AmaroqStarwind
04/24/18 04:40 AM
174.235.17.140
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One thing I have been wanting to make for a long time is a BattleTech campaign that actually places Robotech and BattleTech into a near perspective, as merely two alternate histories of a shared universe...
But in order to actually make a campaign, besides just some one-off scenarios where Explorer Corps and/or Clanners people run into Invid and/or Zentraedi and/or some of the would-be Sentinel races, I first need to gauge interest, gather feedback, get some playtesting done, and figure out gameplay and construction rules for alien races and/or technology... I also need help expanding on lore.
Specifically, if Robotech and BattleTech are merely diverging timelines, then what have the various alien races been up to this whole time (since the non-events of 1999 onwards), given that they had no real reason to visit the general regions of space now colonized by humans until the events of the campaign?
Disclaimer: All notes I have taken and ideas I have formed so far, except for what has already been stated, is very much subject to change.
So, I need some help... Not just from people who have experience actually making campaigns for anything period (this would be my first), but also from people who sufficient experience with Robotech (especially the extended universe and associated lore, bonus points for the separate Macross extended universe as well) to help me fill in the gaps. Anyone who also has experience with RPG could also help me with some basic stats for alien tech, converting to BattleTech mechanics and then adjusting as needed for balance purposes.
Some vague ideas I have right now, regarding technology bases:
- Tyrolian / Robotech Master technology would be a separate techbase entirely, and would basically be the Zentraedi equivalent of Lostech. While Tyrolian technology is compatible with Zentraedi technology, it is only in the same sense that Clan technology is compatible with Inner Sphere technology. Zentraedi/Tyrolian and Human technology bases are mutually incompatible.
- Same rules apply to Invid technology versus Human technology, except the Invid don't really have multiple technological tiers like Human (Primitive -> Inner Sphere -> Clan) and Zentraedi/Tyrolian technology bases do.
- Because over a thousand years passed, some artistic license needs to be taken with the Zentraedi. They have to have learned to modify and repair their equipment at some point, especially since the Tyrolians are more than likely long extinct and the Zentraedi would more than likely have turned to in-fighting.
- There will be no UN Spacy/RDF, Southern Cross, REF, or EBSIS/Krugatch equipment, since those organizations never existed in the first place (unless you invoke the infamous Misjump, which I would prefer not to do unless I have no other option). Humans would be completely unaware of the existence of Protoculture, and none of their technology would run on the stuff except for the occasional laboratory experiment on a remote Deep Periphery world somewhere. A salvaged Protoculture engine might, in theory, be usable in a human battlemech, but it would take months of work to retrofit the mech to use an alien engine, and there are bound to be a lot of hiccups along the way. Poor fools wouldn't even be aware what can of worms they're about to open...
- The Sentinel races (or at least the ones still alive) would have been working together for so long that they would have a single, shared technology base. However, aside from the occasional energy shield or anti-gravity, don't expect it to be much better than Age of War stuff (at best). Not even those robot surats from that one movie will be able to keep up with modern (for the time) Inner Sphere and/or Clan technology.
- It will probably take place before (or around the same time as) the Clan invasion, so if both Inner Sphere and Clan technology make an appearance (since Inner Sphere explorers are bound to accidentally cross paths with Clanners at some point), it should be extremely brief encounters, and would most likely be overshadowed by literal alien stuff going on. If it is somewhere closer to the Jihad Era or to the FedCom Civil War on the other hand, then expect there to be Far Country references.
- Yes, the SDF Macross will eventually be found, but it will most likely get mistaken for a Star League vault rather than a starship, and will have been buried for hundreds of years.
- As much as I want to include the alien factions from the Macross spin-offs, I really don't know enough about those shows to do anything beyond the occasional reference. Especially since I don't know where conflicts may or may not occur. Therefor, no technology base for them for the time being.
Okay, with all that out of the way, I really need some help getting the basics set up. I don't even have any scenario plots yet, let alone gameplay concepts. For instance, what am I supposed to do about Zentraedi versus BattleMechs? I don't even know where to start...
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
MechEngine (Alpha) -- On Hiatus
The Scientist Caste has determined that time travel is dishonorable.
Edited by AmaroqStarwind (04/24/18 04:43 AM)
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Karagin
04/24/18 09:49 AM
72.176.187.91
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https://m.facebook.com/groups/1642366472704877/?ref=group_header&view=group
They have rule set you could start with for ideas.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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AmaroqStarwind
04/24/18 12:23 PM
174.235.17.140
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I would prefer to do this from the ground up. The further I stay from Facebook, the better.
On top of that, Dimensional Warfare is entirely about skirmishes as opposed to on-going campaigns, and would require learning a third (and still in development) system just to perform an extra step of conversions, and some things are actually lost in the initial conversion to Dimensional Warfare with how simplified it is.
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
MechEngine (Alpha) -- On Hiatus
The Scientist Caste has determined that time travel is dishonorable.
Edited by AmaroqStarwind (04/24/18 12:27 PM)
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ghostrider
04/24/18 02:20 PM
66.74.61.223
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I would first suggest dealing with the tech that the invid/zentrae25di have.
Alot of their mecha flies. Not just, but flies.
Then the whole can of worms of their weapons. First off, the round for robotech is 15 seconds verses the 10 for battletech.
Now the really nasty stuff. The particle beam cannon does 5d10+25 per shot, up to the limit of attacks the character can have, which can be more then 5.
Which leads to the number of attacks characters can have. BT doesn't have a limit of the number of weapons that can fire, except what is on the unit.
Damage and armor really have an issue as well. Mega damage does not take damage from structural damage weapons. So normal hand guns do NOT harm the armor at all.
Missiles are even beyond battle tech with not only range, which the normal weapons have over BT, but the damage they do.
We won't even touch the reflex cannon, as it is beyond even nukes.
And the standard issue for infantry. The Cyclone. Elemental armor doesn't stand a chance against a single one without totally nerfing damage and such on the robotech side. This is but a small taste of the headache you will inflict upon yourself.
Oh and a doozey.
The space fold drive. Jump anywhere in the universe, without worrying about 30 light year limit.
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AmaroqStarwind
04/24/18 10:33 PM
174.235.17.140
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I am well aware of how overpowered Robotech weapons are in comparison to BattleTech. Take the Warhammer, then take its Destroid counterpart, which is lighter, faster, doesn't have to worry about heat and has even more weapons, let alone what those individual weapons are capable of. A so-called "Short Range Laser" has a maximum effective range (in Earth-like atmosphere) of two kilometers, much further than even an Extended LRM.
Granted, the ranges were more realistic due not only to Robotech RPG coming out much later than BattleTech, but also the fact it didn't have tabletop miniatures to worry about, merely Theater of Mind.
Damage is a different matter entirely though, and is entirely a result of different scaling and measurement. I rule that 5d10 + 25, or anywhere from 30 to 75, Mega Damage could be divided by 5 to become equivalent to a Standard PPC with a random chance to do only as much damage as a Light PPC, or an equally random chance to match the raw destructive power of a Clan ER-PPC. The average damage output, though, would be that of a standard PPC, only at the mercy of random environmental factors. That also means torso armor of 100 MDC would be roughly equivalent to 20 Armor Points on a mech, give or take some adjustments to account for both structural (construction rules) limitations and for whatever technological edge you would get from a 500-year technological headstart due to having all of your equipment reverse-engineered from alien lostech.
The [human-built] reflex cannons used by the REF can easily be nerfed to match a Cluster/ER version of a Naval PPC. The original SDF's reflex cannon definitely fits the category of non-recoverable technology, and would probably be just as limited-use in the BattleTech timeline as it was in the original Macross; the people who find it into this time line are never going to convert the SDF into a transforming ship, because that is the stupidest idea ever. In fact, they might not even remodel the ship as extensively as the humans on Macross Island would have... To them, it is more valuable as a location on a planet to conduct research, and it might not ever be realized that it is in fact still space worthy (or for that matter, capable of leaving the planet under any circumstances).
The Space Fold engine... It is never actually demonstrated what it's maximum range is, but I imagine that it is basically just a more advanced alien counterpart to a KF Engine. I doubt it's actually limitless range, maybe a 120 light year range, plus the ability to operate inside of a gravity well at the risk of reducing the drive core itself to slag (or in some extreme cases, removing it from existence entirely), not as a malfunction, but an intentional sacrifice to prevent far more catastrophic results.
Bear in mind, I'm intentionally avoiding giving anyone access to existing human designs from the Robotech universe, for the sole reason of nobody being around with technological knowledge to build it in the first place. (Otherwise, we would have historians freaking out because effective Land Air Mechs were invented 9 years before Dr. Kearny and Dr. Fuchida even published their hyperspace equations in 2018, or around 430 years before the invention of the Mackie.) The only circumstances in which any person in the Inner Sphere, Periphery or Clans got their hands on a Logan Bi-Modal LAM, Spartas Hover Tank Mech (which somebody already made BattleTech rules and a TRO for), a Legioss (either half, the Alpha or the Beta), or a Mospeada is if it slipped in from the other timeline by way of Misfold (preferably with an intact pilot, for that Stranger in a Strange Land feel). Valkyrie fighters are another story, due to the Wasp, Stinger and Phoenix Hawk LAMs all already existing and would probably be modified to serve as test beds for salvaged alien technology.
...that awkward moment when I realize the SDF-1 blew up five years ago...
Anyways!
Zentraedi and Invid construction rules...
I'd definitely nerf Zentraedi mechs to be Jump capable, but not flight capable... they're basically ProtoMechs the physical size of proper BattleMechs.
I would probably also have to give the Zentraedi a height reduction, otherwise the shortest foot soldier would still be taller than an Atlas. It is worth noting, though, that BattleMechs aren't actually that strong in physical combat given their size and weight, so a Zentraedi foot soldier could probably tear the arm off a Timber Wolf with minimal effort. (Actually, when I broached this subject with a friend, they suggested using a BattleMech record sheet for a zentraedi foot soldier and assigning critical spaces to their internal organs... This may also indicate that the Zentraedi might be cyborgs in this version.)
The Invid can keep their flight though, because they're basically a cross between AirMechs (not quite LAMs because they can't transform, and they do seem fairly cumbersome on the ground) and 15-to-55 ton ProtoMechs.
- - - - -
Edit: Slight deviation from alien construction/gameplay, this idea just struck me:
Imagine the first part of this playing while an REF starship just barely escapes being destroyed along with the rest of the fleet in a confrontation with invid... By executing a space fold under all of the wrong conditions and vanishing from the known universe forever...
Robotech, Track 36 (stop listening after 2:04)
....only to reappear nearly a thousand years later, in a completely unrecognizable version of the milky way galaxy, right in the crossfire of an already on going naval battle along the border between two warring Successor States. Oops.
Genesis Climber Mospeada Vol. 1, Track 09 (skip to 1:58)
That would probably just be a one-off scenario, unrelated to the plot of the actual campaign.
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
MechEngine (Alpha) -- On Hiatus
The Scientist Caste has determined that time travel is dishonorable.
Edited by AmaroqStarwind (04/25/18 01:51 AM)
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ghostrider
04/25/18 01:28 PM
66.74.61.223
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I will assume you have looked at the hand held weapons and their damage. Some are powerful, and others not so bad.
Now their are more little things that need to be straightened out, like the ac's the robotech units use. No ammo limits. Which was smart of them, but does lead to some issues with reality.
And I will assume you will drop the fire rate of each weapon to once a round, not as many attacks as the pilot has. Otherwise, using the pbc 5 plus times would really wreak havoc on other units.
There is another pretty big factor that needs to be taken into account. The armor for mecha only takes half damage from laser weapons.
The sdf used in the invid invasion did not transform, but was a third of a mile long. The pbc turrets are pretty nasty, though for space, they are short ranged. But there lies a bigger issue of closing the gaps. The 1 minute turns for aerotech.
Though it is something that might be worth seeing. But in this case, I believe it too much work to get it together.
One suggestion for the Zentraedi. Have this era happen after they go thru the micronization time. Make them the same size as the humans, such as the sentinel books does.
Though the missile system firing would have to be nerfed. Firing all 88 missiles of an alpha fighter can do some major damage, even with nerfing it.
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AmaroqStarwind
04/25/18 04:46 PM
99.203.27.180
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It is just the Southern Cross mechs that take half damage from energy weapons (they even have footage in the show where bullets work just fine, but lasers fizzle out against the armor). Southern Cross mechs, from what I remember, also aren't the most durable. And it was already described to be a ceramic coating...
Thus, they most likely would use Reflective Armor, with all of the advantages and penalties that would apply.
Also, I was pretty sure that the SDF-3 was a full mile long, and since it was built by humans that means it wouldn't exist in the BattleTech timeline.
Similarly, micronized Zentraedi would not be as widespread as in the show, since in all of the timelines in which the Inner Sphere exists, Zentraedi would never have met humans in the first place and would see no reason to start shrinking themselves.
Well, they would have a reason (resource consumption), but that probably wouldn't occur to them right away, even in a timeline where they started learning how to repair and modify their own equipment after having turned to fighting amongst themselves. Micronized Zentraedi would still exist, but only in small numbers, and for very niche cases.
For the Alpha fighter, the multi-missile system could be implemented by bending the construction rules to allow ProtoMech and Battle Armor sized weapons to be used on BattleMechs and Land Air Mechs, and it would just have 88 LRM Tubes (100 kilograms per tube using ProtoMech missile rules, or 8.8 tons total; this also means Fractional Accounting would be used). I think I also remember the launchers being One-Shot models, but it has been a while since I watched Mospeada or read my Robotech RPG manuals.
Again though, as the veritech fighters were invented by humans, they wouldn't exist in the BattleTech timeline right away; any mecha and equipment from the Robotech Defense Force, Robotech Expeditionary Force, Southern Cross or EBSIS would only appear by means of misjump/misfold, and would automatically have the Non-Standard Parts, Illegal Design and Obsolete negative design quirks due to the fact they would no longer be in production (for obvious reasons, they're from another universe!) and would frequently violate established construction rules.
Fortunately, precisely because being on the receiving end of Misjumps which not only originate from another universe, but also from nearly from a millennium prior, and without destroying whatever was on board at that have such an astronomically slim chance of occurring, I don't actually expect players to find human Robotech equipment anytime soon. Balancing the human equipment is very low priority at the moment.
If you want an example of a Southern Cross mech converted to BattleTech rules, look no further than the attachment (taken from Mecha Press #15).
Attachment (224 downloads)
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
MechEngine (Alpha) -- On Hiatus
The Scientist Caste has determined that time travel is dishonorable.
Edited by AmaroqStarwind (04/25/18 05:08 PM)
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AmaroqStarwind
04/26/18 11:00 PM
99.203.155.29
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Actually, I have to wonder...
Protoculture was always described as establishing a symbiotic relationship with the operator and their mech, but what is the protoculture getting out of the arrangement? And how the heck does it create a link between the machine and the pilot anyway?
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
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AmaroqStarwind
05/02/18 02:27 AM
174.235.30.252
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Some music / AMV for setting the mood:
https://youtu.be/SOk-0okum0Q
I think I figured out just how the hell Protoculture manages to form the symbiotic bonds between man and machine that it is known for. If you compare Protoculture from Robotech, and the Protomolecule from The Expanse, you will find that the name is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to similarities.
Meanwhile, there are two very key systems on a BattleMech which would be very vulnerable to biological contaminants (such as Protoculture); the Life Support, and the Myomers. A mech's muscles are composed primarily of genetically engineered bacteria, a very juicy target for something like Protoculture/Protomolecule, which thrives on the assimilation of biomass. At the same time, if it gets into the mech's life support systems, then it's going to infect the pilot's nervous system in no time.
Keep in mind two other important properties of protoculture; it powers Invid telepathy, and it also causes both hallucinations and precognitive visions when ingested by a human in large concentrations (not gonna lie, Zor was a bit of a stoner in the novels), symptoms which have been demonstrated more than once in the show.
Let's rewind to my comparison between Protoculture and the Protomolecule; they are both biological agents, they both have mutagenic properties, they both can function as a source of energy, they both can mess with gravity, and they both can mess with your head. Also, the second one tends to kill you and then use what's left of your body to construct a quantum computer. (Also, a sample taken from a biological specimen is actually called a Culture. Therefore, a sample of the Protomolecule aptly fits the definition of the word Protoculture).
So, the most plausible explanation to the crazy stuff that Protoculture can do in Robotech, specifically the link between man and machine, is that it infects the pilot's nervous system and the mech's biomechanical components, initiating things like quantum entanglement. How it even gets out of the engines and into the rest of the mech, though? Well for starters, it's alive, and it can bend the laws of physics at a whim, so I'm pretty sure that isn't really a problem for it.
Gameplay-wise: If you gave a mech in BattleTech a Protoculture engine, then any time the heat level exceeds a certain value or it suffers engine damage there is a tiny chance of a Protoculture leak occurring. Over the short term, nothing will happen, but if you survive for long enough after nearly getting blown up (engine crit, yo!), then the protoculture will begin to spread throughout the mech. As the pilot goes on more missions using that particular mech, they will start experiencing similar benefits to being equipped with Enhanced Imaging, but it will also adversely affect their mind. Paranoia, hallucinations, false sense of confidence/security when operating the mech, and increasingly disturbing dreams at night.
Not to mention the other major downside to using a Protoculture Engine: As soon as you meet the Invid, you will have a glowing yellow bullseye on your back that only they can see (take the rules for Null Sig, and invert them), and maybe even some residual glow on your person when you're outside of the mech because of the protoculture spores invading your nervous and respiratory systems.
By the way... Dr. Lang from Robotech is actually a prime example of what happens to somebody after a protoculture overdose. You'll have to read the novels though, because I don't quite remember all the details.
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
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