Requiem
06/23/20 05:50 AM
1.158.192.25
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Reference: https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Baltazar#Baltazar_III
“…. an independent system in the Periphery close to the borders of the Free Worlds League, Lyran Commonwealth and Marian Hegemony.”
Reference: https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Baltazar_III_Factory
Industrial Centre - Balthazar III Factory
Component Produced: FS9-C Firestarter; OSR-4C Ostroc and MAD-5L Marauder et al
Note: Political Affiliation
2767 – Rim Worlds Republic
2775 – Lyran Commonwealth
2822 – Independent World
3025 – Circinus Federation
3081 – Independent world
Note: 6th Lyran Guards RCT are on Althastan and 8th Lyran Reguars are on New India
Can someone please explain why this BattleMech Production Facility remained an Independent / Pirate World when two Lyran units are so close by?
Also didn’t the LAAF always require a light ‘Mech for their military?
(Plus the other two are nothing to scoff at …)
Also during the Clan Invasion didn’t the FedComs have a Firestarter Omni – an upgrade to this facility could have increased the number of Omnis ?
Is there something wrong with this?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Karagin
06/23/20 09:43 AM
70.118.172.64
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So what you are asking is why hasn't the Lyrans gone and grabbed this world for themselves? It was most likely revamped by the Word and then abandoned when it was no longer needed, along with the Lyrans have other things to worry about than a single world with a factory.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
06/23/20 12:35 PM
66.74.60.165
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Maybe not everything is all about owning it all. The plant may well be covered by several entities that get products from them. The Marauder sounds like the Marik version of it.
Politics also plays a part in not stealing everything under the sun. Don't know what deals are going on, but it is likely that if the world sells so many units to the LC and FWL, that they are not invading and actually protecting it when requested. It may also be the source of units for pirates in the area, so sacking it would cut off their supplies as well.
Now another oddity about politics. It may well be that some of the other manufacturers in the LC and FWL do not want it annexed, as it gives someone they don't like more power. The Brewers do not want some nobody that is in control of that area gaining a factory like this, so has been making sure the archon and estates don't allow it to be annexed. Same with the FWL side of it. Things like this are not unknown to happen in politics. Most of the world is like that today. Companies trying to keep out or destroy anyone that would take any of their profits away from them.
Also, it is possible that the big companies may well be financers of the world industries. It can be used as a front to sell their own products to make more money, as some in their nations would consider it treasonous to sell to a rival nations.
So there is far more to be possible then just annexing the world.
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Requiem
06/23/20 06:49 PM
1.158.192.25
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Quote:
So what you are asking is why hasn't the Lyrans gone and grabbed this world for themselves?
Yes
Quote:
It was most likely revamped by the Word and then abandoned when it was no longer needed
It was definitely re-vamped by someone considering the versions being produced
FS9-C - Coventry Version starting in 3064
OSR-4C – New Vandenburg Version (Taurian Concordat) ? – Vandenburg Mechanized ? – problem is New Vandenberg only has a shipyard so where this version was designed becomes a mystery.
MAD-5L – CC Ceres Metals Version starting in July 3067
3067 – End of the FedCom Civil War and soon thereafter Jihad era ….
However this is not the issue – how long has the facility Baltazar III Factory been in existence?
In all reality this facility could have been in existence from pre- Star League era onwards making it an incredibly valuable facility at any time during the Succession Wars.
Quote:
it is likely that if the world sells so many units to the LC and FWL, that they are not invading and actually protecting it when requested
Then why does the Pirate Kingdom of Circinus Federation own the world the facility is on from 3025 to 3081?
If it is operational from 3025 onwards then the idea of leaving it in their hands makes no sense whatsoever.
Quote:
It may also be the source of units for pirates in the area, so sacking it would cut off their supplies as well.
Yet this is good reason for a House to invade and take it …. thus restricting advanced weapons being provided to pirates.
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making sure the archon and estates don't allow it to be annexed
If this was the case then there would have been a massive garrison force on-world protecting it from all comers rather than the pitiful pirate forces that they scraped together to protect it.
Quote:
Most of the world is like that today. Companies trying to keep out or destroy anyone that would take any of their profits away from them.
If this was the case then the company in question would hire mercenaries to undertake a ‘hostile takeover’ of the world and the facility – thereby making this facility a ‘Division of ……..” and in so doing increasing the companies profits and stock price when they announce what they have done for themselves and the House they are part of.
Quote:
the big companies may well be financers of the world industries.
Considering the amount of money involved in financing a BattleMech facility that produces these three Mech types there is no way in H____ that they would leave their investment unprotected – again massive garrison force required to protect their investment.
Quote:
It can be used as a front to sell their own products to make more money.
Except that it has been documented that these Mechs are actually been built there ….
In addition who is going to go all the way out into the deep periphery and into the Circinus Federation to purchase a Mech? ….. where is your brand recognition?
Quote:
So there is far more to be possible then just annexing the world.
Is this a rhetorical statement? As soon as this facility would become known to any House they would annex it …. BattleMech Production Facilities are way to valuable for the House in question to allow anyone other than them to maintain (Own) the facility ….
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Karagin
06/23/20 10:20 PM
70.118.172.64
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Would they? One factory isn't going to shift things for anyone. Again you are missing several things, first the Lyrans have FAR more pressing concerns on their borders closer to Wolf Empire and the Falcons as well as the mess that was the Free Worlds League. So this Periphery factory is not a major need for them.
Second you are going on the idea that YOUR take on what they should be doing weighs on anything that they will do. If you want them to take it, then come up with a way for it to happen FOR your version of things.
Odds are the writers have forgotten about this world and moved on to other things they felt would be more meaning full to the folks who play the game.
Go look up the world Ferris, it's out in the middle of nowhere, changed hands lots of times, I use it for the home world of several companies I have set up for my group and our version of events. To them it's one planet and given it's remote location it's no worth visiting let alone conquering over some weapons planets and a few light mech factories.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
06/24/20 12:26 PM
66.74.60.165
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First assumption is that it was an SL facility. Not all of them were like Defiance's factories.
Possibilities run from a simple repair facility that was upgraded to production, like a few factories in the IS, to being a factory that was not destroyed, but looked like it and was fixed, as it was a periphery world, so not something the main houses were concerned with, to being a normal building that had equipment put into it, and was later upgraded when they could to far more things. Another idea that comes up is a research facility that was making their own prototypes, but the rest of the facility was trashed, and nothing else could be salvaged.
This is why understanding is lacking of the canon line. Not everything has to be owned by the houses. But the greed that it has to be is one of the reasons the entire story line doesn't make sense. In the game, there is no way a single ruler can own it all. That is part of what feudalism does. You command others that own it. Otherwise, you are a dictator, that WILL have civil wars as those that own things would fight you.
Now you forget things like no one knowing how many units are produced, as well as company personnel, including the CEO selling things to anyone that will buy. It may also have been bribes to keep the pirates from hitting it.
With this, the company says it has the security under control. It is up to them to protect it, as the houses do their own worlds. So if the company thinks a single platoon of infantry is enough, then that is what it will be. If someone else takes the factory, THEN the houses would step in, which would cause more damage as the FWL and LC would fight over it.
The reputation as a dictator comes when you grab anything you can, which in turn causes you to lose any sort of assistance as you would sooner or later turn on those helping you.
What do you know. You stumbled onto where a lot of 'pirate' attacks comes from. Other entities hitting properties belonging to other people. And what do you know, some of those they hire are REAL pirates. Hmmm... Maybe learning the full aspect of the game is in order. Might explain the misunderstandings on what is going on.
Telling your government or even hiring private security goes against the idea of making money without having it taxed. Some companies have so many fake companies to make money, they don't keep a close eye on what they actually invest in. Inquiries can be traced, so the more you make, the less it stays a secret. Investing in an investment company is also another way to not know exactly what you have a stake in. Money coming in is the motto you seem to like, well this is one thing that you would. As long as you are making your money, you really don't care what is going on, especially if you don't know what is really going on. As long as that money keeps flowing, you are not going to risk It be being involved.
And now you know where some of the nobles in the IS get their equipment from, that the main rulers don't know about. As well as Mercs. Which could be financers of the company as well. They can rotate in and out to protect it, and not be a standing garrison. But little companies outside of the main areas keeps those that are not supposed to have mechs, in equipment. And selling your product there does not mean imports or even just simple things like weapons and such not attached to those units isn't likely. I don't see where it says the ONLY sell those units. Those are MADE onsite.
The IS has NOT annexed the periphery states for their factories. So your statement of if they knew about it they would is incorrect. To be honest, the existence of any weapons manufacturers in any state would be questionable with that idea. ALL strikes would be aimed at taking or destroying them. Yet that isn't the case. But then what you think only a few worlds needs to be guarded, the idea of this becomes apparent. Strategy is not a strong point.
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Requiem
06/24/20 11:05 PM
1.158.192.25
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Fact - The Facility produces three BattleMechs – two heavies and a Light - Marauder, Ostroc and Firestarter – each of which are very important Mechs for any House Unit.
Fact – It’s proximity is close to the Lyran / Marik Border.
Fact – It is guarded by pirates.
Fact – No matter what historical stage you game revolves around no matter how dilapidated a BattleMech Manufacturing Facility is, it is still considered vital to the safety of the realm.
Even if the current administration attempted to hide the facility word will get out that new BattleMechs are being sold … thus spy agencies like LIC will get involved, and once discovered they will be taken by one side or the other.
No matter how anyone wants to spin the story any BattleMech Production Facility that can be obtained will beobtained and maintained by a Great House. So either put a couple of regiments on the world that will prevent it s capture or expect an ‘immanent’ capture objective raid by one of the Great Houses who are geographically close by!
This is the situational fact!
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Frabby
06/25/20 04:47 AM
79.212.150.140
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Perhaps House Steiner simply didn't have the same accurate sourcebooks at hand that we have. The Circinus Federation was a pretty secretive realm even before they were taken over by the Word of Blake.
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Wick
06/25/20 06:00 PM
173.247.25.195
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No indication the plant was building 'mechs before 3064. Components perhaps, but component factories are all over the place and President McIntyre was a shrewd negotiator and politician. He probably convinced the Steiners and Mariks that this world wasn't as important to attack as one the other guy's (and they concurred.)
That Firestarter is a well known WOB design, so it seems the plant is fairly secret. WOB helped the Taurians as well, so that may explain how the Ostroc made it to this plant as a second production site. The Marauder is harder to explain. Espionage perhaps.
The idea that its a secret WOB factory, opened 3064 and closed by 3081 makes most sense to me. Possibly was originally a Star League factory destroyed in the 1st or 2nd War and any raids since then didn't turn up anything of merit so the LCAF and FWLM stopped coming. This gave WOB the opportunity to refurbish it in secret in the early 3060s.
And secrecy of sale depends who you are selling to. If selling to the WOB, your secret is very safe. The FWL sold them whole divisions worth of mechs under the noses of the rest of the Inner Sphere intelligence organizations. Doing the same at smaller scale on a backwater periphery world seems easy by comparison. I've got no real problem with it being kept a secret from LIC if WOB is involved. (And keeping secrets from SAFE isn't as hard.)
I suspect that by 3081 the factory had been reverted to the same nonfunctional and effectively unrepairable state it was before WOB got there. Lyrans and whatever FWL remnant remained nearby saw no value in capturing the planet. Too far from their current borders, too deep into the periphery, and just not worth the effort. If it were still making mechs, sure.
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