Requiem
06/15/19 10:09 AM
1.158.130.13
|
Assumption(s):
Where a rear echelon Clan held world within the Clan Invasion Corridor some-time between the initial invasion and that of Tukayyid - assume garrison size is small (trinary) due to the lack of importance of the world. Plus they have it on good reliability there are no elementals.
Question:
As the Clans are open about their attacks – i.e. upon arrival they ask, “With what forces do you defend ….. and then the bidding begins …..”
When it comes to Clan security such as the arrival of a Drop-ship from their own Clan -
- Would there even be any advanced security protocols?
- Or would it all be just simple phrase video picture etc?
- If Clan Aerospace Fighters available would they even dispatch them to escort the ship in?
Tactic by IS Forces:
Trojan Horse
Assume IS unit has been able to acquire a Clan Drop-Ship – Overlord
IS forces initiate a fictitious aerospace fighter attack upon said drop-ship – making it appear the drop-ship has sustained damage and requires immediate landing.
Verbal codes unavailable Capt. Dead / Computer codes unavailable – mainframe damaged etc. – they ensure they are talking in an clan syntax – no red flags.
Plan:
Upon proximity to Clan Base – hatches are to open and …
– ‘Mechs (IS Battalion) are too hot jump the remaining distance and engage Clan Trinary Garrison;
- Jump Commandos are to egress – gain access to all their buildings taking prisoners etc. as they go. – in case of Elementals they have been issued with HE missile launcher / anti-elemental rifles.
Question:
Do you believe such a plan could succeed?
If you believe it could work once – could it work upon multiple occasions?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
|
ghostrider
06/15/19 05:13 PM
66.74.60.165
|
The only time a clan assumes their access to the battlefield is safe, it is when that is offered in the bid. Otherwise they are set for a fight. I want to say the troops bid are the only things attacked by the defender, unless there is bad blood.
Remember. If they have warships with them, it is part of the initial bid. They get removed quickly if there is no warships for the other side, but not always. Look at the bid for Rasselhauge. Removing the warship in the first bid threw the Bears off guard. The statement was something like, 'this is not done'.
The scenario is close to what the Northwind Highlanders did in their probe of the supply lines. Only they actually used the batchall wording to attack the Nova Cats, posing as the Smoked Jaguars.
But the questions here. Given their ruse is correct, it could work. The clans are gullible when they think it is another clan coming to fight. Well initially at least. If they have the right information, they would be able to use the clans own vessels to do so.
There are security protocols in place. They do challenge an unscheduled incoming ship. I want to say they did this in the Black Rose story.
Granted, their response depends on what they have to defend with. No fighters, no escort.
It just depends on if the defenders believe your story. They may well blow the ship out of the sky if they can if you screw up.
|
Requiem
06/15/19 06:45 PM
1.158.130.13
|
Good to know that deception can work on the Clans.
The correct application of accurate intelligence and picking the correct target could lead to the IS obtaining many new “Bonds- Persons”.
Even if they did discover a ruse by getting close this will provide the IS with a window of opportunity – a couple of hours to get it / defeat the garrison / collect everything and everyone they can – then retreat off world as fast as they can.
A lightning raid – snatch and grab.
However the IS will only have a limited amount of times this will work before the Clans will be required to increase security within their Garrisons. However, this also works for the IS – increase garrison –reduced front line numbers – catch 22 for the Clans given they have limited initial numbers?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Edited by Requiem (06/15/19 06:47 PM)
|
ghostrider
06/16/19 12:32 AM
66.74.60.165
|
Again. Canonverse does not include defense forces in the assault bidding. They could bring their entire population and military to the IS and not break that bid. Oh wait. The Ghost Bears did such a thing.
As long as those forces are not used for the assault, they are fine.
No where is there a mention of bidding done to garrison anyplace. Because it isn't necessary.
It does appear that most 'wins' by the IS was trickery when invading a clan held world.
And it wasn't always a snatch and grab raid. But I know this is to build up kidnapping techs and such for the basis of the alt. This issue here is weither the individual would rather die then work for the barbarian forces of the hated houses.
Even the support personnel have their zealots.
|
Requiem
06/16/19 03:03 AM
1.158.130.13
|
QUOTE: No where is there a mention of bidding done to garrison anyplace. Because it isn't necessary.
Equivocating the rules does not make it correct.
Where else has a bid occurred anywhere in the Clans History where a secondary military force is allowed to sit on the sidelines like this?
More importantly if garrison forces are allowed from the start then why were they not there at the beginning of the Invasion?
If they were allowed, would not every Invading Clan have a garrison force with them, so that the invading force would remain at full strength, from the beginning of the invasion to the end of the invasion?
Why were Front-line units assigned to garrison duty then from the beginning of the invasion to the enforcement of Tukayyid?
If a garrison forces was allowed then why didn't any of the Clans return with them when they were forced to return home to elect the new il-Khan when the former il-khan died due to a Kamikaze attack on his warship?
Sorry, but either they should have be there from the get go or they are just equivocating the rules post Tukayyid - you cannot have it both ways.
As for Clan individuals who would rather die that work for the IS as they are Zealots - yes this is true of any society, but it does not represent the totality of society.
As it is also true that the Clans have so daemonized the IS to the point their people, once captured, will (at first) work out of fear - and remember, you also have your Vichy and Quisling individuals within any society! and they will work for the IS.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Edited by Requiem (06/16/19 03:11 AM)
|
ghostrider
06/16/19 01:22 PM
66.74.60.165
|
The trial with Nicholas being a ref and was killed for it?
Actually, I want to say all bids have units on the sidelines. The trial does allow forces in the bid before last to be added to the attacking forces, though penalties are supposed to be harsh for using them. I don't know the whole of clan history, but I would think a commander called down far more for a very important objective, then made sure they died in it to avoid the loss of honor. The higher ups would have an out, as the commander was the one to order it, not them. I would think this would have been early in the development of the clans.
More importantly if garrison forces are allowed from the start then why were they not there at the beginning of the Invasion?
If a garrison forces was allowed then why didn't any of the Clans return with them when they were forced to return home to elect the new il-Khan when the former il-khan died due to a Kamikaze attack on his warship?
Again. The thinking of the leaders as well as the way the clans work.
Switching over to garrison mode was probably done to make sure they kept the front line worlds, as well as give the warriors something to do. What else would you do with them? Send them back home? I do suspect they were ready reserves more then garrison units. And with the end of the forward advance, they would be needed to counter their neighbors plans to take their worlds.
There are normal people that would work with the IS. It mainly depends on their teachings. Clans Wolf, Diamond Shark, and after the League was reformed, the Bears and Cats. Ulric took the Wolves that couldn't accept working with the IS on his Refusal war. Which may well be why he was so adamant about destroying those with him. He did tell Vlad, he was going to get him killed.
|
Requiem
06/16/19 07:55 PM
1.158.130.13
|
Sorry but “the thinking of the leaders as well as the way the clans work” does not hold water.
If a front line unit has access to garrison / auxiliary units, no matter which army or time you look at, they will use them to garrison an area whilst the frontline “elite” units move forward.
As is it not also the way the clans work that a trial of grievance would be enacted every time - if a unit is removed from a front line unit to that of a Garrison Unit. – That said where and why were there not an extremely high number of trials being fought amongst members of the same Clan during the invasion so that they are NOT assigned to such a degrading post – not even the Khan could have ordered this to stop as it is an indelible part of their culture – as being assigned to a garrison duty, is this not just one step away from a solhama unit?
Sorry but I cannot reconcile the issue of having a garrison units and not assigning them to a post whilst the “elite” invasion units are progressing the war.
I also cannot also reconcile the idea of the Clans having a large number of second rate garrison units. The Clans are an extremely stratified society – more so within the elite military when not only your genealogy is taken into account but your method of birth is taken into account, “true and free born”.
The Clans have predominately true born elite Warriors – a very small number of free born warriors (who would be your garrison units) – then also a small number of Solhama units (also garrison units).
If you introduce the idea of garrison units this means the the number of free born / Solhama units and second rate mechs within each of the clans was incredibly exaggerated – to a very small number – whereas to ensure the adequate garrisoning of 50 up to 100 worlds would require a massive number.
Why would anyone believe that you should assign a “elite” front line unit to that of a garrison?
As for Keeping the worlds – they believe the IS is so inferior even the garrison units could defend them against anything the IS could throw against them – the only other threat was a fellow clan initiating a trial of possession – and who would ever initiate a trial of possession when that world is garrisoned by a “garrison unit”? Only front line units are worthy of such an honour of as a trial of possession.
Sorry but I cannot see how any Clan has not only the numbers but the desire to maintain a large number units that are required to ensure satisfactory garrison numbers of the invasion corridor – remember they need to plan for at least 100 plus worlds for each Clan to reach Terra and at the same time maintain a logistics route back into the Deep Periphery and the Clan Home-worlds.
And when you consider the issue that some true-born individual’s military records (codex) must be assigned to the title of garrison unit whilst others are given the honour of been entitled as part of the invasion force so that the original bid numbers remain correct and in force you begin to wonder why there are not more trials of possession to change their individual codex records – assignment - from their garrison unit to that of a front line unit.
Remember the clans whole way of life is about demonstrating their superiority not only to their enemy but also to their fellow Clan warriors –being part of garrison is disgraceful and shameful and one step removed from being Solhama – how will they ever be allowed to take a trial for their bloodname if they are part of a garrison unit? – Where as being documented as part of the invasion fleet is being documented as being part of the “elite” – and a possibility for a blood-name?
The entire Clan culture revolves around the idea of superiority for the true-born and being assigned to a garrison unit just so the original bid remains in force – so that the home Clans cannot invade also – would be a bitter pill to swallow.
If you assign elite units to a garrison duty when you have garrison units within the Clan home world how can you maintain the morale of your elite troops on the front line – they may be the next ones assigned to a garrison post and the shame that will bring through their codex record.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
|
|
|
Extra information
|
0 registered and 94 anonymous users are browsing this forum.
Moderator: Nic Jansma, Cray, Frabby, BobTheZombie
Print Topic
|
Forum Permissions
You cannot start new topics
You cannot reply to topics
HTML is enabled
UBBCode is enabled
|
Topic views: 2645
|
|
|
|
|
|
|