Karagin
03/10/20 12:30 AM
70.118.172.64
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If you are going to not include items from non-canon sources then why include Apocryphal Content from things like MegMek, which has NEVER been official and would fall into the category of fan-made just as the mechs and such found in FUTURE WARS or other similar products?
You are including many variants for canon mech that are used in the Hairbrain Schemes computer game which is not canon, so parts yes but not all, and thus if it's not 100% then why include these?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Frabby
03/10/20 05:08 AM
84.185.65.146
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The short answer: It's inaccurate to say we're not including apocryphal/non-canon stuff. Basically everything to do with BattleTech warrants inclusion. (See Policy:Canon.)
This all-inclusive approach is only limited by Policy:Notability (basically, we're not interested in insignificant content nor content that is too generic/not specific to BattleTech) and the Policy:Canon stipulation that Sarna doesn'tpublish fan fiction.
The latter part - Sarna not publishing fan fiction - is probably the most important to answer your question.
We still seek to cover fan fiction and fan work if it is sufficiently notable (e.g. the LaCasse Faction List, the Xotl RAT tables, OR:3067, or MegaMek) but Sarna is never the original source for this, only providing an article about it.
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Karagin
03/10/20 10:26 AM
70.118.172.64
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Then why are many of the mechs on the Wiki listing MegaMek variants? Those are fan made not official and certainly NOT apocryphal.
If you are including them, then you are in a way defeating your own rules about not including fanfiction, regardless of how notable it is still not canon.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
03/10/20 10:28 AM
70.118.172.64
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For example, TRO3063 is very notable, yet I don't see the variants for the canon mechs listed from that fan-made TRO, so again if you are excluding that and letting MegaMek variants in seems to suggest that you hold MegaMek higher up then other fan-made products.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
03/10/20 01:45 PM
66.74.60.165
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With what Karagin is saying, it should also be well shown that essays and such are not canon, but opinions of the writers. A few are completely against the rules of Battletech, yet do not have much other then saying the writer wrote for another fan made story or company. The one that says fusion reactors produce radiation, and the engines explode is one such essay.
By not adding in other designs that were made and verified as good, it does suggest some sort of collusion with there source, while discriminating against the others.
I do understand that verifying most of it is long and tedious, so not efficient enough to allow more, but by allowing things like the experimental or non canon tech as well as non canon stories, does seem to violate the policy of being canon material only.
Fan made mechs IS fan fiction. The story lines on who or why they were made only adds to the fan fiction. So unless you are going to start a non canon wiki section, this makes it appear that someone is in league with those that are put up.
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Frabby
03/10/20 05:34 PM
80.187.100.22
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Those are valid concerns.
Can you point me to specific articles or variant entries that you feel should perhaps be removed?
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Karagin
03/11/20 08:28 AM
70.118.172.64
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https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Awesome go to the part listed Apocryphal Variants
You have this entry category :
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Category:Apocryphal_BattleMechs
which is where many of the non-canon mechs show up, some are indeed from one-time canon sources like StarDate magazine and the very brief moments Battletechnolgoy was canon, but then MekTek and then you have the Sun Spider, which is so confusing as to what it is.
The however just about every canon mech has apocryphal variants listed and that adds more confusion to things.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Frabby
03/20/20 02:28 AM
84.185.65.146
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After taking a closer look, I think I agree that the individual MekTek 'Mechs should probably be removed, and in any case can't be regarded as official in any way, hence don't meet the criteria for apocryphal. They’re Fanon.
I'll probably remove the articles and summarily cover them within the MekTek article; and the apocryphal tags are going away.
Thanks for pointing this out.
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Frabby
05/14/20 03:25 PM
80.187.102.252
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Took a bit longer than I thought, but now the fanon additions from MekTek via the MekPaks is summarily covered in one article. No more individual articles about fanon 'Mechs.
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