Spatial Anomalies

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Requiem
07/13/19 10:34 PM
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Do you believe the game should have included?

Spatial Anomalies – any attempt at a jump through the anomaly will result in the loss of the Jump-ship and any dropships attached – As such these anomalies requires the jump-ships to jump to the edge of the anomaly then they must power through a spatial corridor using normal engines to the other side of the anomaly where they can then continue re-jumping.

These special corridors are considered national secrets that should be known to the military only.

Any civilian Jump-ship requiring transfer though a corridor will have to rendezvous with a space-station – there they will obtain a military pilot who will take them through the corridor to the corresponding space-station of the other side – from whence they will be able to continue Jumping.

Within these anomalies there could also be worlds or space-stations that are used to retain “ownership” of these special anomalies by one great house or another.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
csadn
07/13/19 10:51 PM
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No, given how JumpShips work in-game; the only problem areas are one's "takeoff", and "landing", zones -- what s in-between them is irrelevant.
CF

Oregon: The "Outworlds Alliance" of the United States of America
Requiem
07/14/19 01:49 AM
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Jump equates to teleportation?

Or

Jump equates to opening a door into an alternate space / time – traveling along said path and over a brief time based upon the mass of the vehicle opens a second door at its destination and thus exits

Whilst travelling the path they are inviolate to everything outside?

But what about black-holes? – you would assume that the object captured within a space / time path should bends into them thus destroying the Jump-ship? Or do you believe they just float above the event horizon without a care in the world? Or for that matter what about suns can Jump-ships travel through them?

Sorry but I believe the ultra-safe version of the Battletech space universe needs a massive update for the future.

Realism in battle and yet not in space flight .......?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
ghostrider
07/14/19 03:49 AM
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Realism in battle and yet not in space flight .......?
Step one. Ships that move 30 light years in less then a few minutes shuts this question down before it even starts.
Second. The only real sliding down in space combat is in gravity well, but not in changing facings? The thrust required to do so doesn't really cover what is needed to change a ships vector.
As for ground, motion does not stop and start instantaneously. Jump jets would not work consistently. There is a whole slew of physical issues with combat.

As for jumpships having issues on where they jump past has never worried about a black hole being in the way. From the sounds of how they are done, it is much like a slow teleportation. If not, then simple solar storms as well as rogue planets/stars/blackholes would stop alot more jumps then are actually lost. Even the fact of a pirate point being near worlds hasn't been a game stopper. Sometimes you can jump very close to a world, as the gravity fields of several bodies in the system create a 'void' of gravity in one place. So the rules actually argue against being blocked in the middle of a jump.

As csadn stated. Only the take off and re entry points are the issues.
Even the remains of a super nova could well destroy a jumpship in 'flight'.
Requiem
07/14/19 05:02 AM
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I find it intriguing that the idea of utilizing spatial anomalies are so readily dismissed.

By inserting many hazards this can either
- help or hinder when attacking or even just as cargo run;
- assists with the idea of hidden bases etc;
- Provides a use for Armoured Space Stations;
- makes the trip memorable (especially for those in Cruise Liner Industry);

Doesn’t anyone think Space within the Battletech Universe has become bland and a little prosaic, and as such it maybe needs a little bit of life entered into it?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
ghostrider
07/14/19 12:30 PM
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It is up to those making the gamers playing it to decide what to do. As the game is already getting so much garbage about not following the realities of life, bringing in something very few have any actual knowledge on, like what happens to a 'magically' jumping ship as it gets to near a super nova, or a black hole while going from point A to point B. Star wars touched on it briefly as Han said something when fleeing Tatoine with Luke. Star Trek dealt with it a few times, but mainly as a solution to a problem, not something preventing the end results.

Armored space stations do exist. There is no reason why you couldn't require extra radiation protection being around a pulsar. Though jumping into a system like that might not be possible.
How many asteroid fields are there in a solar system, yet there isn't much done for having to move around them is made? The TC's core worlds is the only one that I really know of in the game. Yet pirates are always hiding in them. So aerotech campaign? Maybe even having to get forces into the base, while dodging asteroids and such?
How about just a mass driver, sending shrapnel into the path of an incoming ship. I doubt they can find rock shards the size of even a single ac round fired at near light speeds coming at an incoming ship. How much damage would they do?

But again. It comes down to the lack of hard facts to even try to base rules on. Each one has it's own properties. A binary or trinary star system would have gravity fluctuations in them, making jumps into and out of them hard. Yet nothing in the game adresses that. Simple rules to cover as much as possible, without having tomes of rules to cover everything thought of. I hate it as there are some things that need to be spelled out and isn't.
Requiem
07/14/19 11:40 PM
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The Sun's gravity determines the basic trajectory of an interplanetary spacecraft. But for deep space missions, a navigator also has to take into account gravitational forces from planets and moons and other forces that might affect the trajectory.

We have many good science fiction writers – books, TV shows, Anime etc. as well as physicists who contemplate and write hypothetical reports.

How hard would it be to incorporate many of these famous unknowns into the Battletech Universe? (Create rules for them)

It wouldn’t even be that hard if you used a social media site to consider all the unknowns and then factor them into the game.

Many of the great science fiction books that have considered space warfare have all included some form of spatial anomalies – I just find the universe lacking in this regard.

Consider White Swan Trans-Stellar inc. – cruise across the inner sphere – why just limit it to just planetary stopovers, how much more could this cruise be if they also stop in the middle of nowhere to view a stellar anomalies - there could even be a permanent space-station there to which visitors arrive to view this wonder of space and time.

It doesn’t have to be about the war every time!
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
ghostrider
07/15/19 03:37 AM
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As I don't know how contracts and ownership of materials work in law, I couldn't say how easy or hard it is.
Past companies had issues with this, that owned this game. The ELH being one of those issues.

Again. The players are the ones that should determine what the game progresses in. The cruise ships may well have private tours that do something like that, As with a few things, they don't tell you everything, as it then becomes a larger book at one time.
I could give several reasons on why they don't stop in the middle of nowhere, which all basically comes down to safety of the passengers. Pirates, breakdowns, even false identifications could all result in a bad situation.
But with Comstar coming out with warships, this is dramatically lessened. WOB could very well have taken up the side tours, or added it into the main business. I haven't heard of Comstar losing this venue due to WOB.
Requiem
07/15/19 07:01 AM
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With the introduction of new books looking at individual worlds why not consider a new book entitled White Swan Trans-Stellar inc. – that looks at the cruses on offer throughout the Inner Sphere and by 3145 maybe even into the deep unknown.

If a particular point in space becomes a regular stop-over and your schedule is known, how can the safety of passengers be considered to be of an extreme risk.

You communicate with ComStar every world you use as a port – to send a message to Head Office that you are on schedule – if you do not communicate within a set period of time a rescue mission can be sent to find the Jump-Ship from its last known port of call going forward.

Even as a RPG supplement I would consider the idea positive step forward.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
ghostrider
07/15/19 05:09 PM
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The main reason why I doubt any such book would come about is this is a war game. Not an empire building, or something that deals with making businesses across systems.
You have the ability to create tour ships and such. The Monarch Dropship starts off with being a 'luxury' passenger liner.
If you really wanted to be extravagant, then build a small warship that has the luxury cabins and such. No one said the warship had to be filled with nothing but combat gear. High level shuttle craft bays, that can carry passengers closer to the 'light shows' would be a good thing to have.

But the influencing of jumps by black holes and such seems like playing with fire. They do have recharge rates around nasty stars, which doesn't suggest extra protection against radiation and such.
Though it is a bit odd that a nuke hitting a ship doesn't kill the crew, or cause major poisoning that eventually kills the crew with the impacts on the ships. Even breaches don't have such risks. Or at least that is part of the game.
Requiem
07/15/19 07:17 PM
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QUOTE: The main reason why I doubt any such book would come about is this is a war game.

Then why produce books entitled – Spotlight On: or Turning Points: ?

Anime – Porco Rosso
In it they have cruise liners – if attacked by pirates each cruise liner has its own defence force of fighters.

I do not see why a cruise liner (Jump-Ship) within the B’tech universe may not have their own self defence unit attached upon their own dropship (My Citadel Class Dropship – Fortress Variant – would be a good fit) .

Black Holes
Yes, I agree that playing with fire could be interesting.

Anime – The Irresponsible Captain Tylor
In it they were engaged with an enemy fleet who was pursuing them. Over and over they jumped until they came close to a sun –being a lighter warship Tylor’s warship was able to escape. The enemy warship, however, caught by the gravity (being larger and heavier warships) ended up being dragged into the sun.

Anime – Bodacious Space Pirates
In it they use electronic warfare as one of their primary attacks.

Most military units now include electronic warfare

Using Spatial Anomalies to defeat your enemy – hack into your enemies navigational computer – and have their exit point being right on top of the black hole.

Nukes in Space
The game’s idea of what damage a nuke does and what they do in reality are two completely different issues – reality has been suspended because just one near miss detonation or a direct hit by one 5Kt Alamo is enough to kill any warship – thus making them virtually obsolete within the game if Nukes are allowed.

In a game where they want more and more reality it is telling to see that the rules for Nukes have been totally re-written so that they are little more than High Explosives.

If the game wants to make nukes in space obsolete – star trek shields are required.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
KSilvereyes
10/20/19 12:40 PM
68.36.111.218

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In order to jump, your computer has to map the system that you are jumping to. It has to know or predict where the planets and other space stuff is located at so that thier gravity wells won't interrupt your jump. The jump point is the location where the gravity of the items in the system won't interfere with the jump. Pirate (or LaGrange) points are places where gravity from one planet (or star) cancels out the gravity from another gravity well. (Look up the LaGrange points online and you'll learn a lot).

All that being said, the Jump is instantaneous. Strategic Operations page 86-89 talks about jump points. FASA 01619 - Dropships and Jumpships talks about the longest time is charging the jump drive. Then you have to compute the destination point, charge the K-F drive and jump. it takes a few minutes to recover from the jump, then you proceed to release dropships.

For the jump to end in any anomaly would require sabotage of the Kearny-Fuchida drive computer. It could be done, but would you - as captain of a jumpship - let anyone near the computer? It would be almost impossible.

As to having Neutron stars, black holes, etc. in your game, it's your game. I've decided that I will play "battletech", but with my spin. I have Black Holes and space stations orbiting it that study it. I have several other groups that are like the Hanseanic League. Small groups minor nations spanning several star systems. I have some technology that is not included in the Battletech game, but would be logical to have been created. In the end, it's your game set in the framework of "Battletech."

Kevin
KSilvereyes
10/20/19 12:56 PM
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Quote:
QUOTE:
Anime – Porco Rosso
In it they have cruise liners – if attacked by pirates each cruise liner has its own defence force of fighters.

I do not see why a cruise liner (Jump-Ship) within the B’tech universe may not have their own self defence unit attached upon their own dropship (My Citadel Class Dropship – Fortress Variant – would be a good fit) .



I guess I come back to the idea that a cruise liner might have security inside, but would count on the system to provide jump point security. If everyone knows that you can't trust the system to provide some kind of security, then why would you have a cruise line going to that place? Having fighters on the cruise liner would make me want to plant several carriers at the jump point. Of course, being able to afford all of this would be another issue.

Quote:
Black Holes
Yes, I agree that playing with fire could be interesting.


I love Black Holes. I love the idea of flying through a system and taking a chance that you would be caught in the gravity and drawn in. However, that would end the game so I would keep my distance.

Quote:
Anime – Bodacious Space Pirates
In it they use electronic warfare as one of their primary attacks.

Most military units now include electronic warfare

Using Spatial Anomalies to defeat your enemy – hack into your enemies navigational computer – and have their exit point being right on top of the black hole.


I agree that electronic warfare should be an issue. However, the game is about big machines fighting each other. If you add the RPG, then it might become an issue. However, it comes back to game balance. If anyone smart enough could hack into a computer or use an EMP to destroy the electronics, then why not do it all the time. The Clans.... <boom> EMP activated. No more 'Mechs. Use machine guns to finish off the mechwarriors. The Clan Invasion ends.

Quote:
Nukes in Space
The game’s idea of what damage a nuke does and what they do in reality are two completely different issues – reality has been suspended because just one near miss detonation or a direct hit by one 5Kt Alamo is enough to kill any warship – thus making them virtually obsolete within the game if Nukes are allowed.

In a game where they want more and more reality it is telling to see that the rules for Nukes have been totally re-written so that they are little more than High Explosives.

If the game wants to make nukes in space obsolete – star trek shields are required.


I agree that nukes in space should not be treated as they are in the game. A nuclear bomb, no matter how powerful could be survived by a ship armored enough (depending on where it was hit). However, the EMP process would render parts of the ship offline until fixed. Imagine the jump drive on a warship not active because of an EMP. They can't escape the system, but they can move around the planets. Plus... in order for a bomb to get close enough it would have to survive being attacked by point defense or fighters. If it was destroyed far enough from the ship, it wouldn't be an issue.

Just thinking it through.
Kevin
ghostrider
10/20/19 02:03 PM
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Cruise liners. There are several reasons why people would not want weapons on the ships.
First off being cost. Weapons drive up the price of a ship that should normally not need them. New designs might be more apt to have them, but during the SL, they should have pretty safe routes, so wouldn't need them.
Second. The waste of weight and space. Not only do the weapons go against total tonnage, but you also have to figure weapons bays, ammo bins and even spare parts. Now add in the need for gunner crews and you are talking about removing potential profits doing so.
Now system cruiselines verses jumping ones have different needs as well. The ones that jump to other systems would probably have some weapons on them, as a lot of the IS jump points don't have security. It can be argued that pirates would more likely strike from a hidden ground base, then a jump point. But what about a half a day away from a jump point? Or even take the jumpship the liner is going to use and capture the liner after it docks?
Third. As stupid as it sounds, pirates are less likely to fire on a ship if they think it is unarmed. Warning shots would be, but that isn't normally to damage the ship. They come in, steal things, and normally leave the ship behind as an unarmed ship is pretty worthless to them, especially since I doubt too many of them know how to fly a ship. Then jumpship space as well as other things. Using it as a cargo ship is possible, if you don't have something else. Stripping it of the valuables, beyond passengers would be a must if left behind, and you have room.

Anime. Copyright laws have a profound effect on game developers. Examples is what is being offered, but not everyone here watches all the shows out there. Work tends to limit a lot of time, and people playing Battletech want to spend the time doing so, not watching tv. On other nights besides game nights it is possible, but unlikely. Other things call. And a few animes I have seen are boring and not to taste. Robotech was when it first came out because it was new. Not some rehash of a dozen other things with a few twists.
And I loved the Transformer cartoons when they first came out. Before the original cartoon movie came out.
ghostrider
10/20/19 02:14 PM
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Jumps. Hate to say it, but more then a few captains order overriding the nav computers. Any pirate point tends to be manual inputs. A few will have some pirate points in memory, but still take time to update due to time. Planet movement and such.
One such example were you would need to is exploring a new system. Or maybe finding one being a more exact example.
But for the general use, unless there is an issue with the comp, you stick with it.

Nukes are toned down for the game, otherwise it would be slag wasteland survival, not interstellar war. So not fun.

A game that leaves some things out of it, is designed to promote gamers freedom to do as they would like, it is difficult to get two sets together to play. House rules tend to be different with different people, and some don't mesh up. D&D taught me that. The big issue with sticking with canon on the boards without saying to in the opening of such statements, is new people might believe that is the rules. Also it goes back to meshing up with others. One major issue like this is the ever popular idea that fusion engines exploded when the game came out. I have the original rules and as pointed out to me, there is nothing in there saying the engine explodes. It just shuts down. In the novels, they love to suggest the engines explode. One had a Phoenix Hawk pilot over heat his mech to take a Kurita enemy with him when it exploded. Except for the MG ammo, it wouldn't do so.

Hacking the nav computers... It would be more likely to just steal the jumpship then cause it to jump into a star. Hacking a dropships computer would be more likely, as they are more replaceable then the jumpship. But it is a section of the game they don't really get into, other then skills and say you must hack this. The don't suggest a partial hack, where you get into the system, but not able to shut down the alarms. Best you can do is send the security personnel to a different location.
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