have three times the Ammo Per Ton, and are considerably smaller and lighter themselves due to the simpler feed mechanism.
Which is weird, because a simpler feed mechanism should reduce the chances of jamming...
Idk, I've never used THB's Caseless ACs. If I use caseless it's only ever the newer version that's compatible with basic ACs. So only 2x the ammo per ton and jams but doesn't explode.
A King Crab using Caseless ammo is a particularly annoying foe, though.
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AmaroqStarwind
04/07/18 11:06 AM
99.203.27.127
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I think having the weapon itself be smaller and lighter is a pretty big plus, though, and since we're already talking House Rules (not to mention that THB Caseless Autocannons aren't tournament legal to begin with), the jams could be ruled to not cause an explosion.
Also, I think I recall seeing somewhere that even regular Autocannons using Caseless ammunition couldn't use normal ammunition as a result. If Caseless could be combined with other ammunition types (Flak, Precision, Armor Piercing, Incendiary and Tracer), then this wouldn't be a problem.
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
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Retry
04/07/18 11:24 AM
64.189.130.11
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True, that AC is stuck with using Caseless ammo. But in the case of the King Crab, it has only 2 tons of ammo for its AC/20s anyways, or 5 shots per gun, so may as well go with the ammo endurance and let yourself take a few guilt-free shots on 10+ shots. Caseless shines when ammo storage is limited.
Feel free to use (or modify) my suggestions, I'm pretty pleased with how I've got them worked out right now.
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wolf_lord_30
04/21/18 11:34 AM
74.214.54.153
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Quote:
I don't even roll on the cluster table for Ultras, I just roll to-hit for each shell. It's basically the same amount of rolling but the average damage is actually doubled from their vanilla AC variants, and there's also no more of those really wierd situations where you're rolling target #s of 2 due to an immobile target right in front of you yet still manage to hit with your full AC salvos only 40% of the time.
This is how I was taught to play (we had half rules of 3050 era equipment and photocopies of weapons and tables). I was also taught that hatchets use the punch location table. When I came back to Battletech and actually read the rules for myself, I was quite shocked that these were not the case.
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