Requiem
06/08/19 08:40 AM
1.158.130.13
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Canon History 30th January, 3058 – When Clan Jade Falcon engaged in a military campaign to sharpen their newly appointed replacement personnel’s Claws – Their first incursion campaign launched into the Lyran Alliance ….
Let us consider a new history then,
The Battle of Tukayyid’s start date was in May 3052 which resulted in a ComStar victory and a subsequent 15 years restriction upon the Clans military forces from advancing beyond Tukayyid on its march to become the il-Clan when they take control of earth.
However from the end of the Battle for Tukayyid in Mid. 3052 to that of the start for the Battle of Coventry in the start of 3058 let me make some assumptions – changes to the canon history to that of my Alt. History …
- With a cessation of military engagements the Lords of the Great houses realize they have only a limited time before the resumption of hostilities;
- To that end they Great Houses almost immediately covey a conclave upon Terra to reform the Star League and the a multi-national SLDF;
- To this end a new First Lord is chosen in what amounts to be a purely ceremonial position;
- ComStar’s General Focht however is elected to take the Command of the new SLDF;
- All sides begin to slowly put aside their past enmity and a spirit of cooperation begins to take place;
- All sides agree that….
- only onmi-weapons should be mass produced at this stage – Vehicles – ‘Mechs – Aerospace Fighters;
- New Naval Fleets must be mass produced – centred around a Carrier Class they will also have Pocket Destroyers, Missile Frigates, Cruses, Fast Torpedo Boats (similar to a Drop-Ship) and Submarine Class warships;
- New IS Power Armor – as well as Infantry Anti-elemental Sniper rifles (if they have not already been mass produced);
- The Introduction or ‘Fenrir’ anti Clan units within the Deep Periphery;
- The Introduction of ‘SOE’ units within Clan occupation space to establish and train anti-clan partisan activities;
- The Introduction of PsyOps teams to begin ‘helping’ non-warrior Clan personnel to decide to defect to the IS – begin working on ‘how to start a civil war among the clan’s different Caste members due to the inequities they face in Clan Society’;
- The introduction of Conscription and a total war footing with regards to the mass production of armaments (similar to America during WW2); etc. etc.
Their overall political and military aim remains as, “to take back all IS worlds for all of the IS” – ie. to kick the Clans out of the IS and establish a buffer state between the Clans and the IS thus ensuring that no further invasion of the IS could be possible.
Hidden Second Objective – find the Clans home worlds and devise an attack strategy if necessary.
Hidden Third Objective – Black Ops / PsyOps – Destabilize the Clan’s Caste system to the point a civil war commences.
So after five and a half years of mass production – mass rearmament where new IS omni –weapons systems have been implemented – new IS Commando Power Armour units have been established – new IS SLDF units have been established and trained to be the IS’s Spear Point when they launch – they have also been trained to work together with each other as one Team (FC, DC, FWL, StIvs, Canopus / Andurien, ComGuard, (Terran Hegemony and Rim Worlds if they have been added to this game);
Also during this time period the IS has been able to start mass producing some of the Clan’s Armaments / electronics – same Heat, Distance, Damage and weight) – though the ones they have been able to reverse engineer I will leave up to each individual Group to determine – this occurred due to mass defections of free-born Clan Tech’s (and others from other Caste members scientist, medical, commerce etc.) to the IS (taking schematics / computer hard drives etc. and their knowledge with them) as well as Fenris Teams who were able to acquire Clan Resupply Fleets – now retrofitted into IS omni pods etc;
So, what will happen now when the Falcons invade Coventry and find themselves facing an IS combined arms SLDF units that are almost as technologically advanced as they are?
And what would this mean for the Tukayyid Truce if the Falcons are forced to retreat from the Coventry due to the technologically advanced IS forces?
As they have seen the re-armaments production facilities being established on Coventry and quite frankly the sheer size of the IS re-armaments production being considered to begin production shortly scares them – the quantity of ‘Mechs, Vehicles, Fighters etc that will be produced on this one world alone is staggering?
Would any of the other Clans even believe their warning of the forces the IS is producing?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Edited by Requiem (06/08/19 08:11 PM)
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Requiem
06/08/19 09:23 PM
1.158.130.13
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Would the Falcons acknowledge a loss at the hands of the Inner Sphere?
To fail at Coventry – could this seen that Falcons have failed – and to be seen as a Clan that is no longer strong enough by their peers – would not this mean a trial of absorption or a annihilation by another who wished to take their place?
Would the Falcons even warn the others as to what the IS are establishing throughout the entire IS – a universe wide economy / production facility designed for one purpose to establish a military force that is capable of not only removing those Clans from the IS – but long term to fight (if necessary) all the way through the Deep Periphery and Deep Space and to Finally invade and conquer all the remaining Clans as well.
Or would the Clans break their 15 year pledge and begin not only invading – attempting to destroy the IS’s key industrial facilities to ensure their survival – to slow down the IS’s rearmament – that in a short time could very well overwhelm even their ability to wage war – as the scale of war will now be on the same level (or even greater than) that of the Amaris War and the First Succession War Combined ….
Remember this, the IS is what a hundred times larger than he Clans – if the entire IS industry was devoted to one task – that of military output – and the people were also devoted to one task – how could the Clans stand through such a war of attrition.
Their industrial might is staggering, they could stand for maybe a year or two, but after that I believe all bets would be off …
And just like the Liberty ships of WW2 – how many new Liberty Class Warships, Jump-ships and Dropships – not to mention Vehicles, ‘Mechs, Fighters, Power Armour , Infantry support Units - could the IS generate if their entire economies and industries was given over to war production? And that of defeating the Clans once and for all …..
War of attrition …. Yes this has become a real possibility …. War of annihilation …. Yes, this has also now become a reality!
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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csadn
06/10/19 03:09 AM
50.53.22.4
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Considering the group of us playing back when the Clans were first introduced *utterly* *annihilated* the Clans using no advanced tech besides Double Heat Sinks, XL Engines, and Gauss Rifles....
CF
Oregon: The "Outworlds Alliance" of the United States of America
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Wick
06/10/19 09:40 PM
45.43.104.179
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I'm not sure "only" omni-weapons works. You can't really convince all these companies to go along with it - stopping production, retooling, and producing the same product your competitors make (and potentially more cheaply) isn't always good business sense. I could see the Houses push for omnitech and make it a preference though (Certainly the DC and FedCom anyway; maybe less successful in the FWL and CC.) Realistically, it would start at the big factories in the affected nations (Defiance, GM, LAW, etc.) and filter down to the smaller factories and other nations over time, not all at once.
You'd also need to design and build new mechs, or retrofit existing mechs to easily accept omni weapons as part of a field refit kit and all that takes investment (time and money), too. I don't think the IS could simply flip a switch and start rolling out entirely omnimech technology right away. In fact, I think canon already moved them along way too fast, bringing the Raptor to market in just a matter of months in 3052, despite starting the year with no factory to design omniequipment, build it, or test it. Its too much of a technological leap for me. If you want five and half years, that works, so long as its 2 or 3 into it before this new equipment gets common enough to start replacing earlier tech. Don't fall into the trap FASA and CGL have with TROs 3055 and later, where brand new units off the line are described as suddenly more common than the things that have been built continuously for hundreds of years. The most elite regiments get the new stuff sure, but your run of the mill regiments were still using mostly level 1 base tech well into the Civil War and Jihad eras, possibly upgraded with field refit kits but few new models.
You could possibly move things along faster if you're willing to send out "pre-refit field kits", which prepare older mechs to accept the omniweapons once those omniweapons start becoming plentiful enough to replace the older tech, but otherwise have no impact on performance. One idea along this line I had many years ago was "omni-shoulder joints", allowing the entire arm to be replaced quickly, rather than weapons within the arm. Same can be applied for externally mounted torso weapons, like the SRM pack on a Warhammer or Battlemaster's shoulder, perhaps with the penalty of losing one critical space. I got the idea from miniatures, where they'd often come with a different piece for arms so you could make your miniature a variant or alternate omni config. If you run with this idea, then I could envision "sort-of-omnimechs" available to the IS much faster than true omnimechs would have been. (Frankly, it should have happened in the Star League era with obvious candidates in the Rifleman and Galahad, whose arms could have been interchangeable.)
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Requiem
06/10/19 11:32 PM
1.158.130.13
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First, can I ask you to google and read about - us military procurement process / Military acquisition – Wiki
In my opinion – when you are looking at an Omni you have the ability to redesign your ‘Mech’s weapons / Jump as per the mission specifics – In addition to that an Omni creates cost savings In spare parts / training for techs alone you will save your military billions (which can be used to buy more / establish more / R&D more etc.) – where you have single weapon design mechs you must be a trained tech in that ‘Mech and they must have their own spare parts etc.
Plus when it comes to retrofitting new weapon systems – for an Omni it is just remove pod / replace pod and update ICU. However when you compare it to a retrofit with a single weapon system Mech you are looking at a major engineering event – removing armour, removing weapon, possibly creating a new bracket – running new control wires etc then update the ICU – how long would this take in comparison to an Omni?
These alone prove the superiority of the Omni to the Single when it comes to the House Vehicle / BattleMech / Fighter / Power Armour Army.
As for corporations – if they do not want to supply their House Military Acquisition Department’s request for new Omni weapon systems they can still supply Mercenaries, House Nobility who cannot afford / or do not have access to Omni tech and security organisation for large corporations – they will still need to supply spare-parts to second line units – as it will take 50 to 75 years before each houses military has been fully converted to Omni tech, so yes I agree a major part of the army will be older models until over a very long time that have been replaced – if ever, as non-omni Mechs will be with Mercs and Academies for way into the future.
Yes, there will be always need for refit packages to update the older models – but over time I can see these dropping off as the number of Omnis increase throughout your House Troops.
For me I have my new unit established from the 6th Lyran Guards – nicknamed Occult Warfare – they start off in mid 3053 as a small all Omni Unit (no larger than one Company) – A point of the Spear as it were when coming to all future anti-clan activities – five years down the Track – Battalion sized units – 10-12 years down the Track full RCT all Omni preparing to invade (where all of the IS Clans are the objective not just the Jags.) - pluss the IS has many of these newly established units for all the Great Houses.
As for the Raptor – to me this proves that the IS has the technical know-how once they are shown a working model to develop and manufacture an Omni – the engineering know how is there –the raptor was to have been a single weapon design but when shown an omni it was not a huge leap to convert it over- thus I ask why cannot the IS mass produce Onmis with all due alacrity - ie like the Firestarter or others like the Crusader even?
So, yes, I agree some completely new models may take up to 5 years to design and produce – is this not why the Battle of Tukayyid gave the IS 15 years? What concerns me is the figures as to when and how ....
By the end of 5, 10 and 14 years what new ‘Mechs are available and what new IS units have been established – for the new SLDF anti-clan forces?
Why were there no new units established at all?
To me the lack of these numbers, the way the game progressed by attacking way too early and only attacking one clan was completely in error! – there is no way, not ever, a single enemy will be singled out in this manner – politically it can be only an all or nothing.
As for removing the Clans from the IS, this also does not in any-way undermine the game – you should end up with the battles just being relocated into the Deep Periphery with a newly established buffer state between the Clans and the IS – However the Clans can move their invasion corridor, going through FRR is not the only entry point – over the years you could have multiple new invasion corridors into the IS whilst the main battle rages on between the IS and that of Clan Space.
Doesn’t this not only sound a little more realistic but also more fun (you army now has how many areas it could be operating in? IS, Periphery, Deep Periphery, Deep Space, Clan Space Invasion) all having multiple battles at the same time. And how many new realms could be established? Your army could even form their own house without going pirate (as this is not possible in the IS) but in the new Deep Periphery / Space Wars this is a real possibility. Again this adds a new depth to the game that was never there.
Given a little thought, a little time develop, I believe this would have been a superior scenario than that of the Jihad to the Dark Age etc to 3150 as given. How many fans railed against these ages to the point they gave up the game? – how many would still be with the game if we had the ability to fight on multiple fronts with large numbers of omni mechs (tailored to our own likes and dislikes)
The out-come as we have it now seems to me to be a little disappointing – as given I will not engage in any canon battles Jihad onward, as I have an almost pathological hate for these eras - I will read them but I have yet to be impressed by anything offered – which is the main reasons that I have to make my own history .
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
06/12/19 02:10 AM
66.74.60.165
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It is already established, the clans did not share alot of the information on enemies with other clans, with the exception of the wolves. Most believed the others were weak and padded the numbers and skills.
Wick is correct about the production of materials. Ford, GM and other car makers didn't just jump on Hybrid cars or pure electric cars. They spent a few years doing research. Hell, more efficient engines when the gas crisis was going on was years in the making. Redesign of cylinder heads is what helped a lot of the emission problems. Another issue is risk. They did not know if the IS omni idea was real, or just hype. And given the fact that so many manufacturers were making different designs of the same weapon, there is no way to make omni connections to take all of them. There is just not enough room for all the brackets and such. Consider this. Just the engines in the car manufacturers should be simple enough to deal with. Until you look at them all. You would need to have dozens of brackets to fit into the slots just to deal with that. And that isn't even dealing with transmissions mounting to the block.
Each manufacturer will insist on using their own designs, as they already did, and wouldn't pay others for using their designs to work. With that, you come to the question of what ones do you go with? Who do you put out of business in order to get all weapons on the same page? The clans use designs that are standard to ALL clans. No one has their own special design for say a medium laser. The IS probably has dozens, maybe even hundreds of different designs.
They have their sellers, and wouldn't risk going bankrupt just to put out a product they have no idea about.
Now, who would pay the extra for an omni when on a limited budget? I could sell a hundred Panthers or Wolfhounds, or sell 20 Owens. I make more on the non omnis. Few, besides the big governments would. And even then, they would have to deal with all the lobbyists as well as the companies themselves resisting the cost of changing out the product.
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Requiem
06/12/19 04:18 AM
1.158.130.13
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Research is mainly done via Formula 1 and other racing teams as the R&D epicenter.
This is where the game also falls down – With the idea of only a single Solaris; There should have been multiple “Solaris game worlds” within every major House and even on some of the Periphery Realms – Why? How else could rival major corporations have their teams battle it out in the arena – with their new ‘Mech - to determine who would receive their Houses Lucrative contract to supply the military with their new “Mech” design (great way of showing off the new merchandise in an actual combat setting) – plus the fans would have loved it in every House (So rather than Ford / Holden / Chrysler flags we will have those of the major 'Mech manufacturing corps – and their pilots become superstars) – then some of the best teams to be sent to Solaris to battle for the IS champion position - prize fights as it were - where we now have Wold Champion Soccer / Rugby for how many countries etc.
This would open the Battletech Game – from majority Combat only and Solaris only to include that of extreme –Mech-Sports etc that takes place upon multiple worlds in a round robin championship match.
Any takers?
As for the Omni-design issue – there is only one sticking point – the size of an individual pod – and this is easily rectified – make it the same as that of the Clan’s so that any captured Clan pod can be very easily transferred over to the IS Omni – and this could have been set down by the military procurement department as a prerequisite design schematic.
Plus it would have been very easy to supply every major corporation with blueprints etc of captured Clan materials so that they can ensure a quick transition from single mech design to that of Omni.
As for Omni Vs Non-Omni – capabilities / price etc we have been through this before as to which is a more superior design for the military – just remember initial cost is not the be all and end all – you need to factor in cost / duration of training a tech – a couple of Omni’s Vs a large number of single mech designs, cost of repairs, ease of repairs, amount of repair material on hand (Omni Vs Single – single you need one of everything for one mech in comparison to an omni you have mass amounts for just one design – easier to repair as you will have the spare parts on hand + you can cannibalize the destroyed units), ease of implementing a retrofit package - omni out then in with the new pod etc. – sole – major repair could be out for days and even then there is still a chance you could have a new inherent quirk that wouldn’t be in the omni retrofit)
No I am a firm believer that with Omni you have a greater tactical flexibility (choose the weapons package to match the objective target – introduce jump jets if necessary) – reduced cost / time of maintenance – easier implementation of retrofit weapons packages. The single design limits the user and the unit by ensuring only a single weapon’s package / Jump Jets if available and to the availability of space parts if on hand due to the unique design of a single mech within the unit.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
06/12/19 05:15 AM
1.158.130.13
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Just went for my evening walk and an interesting idea popped into my head,
What if ... when the Star League was reformed a lower echelon officer proposed to unite all the Extreme-Mech- Sports units (within each house) to became one league .... as a first step to making a more peaceful IS - as a way of demonstrating an ability to work together.
So for some strange reason this flippant remark was accepted by the House Lords who thought this was a good idea - pressure was brought to bear on all the House Stables to accept the new IS League ... and so it was formed ....
So from then on the league was IS wide - where one of extreme sports teams ... say, the FWL Knights could be playing the Steiner Valkyries (on Tharkad) then onto the FRR Vikings or ComStar Angels (on Tukayyid) then onto play the Kurita Dragons (on Luthien) etc
And then when the Cats and the Bears join they too will be allowed a unit in the games - however parity must be maintained so that if their opponent had only IS weapons they too must use only IS weapons - as this is also a battle of skill - however if their opponent has access to Clan weapons or new IS made Clan Weapons then they will also be allowed their clan weapons.
Victory will be determined by a point system - the four highest point teams will square off - one and three for one match and two and four for the second - sudden death whoever wins enters the IS Championship Grand final.
ComStar promises to keep the cost of a copy of the match to a minimum - so that everyone within the IS can watch and cheer on their team .... Betting becomes rampant ......
With .....
Single combat
Lance Combat (Star Combat)
and even Company Combat (? - maybe)
What I am thinking / trying to express is something like the old American "Anime" Heavy Gear as an example of the type of Combat Arenas the League would be using throughout the IS - A similar style of game perhaps.
Thoughts?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Edited by Requiem (06/12/19 05:22 AM)
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ghostrider
06/12/19 03:36 PM
66.74.60.165
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There were multiple arenas around the IS. Solaris is just the supreme one everyone wants to fight in. A lot of the fighters in there, came from other worlds that had their own arenas.
Plus it would have been very easy to supply every major corporation with blueprints etc of captured Clan materials so that they can ensure a quick transition from single mech design to that of Omni.
This wouldn't work well, as it would mean retooling factories, with no guarantee people would buy it. For someone like Defiance, they could switch a line over, and see. But for the rest, they would keep with what is selling, so they can make money. Plus. How many mercs could be a Timberwolf? An Atlas is much cheaper. I want to say this is true, even with the League gear in it. Militias? Private companies?
The cost of retraining your people, hoping they can do the new work without issues is another thing.
Yes. It is all about money.
I agree Omni tech is better then normal units. I think the writers screwed up with their choices of the base models. I suspect they didn't want the omni tech to be prevalent in the game. It makes being able to guess what the enemy has quickly.
The League wide sponsorship of mech fights would have been a good idea. I doubt the clans would participate if it was still there when they invaded. It is a mockery of their trails, or would seem that way. It is very wasteful as well for them.
I would suggest Comstar be the only ones to record and broadcast the matches, and even run the betting with it.
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