First attempt at a "Home" rule for a Dropship modified into Bombers

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Requiem
06/28/19 08:54 PM
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Here is my first attempt at a rule for a Dropship modified into Bombers

Spheroids Dropships are unable to be converted into a bomber only those similar to the Avenger in profile can be successfully modified.

With Regards to the Avenger Mass 1400 tons

External Hard points rule - Aerospace and conventional fighters receive external hardpoints for free equivalent to their tonnage divided by 5 (rounded down), and each hardpoint can carry one bomb. Fixed-Wing Support Vehicles must install hardpoints and receive a number equivalent to their tonnage divided by 10 (rounded down). For every five tons of external ordnance carried, reduce the unit's Safe Thrust value by 1. Each HE Bomb weighs one ton and takes up one bomb slot. They are area-effect weapons which cause 10 points of damage in the target hex

Internal Hard points rule for a bomb bay – unfortunately the only reference I found was to the Star League era Shadow Hawk LAM

Suggested House Rule – Bomber Aerodyne Dropship Variant receives internal hardpoints for free equivalent to their tonnage divided by 50 (rounded down), and each hardpoint can carry one or more bomb(s) / missiles depending upon munitions type.

Example – Avenger - Mass 1400 tons – now has a maximum of 28 slots

Bombardier additional construction rules – Requires additional space for computer / surveillance equipment etc. - Weight 3 Tons and is to be assigned to Cockpit

However let us consider Artillery Munitions
Arrow IV Homing Missile – updated version required;
Cluster Arrow Missile / Cluster Shell / Flechette Shell– updated version required for Power Armour;
Thunder Arrow Missile / Thunder Shell – updated version required;
Inferno IV Missile / Inferno Shell – updated version required;
Both Missiles and Shells can be utilized from either High or Low Altitude – modifiers apply due to height – however if the target has been TAGed usual rules are to apply.

Missile Stats –
Heat – Both missile and Bomb – Zero – both are released from the hold and then activate externally from the Dropship;
Damage –All specially modified munitions for Bombers inflict an increased amount of normal damage depending upon the ordinance used. Suggestion …
Missiles are increased by a factor of three
Bombs are also increased by a factor of three to direct hit 60 / one hex out 30 / two hexes out 15 ;
Range is the same as Arrow IV Artillery;
Critical Slots – Missile 4 slots per missile and 1 slot per bomb;
Weight – Missile 8 tons each and 4 tons per bomb; (note this includes the bomb rack to hold it within the internal compartment

Example –Avenger – Can carry a maximum of 12 Missiles (224 tons) or 28 bombs (112 tons) or a mix there of. The upgraded Avenger has a Cargo space of 127 tons

Additional Rue – for every 25 tons of internal ordinance carried, it reduce the unit’s Thrust by 1 – and note Thrust may not be allowed to be reduced below the unit’s safe thrust;

Example – Upgraded Avenger – Maximum Thrust 11 and Safe thrust 7
Therefore (11-7) x 25 = 100 tons of additional ordinance to a maximum ordinance of 227 tons and a reduced Maximum Thrust of 7.
Note as you reduce your ordinance you can gain speed - example a complete missile payload, thus, for every 3 missiles used gain 1 Thrust back towards the Maximum Thrust.

Dropship Bays allocated to ordinance – for every 24 slots this equates to 1 Bay

Example – Upgraded Avenger – will have two bays allocated to internal ordinance
Bay 1 – 24 slots - 6 missiles or 24 bombs or mix there of
Bay 2 – 24 slots - 6 missiles or 24 bombs or mix there of
(and again depending on rules noted above)

Then there just needs to be rules established for a precision bombing - same rule for a normal to hit for the initial bomb hex – moving in the same direction as the bomber . The Second bomb is to land 1hex up from the first hex ….. etc until all assigned ordinance have been

Drift Rule – Use the Arrow IV Ranges for distance
Low Level attack – Short Range -No Drift
Medium Altitude attack – Medium Range – possibility of moving up to 3 hexes from intended hex
High Altitudel attack – Long Range – possibility of moving up to 5 hexes from intended hex.

Assigning first Target Hex – If your to hit roll is successful utilize this hex as your primary hex.
However for every 1 point removed from this assign a one hex modifier then roll 2D6 and assign one as the Left / Right D6 and the other Front / Back D6 plus a modifier for altitude plus 1 for medium and 2 for high altitude.

Example – you are conducting a bombing run at medium altitude and say your roll missed the to-hit by 2 – this puts your primary hex as 3 hexes away from your target hex (2 for the roll and one for the height) – 1st D6 roll (1-3 right 4-6 Left) – roll a 3 thus right – 2nd D6 (1-3 front 4-6 back) – roll a back – Thus your initial primary hex is 3 hexes to the right and 3 hexes behind your target hex.

Possible Drift Hex Table for each bomb dropped – If TAG / Laser Guided etc – ignore the following - however if freefall weapons for each bomb dropped use the following … 2D6 required

As each bomb is dropped it moves one hex up from the primary / initial hit hex hit - assign the following modifier to the supposed next hit hex until all bombs assigned to attack run have been utilized.

Roll ……………………………… Medium …………………….. High
1 …………………………………. No Drift ……………………. No Drift
2 …………………………………. No Drift ……………………. No Drift
3 …………………………………. No Drift ……………………. 2 Hexes Right
4 …………………………………. 1 Hex Right…………………….3 Hexes Right
5 …………………………………. 2 Hexes Right …………………….4 Hexes Right
6 …………………………………. 3 Hexes Right ……………………. 5 Hexes Right
7 …………………………………. 3 Hexes left ……………………. 5 Hexes left
8 …………………………………. 2 Hexes left ……………………. 4 Hexes left
9 …………………………………. 1 Hex left ……………………. 3 Hexes left
10 …………………………………. No Drift ……………………. 2 Hexes Left
11 …………………………………. No Drift …………………….No Drift
12 …………………………………. No Drift……………………. No Drift

Number of attacks
Bombardier announces attack pattern of ….
A maximum of two missiles per attack run
A minimum of one bomb to a maximum of all he bombs (and for game purposes a maximum of 10 bombs are released / explode per turn) – Example if all 28 slots are bombs and all 28 are dropped in one hit – 10 on the first, 10 on the second and 8 on the third
ghostrider
06/28/19 09:45 PM
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Why not pull the infantry barracks out of the Avenger in the bomber ones?
That would allow more weight and space for storage. Not a good thing if you have an ammo explosion, but that would be with a normal ship..

For game balance, I can see having external mounts slow down the ship, but internals shouldn't matter, with the possible exception of having the bay doors open.
I would suggest new equipment that sends out a cluster of bombs set up like a mech drop pod machine. Drops the bombs like mechs would. Depending on the load type. 1 large bomb, such as the 100 pointer or maybe a mix up to 100.

The carpet bomb method does seem to have history behind it. Drop a load in a straight line. But what if you used self guided bombs? FLIR ones exist today, but that doesn't exclude ones that target the shape of a building. A hanger is not going to be mistaken for an outhouse.

One small issue with your drift table. 2d6 will never produce a roll of 1.
One other thing that seems off. Normally the middle is good, and the ends are the ones that are off. Not sure if this was reversed on purpose.
Requiem
06/29/19 03:17 AM
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Technical Readout 3057: Dropships, Jumpships and Warships
Pages – 10 and 11 – Avenger Dropship is without any infantry / Power Armour – Bay 1: Cargo 1 Door for 127 tons.

I am in agreement the Internal Hard Points will not slow the ship down, however, when you begin to overload the ship with additional weight it will slow the ship down.

For simplicity I am going to stick with the original bomb bay doors approach up until at least mid Jihad era (or there about).

However by 3145 (or an even earlier date – as suggest sometime during the Jihad era) I could quite conceivably agree with you that pod bomb drops become a reality – the question is what is the tonnage of this new equipment and how does it affect the payload in both available weight and Hard Points for the ordinance available. What do you believe this change would be?

Just as WW2 had the Tall Boy bomb I agree that there could be an earthquake bomb for the Avenger

As an example – A 60 Ton Earthquake bomb - designed to penetrate any hardened / reinforced enclosures
Requires 20 hard points
Damage – Can penetrate 30 ft of hardened reinforced concrete
Damage per hex from the centre of the explosion out wards
0 to 2 hexes - 500 – as most or the explosive is directed down
3 to 5 hexes – 200 – adjacent hexes will also receive considerable damage
6 to 10 hexes – 50 – the main force of the explosive peters out
11 to 15 hexes - 20 or something similar to this

If it was established to take out a concentration of Mechs within a certain geographical area - HE with armour piercing shrapnel (something on the line of an enlarges anti power armour explosive)
Damage per hex from the centre of the explosion out wards
0 to 5 hexes - 500 – as most or the explosive is directed outward plus shrapnel
6 to 10 hexes – 200 – as adjacent hexes will also receive considerable damage
11 to 12 hexes – 50 – the main force of the explosive peters out
13 to 14 hexes - 20 or something similar to this

Can I say with self-guided bombs the to hit process remains the same however the drift compensation is included roll you just increase the number by either 1 or 2 on the new table below.

Can I ask if you would like to create an alternate table for the drift? As I would like to see something from an alternative point of view.

Or how about this?

Roll ……………………………… Medium …………………….. High
2 …………………………………. No Drift ……………………. 2 Hexes Right
3 …………………………………. 1 Hex Right………………… 3 Hexes Right
4 …………………………………. 2 Hexes Right ………………4 Hexes Right
5 …………………………………. 3 Hexes Right ………………5 Hexes Right
6 …………………………………. 3 Hexes left …………………5 Hexes left
7 …………………………………. 2 Hexes left …………………4 Hexes left
8 …………………………………. 1 Hex left ……………………3 Hexes left
9 …………………………………. No Drift ……………………. .2 Hexes Left
10 …………………………………No Drift ……………………...No Drift
11 …………………………………No Drift……………………. ..No Drift
12 …………………………………No Drift ……………………. .No Drift


Edited by Requiem (06/29/19 03:31 AM)
Requiem
06/29/19 03:51 AM
1.158.130.13

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Just remembered for static units the above rules are all well and good, however for those targets on the move can I suggest implementing the same to hit rules when two 'Mechs are moving around attempting to hit one another, as well as reduced modifier for certain terrains.

Going into water as well as a cave should also be discussed at length.

However, I also suggest that there should be a very large penalty when your altitude exceeds above short range to that of medium range and the ability to pull of a strike at high altitude should be near but impossible.

Suggestions as to penalty would be appreciated.
Requiem
06/29/19 08:38 PM
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The Bombing run upon a target in the open

In order to strike at moving target; an attack requires a dive 30 degree angle with a turn and bank indicator on centre with bombs released at an altitude of no less than….
• At a ground distance of 67 hexes and altitude of 50 hexes (actual distance to target 83 hexes) for a negative one to hit modifier;
• At a ground distance of 53 hexes and altitude of 40 hexes (actual distance to target 67 hexes) for a zero to hit modifier;
• At a ground distance of 40 hexes and altitude of 30 hexes (actual distance to target 50 hexes) for a negative one to hit modifier;
• At a ground distance of 27 hexes and altitude of 20 hexes (actual distance to target 33 hexes) for a negative two to hit modifier;
The bomber will then pull immediately at its final altitude and proceed to fly for a further 5 hexes toward the targeted hex before being allowed to gain altitude once more.

(On second thought, do you believe I should half all of these distances or put in an additional at altitude 10 and thus with a modifier of three to hit?)

Normal modifiers will apply as per ‘Mech combat – eg, wooded terrain etc

If the target is submerged in water
Bombs exploding on the water for every one depth down or one hex adjacent to the explosive decrease the damage of the explosive by 10% (cumulative – one down and one away – decrease by 20%). Pilot to roll at a negative two modifier to remain standing after explosion.

Nt: if the bomb is in fact a depth charge us this value as starting point for the depth down (set two 2 you are at 3 and 2 hexes away – 10% down and 20% away = 30% reduction in damage)

Treat all entry into caves as that of being in a bunker - gm is to assign it with an appropriate AV. / and determine if the entry has been collapsed due the explosions proximity.


Edited by Requiem (06/29/19 09:08 PM)
ghostrider
06/29/19 11:53 PM
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They changed the Avenger from the Dropships and Jumpships original book.
That had 15 troops as well as 20 tons worth of bombs it used for the fore mentioned bombing runs. Page 44-45 of book 1619.
Shouldn't surprise me they did so. They have changed a few things from the original books. Part of the continuity thing. Not even a mention of it being changed to fit the new rules, or fix some issue.
The wiki does explain the revised 3057 has changes from the first runs of 3057, but no information of the change in troops.

The drift tables aren't really an issue. It just seems like the 7-9 section seems to be without issues in most tables.
If really wanting to do something, you could do the pilot/gunnery skill of the ship, and if the hit roll misses, then drift happens.
But that might be a little more rolling then needed.


Edited by ghostrider (06/29/19 11:57 PM)
Requiem
08/25/19 05:57 AM
1.158.134.157

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This is just something I have been kicking around just an idea at this stage – House rules only and maybe only for Alt. Universe setting - When considering the Aerotech construction rules should there be new house rule where there are now three aerospace classifications:-

Start where the weight of the engine is reduced by half (an estimated amount only)
The speed of all fighters / bombers are now x4 the normal speed rules – the canon tonnage / engine rating / speed table
If a fighter however has two engines their speed is now X8 the normal speed rules - the canon tonnage / engine rating / speed table

0 – 55 tons for fighters
Takes the normal one slot on a Dropship
Construction rules as per normal
However should there be additional critical slots added?

60 – 80 tons for light bombers
Takes two fighter slots on a dropship (due to size)
Must have a minimum of two engines – X2 additional speed rule in not in effect for bomber.
Will be provided with additional critical slots over the wings and within the fuselage etc due to size.
Provided with a bomb bay – ordinance tonnage amount = say 20% of the weight of the ship and does not count when constructing the bomber – does not affect the speed

85 – 120 tons for heavy bombers
Takes three (or four?) fighter slots on a dropship (due to size)
Must have a minimum of four engines – X2 additional speed rule in not in effect for bomber.
Will be provided with additional critical slots over the wings and within the fuselage above that of a light bomber etc due to its extreme size.
Provided with an even larger bomb bay – ordinance tonnage amount = say 50% of the weight of the ship and does not count when constructing the bomber – does not affect the speed

All fighters / bombers
Air to Air missiles
Air to Surface missiles need to be constructed – also laser guided
Bombs – also Laser guided – all different tonnage and explosives HE / fire / bunker busters etc.
As these need to be considered when they will be allowed within the bomb bays.
Radar arrays / counter measures to stop SAMs etc

Counter measures for new speed – Mech / Vehicle
Consider the rifleman and how it is built with regards to the 360 degree swing capability of its guns – a new computer / sensor array needs to linked to the guns will automatically fire – no penalty when used
However if a Mech / vehicle does not have this capability then there needs to be a massive to hit penalty applied (5?)

The Return of the surface to Air Missile – upon ‘Mechs / Vehicles to shoot down high flying fighters / bombers (can be tied into the new rifleman anti-aircraft computer.


Thoughts?
ghostrider
08/25/19 02:06 PM
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The question of the weight of bombs is simply this. Above and beyond the normal weight of bombs, any extra would be pulled from any cargo space. IE if you want 20 tons more bombs, then you lose that 20 tons from cargo weight. Only overloading of the ship is the initial bombs put on, like using a fighter.

As for one or two engines, this would be hard to deal with, as some canon fighters have two, with nothing to support they are better then one. I know we are talking house rules, so canon isn't the big thing here, but I always thought the number of engines/thrusters was part of the speed for the fighter. It could also be added that multiple thrusters could increase the agility of the fighter.
The issue with increasing the speed of fighters/bombers, it changes the whole fighter profile.
Just an observation here.

With this, if you are making dedicated bombers, maybe there is a way to remove some agility for the extra weight capacity of having bombs, such as some of the maneuvering thrusters being moved over to just keeping the craft airborne. Maybe have a penalty for maneuvers, while have the weight of bombs 'reduced' for that particular unit. Or just allowing x amount more tonnage.

Start where the weight of the engine is reduced by half (an estimated amount only).
If I know right, XL engines are available to fighters.
And I thought they had the fighter cocoons already done. Want to say 150 tons in weight, so the bay is 50 tons and can carry 100 tons ships. But it has been a while.

As for coming out with the specific missile types, that would be a whole new issue. Standard, including guided, missiles are standard, so coming out with a cruise missile would throw that into the toilet. Not saying it is a bad thing, as the novels do suggest normal missiles like sidewinders still exist in the game. They used one to take out the CEO of Tancradi. Long range one as well.
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