Alt History / Thoughts re Clan Invasion of IS

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ghostrider
08/28/20 09:08 PM
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Did you read the books? Again, the question was asked that was already answered in the books, and yet some comprehensive reading wasn't necessary. Might be all those non existing words in between the lines messing up the comprehension.
The books tell you that the clan commanders that did issue the batchall, and were not about to explain the whole thing, as it was the IS that should know what it was about. If they didn't, well that just shows the ignorant barbarians. The fact that the clans were so arrogant for the most part, they expect everyone worth a second though to know their entire history.

And with the better tech, it will be even cheaper to just leave the factories on the surface. The only way civilian companies will have factories underground is when the government builds it, or they are doing things that they don't want the public to know. And since it is not something that most governments can do without having major uprisings, they are NOT going to build factories for civilian entities.

I guess you need to go back to school and learn how the world is really working. Internet companies are NOT making the standard of living go up in poorer nations. They are hiring workers, but they are paying garbage wages. The only ones making money is the government, and the factory owners. It is actually destroying jobs for everything to be done on line, as there isn't any people working in the stores to showcase and sell those items. That removes more people out of the work forces, and makes the companies that much more money. They don't need to stock stores, as they can actually get away with ordering items when the customer puts in their order. 2 to 4 weeks delivery? More like make and ship. If they had the item on hand, then it ships as soon as your payment clears. The brick and mortor businesses are going under as they are paying for the cashiers, stockers, cleaners and such. Having everything shipped from one location makes needing a large labor force unnecessary.
Yes. The internet sales helps some companies get recognition and can make it. Most get their new ideas copied and locked out of the sales by the larger companies. Sometimes, they are bought out. So helping the standard of living for a nation? Not really. Just a few.

Tax a nation to death, so the people there will work for almost nothing, and sell everything they can make for cheap. They are not going to be telling you no, when you bring in a factory that pumps out pollution like it was running water.
Years back, it wasn't like this.

Again, blaming someone that was not really in charge of providing things for others. And then that is also suggesting that a spoiled child could never get away with not working to learn anything, as they don't need to. My word is law attitude as they think a wave of their hand can change how things are done without caring anything about what it actually entails. And this is not even suggesting that a 'friend' might be placing the bad ideas into the spoiled childs head, while the person that was told to watch out for them, was also told they had other things to do.
But it is keeping with the concept of missing the actual target, just to make someone else the villain.
Requiem
08/29/20 06:32 AM
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The books tell you that the clan commanders that did issue the batchall, and were not about to explain the whole thing, as it was the IS that should know what it was about. If they didn't, well that just shows the ignorant barbarians.



Once more demonstrating how badly written the story truly is ….
The Clans are nothing more than the ignorant enforcing by war ignorance upon others … how many libraries and books did they burn in their invasion?
As for the Clans being arrogant this goes far beyond this ….. hubris, leading to nemesis!

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And with the better tech, it will be even cheaper to just leave the factories on the surface.



A CEO has s fiduciary to the company and to their shareholders – continual production with a plant underground – continual share dividends or dissolution of the company and not even an insurance check – as an act of WMDs are usually not covered.
The factory goes underground – the cost of putting it there negligible in 3050 – the protection by having it there priceless …..

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I guess you need to go back to school and learn how the world is really working. Internet companies are NOT making the standard of living go up in poorer nations.



Consider re-reading

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Kerensky



Suggest re-reading once more with regards to the duty of a Regent as well as the Duty of a Lord of a realm and the level of education that SHOULD go into this person to make them ready to rule.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
ghostrider
08/29/20 12:17 PM
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I would think the clan warriors did not intentionally destroy anything about history. They would prefer to fight in the open, away from cities and such. The IS did what they were used to, and would give them some sort of equalizer. They defended in the cities. Not all, but enough.
Remember. Anything about the SL was sacred to them. So anything like books written in the SL era, would be a special find.

The CEO being responsible for the companies welfare is how things are supposed to be. Using today as a model, that isn't true for a chunk of them. They are there to collect money, and are doing what they want, not what is needed. With the Golden Parachute contracts, someone making 10 million dollars a year, but would make 200 million if the company goes under, what do you think they are going to do? Work for the company 20 years, or destroy it as fast as possible. CEO's are not tied to the financial state of the companies they work for, unless they own the company.
With those numbers, and the non disclosure of how the employee worked, they can go to another company and repeat the same thing.
Now as for what you can see, companies that don't bring in as much money as they need to in order to keep functioning, start releasing workers as well as downgrade the quality of their product. The big costs, such as the executive boards pay, is not touched. They get their bonuses, even if the company is going under financially. This creates the downward spiral that finally ends in bankruptcy.
This is not the case for all, but enough are, which supports the idea that CEOs don't care about the company making money, so much as THEY make the big bucks.

Reread what? The propaganda put out to make it look like the standard of living is going up in the poorer countries? The cost of living everywhere is going up. Most wages are not keeping up with it, and unemployment makes that even more prevalent. Only a few enjoy the rewards of the global economy. And they make enough, that when averaged with the rest of their country, makes it look like they are making more overall. You love math. Run the numbers.

Duty and actually being able to do so are not one and the same. The regent has people in the system that are supposed to do the job of making sure things are done, while they deal with other things. Ministries, departments, committees, job postings and such are all part of that chain of command. For Kerensky to just go to Terra and sit on Richard is not going to happen. The SL was pushing to bring the periphery to heel. That was more important to someone in the military, then it was to make sure the people that have been in the position to do other jobs did them right. This also does not cover the child threatening the career employs with their job, as they KNOW they are the most powerful person in the universe.
Amaris having Richard's ear, could very well have given him this idea, and made it stick. Even without that, others may have been trying to manipulate Richard for their own ends. So the reports would go out that everything is normal with his education.
Ignorant of a person being attended to by those that were qualified for the position before the father died is very possible, and kind of expected. A newly crowned king is not going to go into the kingdom to find out why food production, or mining is down. They send others, as they have more important things to do. They decide what to do on the reports they get.
But history doesn't matter, when it doesn't support, or worse, counters the complaints of the game. This is why the whole idea of showing an alt is fictitious. Full attacks on everything the game does or stand for, isn't anything but trying to rip on the developers.
A different approach is needed if you want to change this fact.
Requiem
08/29/20 07:32 PM
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I would think the clan warriors did not intentionally destroy anything about history.



Research – yes they did destroy history in the minds of the freeborn and those Trueborn to a history that they wanted - and the access to the real historical documents became restricted.
So Question: How many historical topics within the Clans became restricted information ….?

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Clans

The Arts
“Few books have been written since the Clans formed and those that were are heavily censored to ensure they uphold Clan ideals; while pre-Exodus books do exist, their access is tightly controlled and limited to a privileged few.”
and how many topics have become forged or falsified – Clan Worlverine.

Fact is the Clans cannot accept Historical truth – Aleksandr Kerensky was incompetent, Nicholas utilizing demagogy established an Amaris society so that he could get back at dad ….and the Clans are now closer to being an Amaris’ force than that of the SLDF ……
And as for the invasion how many universities did they burn to the ground just like the one on Somerset?

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Anything about the SL was sacred to them. So anything like books written in the SL era, would be a special find.



And as noted above these sacred finds were then put on the restricted list and limited to the privileged few!

So point is the Clans are nothing more than book burning thugs who have no idea as to true historical facts.

So why didn’t the Dragoons and Natasha realize the vast discrepancy between what they were taught back on the Clan home worlds and the everyday books of the IS?

And we now how another huge black hole as to the true historical facts ….. all the Dragoons should have realized that what they were taught was WRONG at one time or another …. They were lied to as to their historical truth …. So what happens when you realize your history is not your history and you have been lied to throughout your entire life?

This is what is happening with the Dragoons – and this is what should have happed with all the freeborn within the Clans – psyops would have ensured they would have been supplied the truth – the sharks merchants would have taken the truth home with them and disseminated the truth …..

So again we have very bad writing due to a very poor understanding as to the reality of what was created and the consequences of those actions …..

So again a re-write is required for the modern person wanting to play the game….. the table top brand is losing against its competitors and its target market clients are shrinking ….

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The CEO being responsible for the companies welfare is how things are supposed to be.



It is actually how it is … if they do not look after the share-holders they can be voted out! So how many large corps are owned by just one person?

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Reread what?



How about starting with scholarly articles on the facts!

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Duty and actually being able to do so are not one and the same.



Can I laugh now?
As regent it is his job to rule in his absence and to get Richard ready for the job – as neither happened it just goes to show how incompetent Kerensky really was ….

All I can say is that I am glad I had Kerensky court-martialed and kicked out in my time line …..gross incompetence ….
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
ghostrider
08/29/20 09:12 PM
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The clans did not burn books. The bs called the cartoon did not follow canon story lines. It was accepted that parts, and only SMALL parts of it was acceptable to be considered canon. The university was some bs put into the cartoon to try and make it longer then what it would have been without the lies in it.

The suppression of history in the clan home worlds is not the same as burning the books. It does have dark tones to it, but the information is still available. But this doesn't play well with your complaint so has to be ignored.

The story has little to do with the actual playing of the game. Something that really seems to allude you. The game is based on stompy mechs fighting stompy mechs. The story only gives you some context to what is going on. I agree it has issues that comes from them not fact checking their own work, but then others think that stories written by others, like the cartoon, is exactly what the story line is. The novels have gone against facts as well.

You really don't understand how companies work, I see. The CEO has their bonus pay if they are removed from their position. They get their golden parachute no matter how they leave. So embezzling all they can seems to be becoming standard in a lot of areas. Workers pensions being one of the first things to be raided, then removing the numbers of workers. If it was about the bottom line, the executive board should be the first one to have pay cuts. That does not happen. They tend to get bonuses while others are laid off.

I have yet to see scholarly articles that are facts. So far, all the ones about foreign nations having their standard of living raised, as been because the rich's increase in fortune's are averaged with the rest, raising the money. It is NOT because the normal workers are getting paid more. The cost of living is rising faster then their paychecks, as most companies will hire someone else once someone complains.

Your concepts of what happened are based on information that isn't there. First off, the idea that someone fighting a war light years from where someone becomes the new ruler, can just drop everything to head back. Second, the whole ordeal would follow standard protocols, where those working with the first lord would continue to do the same job they did when the father was alive. This does not all change when the parent dies. So the only thing that really changes is the title bestowed on the leader fighting in the periphery. If Kerensky really did have the power to do what you claim, he would have had the houses start mobilizing to help take down the periphery. The ENTIRE RWR would be banned from the TH. A full warrant for the arrest of the Amaris line would have happened before Amaris even got to Terra. Just like happens in real wars. So Kerensky did NOT have the powers you suggest he does. The regency was a farce to make it look like the house lords were not taking over. It finally came to an end when they disband the SL. Simple logic following facts.
The implication that is here is that Kerensky was a complete bumbling fool that could not even put his pants on right. He was not trained to run certain things, and let the experts do their job. He did NOT order them to do anything that was against protocols. So if there is an issue, it was with the protocols to begin with, then the people that were carrying it out. The intel and judicial departments would come next. But doing what you are, and just jumping to the highest person in the chain, then the first lord position was flawed beyond repair to begin with. But this means you can't blame the one person you want to, as it doesn't apply.
Requiem
08/30/20 07:39 AM
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The clans did not burn books.



And Universities do not have Libraries? ……
CANON FACT ….. Somerset’s Academy WAS destroyed by the Jade Falcons. The point that it was part of the 1st Somerset Strikes is story IS IMMATERIAL – this was adopted as Canon making it a factual.
How many other peoples have the Clans killed off for one reason or another throughout their history?
How far have they gone to repress freeborn rights whereas if they were true SLDF they would be championing the human rights?
The Clans represent the worst in human nature and should be treated as such! There is NOTHING noble in them, there is NOTHING to admire ….. time to face facts about the Clans – who they are – and what they represent!

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The suppression of history in the clan home worlds is not the same as burning the books.



Really? …. The suppression of thought and knowledge is not dependent in the media it relates to! …. Suppression of thought and knowledge in any form is still a suppression of thought and knowledge ….

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but the information is still available.



To the select few military elite ….. which really does not help the freeborn anything …….

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The story only gives you some context to what is going on.



Except for the fact the story is what drives sales, market penetration, and target market analysis …..

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You really don't understand how companies work, I see. The CEO has their bonus pay if they are removed from their position. They get their golden parachute no matter how they leave.



Sorry but no, this is not the case

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Workers pensions being one of the first things to be raided



Only in those countries that do not have security in place for penions .....

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If it was about the bottom line, the executive board should be the first one to have pay cuts.



Google it

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I have yet to see scholarly articles that are facts.



After 1 min google ….
ECIPE – The Economic Benefits of Globalization for business and Consumers, 2018, Fredrik Erixon – RE WTO and Globalization

As such if Inner Sphere had transferred their business activities into the Periphery it would have assisted not only the business but also the people of the Periphery,

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the idea that someone fighting a war light years from where someone becomes the new ruler, can just drop everything to head back.



Then why have Jump-ships?

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the whole ordeal would follow standard protocols, where those working with the first lord would continue to do the same job they did when the father was alive.



Please explain ….?

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If Kerensky really did have the power to do what you claim, he would have had the houses start mobilizing to help take down the periphery.



First - what powers did Kerensky Have? Regent – as such he has the same powers as that of the First Lord …. Bur as he never made it that far in the Alt version the point is mute as once his political support is removed his power is removes and those that hate him (ie all the Chiefs of staff and all the Army Commanders) get rid of him ….
And as such sanity returns to the IS ….
Second – Reunification War (2577-2597) included who?

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The ENTIRE RWR would be banned from the TH. A full warrant for the arrest of the Amaris line would have happened before Amaris even got to Terra.



First, Stefan Amaris was written out of history ….. as his presence is no longer required …. Second, mine is way more realistic ….

Faction;
Attacker – Draconis Combine, Rim Worlds Republic, Outworlds Alliance, Tortuga Alliance, Taurian Concordat and Magistracy of Canopus – RWR and DC have been working together for a very long time manufacturing shadow army for both realms, thus by the time of the war their military is just above that of the defenders. (in all respects) + all of their mechs etc. have access to clocking systems ….
Defender – Star League, Lyran Commonwealth and Federated Suns;
Declaring them-selves neutral – Capellan Confederation and Free Worlds League.

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He was not trained to run certain things



Highest rank in the field is as a Captain.
Then assigned to the CIC staff – making it to the position of her Aide – which if I remember correctly is a Lieutenant Colonel
Never commanded a Battalion, Regiment, Corp or Army Group, never involved in any joint exercises with Army / Navy …. Never was part of the Chiefs of staff …. etc etc,
Thus in all reality he is grossly inept for the position of CIC.
And why was he given the position – he like his successor believed in the nightmares of the mad first lord at the time …. who was also the person who gave him the job …. At the recommendation of the then CIC …. Can anyone say political appointee and nepotism!
And all of this is Canon Fact!
So no he was definitely the correct person for the job! (SARCASM)
This goes way beyond protocol by promoting him to the position of CIC he has just made some serious enemies and then by not doing anything during the Federated Suns and Capellan Confederation war proves that he is completely inept for the job…..
And thus at the first chance he loses political support he will be removed ….

And hopefully a new system is put in place and sanity is returned to the IS …..
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.


Edited by Requiem (08/30/20 07:47 AM)
ghostrider
08/30/20 12:11 PM
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Funny. There is a lot of things that were written about Battletech over the years, and some of it was canonized. Most of it was said to be just someone's vision of it. The original video game of Battletech for instance. I have not heard anything in canon that says that story line happened. Then the entire history of the novels as well as the cartoon having mechs explode when the engine is destroyed. Radiation from cracked engine shielding. There is a whole list of other things.

The clans are not the worse of humanity in history. They did not have blood sports where they released freeborn on their home worlds, then hunt them down for sport. They did not go out of their way to see how long it takes to starve people. There are more things, but not going to get into it more.
And the idea of destroying information by burning books, and that includes deleting the data from electronic storage, is not the same as limiting it from the masses. Not saying limiting it is a good thing, but it is not the same thing.
Also, the data is available to the scientists which would distribute it to those they felt were worthy of it. Oh wait. You mean the non warriors were doing the same thing?

So you are saying the success of say warhammer is because of the stories and not the actual game? The entire D&D history is not based on the written stories, but from GMs making their own creations. The stories do help keep the public aware of it, as some have read the books but never played the game. But those came after the game was moving along. Battletech needs a full rewrite of the rules in order to keep consistency in the time line.
And I have never really heard of a storyline behind monopoly or checkers.

Your economics major has lied to you if you think the CEOs don't have their contracts set up so they make money no matter what the company does. Who do you think authorizes the executive board to raid pension funds, tell the sales people to lie their butts off, like Enron did? Might need to look beyond the town you are in and view the entire world. Again, this is not all of them, but it is growing among them. This will not change as long as the executive board gets away with the golden parachute concepts.

The security being in place does not prevent such things from happening anymore. Most of those laws have been destroyed by lawsuits and people getting away with it. And the consequences? They get slapped on the wrist or serve a few months in a clubhouse jail. They hid the money away, and no one can get their money back. Off shore HQ's are great for that. And having the HQ in other countries allows them to avoid prosecution as their laws are different. Part of the complicated loop holes written in for the rich to get away with it.

You think that spending millions in the periphery in order to use cheap labor while having no real ability to secure those locations would be smart? The cost of shipping would cause more then a few problems, though in the SL era, at least the ships were not much of an issue. And you think that more then a few people would be better off with such a move? Again. Figure the math with the masses having little to nothing, while a small few have the funds that exceeds the masses though they are like 2% of the population. Sound fimiliar?

Why have jumpships? Really? It isn't about the transportation itself, but the time and the need to remain where you are at that is the problem. But to be honest, if there were no jumpships, then the whole issue would be void. Humanity would still be stuck on Terra.

Please explain that a child will continue to be tutored to educate him on things they need to know if their parents die? That the regent should not have to replace the entire process, as it was already vetted before they were thrust into that spot. That your history shows this to be true beyond your wants or desires?

First - what powers did Kerensky Have? Regent – as such he has the same powers as that of the First Lord …. Bur as he never made it that far in the Alt version the point is mute as once his political support is removed his power is removes and those that hate him (ie all the Chiefs of staff and all the Army Commanders) get rid of him …
Yet another example of trying to say canon is wrong because your alt says so. You argue he was wrong, yet change the subject when proven the opinion is based on false facts. And yet you can't see this.
Kerensky had the powers of the First Lord, yet did nothing to get the houses involved in taking out the periphery? This would have dealt a blow to their build up of forces, which would have meant the edict to limit them would not have been needed.

Realistic? Only in your mind does this work. Realistic would have been the first lord playing off all of the houses against each other, in order for them to have to rely on the TH portion to keep them safe. Just like the feudal societies the SL is based on. It is proven the SL could NOT secure the entire IS thru force, so they had to rely on vassals to keep the revolts down. Funny how you quote from history, but then forget it when it doesn't suit or support your desires.

That is very funny. The person that came from a military back ground is not qualified to be the CIC, yet they answer to someone that normally has NO back ground. And the fact that they have a huge staff to deal with things they weren't trained for. It is possible that he was not a tactical or strategic thinker. But to say he wasn't qualified leaves out the entire First Lord position entirely.

But I guess comprehension has failed entirely, as for the story to move on to the current age, the SL had to fall. The fact that the back ground story has flaws in it doesn't matter much. The SL had to fall, and they had to make it sound like the hero rode in to save the day, only to have a pyrric victory, and leaves as the evil dukes start to feed on the carcass of the great nation. Sounds like the standard story line to me.
Wick
08/30/20 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Faction;
Attacker – Draconis Combine, Rim Worlds Republic, Outworlds Alliance, Tortuga Alliance, Taurian Concordat and Magistracy of Canopus – RWR and DC have been working together for a very long time manufacturing shadow army for both realms, thus by the time of the war their military is just above that of the defenders. (in all respects) + all of their mechs etc. have access to clocking systems ….
Defender – Star League, Lyran Commonwealth and Federated Suns;




The canon numbers provided for military sizes around the 2765 and 2785 epochs indicate this is not true.

Assuming 2780 (and only counting mech forces and no mercs):

DCMS stands about 129 regiments, RWR/Amaris Empire is about 90 regiments remaining of the shadow army, with Outworlds, Concordat, and Magistracy all about 12-15 regiments, and the Tortugans maybe offering 1 or 2. That totals about 265 regiments by my reckoning.

SLDF alone is approximately 480 regiments of mechs, based on what was left in 2785 at time of Exodus. The Lyrans would add about 96 regiments and the FedSuns about 125. For a total of right around 700.

The attackers aren't just above the defenders, but outnumbered close to 3:1. I suppose you could subtract SLDF units from the Combine or Periphery as defectors, but not enough of them to flip the scale. Maybe closer to 2:1. Its a winnable fight given morale and exhaustion problems within the remaining remnant of the SLDF, but not a rollover. It would certainly help if the approximately 106 regiments of the FWLM and 102 of the CCAF could be counted among the attackers. If many SLDF divisions from these realms also defected it might get close to 550 mech regiments on each side.


Even in 2765 (just before New Vandenburg riots) its a mismatch because of the SLDF's gigantic size that still dwarfs the shadow army.

DCMS about 115 regiments, RWR about 30 regiments (hiding their numbers in the shadow armies of the other periphery realms), Outworlds at 100 regiments, Concordat at 115, Magistracy at 108, and again the Tortugans making up only a few. Total of about 470 regiments. If the RWR mobilized all their shadow army and emptied Hegemony Brian Caches, they could call upon an additional 350-400 regiments to bring the total in the 800-850 range

SLDF at around 1770 regiments of mechs, or about twice the attackers maximum combined strength. LCAF at 90, and AFFS at 111 regiments but these pale in comparison.

The SLDF was truly monstrous before the New Vandenburg riots, the Rim Worlds campaign, then the Terra campaign sapped most of its strength. Still, at the end its military was about as large as the rest of the Inner Sphere combined. Amaris knew that he basically had to throw the militaries of the other Periphery realms under the bus to have a reasonable chance of defending against the SLDF. They were offered hundreds of regiments (and nuclear weapons) to weaken the SLDF, and that's exactly what happened. Their kill-death ratio was an admirable 2:1 and their militaries were reduced by about 90% in 2765 and 2766, but it drained about a third of the SLDF: enough for Amaris to gain the upper hand for a time.
Requiem
08/30/20 03:53 PM
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The story is what keeps the game going ….. without a good story the game would have been long dead by now ….

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Radiation from cracked engine shielding



Fuel is water is converted into Hydrogen Plasma which is converted into helium to create energy and the radiation is?
Aneutronic fusion?

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They did not have blood sports where they released freeborn on their home worlds, then hunt them down for sport.



Book – The Clans Warriors of Kerensky No. 1709 Pg. 12 – Please explain ….
- the use of “The Coursing” and “Thamzing”

Coursing – the sport of hunting game animals (in this case humans) with greyhounds (in this case larger hunting animals) using sight rather than scent ….
Ie. that is letting the people run and then setting the animals on them to chase them down and rip them to pieces …..

Thamzing – public humiliation – where the accuses was forces to admit to various crimes before a crowd of people who would verbally and physically abuse the victim until they confessed ….

Nicholas’ use of torture and degradation during the post liberation months ……

Book 1st Somerset Strikers Pg. 43 note this was written August 13, 3050 “…. What I have seen of the Clans … proves that their entire society is inimical to all the values and traditions that we hold dear. They have no concept of freedom, individuality, or self-determination. They classify people …..with the most stratified and class-bound societies. The Clans divide people into five castes: warrior, scientist, merchant, technician, and labourer. Each caste is ranked according to its value to society, as the Clans understand value, placing the warrior caste at the top of the ladder and descending in order to the labourer caste. Though this system appears to have the virtue of assigning everyone a definite niche in life, in practice it devalues everyone outside the warrior caste. ….. the value of each caste is measured solely by the worth of its function to the warriors. The labourers, who attend to the day-to-day running of society, are regarded as little better than livestock …. The Jade Falcons believe that anyone born or placed into a given caste is by nature suited only to that caste and cannot possibly function anywhere else. ….. Such rigid thinking, with no concessions to individual wants and needs make a mockery of the ideal of freedom held up by the ancient Star League ….”

In 2844, motivated by jealousy, the Mongoose warriors struck at Clan Star Adder and ruthlessly massacred the Adder colonists on Marshall.

Londerholm Revolt - This woeful incident was a desperate reaction to many years of Clan Smoke Jaguar's brutal and uncaring oppression of their own lower castes. Thousands of Smoke Jaguar citizens of the laborer and merchant castes were killed by their warriors during this major rebellion.

Clan Ghost Bear – assembled all the children who’s dna included Clan Wolverine dna – they told them the facts and every child then took out their sidearm and killed themselves all because they had the wrong dna …..

Also please do explain the concept of freeborn ….. “ work-credit for food, accommodation, and other amenities” and “The use of so-called "dirty tricks" in order to get ahead is thus more prevalent among the civilians”

Law and order – “Rather than solve crimes, Clan police's primary duty is discouraging them through brutal, authoritative measures; physical beatings ….” Punishment …. “through physical punishment such as flogging.”

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……is not the same as limiting it from the masses.



Sorry but it is the same. The permanent removal of knowledge from people. Semantics don’t work here.

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So you are saying the success of say warhammer is because of the stories and not the actual game?



Then why have multiple massive novels put out each week – why put out audio books – why create a whole subset for children – and why create a new subset devoted to crime novels …
Also why is the Horus Heresy set so vast? Also why are many of the new series also so vast?

Quote:
D&D



How many hundreds of novels exist for Dragonlance – forgotten Realms etc. and how many source books have been created due to the novels themselves?

The novels are the bedrock upon which the game is built.
Quote:
Your economics major has lied to you if you think the CEOs don't have their contracts set up so they make money no matter what the company does.



Try again each country has their own way of doing things ….In more progressive countries legislation is enacted by parliament prevents it ….. remuneration is determined by resolution of the shareholders …. And listed companies must present a remuneration report to shareholders at every AGM …..and should explain the relationship between company performance and remuneration ….

Sooner or later international standards will demand it …..

Quote:
You think that spending millions in the periphery in order to use cheap labor while having no real ability to secure those locations would be smart?



International Business Theory would say … Yay to the proposition during the Star League era.
However by 3025 they no longer have a police force so it will be a little difficult … unless you have your own private army to act as a security force …..

Quote:
It isn't about the transportation itself, but the time and the need to remain where you are at that is the problem.



Two years – Exodus
Six months for a clan resupply fleet to arrive in the Inner Sphere from Clan Space.

Quote:
Please explain that a child will continue to be tutored to educate him on things they need to know if their parents die?



Because it is the law in every civilized country ….. and Because it is the way things have been done since year dot for next ruling monarch’s children …..

Consider every Regent throughout history …… the only time they were not educated is when they ended in the tower and were subsequently murdered …..

Quote:
Yet another example of trying to say canon is wrong because your alt says so.



And Canon is oh so right on every topic ……
This forum is dedicated to the Alt version and my explanation as to why ….. to explain how many of the black holes can be fixed ….

Quote:
Realistic would have been the first lord playing off all of the houses against each other, in order for them to have to rely on the TH portion to keep them safe.



Problem is that the First Lord would have to be smarter than the House Lords – and that has yet to occur for a very long time ….

Quote:
Realistic would have been the first lord playing off all of the houses against each other, in order for them to have to rely on the TH portion to keep them safe.



Funny thing feudal society is not the only system that can work in this system – democracy can also work in this system just as well ….

Quote:
The person that came from a military back ground is not qualified to be the CIC, yet they answer to someone that normally has NO back ground.



And yet every feudal society ruler includes a military education …. How else do so many rulers die on the battlefield …..

Quote:
The person that came from a military back ground is not qualified to be the CIC.



How can you have a person in charge of the joint chief of staff – when he never served a day as a junior member – he never served as a CO of an Army / A Corp / a Regiment etc.- he does not have the background or the understanding necessary to do the job …..

Quote:
The SL had to fall, and they had to make it sound like the hero rode in to save the day.



And why hot have Richard Cameron as the hero? Kicked out of his realm then fighting to win it back ….. a classic North / South War ….
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
ghostrider
08/30/20 07:44 PM
66.74.60.165

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Read the paragraph the radiation leak from a reactor comes with. It is something the writers put in that is completely opposite of the rules. That whole list is some examples of them doing so.

The cartoon has little validity here. Most of it was tossed out and never even thought of being put in canon. Most of the magazine Battle Technology is not canon, and it is far closer to what was going on then the cartoon.

All of the examples of the clans use of violence is nothing that hasn't happened in the past. The only difference it they are all put into one entity, not spread out among a couple hundred.
Is it good or right? Not really.
Is it something to get the game moving along? Yes.
And yet, your alt has the same things going on, as you follow canon for the most part. Logic holes here that are not even looked at.

How is restricting information the same as destroying it? The information is there for review, once the people refusing the release are gone, or someone gets into it when they aren't supposed to. Not sure which looking glass you are using for this, as it is not the same thing. The information is not lost forever with restriction.

Not even close with D&D. The bedrock is the fact that the guidelines are there to help people play the game. It has some rules that can't be changed if you head over to another gamers world. The story line is not based on one history or future, as battle tech is. Your game can rule Waterdeep, or wipe it out. It does not stop the game from being played, and the novels do not change that.

You still don't understand just how little the world laws are being followed anymore. Money has been destroying the laws for them, while increasingly enforced for those that don't have it. Countries are going broke because the rich have been able to get around paying much of what they owe. That also includes things like their companies payroll issues. The companies in the news lately have been getting out of being punished, as they had made 'friends' with politicians, which divert and ultimately screw up investigations so there can be no punishment for those companies.

In the time of the SL, the periphery was a safe place for anyone associated with the SL? What are you reading from? The unification wars shows the lie to it being safe for IS investors. It takes just one local leader to seize control over the assets of a single company to show this. And the fact that the investors weren't in charge is part of the driving force to bring the periphery to heel.

Two years – Exodus
Six months for a clan resupply fleet to arrive in the Inner Sphere from Clan Space.
What the hell does this have to do with why someone wouldn't make it back to Terra when running the war against the periphery, and not try to change the education system for the first lord's child?

So you complain that Kerensky didn't leave the front to change how the first lord was tutored? But now you say that history has shown it was not necessary for him to run out on operations to see that the first lord was getting the proper training, despite the fact that Kerensky had no clue on what was really needed. He was a military person.

The alt threads are dedicated to saying canon is wrong because you don't like they way it has gone. If it was truly about showing an alternative, the terms only viable solution, and not possible for things to happen that way, would never show up in the discussion of the ideas. They all go along the lines of canon is wrong because this is what should have happened. And you refuse to learn that your numbers are not what they were using. The vision has the end information available to those before the whole chain of events takes place and modifies it so the events don't happen.

Canon is correct for those that created the game. It has a few more issues then it should, but for the purpose of the history of the game, it is absolutely correct. If you owned the game like you claim, then it would have been changed, but what do you know. It hasn't.

The SL was not a democracy, it was a feudal society, bordering on a monarchy/empire. The ruling house was never voted in, or continued to be voted in.

Rulers die on the battlefield because they believe they can't lose. And their forces do. What would have happened in history had the rulers did exactly what you said the coordinators as well as Victor should have done? Sat at home while their forces were in the field. Wow. They would not have died then, and may well have been able to survive the war. How differently the world would be today if that had happened.
As a side note, today, there have been far more non military trained people running countries then in the past. They are the ones calling for military action. So where is this concept that the top brass has to have gone thru all the ranks? Their boss normally hasn't seen a real battlefield until after it cools.

Because if Richard had even tried to do so, the SL would not have fallen, and the succession wars would not have destroyed so much in their trying to win the war quickly. The exodus would not have happened, as Amaris would not have been on Terra. The entire story would not be what is written.
Canon is written the way the developers wanted it so they can present the 'current' day as it is.
Requiem
08/31/20 03:26 AM
1.158.133.26

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Quote:
The cartoon has little validity here.



Except for …..
The entire reconnaissance mission
Adam Steiner – Archon of the LC
Franklin Sakamoto – Father Theodore Kurita – Great Granddaughter is Yori Sakamoto – Coordinator of the DC
Camelot Command ….. etc etc

Thus turning the little validity into very important CANON information …..

Quote:
All of the examples of the clans use of violence is nothing that hasn't happened in the past.



Dismissing who the Clans were and who they are now?
How does that work with revisionist history?

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The information is not lost forever with restriction.



How is that working out with freedom of information requests upon some of the most sensitive aspects of history?

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The bedrock is the fact that the guidelines are there to help people play the game.



https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamrowe1/2...r/#1fc42f1930ab

"DnD" sales grew more than 30%.
53% sales increase in e-books and print from 2017 to 2018
Wizards of the Coast sold over $31 million in print units across the 18-month period between May 2017 and October 2018 while selling $1.6 million in ebook units.

Try again ….

Quote:
You still don't understand just how little the world laws are being followed anymore.



Opinion does not equate to fact …..

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The unification wars shows the lie to it being safe for IS investors.



Rim Worlds Republic ….
The Republic maintained a sizable army with a gigantic reserve, a well educated/trained population, and a large defense industry.
How did they manufacture a military that brought the SL to its knees unless they had a massive economy to back them up?

Thus showing that the Rim Worlds was a very safe financial harbor ……

Quote:
Kerensky



Try reading and comprehending the Canon information ….

Quote:
The alt threads are dedicated to saying canon is wrong because you don't like they way it has gone.



Why must I constantly be told the status quo can never change?
Why play a game that is so stuck in the mud it cannot accept change due to the massive amount of errors that are discovered?

Quote:
The SL was not a democracy, it was a feudal society,



Then why do so many worlds have a Democratic Government? Governor, President etc

Quote:
there have been far more non military trained people running countries then in the past.



Try again – DC and FS both require warriors as their ruler ….

Quote:
The entire story would not be what is written.


Correct, this is what is so great about my Alt it completely deviates from the norm.
And I get to kill off many of stupidities of the canon history in one hit ….
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
ghostrider
08/31/20 12:10 PM
66.74.60.165

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Not dismissing the clans SOP. But it isn't unique in what the are doing. It is unique that they were completely out of touch with anything other then their society. Most of what they do is almost standard dictator material. It is interesting that you complain about Battletech having the clans they way they are, but don't seem to have issues with any other game and they way they do things. Yes, this is a board about Battletech, but I haven't seen anything that suggests you think D&D needs to have mindflayers (illithids) removed, as they eat peoples brains.

It means that the information can be accessed, though it may be illegal to do so. It isn't like destroying the information, then rewriting it so no one knows history didn't go the way those in power wants it to. The main difference with the clans is the dictatorship did not fall apart after the main leader that put it together died.

The entire history of D&D comes from solid rules and the fact the story is NOT written in stone, where you have to have certain things happen if you even attempt to play in another groups game. D&D is made so you can create your own little universe. Battletech you can't really make up your own weapons, have to stick with specific NPCs and all sorts of other things. The adventure packs are the only things that come close to Battletech in D&D. But most allow you to play your own creations in them, verse Battletech saying you have this or that unit.
This allows for a wider variety of things that can happen. For the most part, things that happen on Krynn, don't affect things on Greyhawk. So you aren't limited to a narrow range of things.

Opinion? More and more big companies are doing illegal actions and less are being punished for them. Legal loopholes are not accidents in the newer laws. They are written in there so the rich can get away with things, but the rest of the masses can't. Makes it that much harder for someone starting out to compete with the rich.
Also the fines put on the big companies is a laugh. 20 million dollar fine for gouging at the pumps for big oil. That is a joke. They made that in the first 1/2 hour at the pumps, if that long.

The RWR was, as you like to call the clans, favored to do so. It is how the story was developed to destroy the SL. It also explains why the LC is much larger then other realms as well as pushed out into the periphery so much. So start with your complaint there. They got away with something the rest of the IS couldn't.

So far, the way I see the story has been the way almost everyone I have talked to sees it. Only someone trying to nitpick it to death in order to try and force the developers to hire them to rewrite it to make it to their vision seems to be in disagreement. Again. Make your own game and history. You seem to think it is so easy. For some of the game, I do think the writers got writer's block and just threw things agains the wall to come up with things.

You are being told that presenting an alternative, and saying that canon can not exist because the alt does not agree with it, is not going to be happening. Saying canon is wrong, as it was the developers game, is the basis for the disagreement. Facts are the second thing.

How many times did the SL have an election for anything? I mean the entire thing. Not just a world or two? It was orders handed down from a single person, that went out to those in power because he could not be there, and they could manipulate those orders to fit their desires. Where the corruption is across all forms of government, the fact that one person has his cronies controlling large amounts of land in their name, and enforcing the lords will shows it is not a democracy.

The FS evolved into requiring that, but the DC was not required as suggested. The needing a warrior for the FS came from the first wars horrifying events. But yet both have had non warriors since then, run the government. And the response I gave was for todays nations as well as those in the past.
And you missed the very important world Today from that statement. That does not mean in the game, or future, but TODAY. It changes the whole meaning of the statement, which seems to be consistent anymore.

Reality check. Completely deviates from the norm is not what the alt does. It takes the base story line and changes it some, but does not fix all the issues there are. Using the same names and event while changing a few things isn't going to work well. The entire story line from the SL would not have anything the same in it. Certain people would never be born, and other events wouldn't have taken place. New events and people would come up, and yet nothing in the alt does this. It has the same people doing the same stupid things. So completely? Not even close.
Requiem
09/01/20 05:01 AM
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Quote:
Most of what they do is almost standard dictator material.



First Generation – Nicholas establishes the Clans and their Culture – and only one Clan recognizes the evil he has created and the remainder just go along with the program.
It is interesting that more within the Clans, who were all once SLDF, did not rebel at that time and join the wolverines as it is quite obvious that Nicholas had betrayed everything the SLDF stands for and had joined with Amaris (hypothetically) !

Quote:
It means that the information can be accessed.



By how many people – just the Khans and sa-khans?
Any limits on the availability of information that was one free to all is a betrayal of knowledge - it is destroying information from the majority of people’s minds – how can you ask for information if you do not know it even exists to begin with?
How many secrets are held by Governments if you do not know the topic / date to which they relate?
However there is one point the game forgot to consider with regards to knowledge – some of the Clans relate their Culture to specific cultural groups on terra – and many of them had access to “oral” history passed down through the ages – how many freeborn know the true history of the SLDF as passed down by oral history and know the perversion for which the Clans truly represent – the dark caste as the minimum?
This is the problem – they have destroyed information – they have destroyed history ……

Quote:
The entire history of D&D comes from solid rules and the fact the story is NOT written in stone ….



And yet the expansion pacts are written in stone, and relate to a point in time, eg Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms – the same as Battletech ….. The point is that no one gets bent out of shape if the game-master changes the story to fit their game as they do in Battletech.

Quote:
They got away with something the rest of the IS couldn't.



And in doing so proves that the entire IS’s ability to manufacture a massive amount of military products is greatly distorted.
It also proves that the majority of the RWR’s hidden military industrial facilities has yet to be discovered, as if it had been discovered by the LC they would have the largest military industrial facilities of any single house and should have been able to decimate the majority of all other houses through mass production …..

Quote:
So far, the way I see the story has been the way almost everyone I have talked to sees it. Only someone trying to nitpick it to death in order to try and force the developers to hire them to rewrite it to make it to their vision seems to be in disagreement.



Current Problems: Reintroduction of the tabletop brand (Advertising), Cash Flow and rebuilding the games rules / product so that more miniatures can be on the board and that air / land / sea / space forces can work more seamlessly (and the promise as to the descriptions of weapons and sensors are finally adhered to ….. etc
How to fix: There is currently only one viable solution for Battletech to survive (unless a white knight is found)
How: Consider Warhammer’s Horus Heresy Books – Battletech must produce (in a shot period of time) a series of books to the same size and quality as these (if not bigger and better) to derive brand recognition and cash flow – the funds can then be diverted to game, wages, advertising to create market penetration back into the game store ….
Thus this is dependent upon a very good story that will not only excite existing clients but expand the target market to others who appreciate science fiction …. Derive brand awareness to derive sales to crease a cash flow to produce more and more.
If this is not done soon the novels and the table top game will cease to be a viable business ….

As for making my own game – that is exactly what I am doing ……

Quote:
Saying canon is wrong, as it was the developers game, is the basis for the disagreement.



What happens when you read any book and it does not make any sense whatsoever – if it leaves out alternatives that could explain what is supposed to be occurring – if it is so one sided that it is blatantly a farcical - what do you do, just accept it at face value? or do you speak up and say “hay, I have issue with this as it just doesn’t make any sense whatsoever”?

If it does not make sense it is the duty of the gamer to speak up and say this does not make sense. It is the duty of the game developer to take issue of the gamer and either provide a logical response or to fix it.

Quote:
How many times did the SL have an election for anything? I mean the entire thing.



https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Terran_Hegemon

“After being elected as the first Director-General of the Terran Hegemony”

“As no agreement within the High Council could be reached, the matter was settled in a general election. During the tightly controlled campaign Cameron and Nellas frequently held debates, in which Nellas came across as a self-assured but smug career politician while Michael Cameron's quiet competence won him voters. In the end, Michael Cameron won the election and was sworn in as Director-General on January 17, 2340.”

“Margaret, … , was swiftly elected and sworn in as Director-General after a short campaign without an opposing candidate.”

“Suffering from cancer, Margaret Cameron retired in 2382 and was succeeded by her son Raymond Cameron.”

At this point we must ask were was the election?

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Star_League

Politics – High Council

“During a crisis an emergency meeting could be called, and for a matter of great importance a Council Directive, or Council Order, would be drafted AND PUT TO A VOTE, WITH A MAJORITY REQUIRED FOR PASSAGE. “

“Each Council Lord was also allowed to bring advisers, known unofficially as High Council Members, to Council meetings, to assist or even tell the Lords HOW THEY SHOULD VOTE.”

And on individual worlds how many have parliaments?

Lyran – Estates General etc …….

Free Wolds League - “the Free Worlds League was ostensibly a federal republic, with each province accorded a measure of self-rule while the representative Parliament served as the supreme federal authority.”

Do I really need to go on?

Quote:
But yet both have had non warriors since then



FS - constitutionally impossible as them must serve a minimum amount of time in the military to become First Princess / Prince.
DC – culturally impossible considering their adherence to the Samurai belief …..

Quote:
Using the same names and event while changing a few things isn't going to work well.



Problem is I have not posted the 80 pages so far regarding my alt history starting with the Star League and deviating completely from the fall of the Star League with completely new people throughout the entire IS - Richard Cameron and his generation are the last within my alt universe that have a place from within Canon – from there on it all changes ….. especially when Richard Cameron Marries the Pirate Princess from Tortuga …..

So not even close …. No exodus, no clans, no star league, only the Houses remain and even then they are vastly different than the game’s version …..
And yes I have killed off all WMDs within my game ….. Ethical responsibility will have its day ….
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
ghostrider
09/01/20 11:40 AM
66.74.60.165

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I believe more then a few thought Nicholas was distorting their ideas and the SL. But as they did with the exodus, they decided to stick with it.

Information can be accessed to all that can physically get to them. Which is far more then you might think. Granted taking the books or computer files and leaving with them would probably get you into trouble, you can still read it. The idea that the khans have the unbreakable password isn't likely at all. They are vain and egotistical, as well as arrogant that no one would try to defy them. And as said before, if a person with a password dies, how does their replacement get it? They probably don't. A new account is made. But does that mean the scientists delete the old ones? An account from a dead khan could well be given out to the masses to look up that information themselves.

Yet those adventures are not all encompassing. They are small areas on the map, and with that, you could very well ignore most of what happens. Alter reality and wish are but two ways to do so. For those that are too big to ignore, then simply moving into an alt prime can be done. Magic does wonders verses the strict happenings of Battletechs universe. There is a specific timeline as well as events that have to happen, if you want to keep anything close.
Wick
09/01/20 11:57 AM
173.247.25.195

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Maybe a free election in 2340, but I seem to remember reading that at some point one of the Cameron Director-Generals had a law passed to ensure only a member of House Cameron could stand for Director-General. So at some point, the elections sort of become a rubber stamp for the head of House, usually unchallenged or perhaps with only a token challenge from a cadet branch.

Still, only electors of the Terran Hegemony would vote for Director-General. I can't imagine its a citizen-wide vote, though perhaps planetary citizens vote indirectly and the electors are bound to honor the results, in similar fashion to electors in the USA. I'm sure it would also be limited to the Terran Hegemony, not all the member and associate states, though its probable people in high position with double citizenship (Amaris family) may have a vote.

I know of no Star League era examples of a Star League-wide public vote or even direct voting beyond planetary or small interstellar empire scale. A Clan Kurultai comes closest, as it might be spread across dozens of worlds, though its still limited to only the Warrior caste. So if you consider the "shareholders" to be Warriors, and "CEO" to be "Khan", then I suppose the comparison is valid, but its a rather weak argument in my opinion as this form of semi-democracy only arose post-Star League era.
ghostrider
09/01/20 05:50 PM
66.74.60.165

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Cash flow can be helped some by not going out and buying the mega mansion, or the BMW, which seems to happen a lot when people start making money. The developers, like CEO's, should only make money if the company makes money. Not pay personal bills with the incoming money, and say it was your part of the profits, yet take a salary when the bills came up to more then you would make. Seen that happen more then a few times.

Consider the developers are very concerned about another lawsuit, so following anything to closely would result it total company failure.
Getting the rules straight among the board, tabletop, and RPG is necessary to get anything going. But even before that, getting the rules straight and following them entirely and consistently. Once that is done, then they can get to making the story/game on track.

You are not making your own game. You are modifying another. Or at least from all the garbage complained about in the threads says.

If a book doesn't make sense, then you never buy another one made by that author. If you like it, then you either just go with it, or wait until a new book comes out, and hope it explains a little more. The original Star Wars book didn't explain everything. Most of the first books in a series don't explain it all. If they did, then the book would be far to long, and still lose the reader. Books tend to have a limit on the number of pages.
Also, as said before, the issue is saying canon is wrong because the alt is the only viable way it can be done. This is a completely false statement. The constant saying the alt does this or that, and canon is wrong because of it is where this gets into an argument.

Out of all that bs ranting, how many of those elections had the general public vote? Not those in power, but the masses that will be affected by the outcome? None.
The masses voting is where democracy springs from. Otherwise, you tend to get... wow.. feudalism. Only those in power vote. Hmmm..

How many times did the SL have an election for anything? I mean the entire thing.
So those in power, put forth their personal choice in an emergency. I do not see anything about the masses having any say in this, except trying to pass off the house councils as such. They will vote for what will get them richer or more power. They will wheel and deal so it looks like the people they are supposed to represent, will get their way. Yet that doesn't happen.
The people in the parliment are normally hereditary people. Their families have had that position for some time.

Again, the response suggests you have not read, or understand the history of the IS.
Both the FS and DC have had non warriors ruling their nations. You say it is impossible, yet it is in print. Look it up in the books as there are several in each family line.

And no one in the 3025 with specific names exist. Hanse Davion, Takashi Kurita, Katrina Steiner, Janos Marik, Max Liao, don't sit on the thrones in 3025? Sorry. It is not different from canon.

And with this, I say again. Go to the official site and start this conversation up. They will tell you, canon can not be wrong as it is the story of those that made the game. It can have large holes of inconsistency in there, but those that created the game says this is what happened. How can that be wrong?
Requiem
09/01/20 07:52 PM
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Quote:
But as they did with the exodus, they decided to stick with it.



And in doing so lost their personals soul and the soul of the SLDF, proving how cowered they were – where was the honor of the SLDF and their officers from their days in the SL? …. They knew it was wrong – All it takes for evil to win is for the good to do nothing …..

Quote:
Information can be accessed to all that can physically get to them.



And how many freeborn would that include? As the most dangerous would relate to their days as the SLDF within the SL when they were actually an ethical force for good, and not the sons of Amaris they are now!

Quote:
The idea that the khans have the unbreakable password isn't likely at all.



And yet this is exactly how the coordinates for the Exodus road worked …..

Quote:
if a person with a password dies, how does their replacement get it?



Ever seen the films involving the president’s computer to start WW3 – ie the football – seen the cards they give out that you have to break open ….. or the computer could provide a new password with every new inductee …. It doesn’t have to be the same one …..

And since when is the most dangerous information scientific …..
The most dangerous has and is history – who we are and how we see ourselves …. Look at the history books and see how the revision has been made to represent the sensibilities of those at the time …… how much has been left out or amended?
Same with the Clans…. Do you really expect them to have documents laying around that show their treatment of the freeborn as well as having a caste system and having a warrior controlled society was never tolerated when they were SLDF within the SL – that during this age it was Liberte, egalite, fraternite ……

To allow this information to the masses and you will be having a civil war with ALL the freeborn demanding their rights and the total destruction of Clan Society ……

Quote:
There is a specific timeline as well as events that have to happen, if you want to keep anything close.



And yet it is very easy to shift anything around if desired to do so …

Quote:
a law passed to ensure only a member of House Cameron could stand for Director-General



the Succession Bill of 2392, which made it nearly impossible for a non-Cameron to become Director General

Problem is TPTB never decided to explain who the electors were and how this Succession Bill became law and if it was ever challenged as being constitutional and they never went into depth to explain the average persons reaction to this Bill …..

Personally this was a coup by the elite against the people – enforced by the will of the military ………

Quote:
Not pay personal bills with the incoming money



Illegal …..

Quote:
Once that is done, then they can get to making the story/game on track.



Must be the reverse …..

Target Market of the Novel far exceeds that of the game – ie the ability to generate more money to be used for the expansion of the Game will come from Novels in the absence of a new owner of the Battletech game who has deep pockets …..

Quote:
You are not making your own game. You are modifying another. Or at least from all the garbage complained about in the threads says.



Semantics !

Quote:
Canon Story



Then do explain how you can say the Canon has a problem and not be harassed at the same time for saying there is a problem …. There are too many elements within Canon that make no sense whatsoever and have never been explained because the problem is so egregious that any attempt would only highlight that the problem is beyond understanding …..
Case in point – Do explain the Sibko System and the Clan Replacement personnel due to loss in Combat and IEDs.
Also explain how the Clans can Garrison Ralsalhague when it has a population of 5 Billion people – especially when you consider that the Clans forces are limited in number by their bid.

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Books



Get the right author and the page count becomes immaterial due to the quality of work ……
There is quality in Battletech – there have been many novels that had quality of work – and yet the overarching story is as about as realistic as a cat flap in an elephant house ….. ignoring the realities of war when you have a very good understanding of historical developments shows here …. The structure of the underlying issues is woefully put together!

If there is any hope for Battletech re-launching and expanding once more back into the game stores etc the entire story must be re-addressed and re-written for the modern age – they are incredibly dated and must be re-worked otherwise there is no hope for the game as they just do not stand the test of time for literature as many others have ….

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Out of all that bs ranting, how many of those elections had the general public vote?



How many times has TPTB decided to explain who and when they were allowed to vote? Unless they explain how can you have a discussion on the issue? – once more a complete blackout as to the subject due to a lack of information …..

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Both the FS and DC have had non warriors ruling their nations.



Then provide a list ……as I will not do your work for you – make the assertion then back it up with facts …

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And no one in the 3025 with specific names exist. Hanse Davion, Takashi Kurita, Katrina Steiner, Janos Marik, Max Liao, don't sit on the thrones in 3025? Sorry. It is not different from canon.



80 pages in and I am still in the age of the SL – Richard Cameron is still alive fighting against the reengage realms, so 3025 is a very long way away …..

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Go to the official site and start this conversation up. They will tell you, canon can not be wrong as it is the story of those that made the game.



Why? – “will tell you, canon can not be wrong as it is the story of those that made the game” – I am right because I am right argument belongs in the school yard not the debating halls

When someone wants to conduct a serious debate let me know then …..

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How can that be wrong?



Pitiful structure of the story, inability to conduct research on the topic, not thinking through the consequences of their characters actions in a wider arena …. Inability to understand the story from a different person’s point of view … as it doesn’t always have to be from the point of view of a Ruler / Mechwarrior – how about an average citizen now and then – how about a partisan on a captured world, how about a freeborn tech,
Pitiful writing in not an excuse
Consider Warhammer – how many stories are taken from many diverse angles – including the lowest of the low ……. This point has made them what they are now how may franchise stores do they have and in how many countries with ho many new stock items put out EACH WEEK!
If you want Battletech to thrive in the future (other than in a computer game) then you will need a completely new revamp of the entire game for the modern age – you will need a Battletech 2.0 in order to reach a viable target market to expand upon.
If this is unable to be recognized then there will be no hope for the game.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
ghostrider
09/02/20 02:05 AM
66.74.60.165

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You still have not read and understood what happened. The civil war on the clan home worlds had everyone disgusted by war. They were all looking for something to break that cycle. Knowing humanity, especially soldiers, had a hard time dealing with non violence, so Nicholas thought of a way to do so and limit the collateral damage. It evolved into something the SLDF was not a part of, but then the SLDF ways gave the civil war it's basis. The clans way, before it became corrupted, was a good way to do things. Once the other castes lost their power, that is when the clans took their dark turn.

Funny that the clans are the sons of Amaris, yet they have not used a single nuke while invading. Only one orbital bombardment, and it was denounced by even the clan that had done so. Yet the IS states, including the FS have nuked the enemy, used other WMD, as well as brutal suppression of the enemy and their civilians. The DC and CC are the most likely to do so, but all of the houses have done so in the past. Sons of Amaris. You got the wrong entity pegged with that.

Again, another false statement. The exodus road was not unbreakable. It was done, and the IS removed the Jaguars because of it.

Have you really not given any thought to your responses? The scientist caste is the one that handles the computer network. The information that can get access to is everything the clans put into the system, even the khans. Nothing is safe from them. They could very well bug the khans private quarters and the khans would never know about it. So you want your little secret wars, as said before, the scientists have been fighting against clan traditions. They only got caught when TPTB wanted them to. It was to save the Falcons. It is suggested that the scientists had been mixing dna from any one they wanted to and seeing the results. And the Wolves could not pull off getting some members into the Falcons as spies, without outside help. The DNA would have to match, so the scientists would have to be involved or maybe where the ones to do so.

Shift around things? The FC came about because Katrina had a daughter by her husband that was helping her run from her uncle. If she wasn't forced to run, she would never have had Melissa. The coordinators assassination on Kentares had to happen, or the massacre would not have happened. The entire SL would not have fallen apart when it did, without Amaris grabbing for power. Change the names, it is still the same thing. Nothing new.

What? Your saying the SL first Lords were political hacks that rigged the system to make sure only their family could run the SL? And suggesting the SLDF were enforcing that very premise? Sounds like foreshadowing of the clans. Or a repeat of history.
It would have been relatively simple to con the house lords into voting for it. Promises, as well as 'gifts' would help seal the deal. The LC may have been given the Defiance factories for their vote. Extra forces, for the FS and DC. Financial assistance to the CC to help get their nation together better, as it was the last one to be formed.

Illegal to pay your personal bills with the company? Are you really that far out of touch? Even in Australia they are having politicians being busted for using tax payer money to pay for their bills, and making more. Corporations do it all the time as well. Perks comes to mind. The company pays for certain people to drive company owned vehicles around, basically making it that persons as no one else gets to drive it, ever. Paying for the family to take a vacation in great places, by saying it is a business meeting, and just handing in the bill.
Yes. It is supposed to be illegal, but it is being done regularly by more then a few people.

Must be reverse? Really? Another response that makes no sense. You need to get the rules straightened out before you can do anything like get a consistent story going. You can't put out a story and change it several times as the rules change, and expect the outcome to be anywhere close. It seems like trying to retcon in things is where the canon story has so many issues. New rules come out, and they try to make it sound like it was always in the story. Yet it opens up holes in the time line. So no. The story has to be done after the rules are done. Otherwise, there is no solid base for the story to build upon.

Semantics? It's called copyright infringement. Using the same game mechanism but only changing the story is still not making your own game. It is stealing from someone else. And as you so often put it, Warhammer and Gundam Wing would be far better to use.

As said before. The use of terms like canon is wrong because my numbers say it is, is where the issue starts. The people who made the game had their own formula that they used to make it. They can not be wrong with their own game. And harassment? The entire farce called the alt history has been nothing but trying to harass the developers which I don't think really come here.
Maybe if you weren't always putting in words and trying the comprehensive reading and just read the books, you would understand why things were done they way they are. It explains it all in there. Weither you agree with it or not is the problem.
The sibko was never meant to deal with heavy losses like the IS war would have done. Once the realized what would happen, they went to increase the numbers, but it was too late. So the clans went where they could. Their own low placed warriors on up to harvesting them from other clans. The truce saved them as much as it did the IS because of that reason. It may well be why the clans did honor it even after Ulric was removed. No one would admit it in the clans.
As for garrisoning worlds, the game has been one to suggest that if the capital falls, so does the world. It is a very basic thing, and one I don't agree with. But if you really went down that road, there is no way the DC could have come about. They could NOT garrison the first few worlds they took, much less the rest. Same thing with any sort of invasion. The need for jumpships would outstrip the entire IS ship numbers. So to keep it simple, the capital falling is what is done.
You want wolfpack tactics, that is where it would shine. Keeping garrison units from ever reaching a world. The forces that took it might be the best, but they could not be moved until the garrisons get there. And removing the ships from existence means limiting them as well.

Again. Quick sand foundation without resolving all the issues with the rules. Infantry became a lot more potent with the change in rules. The big bad units like the Awesome become useless when dealing with them. That would change the entire outcome of more then a few battles. The lack of naval weapons guarding certain facilities is yet another large hole. Ship yards would definitely have them guarding the last jumpship facilities. The inability of remote controlled units is yet another large hole.

You argue more then a few things that have no data available to the public, such as the entire alt history and the amount of resources available. And using that to say canon is wrong.
But if there were ANY sort of ability for the masses to vote, it would be written down. So the idea of feudal society comes to mind. The masses don't vote on much, as only those in power can do so. And even then, only the most powerful of them get to vote. The FS started off as a democracy, but house Davion was able to swing that so they would remain in charge. What is so hard to believe about the SL doing so? The SL was an empire structured entity. The kings or house lords were the next step. Then go on down the line. If any sort of comprehension would be used, it would be in this aspect.

It is not doing any sort of doing work for anyone. If you had actually read the real words in the books you would have known that non warriors did run the FS and DC at times. But they are there. Wow. The first Davion to rule the FS wasn't a warrior at all. They were a simple business man that was voted into the position. And if I recall, it was Jinjiro's brother that ran the DC while Jinjiro ran the military part of it. A non warrior running the DC. Those were in the house source books before the clans came into the IS.

Why? – “will tell you, canon can not be wrong as it is the story of those that made the game” – I am right because I am right argument belongs in the school yard not the debating halls
This is the very premise of the alt. It may have been able to be pulled out, but after all the saying it is the only way, this whole discussion boils down to you saying this very statement.

The writing is horrible, but it still can not be wrong. They are the story master telling their tale of their game. Don't like it, then don't play it. Simple as that. If you want to show an alternative, then do so, but the canon version is not wrong. Saying so because you don't like it, does not help the case of trying to suggest the threads are about showing an alternative. It is using your numbers to suggest the writers numbers were completely wrong.
Requiem
09/02/20 11:35 AM
1.158.133.26

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Quote:
You still have not read and understood what happened.



And I would agree with that …. Here I was thinking the war was due to a sense of identity that was fragmented because Alexander’s inept rule and tyrannical voyage had shattered the SLDF bonds that had once existed within the IS …. And Nicholas was just a power mad child who had a father complex because he felt abandoned by his father growing up and when his father refused to acknowledge him as his son when the House Lords visited Terra … so he could not go to any of the parties / was never recognized as being his father’s son so he became twisted and vowed to destroy everything his father held dear …. And as such the former SLDF personnel who went with him on the second exodus believed the lies he spewed and never really thought through the consequences of what he was planning until it had all gone too far …. And they were no longer SLDF they were Amaris’.

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The clans way, before it became corrupted, was a good way to do things.



And pre 1938 The German Government and people was on the right path ….. take a closer look, they were NEVER a good way to do things - Castes, no last names, feudal society based upon warrior status, second class citizens, not being allowed to remain as a family group, flogging, public humiliation, setting the dogs on people (Literally) – the atrocities during the reformation ….. all they are is an exact match for the German Government pre 1938 or Amaris’.

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Funny that the clans are the sons of Amaris, yet they have not used a single nuke while invading.



How many times did they use them on the Clan Home Worlds? How quick was the Jaguar in ordering the attack?
All it takes is to use it once to show they will do any form of atrocity again if they feel the situation warrants it ……

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You got the wrong entity pegged with that.



No dead on with that assertion.

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Again, another false statement. The exodus road was not unbreakable.



Again please re-read and comprehend what was written – it was in regards to how information is stored not that it was unbreakable.

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The scientist caste is the one that handles the computer network. The information that can get access to is everything the clans put into the system, even the khans. Nothing is safe from them.



Really? Try again who compiles the NSA, CIA, FBI Military Intelligence etc information and what level of security is required – if they (the scientists) had access to all the information then why did they lose their war with the warriors as the incendiary nature of the hidden information should have been enough to drive every freeborn to their cause and as such the warriors and their ilk should have fallen!

Try again ….

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Change the names, it is still the same thing. Nothing new.



Try to explain this to some of the greatest authors ….

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Must be reverse? Really?



Consider – The number of people per target market and their disposable income – Game – Less people as Niche Market – Novel – More People due to a wider audience availability via book shop within science fiction category – ie More profit – more money applied to future business expansion …..


Sibkos – where is even one loss depletion report by a single clan for the entire invasion? And yet the IS has been forces to ensure an endless parade of lies as to their loss depletion reports ….. Vehicles etc vs the Clans …….. then the number of replacement personnel and it takes 6 month to arrive …. Tyranny of distance ……

Garrisoning worlds – 5 Billion people on one world – what was the population of the Clans at this stage? 1/20th ? good luck with garrisoning a single world that out populates your entire clan by such a very high factor ………

Woolfpacks would have decimated the Clan’s rear as once again they were never trained for such a venture whereas the IS are …. And by the way this would have made for a fascinating story line ….. also how hard is it to crack open a history book?

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The masses don't vote on much



Depends on the country and their constitution ….

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The SL was an empire structured entity.



FWL are?

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The writing is horrible, but it still can not be wrong.



Completely disagree – a writer should be held accountable for their work – if something does not make sense it should be brought forward to ask why?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
ghostrider
09/02/20 12:38 PM
66.74.60.165

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So the reason was not the fact that the soldiers in the exodus army decided their native heritage was better then those from other nations, and decided to show them up with weapons. The fact that the succession wars was fought in the clan home worlds, minus most of the nukes. The war itself was so bad, even on those that were outside of the main worlds, could not stand to see what happened, start again. Alls you see is what you want to.
And that little term before they got corrupted. That happened when the warriors removed the other castes from any sort of voting or ruling. But then all governments run into things like this eventually.

The attack was not ordered by the Jaguar khans. It was the ship captain that decided to show the barbarians what would happen if they didn't obey. And when it warrants, the clans honor would stop any sort of nuke as it is beyond wasteful. They try to fight machine to machine in ground combat ranges.

Learn about the real world. The scientists wanted to become the new warrior caste for power. They could not even begin to sway the lower warriors if they used the masses of freeborns and failed trueborns, which all of the scientists were from either one. And in such an uprising, the amount of people they needed to keep the system going would die off trying to fight against the machines of the warriors.
And the fact that the clans are nothing like todays society, you keep forgetting major facts, like the warriors were not the tech experts. The secrets in the system might work against those that blackmail can affect, but most of the clans ways were set. There was no worries of private affairs as they don't do that sort of thing. They just ask to couple. Diverting funds for things? Not likely. Credits are the form of cash, so there is always some sort of receipt of the transfer, so you can't really hide that. Secret deals? There are some of those, but it wouldn't really force a khan to submit to the scientists.

And yet this is exactly how the coordinates for the Exodus road worked …..
That statement says the coordinates for the exodus road was unbreakable. It was used as an example of how the scientists couldn't get into the computer systems they designed, programmed and built.
And considering the context of the statement it was replying to, that was about the scientists getting into the systems in order to get what ever information they wanted to.

The greatest authors don't try to remake a story, and have the same thing happening with just new names. Plaguerism or something like that is the term used. Changing things in the past means the future outcome does not happen the way it was written. The succession wars war not that destructive, then warships would still be in use, and jumpships would be a target. The events leading up to things like even merc units being formed would not have happened, as pirates, true pirates, would not have been able to get anywhere with a world that had the proper level of equipment. The dropships and maybe even the jumpship they used would be taken out. More then a few of the past leaders would not have died fighting where they were at. Even just having the SL survive would destroy the events in the 3000s and beyond. Advance tech of the SL would be in use, so the bs of losing it would change more then a few things. The SL bases would be in possession of the houses, so the entire need to search for them would be gone. No Helm Core. No finding regiments of mechs in caches. The destruction on border worlds would have them devastated, as more units would fight over them time and time again. That is IF the front lines were able to keep the enemy at bay. With ion-lithium batteries, 2 jumps would be necessary with the need to patrol uninhabited systems to avoid deep raids.
So no. The events leading up to the 3000s would change the ruling houses beyond what they could be in 3025.

Did you even read the response again? What does this statement say?
The sibko was never meant to deal with heavy losses like the IS war would have done. Once they realized what would happen, they went to increase the numbers, but it was too late.
This says the clans were going to lose with a war of attrition. It says the sibko method would not keep up with the losses. Then the next part, which is a temporary fix at best, was the clans started getting warriors from where ever they could. Their own lower units as well as harvesting from other clans. Eventually, this would have run out, and it is very doubtful the egotistical leaders would have begun enough sibkos to do anything about the attrition. Eventually, this would have lead to either the complete collapse of the clan way, or they would start using everything they had to stop the slide. This would include orbital bombardments as well as WMD.

The history books of today are not filled with the truth so much. And the concept of the wolf pack works when you have access to your repair and resupply points quickly. Having to wait for a jumpship, which would have to happen, as resources were not there in the canon, would prevent this as well as running into a single warship that would destroy your ships where they were. This is true even if you have warships yourself, as they would NOT be guarding the wolf packs, but hitting the enemy on your worlds.

Context. In a feudal society, the masses didn't vote much, the rich and powerful do. Not sure why you think you can change the meaning of this, unless this is how your conclusions come from. Not reading the entire paragraph at once, but removing everything that isn't what you want.

The FWL is an oddity. They are the closest thing to a democracy, but still a weak feudal system. The 'king' did not have the power to force the 'dukes' to obey him. Too many opposed the 'king' but they stuck together as they would hang separately.

Why? Simple. Not following their own rules to start. Then adding in stuff over 30 years, with trying to retcon in a lot of things. Then add in the fact they did not really think of the future tech and add it into the game years before they did is yet another issue. Not sure if the developers did the actual writing for the books or had someone else do it, but their own numbers were not consistent, even with the same battle. One book says one thing, while another says something else. Example: From the adventure pack Mckinnons raiders. One fight story suggests that the battle hardened warriors thought the dropships were able to fire naval weapons on mech. It suggest one shot would destroy a mech. Then when the person was crawling the mech on it's hands and knees, he said that he was thankful for that no being the case. They do not mention naval weapons as such, but the damage output would be an example. But one issue is the fact that no where in the rules does it say a mech can crawl. Pull itself along is the closest thing. But even that isn't likely over a distance. Then not knowing the weapons on a dropship are the same ones in your mech?
But again. The story is the base for what happened. It can not be wrong as it is describing what happened to get the situation into the current position for canon.
Now for the last part of the statement. If should be brought forward to ask why. Presentation starts being able to ask why. Jumping in and saying it is wrong because it doesn't follow your views is one of the worse ways to start that conversation.
Wick
09/02/20 01:01 PM
173.247.25.195

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Quote:
To allow this information to the masses and you will be having a civil war with ALL the freeborn demanding their rights and the total destruction of Clan Society ……


Except the Warrior caste military, controlled by trueborns, has shown capacity and willingness to exterminate lower levels of society to maintain their grip on power. That's why those with such information end up dead, or in the Bandit Caste or The Society, undermining the Clan system not by civil war, but by more indirect means.


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Problem is TPTB never decided to explain who the electors were and how this Succession Bill became law and if it was ever challenged as being constitutional and they never went into depth to explain the average persons reaction to this Bill …


Must the authors explain every piece of legislature mentioned in canon? There's a limit to how much detail is needed to make the story work, especially many hundreds of years before the prime plots occur. I mean, few people know all the details behind the rise of the Roman Republic, or the signing of the Magna Carta, yet they provide the basis for most democratic government systems in the world today. Its sufficient to say "this happened 400 years ago to set a precedent" and unless there's some serious detail to undermine it, it doesn't really need to be questioned. Would it be nice to know the detail? Sure. But let's not go so far as to call it a problem. It's such a minor, insignificant detail that to complain that it wrecks everything else about Battletech is ridiculous.


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Also explain how the Clans can Garrison Ralsalhague when it has a population of 5 Billion people – especially when you consider that the Clans forces are limited in number by their bid.


If these 5 billion people are disarmed, what are they going to do, throw sticks and rocks at Battlemechs and Elementals? A PGC or two seems more than sufficient to garrison any world, regardless of populace size if that populace really has little means to defeat the Clan war machine. I'm sure there were riots and discord, but only at local levels swiftly snuffed out by the Clans. They'd take more drastic action (executions, sterilizations, etc.) if rioting got out of hand. In in any case, the Wolves and Ghost Bears were less strict with conquered Spheroids. They mostly let people live their lives as they always had, except for industries that could support military uses no longer being able to sell on an open market. Plus, these people were used to being under the yoke of foreign masters - they'd spent centuries under Combine rule. In fact, it had been established that on many worlds of the Inner Sphere, the publics were rather used to the idea of being conquered by another power, and perhaps only the nobles, military, and militia, and a few other institutions (such as clergy in the NACC on Combine-border worlds) feared it.


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If there is any hope for Battletech re-launching and expanding once more back into the game stores etc the entire story must be re-addressed and re-written for the modern age – they are incredibly dated and must be re-worked otherwise there is no hope for the game as they just do not stand the test of time for literature as many others have …


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You are not making your own game. You are modifying another. Or at least from all the garbage complained about in the threads says.


Semantics !


No, that's exactly what you just said you were doing. Taking "bad" canon (in your opinion) and rewriting it to be "better", but call it the same game.

Alt histories are fine, and even alt histories that explain themselves as more reasonable, or a better fit for other canon events is fine, but to say everything else is unreasonable and only your version makes sense is highly egotistic. You are not the best author in the world. Nor do I particularly find your story anymore believable than what established canon has done. There are stretches of the imagination in both canon and your alt history. As both are entirely fictional, one can not be proven better than the other. Except one has a 35 year established history covering the efforts of hundreds of contributors, and the other newer, written by one person. Besides pointing out your perceived flaws in the logic or outcomes of certain events, you really haven't done much to definitively prove your alt history as any better than canon history, and most certainly have not proven that the history needs to be completed redone to increase sales.

In my opinion, what is needed from a fiction/history standpoint are two things: heroes and better spacing. Hanse and Justin were guys you rooted for in the early books, Victor and Ulric in the Clan Invasion/Civil War/Jihad books, while Dark Age seemed to get muddled with more of an ensemble cast. Too much change occurred in the 3050-3085 timeframe for a lot of players to wrap their heads around, then they did it again in the 3132-3150 timeframe. Developers did a better job moving the start of Dark Age out another 50 years, and with ilClan coming another 100 down the road - this gives time for changes in the political or military landscapes to occur to make more sense than these one or two year complete reversals of fortune, but they try to do too much in too little of a time with too much personnel turnover. (Alot happened in the short 4th Succession War as well, but its not like the War of 3039 happened in 3032, and the Clan Invasion in 3034.) I can't see how Alexsandr Kerkensy (or Richard Cameron or anyone else) as any more a hero in your story than in canon, and you've collapsed everything down to the 10-20 years at the end of Star League-era, presenting the same overly dense timing. By these two metrics, I find your story does not pass muster as "better", though I still find certain aspects of it to be intriguing what-ifs.


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If you want Battletech to thrive in the future (other than in a computer game) then you will need a completely new revamp of the entire game for the modern age – you will need a Battletech 2.0 in order to reach a viable target market to expand upon.


Dark Age is arguably Battletech 2.0. New game mechanics and attempt to rewrite history to put less focus on mechs. And it backfired badly. The game just isn't as good and alienated fans of classic, and the novels were, as I understand it, not as engaging or popular as the earlier ones. Maybe you're wise to keep the same mechanics and only rewrite history, but no guarantee that its better. Except continuing to add to the end, as Dark Age and ilClan do, does not upset fans of or change the facts that happened in earlier eras. Yours does. Your plan utterly erases the late Succession War era that I love just to satisfy problems you have with the late Star League era. Your professed desire to destroy Battletech 1.0 to create your Battletech 2.0 (or 3.0) will be met with resistance by anyone with a stake in 1.0's history. That's 100% of current players. You or anyone else wants to tweak things that run off 5,10, 25% of players, okay, that's perhaps acceptable loss if recovered by newer players. Dark Age risked running off so many players that they had to bring them back into the fold with the Classic Battletech line. Say you went to market with your idea. How are you going to get the fans of later eras to buy in? How are you going to convince bookstores to sell books for a history that has been abandoned? (Star Wars is experiencing this problem since the sequel trilogy came out.) What becomes of the hundreds of mechs, art, and details supplied? What happens to websites like sarna.net? You're actively campaigning that the efforts of all the people that created it should be undone for the sake of a potentially more realistic story? You claim a revamp is needed but intend to not just repeat the mistake made with Dark Age, but do it in greater scope.

On the other hand, I do agree a revamp is needed for broader appeal, but with the gameplay, not story. Early editions of Battletech centered on late Succession War era is much easier to pick up. 2nd edition Citytech rulebook is about 40 pages (and included dice, boards, and cutouts), Compendium bloated to about 130 pages, Master Rules to 150, and Classic Companion is a whopping 250. The rules have gotten way too complicated for new players to pick up and way too much rarely used mechanics or detail. It got so bad that they had to introduce Quick-Strike just to speed things up again. (That said, I appreciate the Classic Quick Start rules simplifying things down to a 15 page PDF, complete with board and cutouts, but I don't think this is a product sold in game stores so its market appeal is more limited.) If a revamp to appeal to larger audiences is needed, I argue it needs to be in the ruleset, making Quick Start the "Basic Set" and adding additional rules on top of it as needed for campaign and era.
Requiem
09/02/20 07:41 PM
1.158.133.26

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Quote:
It was the ship captain that decided to show the barbarians what would happen if they didn't obey.



Galaxy Commander Cordera Perez is not just a ship’s Captain – he was the Commander of Clan Smoke Jaguar’s Beta Galaxy thus making him a senior officer ……

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They could not even begin to sway the lower warriors if they used the masses of freeborns and failed trueborns,



Thus demonstrating the stupidity of the entire venture – how about a true coup that recognized how to cut the warriors off from the knee and no the half baked plan that was given? Again can we have some reality in the writing as this is getting embarrassing.

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And yet this is exactly how the coordinates for the Exodus road worked …..



And yet the original question was in regards to how information was kept secret – ie every clan had one piece of the Exodus road and it would take all the Clans to put this information together to form the complete road’s coordinates from clan space back to the IS.

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The greatest authors don't try to remake a story, and have the same thing happening with just new names.



Consider Shakespeare’s Macbeth ….
Akira kurosawa version; the version set in the 1900’s; the version set mid 1900’s etc
Many have taken liberties with their stories over the years …..

Plagiarism – relates to taking a direct quote out and not recognizing the original source …

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the clans started getting warriors from where ever they could. Their own lower units as well as harvesting from other clans.



First – their own lower units – Freeborn? Or Solhama? Or PGCs – problem is PGCs were very small – Jade Falcon was only equated to two IS Regiments and The idea of training more Freeborn will take a long period of time and be met with derision from all the other clans – as for Solhama – how many remain alive as most would run off in a do or die mission for one last chance at immortality ….
Second, harvesting from other Clans – if done correctly and not the cheating as shown post Falcon / Wolf War – with the Jaguars and the Home Clans – harvesting if done correctly you could end up losing more warriors than you obtain as it supposed to be a full out war and not the stupidity of warriors just giving up so that they can switch sides and go fight in the IS …. Where is the Clan Warriors pride?

So again – a complete white wash as to clans cultural norms so that they can cheat with the forces they have available against the IS – in all reality at this point the IS should have killed off both the Falcons and the Wolves and the Jaguars should have taken a beating due to harvesting of their warriors!

Re-write please as this is very bad writing ….

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they would start using everything they had to stop the slide. This would include orbital bombardments as well as WMD.



And as such you now agree that they are Amaris’s?

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And the concept of the wolf pack works when you have access to your repair and resupply points quickly.



Submarine warfare – WW1 and WW2 – Germany and America ….. try again …..

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In a feudal society, the masses didn't vote much, the rich and powerful do.



Ever consider reading the notes attached to the majority of the planets in the books ……

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The FWL is an oddity. They are the closest thing to a democracy



And yet the democracy is there ….. just the same as the LC has their Estates General …..

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has shown capacity and willingness to exterminate lower levels of society to maintain their grip on power



Problem is – if they kill all the Freeborn who are waging a war against them who is going to make things in the future like food – military weapons etc - remove the freeborn and it is a total collapse of society due to the lack of people actually doing the work to keep society going ….
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There's a limit to how much detail is needed to make the story work



And yet the really good stores actually do explain society and how it works by placing in information here there and everywhere to make the story more dynamic …..

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few people know all the details behind the rise of the Roman Republic, or the signing of the Magna Carta



Thus proving the point of how bad education is today in some countries ….

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But let's not go so far as to call it a problem. It's such a minor, insignificant detail that to complain that it wrecks everything else about Battletech is ridiculous.



D&D …. Don’t you need this type of information just in case it is necessary for your players to go down this track?

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to say everything else is unreasonable and only your version makes sense is highly egotistic



Try again … re-read why I made my assertions and why I have made them, oh so many times, and yet every time I did no one bothered to read or remember what I said …. And please do stop saying I say things when I haven’t ……

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Say you went to market with your idea. How are you going to get the fans of later eras to buy in? How are you going to convince bookstores to sell books for a history that has been abandoned?



It all comes down to the author and the quality of the story – as for getting it into bookshops this is via the publishing houses – how does any book get published and sold in book stores? Make a good product and they will sell and buy it …..

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If a revamp to appeal to larger audiences is needed, I argue it needs to be in the ruleset, making Quick Start the "Basic Set" and adding additional rules on top of it as needed for campaign and era.



Whoever has the largest target market and the largest disposable income and can produce the largest profit over a short period of time should be considered – cash flow need to be increased so as more products can be created – as Warhammer’s weekly release schedule demonstrates a vastly efficient corporation with a massive employee base to produce everything …..
Something that should be the aim of Battletech within the next 35 years …..
So again what is the first step to reinvigorate the brand?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
ghostrider
09/02/20 09:35 PM
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Wick.
Requiem wants everything spelled out, yet complains that it doesn't allow GMs any input into the game. So yes. Everything has to be spelled out, so he can poke holes in it to say it is wrong.

Now back to the regular programming...
Senior officer? The khans themselves said he over stepped his authority. They did NOT order such use. And you say the khans have ultimate power over their clans. This shows the logic hole in that statement. They do NOT have complete control over their clans.

What does that have to do with the scientists being able to get into the secured files in the computer memory cores? And you honestly think that there isn't a back up map or two in the system? You are out of luck if one clans loses their section of it. Having it stashed in the HQ when it is attacked and that is destroyed. There is no way they would allow that. So each clan could not have the only data on the one section. Otherwise, they would have used it to be part of the invasion. Not giving it up unless they go. And with this, you question why it takes so long to get supplies to the IS? Sheesh. Try comprehending every thing before you try and complain.
And no. The original question did NOT relate to the Exodus road information. Comprehension failure number... 5 million I think it is at now.

The people that do such things like rewrite stories with just name changes are NOT great Authors. They are hacks that are lucky if they don't get sued. Great Authors come up with their own stories.

Bringing up the truth of what would happen does not mean I agree with it. This very concept is why you don't understand things. Your Psycology major is worthless, as you can not see or understand this.
Also you left out the other part where I said the clans ways of life would collapse. So did you skip that part? It was part of the same sentence.
Amaris wasn't the first or only person to do something like this. He was the one that gained the most infamy for doing so. Yet the succession wars had for more nukes and families wiped out due to their noble blood belonging to the enemy nation. But this point destroys the focus on Amaris. And the nukes would have been a major factor in removing SLDF troops from getting to the field. So the horrible losses make sense when that is added in. It still doesn't explain it all, but no one thing ever will.

So how long would it take a sub to reach the nearest solar system? The week it would take to get back to base on a SINGLE world is nothing compared to what it takes to get back to a base located in the next solar system. But distance is only taken into account when bagging the clans supply lines. I mean all those warships the IS had when the clans invaded had nothing to do but supply wolf packs... Oh yeah. There were no warships in the IS before the clans came. Tyranny of distance is what you call it. I call it just being too long to do much quickly.

The same people that are doing the lesser jobs now. The failed trueborns. There are more then enough to do everything that is needed to. Inefficiency is why there are so many freeborns doing those jobs. Then again, what else are the going to do? It isn't like the clans have welfare.

There is NO story that explains it all. Other then possibly a tech manual. If they did, then the story would be about 2 pages long and the rest all definitions. War and Peace is not supposed to be the typical book, yet by suggesting they all explain everything, this seems to be the concept you are holding.

Even the best historians don't know the full truth of anything in the past. History is written by the victors as well as people who may well have a bias against someone. And translations lose things like how something was written. How something is said is as important at times, on what is actually said. But the great author would know this.

D&D has more leeway as it does not require everyone to use specific histories to play, like Battletech does. And that is worded wrong as you don't need any real history to play either game. Just having the rules and with D&D you make them up when their is nothing covering them.
And this is part of why there are two major books for the game. The players handbook and the Dungeon Masters Guide. Most people playing do NOT follow the worlds that are set up, but make their own. And they DON'T say the canon worlds are wrong, as it isn't their vision.

Then I suggest you reread everything you wrote, as you say things then say you didn't. If you can't remember constantly saying the only viable solution, or can't happen that way, then until you can, adding more is going to confuse you even more. You have said a lot then claim otherwise.
And the things you put out are not assertations, but your views in which to suggest the canon version is absolutely wrong, even though it is what the developers put up to try and explain some of the history.

Having a lot of money does NOT mean you have a good product. Having little money doesn't mean your product stinks when first starting.
And it seems the economic major you have was incorrect. Cash flow needing to be increase so more products can be created is inaccurate. Cash flow means money coming in is used to get products out. If there is no income, then their is only debt spending, not cash flow. Maybe needing a dictionary to get the right words is something you should invest in.
Requiem
09/03/20 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Requiem wants everything spelled out,



That’s it?

Quote:
Senior officer? The khans themselves said he over stepped his authority.



He was a Galaxy Commander – Placing him very high within the Smoke Jaguars Chain of Command ….
First Consider - Corporate Culture - his actions were the actions of a frustrated Crusader dealing with IS freeborn;
Second – over stepping his authority – One crusader disavowing the actions of another because the former friendship has become unpopular / inconvenient politically – in reality the destruction of the city would have been seen as by all Zealot Crusaders as being the right thing to do given the situation.
All this represents is an appeasement of the Warden Faction by the Crusader faction by providing a scapegoat.

Quote:
What does that have to do with the scientists being able to get into the secured files in the computer memory cores?



Consider the original topic regarding the Clan Khans limiting the access to information to a chosen few …….

And no there is no back up Exodus Road Map – Nicholas requires a captive and servile population to enact his megalomaniac vision of deranged society upon.
Remember he is just a Cult leader with a messianic / absentee-father complex, demanding from his followers their blind obedience to all the insanity he inflicts upon a cowered and deranged society ……
The Clans will never be free until they recognize that Nicholas was a deranged cult leader – a sociopath in the worst form …..

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The people that do such things like rewrite stories with just name changes are NOT great Authors.



Try to explain this all the Hollywood script writers.

And the best can actually place their characters into a vibrant and descriptive setting rather than ignoring the entire issue – how many Battletech novels forgot to explain in detail the world they were on and just glossed over the facts?

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Bringing up the truth of what would happen does not mean I agree with it.



Time sets all things right. Error lives but a day. Truth is eternal.
James Longstreet

In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king.

An education allows for discerning objectivity –
My warning is either the establishment of a new overarching story for the Battletech Universe is achieved (for a new clientele – as the target markets dynamics have shifted) or watch what remains slowly fade away into obscurity …. There is a need to consider the achievements of the many competition games and the reach they have achieved into the average gaming shop as well as the vast range – then consider the number Battletech has produced as well as the quality ….

As for Amaris – if Kerensky was not so incompetent at his job Amaris would have been but a footnote in history and the succession wars would not have occurred…..
The real fault for the fall of society lies at the feet of both the Mad First Lord who appointed Kerensky and Kerensky himself for being incompetent at his job …..

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There is NO story that explains it all. Other then possibly a tech manual.



Except for the great literature pieces ….. and even some mediocre are even able to achieve something special …..

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History is written by the victors as well as people who may well have a bias against someone.



And yet historical truth is starting to be unearthed by those willing to find it …..
Understanding history as well as who writes history allows for future generations to learn from the mistakes of the past.
It also allows for novelists to establish vibrant stories for settings in the past or for those with the acumen to do so in a future setting …..

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And they DON'T say the canon worlds are wrong, as it isn't their vision.



And fellow gamers don’t get bent out of shape when a new world and anew vision for a world is created because the game and the gamers allow for tolerance.

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And the things you put out are not assertations, but your views in which to suggest the canon version is absolutely wrong, even though it is what the developers put up to try and explain some of the history.



Assertion Definition - a confident and forceful statement of fact or belief;
The basic act of asserting is in itself an expression of your personal beliefs, feelings or opinions ….. ie. my views as to the errors within the games historical narrative when considering the political, sociological, geographical, economic, military tactical etc standpoint …. Ie. MY VIEWS

Two mutually distinct viewpoints can be established!

Ever considered how the War-hammer franchise establishes their history – novels and manuals?

Quote:
then their is only debt spending



Insolvent trading is an illegal business practice.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
ghostrider
09/03/20 08:02 PM
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Wow. It couldn't be that the crusaders knew such actions would inflame the populace that finds out about it, making their career skill that much more difficult? Or that it was a waste of a city because someone lost their temper? Maybe the othe crusaders would take this as an example of what they will do in the future to anyone that disagrees with them, and start planning to remove them as soon as possible? Nope. It has to be those in a stronger position to placate the weaker ones for some reason.

Where does it say there is no back up maps? The fact that if each khan had but a part, that would have been a real issue trying to head back to the IS, when clan Wolverine would have taken their part with them, or destroyed it. And they did find their way to the IS, so something is wrong here.
Now the fact that each clan had their own route to the IS, that they put stop in so they could move things back and forth. I don't remember seeing anything saying they had multiple routs in their care, nor did I see anything about each clan having the same section for each station. Overlap is more likely, as distances to each star is different. So one route might have a section that is 40 light years, but someone having a more direct route might have a section 50 light years.
But the idea that each clan had a part of the map and no full maps were kept is bs. They could NOT remove all information from the entire clan populace. It is most likely someone in the Kerensky Cluster kept one, so if they had to head out because of the civil war.

Script writers in the movie industry are great writers? No wonder you have so many issue understanding things, and that is your own words.
No one cares if it was a blue bird, or red robin the tweeted outside in the lush green gardens of Babylon. Only so many words fit into the paperback novels that most want to hear how the hero escapes, not the actual scenery of the sewer pipe, unless it is important. Was the darkness black? Umber? Midnight blue?

He who lives by others words is a moron, as he will be given things to make them look like an idiot. BS Master Donkey Puck.
An education is to teach someone how to do something. An open society will have multiple ways of doing so. A closed society will tell you this is the way and punish you if you do it another. It is not done so you can discern things objectively. You get taught fire burns, so don't put your hand in there. What objectivity is there? Burn your hand be doing so, which isn't objectivity, but learning that the person was correct in telling you, fire burns.

You just said that societies burn books meaning they are burning records of what happened. How can you unbury it if it is pure ashes? The truth is hard to keep, as someone will always try to change it. Much like the battletech story. Paraphrasing as well as the inability to translate information properly changes the 'truth'. Leaving out a paragraph with each new printed book changes history. The only way to keep the truthful history is to put it where no one can reach it and change or destroy it.

Get real. New worlds and ideas aren't the issue. It is continually saying that the canon is wrong because it doesn't fit with someones vision. More then a few games create new worlds, as the old one fills up, and there needs to be new places for the story to continue. The new worlds do not say negate history of all the others ones because it isn't liked. If this was true, then more then a few entities would have erased horrible deeds done by them.

Maybe the concept of writing the back grounds when the story is released, and not years afterwards could be the key to something being more successful. But no. It has to be the fact that it doesn't fit with what is wanted.
Requiem
09/04/20 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Nope. It has to be those in a stronger position to placate the weaker ones for some reason.



The Clans are a divided society that has resulted in a permanent Warden and Crusader factions.
Since time immemorial power has been the key note and not the ethical / rightful use of a WMD – as this is quite immaterial.
The result of this fragmentation is noted in the Clan Council’s Political alignment, the member’s numbers to one side or the other with regards to the Clan Council and the warriors as a whole. Embarrass the Crusaders and the Wardens ability to control the Council increases and their power also increases … and the ability to enact their policies is also increased.
This is the only reason the Crusaders were sufficiently embarrassed sufficiently to remove the Galaxy Commander – political failure would not be tolerated.

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Where does it say there is no back up maps?



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the idea that each clan had a part of the map and no full maps were kept is bs.



Try re-reading Exodus Road.

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Overlap is more likely, as distances to each star is different. So one route might have a section that is 40 light years, but someone having a more direct route might have a section 50 light years.



Except for the except from Exodus Road ….”To prevent the Inner Sphere forces to discover the road, the road was divided into several stages. Any ship that traveled the route had to erase its navigational data before the next part of the journey as a security measure. The Clans established HPG stations between both end points, to keep a direct communication. These stations also were responsible of unloading the parts of the Road to the ships who travelled the route …”
Ie. there was but one highway there and back …..

Quote:
They could NOT remove all information from the entire clan populace. It is most likely someone in the Kerensky Cluster kept one, so if they had to head out because of the civil war.



Cannon fact …. One map, can anyone see Nicholas letting there be any other maps out there and allowing his “subjects” a chance at escaping as the Wolverines did?

Quote:
script writers in the movie industry are great writers?



Quentin Tarantino
Francis Ford Coppola
Woody Allen
Oliver Stone
George Lucas
Stanley Kubrick
Akira Kurosawa
James Cameron
Mel Brooks
Monty Python Team
John Huston
Horton Foote
Thomas Heggen

Try again ….

Quote:
No one cares if it was a blue bird, or red robin the tweeted outside in the lush green gardens of Babylon.



Really? Emblematic representation within a story and especially for poetry - Cummings’ has an example that should have been discussed in school but probably never made it that far due to what was being discussed …..

Quote:
He who lives by others words is a moron, as he will be given things to make them look like an idiot.



“Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world”
Nelson Mandela
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
ghostrider
09/04/20 12:41 PM
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When rioting broke out following Hohiro Kurita's escape, Clan Smoke Jaguar dispatched a number of vehicles to control the violence, using Indra Infantry Transports to attempt to intimidate the population into submission,
So there were no clan vehicles seen in the invasion? Under the Turtle Bay Massacre entry this statement is at.

In the aftermath the Smoke Jaguars would fight their own people, Perez was challenged and lost his command to Dietr Osis. This does not sound like they replaced the Sabre Cat from his position thru normal political channels. He lost a challenge for his position.

Another interesting fact about Turtle Bay. While that attack did put an end to the rebellion, it ironically also made the Jaguars lose the planet: after that atrocity. This would cause all of the planet's residents to become hostile against the Jaguars, knowing they would die if a Jaguar decided so. For this, the Jaguars simply declared the planet pacified and refused to let a garrison remain there.

There have been so many times a novel said something, and it wasn't true.
To prevent the Inner Sphere forces to discover the road, the road was divided into several stages. Any ship that traveled the route had to erase its navigational data before the next part of the journey as a security measure. Hmm. Looks like the reason why the Road was not entirely available was due to the clans not wanting the IS to seize it all at once. It was not broken up to keep the clans from using it. This is under the Exodus Road entry in the wiki here.
No full route between the Inner Sphere and the Clan homeworlds has ever been made public but certain systems along the route(s) can be identified.
What do you know. Multiple routes to the clans home worlds. It is at the bottom of the wiki page.
Guess reading the print, and not putting in your own comprehensive words needs to stop. It has been incorrect for more then a few times in just the last 3 posts.

Most don't want poetry in the middle of a sci fi action book. Some description is needed, as well as some back ground. But the entire information of a world is just not needed. Information important to the story is given. The coordinates of the system isn't really needed to move the story along as well as magnetic axis, unless it is used for something, like hiding a ship in the area. And even then, a simple statement takes care of that.

Education only works when people ACTUALLY know and use it. Otherwise, it is nothing but hot air. And yet the education being given may be inaccurate or down right wrong. The entire closed society tends to be a very big example of this. And then you have those that twist it to fit their visions. Again. Most closed societies tend to do this as well.
Interpretation of the law is how a lot of people get out of being punished for committing crimes.
Requiem
09/04/20 05:41 PM
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The Clans
A dystopian nightmare of a society established by a willful and hate-ridden child in order to get back at their absentee father … and allowed by former ‘cowered’ SLDF officers who should have known better …. But, who have ‘sipped’ from the cup of power and have become intoxicated …..
Like all politics the clans fall to their own flaws established at the time of their creation and allowed to fester …..
Politicians, such as the Clan hierarchy, play the old game of power from the dark ages, and have forgotten the true meaning of their duty.
The game (in my opinion) has been belittled by their existence (as is) someone really should have explained what was created and why it should never have been allowed to remain.

The die is cast and all shall know the truth when it comes be known! In the fullness of time when wisdom prevails and ignorance and vanity are swept aside by shadow of the PC ….

Quote:
……using Indra Infantry Transports to attempt to intimidate the population into submission. So there were no clan vehicles seen in the invasion?



Ghostrider, do you ever undertake research / read the article before making statements?
Indra Infantry Transport – production year 2842
Operation Exodus – 2784
They are DC IS made vehicles that the Clans had appropriated ….. though the question has to be asked as to whom operated the IS craft as it would have been a blot on their service record to utilize the weapons of the IS barbarians …… especially for a Smoke Jaguar Warrior!
So once more there are cracks in the game that make no sense when compared to the established clan society rules …..

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Perez was challenged and lost his command to Dietr Osis.



So? Cordera Perez had become an embarrassment and was seen by his peers as weak for giving into his emotions, so he was challenged …..

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the Jaguars simply declared the planet pacified and refused to let a garrison remain there.



At which time the DCMS could have just walked in and re-taken the world …..

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There have been so many times a novel said something, and it wasn't true.



The appointment of an editor would have improved things ……

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What do you know. Multiple routes to the clans home worlds. It is at the bottom of the wiki page.



The section entitled Other Rotes? Did you bother to read these entries?
The title is a misnomer as the entries at hand – perhaps other historical points of note would have been better …
Pivot – is the first planet from which sailors can see the pentagon system and is in the Exodus Road
Caliban Nebula – is just a generic description between the original exodus route and that of the Invasion route.
Gamma entries – are uninhabited periphery systems along the Exodus Road ….
12901 – used as a stopover by Clan Wolverine (and note there are two 1290 entries here)
1301 – used as a stopover by Nicholas in pursuit of Wolverine between 32 to 35 Jumps from Clan space
So only points of note due to their historical references …..

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Most don't want poetry in the middle of a sci fi action book.



Warriors have been writing poetry for a very long time …. Consider reading WW1 –there are many great poets of this time – Manfred Von Richthofen’s (The Red Barron) is on particular note …..

In rounding out characters providing them with knowledge as to literature would have been a definite plus …..

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Education only works when people ACTUALLY know and use it



Really? Again what happens when a person from a closed society is provided information from an open society ….. again a complete lack of understanding as to the wider social dynamics ……

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Interpretation of the law is how a lot of people get out of being punished for committing crimes.



Not in my experiences …. The law is far more than this ……
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
ghostrider
09/04/20 10:00 PM
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The members of the scientist caste who engineered the Indra tried to keep its motive systems safe by using HarJel to repair small tears in the tires. Though this is ineffective against most anti-vehicle weapons, it keeps the tires inflated against the hazards of the road.
Wow It's a clan vehicle, not taken from an IS entity. Guess that means someone didn't check to make sure the IS didn't have any before saying the confiscated it from the DC.
And it was under clan vehicles in the 3060 tro on pages 46/47.

In the movement up, people challenge others for their position. Not saying it is impossible for the person to gain backing to do so, but the Sabre Cat captain was NOT removed from someone saying you no longer had a job. It was done in clan fashion. Big difference.
Also, there is nothing said about the act being set up by politics.

The DC could not retake the world as they did not have the resources to keep it. As if fell further and further behind the enemies lines, it became unachievable to do so. When the Jaguars were removed, then they could do something.

The concept of someone believing things told to them about an open society only works when it is only recently that someone has been put into the closed society. Once indoctrinated, those in the closed society stop believing what they consider as a farytale. Something told to you in order to get you to risk yourself doing something illegal.
A lack of understanding does seem to be where your responses are coming from. So many are graduating that don't even know basic math, or completely ignore what they were taught that are in society now, that trying to get things done is getting harder and harder. These are the people that are easy to manipulate as alls you have to do is compliment them, or agree with them. Your Psycological degree does nothing in the world of physics. Oh yeah. Not actually knowing the educational material for physics means not being able to use it properly...

How do you think all the rich get out of paying their share of taxes? The law goes something like, trying to make a reasonable profit.
In business, there is no try to. Either you do or you don't. And the reasonable word is where most get into avoiding them. Reasonable for me is making 100k. For others, 100 mil isn't reasonable.
I know Australia isn't the far off from the world wide issues. The person that didn't bother with the fires and not being charged with several crimes is a good case.
Requiem
09/05/20 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Wow It's a clan vehicle, not taken from an IS entity.



Yes I will admit that.

However did you notice the real issue? – TPTB are modifying historical records – Forum: Turtle Bay Massacre is now re-directed to Forum: Battle of Turtle Bay…
Clan vehicles are now included into the Invasion whereas before they never were included (hence the mistake)
And on top of that we now have new people and mercenary units that never existed before …..
One can only wonder how far this amended history will go ….

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Big difference. Also, there is nothing said about the act being set up by politics.



Except if you can comprehend what is going on ….

Quote:
The DC could not retake the world as they did not have the resources to keep it.



And yet what percentage of the DCMS force was utilized against the Clans and if it coule be done with Wolcott why not Turtle Bay.
This statement only holds true if you believe in the Status Quo – for the rest of us it is just something to laugh at ….

Quote:
Once indoctrinated, those in the closed society stop believing what they consider as a fairytale.



How has that worked for the majority of closed societies around the world – just look at the number of defections and at the same time look at the statistics for Black Market activities within a closed society ….

It is not full proof …. There is always the minority who jump the fence and when they do they empower others to follow them ….

Quote:
So many are graduating that don't even know basic math, or completely ignore what they were taught that are in society now, that trying to get things done is getting harder and harder.



And the Ivy league Universities and how about the state Universities …. Yes there may be some that are given a pass for one reason or another – but for ever one of them how many actually get a Degree and know what they are doing ?

There is no absolute with education and the people within …..

Quote:
Your Psycological degree does nothing in the world of physics.



Except for the fact that I can read and comprehend what is being discussed ….. and I can always ask for assistance when I do not understand – thus I can be educated on the topic ….. and from there I can discuss the salient principles …..

Quote:
Taxation Law



Work in progress …. And is far more complicated ….
Social Responsibility
R&D
Economic responsibilities – inflationary issues, growth issues
Realignment of the economy due to unemployment numbers
In a perfect world we could have everything but we are not and people always want to tinker with tax for one reason or another …. And in so doing increase / decrease the number of holes
And no it is not you do or you don’t – this is why people work for charities, not-for-profits, social / environmental groups …..

The same could be said for the IS ……..

So it looks like I am getting my re-write to a limited extent ….. I just wonder how far it is going to go …..how many holes are TPTB going to close with their re-write …. Problem is they are now going to have to explain a lot more and in a lot more detail …..
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.


Edited by Requiem (09/05/20 11:35 AM)
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