House Archaeology Units

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Requiem
04/10/19 04:00 AM
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Question: Post First Succession war all houses are experiencing a decline in technology – would not all Houses establish both civilian and military units to preserve what is left as well as implement a recovery mission of any lostech technology that is buried within the ruins of the old?

Consider them to be a pre-curser to Snord’s Irregulars – but on a much larger and more organised scale?

We know the DC established a civilian organisation for that exact purpose – so why not a military unit with the same remit?

Thus for an Alt. Universe game – The year is 2837, Archon Marcus decided to take advantage of House Marik’s plight by establishing an offensive against the Marik worlds of Oliver and Graham IV.

Though the initial invasion timetable was interrupted when the Draconis Combine once again attacked Hesperus II. The green defenders were able to route the attacking Kurita forces after only two weeks of intense fighting leaving the way open for Marcus’ original attack force to commence their operations upon the Free Wolds League once more.

Attacking Lyran Units….
32nd Lyran Guards (Originally upon Solaris); and
1st Lyran Paragons (The Reclaimers)

Unit Briefing:-
Graham IV – Applicable Information.

Currently…..
Graham IV still retains a small mining presence on the world that is focused upon the few resources and ores that could be safely removed. Unfortunately most of the planet is radioactive and as such most of their population lives within two massive space habitats orbiting Graham IV

Prior to the Amaris Civil War….
A SLDF Space Defence Sysyem;
Two shipyard which were both destroyed during the First Succession War;
Five Castle Brians were built upon the planet;
Three of the Five Survived the Amaris Civil War and the remaining two Castles Brian - Fort Baldwin, located near the planetary capital, DeKirk City, and Fort Ball were defeated with the use of repeated nuclear strikes;
Dekirk City was also leveled by one large nuclear weapon. The destruction of the city also revealed a secret aerospace R&D facility built beneath the planet’s capital, the Icarus Research Centre, which caused the facility to collapse turning the entire area into one large radioactive sinkhole;
The widespread nuclear bombardment leveled most of the planet’s surface and apparently destroyed the planet’s multiple manufacturing complexes;

Manufacturing complexes upon Graham IV prior to the Amaris Civil War included….
First, Mitchell Vehicles; and
Who manufactured…
Battlemechs …. MCY-97 and 98 Mercury; GLH-2D Galahad; HEP-2H Helepolis; SHG-2H and 2F Shogun
Vehicles …. Kanga
AeroSpace Fighter …. HCT-213 and 213B and HCT-213BC Hellcat and Hellcat II
Dropship … Colossus
WarShips … Luxor-Class Heavy Cruser and Essex-class Destroyer

Secondly, DeKirk Aerospace.
Who manufactured
Warship …. Congress-Class frigate

Possible Defending Military – Unknown – Assume Regimental Military Unit.

Lyran Commonwealth Aims – Graham IV is to be brought under the Lyran Commonwealth dominion – Thus planetary conquest followed by space and planetary archaeology survey

32nd Lyran Guards
Primary Targets….
The two massive space habitats orbiting Graham IV are to be acquired by marines prior to planetary insertion.
Planetary spaceport is to be acquired.
Planetary defending force is to neutralised or driven from Graham IV.
Alternate Target …
The 32nd Lyran Guards are to hold until the 1st Lyran Paragons have completed their survey to the satisfaction of their Commanding Officer In the event they consider the situation to be tactically unviable over the long term.

1st Lyran Paragons …. To investigate the following ruins (radiation permitting)
Primary Targets ….
Manufacturing complexes for Mitchell Vehicles; and
Icarus Research Centre located below Dekirk City
Alternate Target ….
The two shipyards that were destroyed during the First Succession War
All five Castle Brians that were built upon the planet.

Thoughts about my alt. universe unit / game?

So what would happen if any of the lostech was found – what would you want? – so, what’s next?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Requiem
04/10/19 06:32 AM
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The main reason why I thought such a unit might be valuable is that of both the Technical Readout for 2750 and also Succession Wars.

I want my mercenary unit circa 3025 to be able to have ‘Mechs from both of these two books. (just remove all the advanced weapons and electronics)

How many others out there would also like this proposition?

plus I believe this would make for a great ongoing adventure ... and the research would be fun also as you target a world along the border (or even a deep raid being and hidden to all others whilst you conduct your dig!) .... then attack!!!!

Fun, Fun, Fun!!!!!!
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
ghostrider
04/10/19 06:22 PM
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There should be mechs from 2750 and earlier in Cache's and such. Might need a refit, as some things like endo steel would not be available to fix any issues.
And such caches should contain information that had to be left behind, especially those 'secret' research labs that seem to be pretty common in the IS. Maybe the prototype or alternative research on a better gauss rifle, or maybe more efficient ER mods for the lasers.
If you really wanted to change a few things, the initial research into lighter missile launcher that were say 3/4ths the weight.
Even some new research into making the League weapons better. ERPPC that only builds 14 heat, instead of 15.

One point that should be made here, is the League and clans targeting systems are not better then the 3025 era units. Why?
They were supposed to be superior. Special things like targeting comps, but it should be in the main units, not an add on.
Requiem
04/10/19 07:52 PM
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Good points,

Hopefully many others may adopt this strategy to bring back many ‘Mech designs that they once thought was lost forever. And even bring back manufacturing some of the designs.

So, they find the plans and ten years latter, Hesperus II is manufacturing the Mercury – the Lyrans needed a good light ‘Mech.

It could even return advanced weapon systems earlier than originally thought of, so that when the Clans returns the IS may have warships also – thus they are more on par when it comes to the invasion.

Thus the scale of wars between the IS and the Clans may increase – it would also fix the Turtle Bay incident – the DCMS could send in their own warship against the Jaguar warship rather than ignoring any act of revenge.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Requiem
04/11/19 07:03 AM
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These units could also be used to re-examine old maps and the worlds that are no longer colonized for their strategic usefulness – due an ever changing border.

So, consider looking into lost maps and their subsequent lost planets contained there in

For example, between Vantaa and Ridderkerk (near Twycross) is the world of Kreller –A hidden base of operations for clandestine operations during the Clan Invasion could have been considered and as yet no one looked through their old Maps - and the Clans didn't go in for hiding their forces upon depopulated worlds - and they should have them upon their current maps as theirs are from the end of the Star League!

I just wonder how many other worlds are out there that are lost to all except for those that go hunting for them.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
CrayModerator
04/11/19 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Question: Post First Succession war all houses are experiencing a decline in technology – would not all Houses establish both civilian and military units to preserve what is left as well as implement a recovery mission of any lostech technology that is buried within the ruins of the old?



ComStar did run operations to hunt down and collect/destroy old Star League facilities.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Requiem
04/11/19 08:22 PM
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QUOTE “ComStar did run operations to hunt down and collect/destroy old Star League facilities”

How? Really, this is one of the largest plot holes in the game – upon every world – every university – every school – every home (school text books regarding science, technology, mathematics etc) – How many companies that were never attacked – like the Lyran world of Alarion – Port Sydney Shipyards - You can assume they have their own educational departments to ensure the workers work to a level that is required by their KPIs. So how did these just disappear one day with everyone not knowing how to do their job one day?

There is also training where you have a master craftsman teaching his apprentice – as from year dot to consider, so how did the IS loose everyone from every field to loose this information!

So how do you remove all the information from all of the worlds?

Plus, how many governments would have established bunkers full of technology – art work – historical documents et al in the event of nuclear attack during the First Succession War!

Sorry, but I cannot see how this blanket statement could ever be considered to be factual as it is just not believable.

so there must be a level of technology that even ComStar cannot remove from the IS.

As for hunting for information contained within the rubble - how did they do this - someone would have noticed - the government would never allow ComStar (or anyone) to go poking through the rubble, and again how could they do it upon every world - there are also lost worlds that are heavily radiated and poisoned with WMDs that make any form of a detailed investigation very difficult.

Plus some worlds remain important - how do you conduct an illegal excavation of a former Star league Facility under the eyes of the security forces of every Great House and get away with it every time!

Plus there is also human error - they could have assumed that with the city above the nuke destroyed everything and they never investigated - so when a group does conduct an investigation they could come up with something.

sorry but in my opinion they may be able to gain access to some but not all.

Thus ComStar will need to create other "white" groups (Military Units with 'Mechs?) to stop all the exploration groups from all the houses at the same time or send their agents to sabotage any finds - but sooner or later someone is going to get caught - and when that day occurs ComStar will have a lot of explaining to do (and this needs to be taken into consideration).

In my opinion a level of technology can be returned to the Inner Sphere if units like this begin hunting - plus it would be fun to run - and it would provide units with former lost 'Mechs.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
ghostrider
04/11/19 09:32 PM
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Not thinking sneaky enough.
Simply removing the information wouldn't do it. But replacing it was faulty information would go further to destroy anyone trying that out again.
This is not saying removing it wouldn't work at all.
Any transmission that comstar could access, could well distort or add a virus to make sure information was wrong, or incomplete.
As the first war rages, there would be alot of issues keeping information valid and up to date. Some worlds may well be destroyed beyond help at that time, so were 'forgotten'. Even those in the government could well remove that information, and kept it safe for only a small few to see.
And when they die without telling anyone, it becomes like lostech.

Comstar working to remove vital information from the data banks of all houses is a part of it. If you really want to deal with anyone looking for it, a simple upgrade of navigation information that has the wrong jump co-ords for a system could well make anyone else think the system is dead, or something doesn't allow ships to return. Not even needing to use military force to destroy them. Simply move it too close to the main star would suffice.

But as said before, there would be information in older systems that might have been pulled off line during the Amaris war. With all the caches found, comstar did not have anywhere close to a full record of what was out there. Camelot Command is a good example here. Losing a war ship production facility that was not destroyed shows something went wrong, maybe even corrupting Comstars files.
Requiem
04/12/19 12:17 AM
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The biggest problem is saying all the information from every world concerning one specific topic no longer exists … the huge scale to achieve this is incredibly complicated and the amount of people involved would have to be in the tens of thousands.

You would have to go to every world – investigate all probable and actual sites – complete a thorough investigation including a dig – and remove / destroy everything.

There is no way this can be done.

Let us consider some of the prime candidates ComStar would have to have access to and all without anyone noticing

All major Universities upon not only Capitol Worlds but also any other major world;

All Military Academies throughout the IS – they should have examples of every weapon / military electronic device – thus you should be able to re-engineer from their held information alone!

All major corporations – as they have their own educational departments;

And remember the Academies and the Corporations would have their own security teams – so bypassing them is not really that believable!

Let us consider the Rim World Republic – in all the confusion of Kerensky’s forces attacking Amaris home how much was lost? And how much could be found in the future if a team went out there and investigated.

Yes, you could have a ComStar team attempting to destroy some of the finds – but they must be aware if they are caught then it is game over for ComStar – so we are discussing very high risks for ComStar – thus I could postulate that they would only attempt an intervention when and if something very major was found – as for a new Battlemech design this would not qualify as a new weapon would mean one state would be able to kill off another quicker – and is this not the overall aim of ComStar – all houses kill each other off – ComStar rides out and re-established the Star League under a Blakeian Theocracy!

No, the overarching premise that all technology / understanding concerning a specific topic was destroyed utterly throughout a universe with how many hundreds of worlds is a complete and utter fantasy and should be treated as such.

It is just a question of finding the information and returning it to an educational body who could them disseminate it …..

And in all reality this is where the ComStar agent would be …. In a position to hide what he/she can …. or replace where possible ….
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
csadn
04/18/19 09:15 PM
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An example of ComStar's methods for acquiring/concealing Tech appears in the novel _The Price Of Glory_.

As to "groups existing to preserve Tech" -- [looks upward; whistles innocently]
CF

Oregon: The "Outworlds Alliance" of the United States of America
Karagin
04/18/19 09:56 PM
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Or the ComStar raid on the NAIS HQ on New Avalon during the 4th Succession War...another stellar example of their "preserving technology" or more like their preserving their monopoly on technology. I am surprised that they allowed the Wolfhound to even be built...or the Hatchetman.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
ghostrider
04/18/19 11:00 PM
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How many of the houses had tech levels equal to the League when it fell?
As it was suggested, the houses did NOT have that level of tech, nor did they have solid information of where to find it. So a chunk of tech was never known to the houses to begin with.
Now with the 1st war being so damaging, how many of those areas that houses built were destroyed by nukes?
Or raids? It wouldn't be difficult for Comstar to hit repositories and such, and frame someone else. They did have control of the coms for the IS. Simply deleting, or adding to some reports, then making sure those issuing it did not survive to get back home.
Viruses and such consistently loaded in reports and such would eventually do their work. Uploading directly to some data banks would spread the false or modified information, removing that from use.
One thing that has to be added here. This was not done in a 6 month, to 2 year cycle. This was done by the League and then Comstar. Yes. The League would have had their own counterspies doing such a thing to protect the Leagues systems.

Then you have the issues of if you trust someone from say the CC when you work in the DC. Do you think they are misleading you? Check the coords, and find it is deep space or a world so radiated, it glows all night long?

One thing that might have allowed the Wolfhound to be built was comstar was not supposed to side with any nation, until the 4th war. They were, but the first circuit only started overtly showing it when the FC was going to gobble up the CC. And it was only because of this, the first circuit was 'forced' to deal with it. The Wolfhound was pretty well done at that point. Same with the Hatchetman. The Axeman might be one that would come to mind, as well as any back doors in the programs running all of those mechs. But that could be said of all mechs produced in since the first war. Simply having parts of a virus in several programs that would only activate when you ran several different programs together. Such as engine monitoring, with tracking and then use the coms.
Karagin
04/18/19 11:47 PM
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Thing is we don't know fully what the houses had or didn't, recall, that over 90% of the information we have about the houses are from ComStar sources as in-universe books like original Housebook or the TROs etc...then the next level are the intell reports for things like the 20 Year Update, so our Point of View is not a clear one. Even the novels muddy the water since each author writes from their characters point of view and that too is bias and skewed.

Prime example, the raid by the Dragoons on Huff in Wolves on the Border, they attack a facility that is working on double heat sinks, only to find out that there was much more that was truly being worked on.

ComStar and the WoB had a vested interest to NOT let anyone get to advanced, and thus they would do all they could to prevent things from moving forward.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
ghostrider
04/19/19 10:19 PM
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I agree with advancements being worked against. The wolfhounds only real 'progress' was the full head ejection system. Otherwise, it was just putting in parts in a different configuration. Nothing new.

Which does bring up another question. The original Star League had the tech in 2750 TRO, but was the house tech equal to that? Or was it more of the older versions of it? More weight. More crits. Less effective. Those sort of things comes to mind.

Now for comstar screwing with people, the Goliaths found just as the 4th war started up, is something that should fall under the houses not finding such things.

Overall, the one nagging question that comes to mind is just how many storehouses did the League have around the IS? If you think about it, they seemed to have more in storage then was being used. 300 plus years later, and they are still being found.
Someone said comstar would not be able to do digs on house worlds without someone knowing it, yet the League was able to BUILD on worlds without the houses knowing about it.
Those buildings and warehouses should have been the first things the warring houses went to take. Comstar did have some ways that they could have done so, though it would be a stretch to have multiple worlds suffer from a nuke leak in areas, IE drop some from a passing ship to clear out an area. Even looking for a new com station comes to mind.
Karagin
04/19/19 11:32 PM
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Okay so there were store houses, cool, but let's be real, stuff dry rots, seals break, components age, wear and tear happens to things even sitting in mothball.

Okay a SL team or company building on a world...hey company A is going to build this mega project for Planet R, so while they are doing that they just happen to build a hidden storage site. Not hard to guess on that.

Or they bribe the locals to ignore the happens and then if anything leaks, they are like uhmm, we are building solar power stations and that is what is shown built. Rumors are easy to start and easy to keep alive.

The house tech folks like NAIS and others would have the information on the older tech, and they would have figured out how to make a version of it, but is the cost worth it? The Inner Sphere can make Clan spec weapons but the cost in money and materials is not something the House rulers are willing to pay for.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
ghostrider
04/20/19 07:35 PM
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The Dragoons and Snord's unit were looking for league caches when they first got into the IS.
Some were already looted, while others weren't.
What did they find?
Where did it go?

Not really a huge deal, but it shows the logic failures. I will grant some leeway, as I don't think the initial release believed it would get that far. But I am probably wrong on this.

Now the novels and adventure packs screw up the perception of a cache find. I don't remember seeing much about having to fix the units they find. Some were jump in and use them to defend the unit immediately.
And even if you did take time to fix it, how much of the equipment at that time actually fit into the league mechs? Some that were not used in over 300 years?

To make all the clan stuff might be too expensive to do at once, but after a few years, the costs would drop. Unless the materials are that rare. Then the clans shouldn't be able to make them. Magically finding a world rich in those resources is very questionable.
I would think double sinks would be worth the cost. Less criticals used means more equipment can be used. Maybe fit the ferrous fiber armor, or endosteel to free up some weight. The ERPPC is another one worth it. Doing the extra damage with the same heat cost seems to be a good reason to do so. The missile launchers is a no brainer. Even if it is just used for the elite units, it would be worth it.
We already had the discussion of just how much bs the cost thing is to most houses. The earth today seems to spend that much, yet only has one world. Not hundreds.
Karagin
04/20/19 11:59 PM
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The idea of SL caches is and has been one of the things that can make or break things in the story line. Sure you can find stuff but again how much is actually usable? How much is still functional?

Ghostrider you argument on the IS making Clan tech is similar to ones I have used, and depending on who was here at the time as far as active members, the remarks were either hey good point to how dare you question things. The idea is they would have made similar weapons and kept some of things that worked for them, with the "normal" stuff being dumped on the merc market as well as on the minor powers. House militaries (just like real world ones) get the new wonder toys before merc units would.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Requiem
04/21/19 02:31 AM
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Even during the FC Civil war we find Snord’s Irregulars upon Odessa conducting an archaeological dig.

And what of all the abandoned and lost worlds that occurred for a variety of reasons from war’s WMDs; during the Amaris War how many Rim Worlds Planets just disappeared or even satellite factories or just due to a natural disaster (famine) etc. how often has anyone returned to investigate these worlds for possible salvageable technology for at the time people when they were being evacuated, were they forced to leave behind their large machinery? – such as agricultural / mining etc.

Has anyone completed a survey of these lost and forgotten worlds contained within the historical vaults upon each capitol world – what secrets might they contain by just finding a world’s name and its coordinates. Consider all the Military Unit Reports that may contain a snippet of information.

Also consider this during the 3039 war FC Vs. DC – the utilization of lost jump points used by the DC to strike at the FC. Why not remember lost worlds that could become staging bases for future invasion corridors – unseen and unknown once more.

And then we have the ComStar’s White Aerospace fighters destroying a found warship within the Periphery … and what about the WOB’s hidden five worlds …

And lastly what of the time travelling warship – let us not forget this hidden gem ….

There are just too many instances throughout the canon history to consider the supposition that all that was lost is gone for good at any time the writers just put them in for one reason or another and yet we the gamer's are not allowed to even consider this as a viable game as it might upset everything!…. Plus, I must say, it makes for a good story /game as it gives the gaming group the chance to re-introduce lost tech into their game, so why are we supplied with TROs if you are never allowed to use its contents (such as when the 2750 initially came out – and we were never allowed to use it with the 3025 war) ….

People and gaming groups must be allowed the chance to expand “their universe” through the acquisition of the unknown hidden find …..
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Jakapan
06/18/19 07:42 AM
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I'm enjoying this thread and will definitely use some of the ideas in my games with my exploration group, GAS, Galactic Astrographic Society.
Requiem
12/02/19 09:36 PM
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Book: Shattered Sphere Page 5 – A History of the Inner Sphere – “By the year 2235 (119 years after the first colony upon New Earth), an Alliance survey had counted more than six hundred human colonies across a sphere roughly eighty light years in diameter.”

Think about this statement – 600 Colonies – 600 systems within area of only 80 Light years.

So, over the years - some were abandoned – others destroyed outright during the Amaris / Kerensky War and the following Succession Wars.

However, once you consider this information, shouldn’t this area contain the remnants of these former colonies - also shouldn’t many of these worlds also have the remnants of space stations and naval yards that were used to establish the IS as it is known currently.

My interest therefore revolves around the possible salvage contained within these lost Terran Alliance Worlds.

Would they be completely picked over (by the Houses of old and ComStar) in the intervening years or could there still be items of interest?

Also considering how contested the area of space around Terra has become why were these worlds never converted into hidden bases – as some should have still been livable – not all can be considered totally lost!

So why not go exploring through the lost systems of the former Terran Alliance?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
ghostrider
12/03/19 01:29 AM
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Think about this statement – 600 Colonies – 600 systems within area of only 80 Light years.
The 600 systems isn't stated in the first part of the post.
So that there is the start of a bad foundation.
The main thought is that a colony could be on different worlds in a system or even on the same world, IE German and Italian colonies on one world, yet each considered their own.

Would they be completely picked over (by the Houses of old and ComStar) in the intervening years or could there still be items of interest?
I would think a combination of both. Something that is trash to one person, may well be the part someone else needs to fix something of theirs. An example might be the thrusters of a drop ship. Say it fits a Vengeance class dropship, but you need one to fit a Leopard. Only so much modification can be done to make it work. Especially if you found the lighter one and needed a heavier one.
Much like junkyards. Rear end accidents means rear bumpers and such are in high demand, but the passenger side door might be too abundant to even sell.

Also considering how contested the area of space around Terra has become why were these worlds never converted into hidden bases – as some should have still been livable – not all can be considered totally lost!
So why not go exploring through the lost systems of the former Terran Alliance?
I want to say most of the worlds in the old Alliance are still inhabited. A few dropped out of the lime light, as things dried up, or were wiped out, but I don't see all of them being 'forgotten' like the WOB bases. Comstar should know they were there.

I do agree that there should be large chunks of things in some systems, like parts of a ship yard. Destruction of a station does not have to mean vaporization. In fact, I would doubt that was done at all. How many war zones have partial buildings in a bombed out area? It is possible things still function in a few of them, especially if in a protected structure. If not, then what are bomb shelters good for?
Requiem
12/03/19 07:13 AM
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Go to Sarna.net Wiki and have a look, yes there are 600+ systems within an area of 80 light years.

So how come there is no concentration of worlds like this in any other area of the IS? Creating a amp for this number / not to mention all the worlds names would have been a horrendous exercise ….

Sorry but I cannot see 600 entire systems worlds being picked over completely – there must be something still there – especially when you consider what is still upon lost worlds within the Great Houses – ie. FS’s former capitol Avalon - still there when explorer groups were sent out to find the WOB lost 5 worlds!

Everyone should know the location of these worlds not only ComStar – it is just a question of digging up the records in the archives.

Good to see that partial stations could still exist – these alone could contain a wealth of information / technology and who knows what else …

For me this is an excellent game scenario that could be fitted in almost anywhere in the time line.

Employers could be Houses or large corporations or it could be just an ancient treasure map

Enemy – ComStar, WOB, rival treasure hunters etc

Who knows what you could find?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
ghostrider
12/03/19 12:13 PM
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At the completion of the Alliance Grand Survey of Inhabited Planets in 2235, the Terran Alliance stood at the very zenith of its power, controlling more than 600 inhabited colonies within 120 light years of Terra.[2][5] However, this statistic is misleading; less than 360 worlds were actually controlled by the Alliance, while illegal colonies and blockade running were common practice

This is under Terran Alliance on the wiki.
So there is a problem in the numbers, not that it really matters that much.
Naming systems might only be done for those that could be inhabited, which might give the developers a break, and say the rest need biodomes and such.

And I agree that some of the caches should have this information in them, as well as any worlds around where the cache is. I would figure a research facility that is looking into jump technology would have all known jump points in memory. Maybe as a way to find a ship they test incase it doesn't work right.
Even the finds on Galtor should have had something in it.

The stations isn't written down, but logic would say some would. Even ones that were boarded and gassed should be around. And of all those ships decommissioned.. They all just ceased to exist, even though more then a few of them would never have been touched due to money or time issues? Camelot Command should have a full listing of all systems in it, as it was a navy base. It might be well protected, but this should mean a few secret ones as well.
Speaking of secret bases, there should be some in systems for things like researching black holes or other spacial anomalties.
Requiem
12/03/19 06:53 PM
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Yes, the text (Sarna.net wiki – Terran Alliance) does include the following “At the completion of the Alliance Grand Survey of Inhabited Planets in 2235, the Terran Alliance stood at the very zenith of its power, controlling more than 600 inhabited colonies within 120 light years of Terra.[2][5] However, this statistic is misleading; less than 360 worlds were actually controlled by the Alliance”

However within the Faction Profile under controlled systems it states 600+ - this is also reiterated within Page 5 of Shattered Sphere – and rather than being 120 light years this book states it was 80 light years.

So, which source is the more factual / correct? …… Ruling required by moderator please?

Maps
I believe every House’s archives should have a complete map of the entire IS – it would just take a very good archivist to find it – maps have always been highly prized documents and during the age of the Star League commerce / tourism was/would have been of major importance to all – they (Star League Government) would have ensured anyone and everyone could purchase a map (it would have been that accessible!).

Camelot Command
The maps within this Stations computers would contain all secret military bases (once you are able to hack the security protocols) – so 1st Somerset Strikers would have given this to the Lyran Govt. – who (once hacked) would send in a recovery team. If another Houses / ComStar / WOB learn of this info. From their spy (and they are able to get a copy of the information) it will become a race to see who gets to each one first and who is able to hold onto them.

And yes, I also agree there should be civilian / university stations used for researching special anomalies.

So, this would make for a good nay great backdrop for a game!
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
ghostrider
12/03/19 08:50 PM
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Any sort of expedition, done right, would make for a great campaign, if not few missions. It doesn't even have to pan out as correct for the objectives.
Simply looking for star charts could well result in some new information being found that could help reduce the chance of a misjump by so much, or even open up more pirate points.
Even a new jumpship or fighter could come about. I would say a functioning warship, but that might be too much.

Even just another jump point to follow a trail, could lead to things like a warehouse of 20 gauss rifles before the helm core.

Then add in trying to restore the factory without attracting attention could be another scenario that comes from it. Even a few mech line or two. But most don't want anything other then being mercs, so getting a base might not be in their interests.
Add in the old political betrayal, or Comstar doesn't want the tech returning to the IS arsenals.
Even if it is nothing more then advance terraforming, or maybe regenerative equipment for restoring lost limbs could be done.

And to make an ongoing mission, finding one area that has only a small part of the map, and sends you to another that has a bit more, not having a complete map in one location. Maybe someone thought of the maps being lost or hunted down, so scattered them across the entire IS. Even finding a code to decrypt some archives that has them could be done.
The nasty thing you could do is have the map not show up WHERE it is complete. So they have to piece which part goes where.
Like one map is around New Avalon, but doesn't say that. Or you need 3 different locations to make the map full around it.
Requiem
12/05/19 09:36 PM
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The end of the Terran Alliance? Or the beginning of something more terrifying ……

Sarna.net wiki – Terran Alliance does include the following … At the completion of the Alliance Grand Survey of Inhabited Planets in 2235, the Terran Alliance stood at the very zenith of its power, controlling more than 600 inhabited colonies within 120 light years of Terra.[2][5] However, this statistic is misleading; less than 360 worlds were actually controlled by the Alliance.

However within the Faction Profile under controlled systems it states 600+ - this is also reiterated within Page 5 of Shattered Sphere – and rather than being 120 light years this book states it was 80 light years.

So was there multiple colonies upon single worlds?

Also how do multiple colonies upon a single world live – harmoniously? or trepidation? or hostility?

However, this does not dispute the fact that their remaining worlds are a mere fraction of its original complement.

How could this have occurred? Why did this occur? Why does no one know about all these former worlds?

Did it occur from the Amaris / Kerensky War through the initial succession wars? Or what if it was something else?

Let me create an alternate hypothesis ….

The worlds of the Terran Alliance are the oldest colonies – thus they would also be the most technologically advanced and containing some of the most populated worlds within the IS. The jewels of the Star League!

Thus every Great House would desire these worlds.

And what if the Great Houses of the Inner Sphere were not obeying the Star League restrictions as to the forces they were allowed. What if they maintained vast fleets and armies upon hidden systems within their realm’s vast area? Then at the end of the Amaris civil war these fleets from all the houses descended upon all these systems and in one vast battle, lasting mere months, the majority of these worlds became uninhabitable for one reason or another.

Thus these battles were the true opening salvo of the First Succession War!

Thus these systems are considered be just a mass graveyard of warships and the remnants of these worlds from all Houses and all the battles therein.

Why does no one know it? The atrocities conducted by every fleet in the name of each of the Great Houses – the population upon every world must have been incredibly vast - the loss of life must have been immeasurable!

Thus over time this must have been removed from all the history books and over time been consigned to myth and legend!

As a consequence this may have been the reason all Houses have minimized / refrained from using WMDs and Orbital bombardments.

However, what if the IS needs a new enemy in the future, a new Clans as it were, so what if some of the peoples of these worlds survived and over time they rebuilt their societies? What if rather than finding dead worlds your archaeology team becomes the new “Outbound light”, The former worlds of the Outworlds Alliance would hate all the IS and especially the SLDF when they just left – thus allowing the Great Houses to decimate their worlds. This society thus would have no love for the Great Houses or the Clans. So rather than the Republic Fortress opening its borders once more, what if what come s out are the decedents of these worlds – and they have just one goal – the destruction of the Inner Sphere?

And what if the remnants of the WOB that just disappeared were taken by these forces – so their former technology is now available to the former Alliance worlds military?

So there is now a new invasion but this time from the inside out – and their technology is even superior to that of the Clans.

Thoughts?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
ghostrider
12/05/19 10:05 PM
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Multiple colonies on a single word was done. Hence the conflicts of those ancestors in modern(their time) time.
This comes about when the first succession war breaks out, as ALL the houses invade the old Hegemony and take worlds.
The only world that I know of that wasn't taken was Terra.
If it wasn't glowing or had chemical clouds hanging over everything, I believe the state house took and fought over them.
Also, multiple colonies may have been in the same system. Not just one world. So I would think the numbers are off. In the Sol system, you could very well have Mars and possibly Venus as colonies.

Multiple colonies on a single world is a mixed thing. Just like the countries on Earth, it is up to those living there. I would assume the entire gantlet was run on different worlds. It is very possible they didn't know of each other for a few generations.

Time frame would be an issue for those that survived the war and fled to form a new 'clans' type society. Kerensky took millions with him and over 300 years finally got to the point of attacking the IS. And even with the iron wombs, they did not really have the numbers to do much.
But that isn't saying there couldn't be colonies with high numbers, stuck in an agricultural setting, just needing someone to bring in advanced tech. I know you love the idea of the Wolverines doing something. I could see setting it up with 'pirates' raiding worlds for 'slaves', which turn out to be free on the worlds they are taken to, with one exception. Not being able to return home. Large amounts of raids could get you the numbers, as long as you have the resources. Brainwashing is possible, but I would stay away from that.

The WOB story has some merit. But the time frame here would be an issue. With WOBs defeat, comstar could very well maintain a technological edge. But WOB could very well still be tapped into the HPG network. So it does have some basis.
Requiem
12/06/19 06:01 AM
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Consider the war within the 600+ systems

Apocalyptic comes to mind, these are the oldest and most populated of worlds – rather than allow a rival house to conquer the world the opposing forces incinerate it or turn it into a chemical quagmire.

And this occurred on what 550 systems (approx.)?

What if some were able to survive and over time were able to find other survivors, and over time what would be their desire?

Given the track record of the game’s developers, would having a new “Clan” army be unsurprising?

From Hidden Clans, to hidden space stations, to hidden worlds why not a hidden former Star League realm?

AS for their population – how many survived and were able to thrive over the many years between the fall and 3150?

Also how many were able to escape the war and yet found themselves in another part of the Alliance and yet despite everything were able to survive?

Even if you don’t want to go down the rabbit hole of a new “Clan” – this doesn’t remove the fact that approx. 550 systems became unlivable - and yet no one discusses this atrocity by all the Houses’ military in their quest for absolute power.

Has anyone considered what was done here? It makes all past atrocities seem insignificant to what was perpetrated here.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Requiem
01/06/20 03:12 AM
1.158.235.15

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The following was brought up in another post, I am just putting it here also due to how it relates to the above title ....

Question – where are the ship scrap-yards? As I haven’t read of any of these being in existence

Quote:
How many ships were mothballed to be scuttled or disassembled, and were forgotten in the wars?



Excellent question - The only ship I remember is the Tirpitz and the one the WoB were going to give the LC to re-establish the SL– and as no one else established this topic – none - or we are to assume the ComStar got to them all first.

Though I would like to say if the game allows for individuals to find lost SL BattleMech factories I don’t see why we can’t have Warships.

Again we are back to creating units that wander the lost / forgotten / destroyed SL worlds in the hope you can find something.

I would also like to suggest sites of large naval battles – if you want spare parts for your warships you may find something within these wrecks floating in space – also there may also be secure compartments that contain other SL treasures - has anyone gone wreck hunting?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Requiem
01/30/20 08:17 PM
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Question: Whilst exploring many Naval graveyards you come across many "hulks" that still have some viable sections - if you were able to find enough sections and you were able to transfer them back to a dry-dock could you create a "Frankenstein" warship - one made up of parts from all different ships?

There could be parts from all sections of ships still out there and still viable depending on where they were hit during a battle and where the main explosion occurred.

The wiring would be nuts - the electronics would be a nightmare - creating a new keel from which all the sections would have to be mounted on would be difficult (and yet not impossible when you could use a Jump-ship keel).

Cutting up the parts so as they can fit together and then joining them together may also be difficult and yet not impossible considering your House still has the ability to manufacture Jump-ships.

But once done could you build such a ship? and could you have then built them even after the last true warship was destroyed?

Thus by using this technique could a House build a small fleet of these "warships" undetected by their enemies - thus giving them a competitive advantage over their rivals - even if it took 50 to 75 years to complete?

Plausible / non-plausible? and why
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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