ghostrider
08/02/20 10:09 PM
66.74.60.165
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Sterilizing the game by removing the hate generating weapons basically destroys the real feel to it. I don't think they should be used often, and they aren't. But they are the boogieman of the game. Send out forces to remove a nuke from the hands of a madman. The developers were grasping for something to make WOB more powerful then what it was.
I would think the LC knew more about the build up then the SL did. They may well have helped by selling units to the RWR, though the DC was only mentioned because of the kidnapping.
Hidden bases exist. There are problems with it, such as only a few know anything about them, and if they are all killed, then the base dies a slow starving death if they can't farm or hunt. Trying to keep it a secret is another thing. Honestly, how many known bases were secret bases until they were found?
The succession wars were known for destroying anything they found. So secret bases may well have died in nukes and such and were never really identified as a secret base. Not secret if it is destroyed.
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Wick
08/03/20 09:23 AM
173.247.25.195
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I don't think the relative absence of "Von" as part of a surname died out with the Amaris Civil War.
1. Von Jankmon is one of Clan Jade Falcon's most powerful bloodhouses, and the Star League-in-Exile and Clan's absolute hatred of anything related to Amaris or the Rim Worlds Republic probably would have likely forced a name change here. Maybe things are different in the Inner Sphere, but if it didn't happen with the much more focused Clans then it probably didn't in the more varied opinions of the Inner Sphere.
2. Von Strang's World is still named Von Strang's World on ComStar maps well into the 31st century. ComStar could have renamed it and didn't. The Jade Falcons probably did when they conquered it but the name they chose doesn't appear to have been provided in canon. (I strongly doubt they let it stand as Von Strang's World and renamed it back to Erin or something else.)
Lyran Commonwealth was busy building up their own army and likely didn't sell all that much to the RWR. The RWR's buildup seems to have happened internally using secret factories. Sure a lot of these factories were found and destroyed, but at least a few weren't (like the Merkava plant on Vannes that went undiscovered until 2984) and rumors that more existed must have persisted to the 31st century to help explain things like Katrina Steiner's disappearance for a few years, some of Snord's Irregulars forays into former Rim Worlds space, and Gray Noton's supposedly Star League-tech Rifleman. Even if the Lyrans detected a buildup of RWR forces, they were more focused on the Combine and FWL buildups to worry much about periphery simpletons, and to the Lyrans it undoubtedly seemed clear that Stephen Amaris displayed more loyalty to the Star League's peaceful ideals than Minoru Kurita did. If Kurita launched an invasion of Lyran space, the Lyrans may have thought the Rim Worlds army could be called upon to help them, thus any buildup was a good thing in their eyes. Maybe a bit of a stretch and in hindsight certainly the wrong idea, but its a plausible explanation.
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Requiem
08/03/20 09:45 AM
1.158.133.26
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So how much time was there between the end of the Amaris war, and the start of the 1st succession war? Not enough time to move facilities underground.
Why would anyone wait so long?
Start of Amaris Civil War …………… Early 2767 …. When Amaris informs the IS he is the new Emperor …..
Start of the First Succession War …. 2786
Ans: 19 years …… more than enough time.
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As the concept of borders was destroyed in the first war, so to was the idea that factories behind the lines, such as on capital worlds, were not safe.
Problem – there is no evidence whatsoever that the majority of the capital worlds as well as the majority of many worlds within the IS that they were ever attacked ….
The only records state that during the SL era there were over 500 space stations for their SLDF fleet etc; there were over 1,000 libraries throughout the IS etc.
Then shortly thereafter they just disappear …. No record of the attack …. Nothing !!!
This is the problem …. A complete lack of information ….
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A data burst is something that last milliseconds.
So? At the height of the SL given the technology they were privy to there is a good case for a burst communication detection system.
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Missile technology died compare to what happened in the real world.
Sorry but no – SL era missiles as stated above -“ were developed by the Star League to defend against AeroSpace Fighters and other small craft … engineers and scientists made huge strides in missile targeting and effectiveness. These missiles were very effective at destroying small craft.”
This statement proves that the SLDF had ship based missiles that were capable of defending warships against Aerospace fighters – the problem is no one informed those on the team who were writing the Naval books / rules / ships etc ….
Rules please for all ship-to- fighter defensive missiles ……. Heat seekers? – once locked on they need to taken out by rear facing weapons ? Also S.A.M. s whist we are at it …..
Rifleman do not have the range to be an effective AA battery …. What is the altitude of a conventional Bomber and that of the Rifleman’s armament ?
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The use of nukes is nerfed in the game.
Problem is they are still in there ……in the rule book waiting for the next despot to use them …. What is required is a definite reason as to why they will no longer work in the game to ensure they nerfed once and for all.
As for the warships – HE missiles that can penetrate their armour and take out a section of the warship – thus 20 to 50 of these missiles to kill a ship … they really need to take a beating to kill off the ship ?
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If you can't keep with the game rules, then stop complaining. Nukes are NOT that powerful in the game.
Firecrackers are more powerful than the nukes in the game ….
The range of the explosion, their thermal discharge …. everything is wrong with them, so why call them nukes if they are not to begin with … they are just a jumped up HE variant explosive.
So, fix the name or fix the explosive …
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The IS can out produce the clans. So the balance the developers did was give the clans advanced tech, better warriors, and deny the IS the advanced tech.
Problem is …. Advanced tech, advanced warriors can be re-engineered … so in all reality there should have been parity shortly into the war … 10–15 years tops …. After that the IS should have just walked over the Clans – they do not have the population and they do not have the reinforcements (sibko)
So in all reality, the entire Clan Invasion needs a massive re-write. As is I (IN MY OPINION) find the story to be little more than a boys own adventure book from the early 1900’s …. The plot and especially all the holes within the canon story erk me to no end …. There are just far too many problems / issues with the canon story that require work ….
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The clans did not expect an extended fight with the IS. They believed the IS would roll over and die at their commands.
And another hole in the story is identified …. Quick victory equates to a lack of logistical support as well as a lack of replacement personnel – as evidenced by the extremely small fleet each Clan arrives with ….considering the tyranny of distance between the IS and that of Clan Space Logistics and replacement personnel should have been a nightmare for the Clans …and yet this point was just ignored, just like every other problem in the Clan invasion ….thus producing a story that was totally lacking in everything …..
Re write please ….
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How well would the clans have done against the FC/DC without comstar feeding them intel?
Sorry but this is not a simple answer …. As the only way that it can be answered (IN MY OPINION) is by completely throwing out the Canon story and going with something that verges on reality …
The answer comes down to how well the FC / DC can organize a force to engage them, correctly, and not the cannon dribble … the FC and the DC must have access to ALL of their forces as per the 20 year update …
A WW2 – Italian Campaign - The German prepared defensive lines – Barbara, Gustav, Bernhardt, Caesar and Rome Switch …. Where is Field Marshal Albert Kesselring?, and then the amount of forces that they can put in front on them … then how many problems they can cause in the rear .. partisans assassinations ieds etc and hunter groups to find and capture / destroy any Clan Logistics fleet at the same time …. Then there is the issue of their Warships …. Either take them asap one way or another or face massive problems …..
Then on top of that the IS must be allowed to clan tech taken off the battlefield / R&D refit packages as well as clan troops taken as POW.
Then on top of all this the IS must be allowed to add in all conventional vehicles from tanks to fighters and bombers to VTOLs … as somehow they appear to be missing for most of the Canon version ….
Finally, the IS infantry must be provided with a sniper rifle powerful enough to kill an elemental – one shot one kill …. In all reality this should have been the first anti clan weapon produced by the IS …. Armour penetrating sabot round …
Finally the ‘cheating’ has to stop … the clans must have issues with regards to their logistics and their replacement personnel (sibko) … due to attrition warfare and frankly not setting up a logistics system from word one …..
Then and only then could an accurate determination be made …. My bet the Clans will be kicked hard … duelling tactics have no place in a war of attrition …
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With this, I believe they would have turned to the warships to remove stubborn areas
If they did … they have now violated their own warrior code of how to fight …. So the rules of Nicholas Kerensky no longer apply ….
If they did how are the IS is going to retaliate …. back to nukes as this is the only weapon the IS have on hand to take out a warship! That and crashing a drop-ship full of HE explosives into the warship just like the fire-ships of old!
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the Steiner line came from a Norway.
“Katherine Steiner was a German-Scandinavian descendant”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von
Von – with Nordic countries included ….
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Honestly the omni concept should have been done in the SL time.
Considering that the BattleMech designs are become harder and harder to maintain – I agree – BattleMechs should have become Omni within the IS far earlier ….
In my opinion even within the SL era the idea of an Omni mech should have been considered as a means to reduce the cost of the SLDF ….. considering its size the cost of maintaining this military force must have been astronomical ….. it is no wonder they wanted to tax the periphery states considering their need for money !
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In the world today, the only underground facilities that make military weapons tends to be black ops, or secret weapon systems.
And again this is the problem …. When you have 1,000 hidden worlds for every 1 world known the idea of maintaining your military industrial corporations in the open, especially Jumpship / Warship manufacturing, is completely ludicrous ….the only way forward is by maintain your industries in secret less they are captured or destroyed.
It just does not make sense ….
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I would think the LC knew more about the build up then the SL did.
The DC was the realm that really hated the SL. If anyone was going to sell to the RWR it would be them.
That is why in my version of history I have aligned the DC and the RWR to take down the SL (and that also includes the Outworlds Alliance, the Tortuga Pirates, The Taurian Concordat and the Magistracy of Canopus – thus ending up with two super powers and two independents FWL and CC.) Thus 11 powers all fighting it out …. Based upon their view of what is best …. Plus getting rid of Aleksandr Kerensky and Stefan Amaris is definitely a positive ….
The DC has many reasons to hate the SL post reunification war ….
Council Edict of 2650 …. The DC had to actually decrease their standing army …. Which led to Ronin
And this then led to the First Hidden War …. And Executive Oder 34 … where by the First Lord offered the best DC Ronin commissions in the SLDF ….. thus removing them from the DCMS
Then there is the 2nd Hidden War …. The war of Davion succession … the war raged on the SLDF did nothing … then after First Lord had his SLDF commanding general executed he sent the troops in to separate the two fighting units - and declared for the Davions…. And in so doing humiliated the Kuritans and the Coordinator …..
First Lord Jonathan Cameron - believed in apocalyptic visions for Terra – he then appointed Rebecca Fetladral as the next SLDF Commanding general and he also appointed Kerensky as Commanding General – and the only way both would get the top job is if they too believed in his apocalyptic vision
So the idea that Kerensy is such a great general is in reality a sham – he is political appointee who’s highest position in the filed is either as a company or a battalion commander – as there is no way the time line could support anything higher than this – so he never commanded a Regiment or an Corp or even an Army group, he never sat of the Chiefs of staff …. It is a wonder the other officers who were passed over even tolerated him!
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Hidden bases exist. There are problems with it, such as only a few know anything about them, and if they are all killed, then the base dies a slow starving death…
I see no one put in place a succession strategy? And in addition no one has been allowed access to secret records of the previous director …. And that would mean no one actually wrote anything down … and no one knows about the logistics schedule put in place to maintain the facility …. How about replacement personnel?
Oh please, this has too many holes in it ….
The amount of people that know about secret bases is quite large – that is why you have security vetting as well as ongoing lie detector scans – investigations into personal lives / bank accounts etc by agents
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The succession wars were known for destroying anything they found. So secret bases may well have died in nukes and such and were never really identified as a secret base
Only problem with this is that the secret bases location was not so secret to begin with and they were able to penetrate the security navy / army at the base to destroy it ….. sounds a little implausible unless there is some sort of cover story that allows the enemy to know the location of the hidden base to begin with.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
08/03/20 12:41 PM
66.74.60.165
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Again, you fail to understand the power of not spending so much on factories so the executive board can pocket even more money. The only person that has to worry about damages is the owner. And even they chose the cheap way out most of the time.
Might need to reread the history of the capitals. All of them were attacked at one time or another during the first 3 succession wars. They were not nuked, but had raids hit them all. Otherwise, there would be orbital defenses still around them, which there isn't.
At the very least, space habitats and factories were destroyed around them as well.
Might need to read up on triangulation of coms signals. You need to have time to look for it from multiple angles. A simple electronic burst is very difficult to locate, and if done right, would never be at the same time for more then a few times a year, if that. And this isn't even getting into laser coms. As the only way to intercept that is to be in the beams.
If the SL had this tech, there would be NO way anyone could operate any coms without the SL knowing where it is at. They didn't. Even the Bugeyes could not find a single burst signal. Again. This is used to transmit orders, not chat about the family Christmas vacation. A good example is when Carlyle was sending orders from the jump point to his ground forces during the operations.
You do realize streak missiles are able to destroy fighters? The Barracuda (i believe) was made for that. Yet the entire missile systems of the league are nothing more then rockets, as the SRM/LRM set up didn't change from the SL. So guidance technology degraded from the missiles today. The missiles today look like they are more powerful then the game's are. The fact that even the simplelist of missiles on tanks today, can take down moving aircraft. That isn't the case in the game.
Dirty weapons will always exist in a war game. If you don't like it, then don't use it. But do not say it is the only viable solution. It isn't even close. For your game, that's fine. But to say it has to be removed from all games isn't.
Renaming a device because you don't like the fact that it is not the ultimate power doesn't work. Again, you are saying others can't use it because you don't like it. I came close to doing that same thing discussing with Retry about the CEWS borderline cloaking abilities. If you want to be able to shift in new players, or play in other games, keeping as close to canon is required. Otherwise, things become too complicated when something that works in one game, doesn't work in another, yet you are used to doing so.
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ghostrider
08/03/20 12:53 PM
66.74.60.165
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The entire backstory of the clans is the reason for their short sighted beliefs when invading the IS. The superior got to the point of their ego, where not even a god could stop them. So what would the little ant tribes knowns as house states could do to them? And yet the clans worried when the FC was born.
So given their history for a few hundred years, it is concievable on why they didn't come prepared for the reality of the invasion.
Don't like the story, then don't use it. Just don't tell everyone else that they are wrong for going along with it.
The fast victories the clans enjoyed came from intel they were given by comstar. Knowing what type of units, and all defenses the ROM could find, removed the ability to fall back and go guerilla, which is a very common tactic the IS used. Even knowing where in the system each unit was at, allowed them to hit them all without to many worries. I really think the clans would have bogged down in the first wave in the IS, and not gotten to wave 5. The fact comstar made sure news of a new invasion was kept quiet helped to prevent clan losses. The houses would definitely have hit the invaders with forces meant to deal with dropships. The warships were an issue, but had the house known just how many, and what type, the use of fighters equipped right, would have removed that threat. And no matter how skilled the clans are on the ground, they were not that much superior in space. And Overlord IIC held 45 omnis. One of them dies, that remove a big threat from the invasion. Those forces would have to come from the home worlds, and mean the next attack would be short by that many units.
So I do think with the logic, the clans would not have gotten that far before facing serious losses if comstar wasn't helping them.
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ghostrider
08/03/20 01:16 PM
66.74.60.165
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As stated in the Mongoose mech fluff. The concept of having standardized part was already being done. The crap that it was not done sooner is a sore point. I can understand the patent issues with parts being the same, but that should have been solved by buying from one manufacturer only for things like a marauder, or warhammer. Not buying from dozens of others, that each have their own parts. Much like buying a ford or chevy. The parts do not work in the other. Yet the concepts are the same.
So even without the pods, the idea that the ML in storage will fit in all units that have an ML without modifying them should have come about. It isn't like the 3025 time where you were lucky to find any spare, much less the model that was installed on your unit when it was new.
Again. How many secret facilities were found out? It may well have been most of the factories for war were hidden at one time. And now for an amazing concept. The GM is free to put in more secret facilities. So instead of having it etched in stone, you have leeway to put in more. It may well be that you find the facility that makes the Royal Guard Highlanders. So again, complaining that it isn't written, then complaining you have no leeway comes up. You want everything hidden in your game, then do so. Sooner or later it becomes known. The question is how hard is it to keep it running when it is found?
The concept of the LC knowing more about the build up wasn't for arms sales. The fact they were neighbors, and the LC intel did not have to send messages that far, nor have a slower turn around time to deal with things is why I said that. The SL intel had so many things to keep track of, unless they pulled from other areas, they were more then likely shorthanded everywhere.
Do you think it wise to let potential future leaders know where things are at? WIth that knowledge, your term as leader becomes far shorter then you think. The problems with secrets is the more that know, the less secure it really is. There is no real reason for the head of the SLDF to know WHERE the units are being made, just that they are being done and sent.
A pair of execs know that a new facility is being built, but no one else but the workers know about it. The pair die in a freak accident. That means the facility is now 'unknown' to the world. This is especially true if the workers are in a hazardous position and relied on the execs to send necessities.
This is but a small thing. Even industrial sabotage can keep a facility from being known. Agents lying about the status is yet another way.
Example. LOKI is sent out by the SL to discover the location of an RWR site. They get there and find the area destroyed. Well the record the information, then do some real searching. They find a bunker with items in it. Wil they actually report the real finding to the SL? Or just the LC? Or do the agents decide to give up the life of a spy and start using the facilites? And it doesn't have to be the scouting agents that decide to take the facilities. It could be someone up the ladder that gets the intel, and stops it from going further. Things like this help with losing things that shouldn't be lost.
You do realize that the succession wars was not about intel gathering so much as actually invading places? A simple blip on the radar might be the only indication that a secret base was found, and it would be destroyed. The soldiers didn't have to know anything but to destroy it.
A simple search of a system, or some moron making a run for a 'secured' base, ie secret, and showing the enemy it is there. They don't have any clue it wasn't known to their leaders before they blew it up.
And a scenario that makes me laugh a little, is for the players to take a secret enemy base, and set up shop. So when the enemy comes there to do something, you take out their teams quickly and wait for the next set.
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Requiem
08/03/20 09:57 PM
1.158.133.26
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Again, you fail to realize that if you leave a factory above ground, where it is very easily attacked from either orbit or via an aerospace fighter attack is strategically unsound ….
One jump-ship, arriving at a pirate point, with one Drop-ship with one fighter with one nuke in a Bomb-bay and the factory built on the surface is now a wasteland – security is more important than cost – and how are the shareholders going to receive dividends from a nuclear waste land?
This is a major issue in the game – fortresses – underground complexes – hidden complexes – even underground cities should have been included into the game.
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All of them were attacked at one time or another during the first 3 succession wars.
Which book and page no.
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Might need to read up on triangulation of coms signals. You need to have time to look for it from multiple angles.
From the point of view of 20 years ago ….not so much now and then 750 years into the future at the height of the SL technological era?
Bug-eye – “advanced equipment such as a large naval communications scanner suite, as well as a lookdown radar and hyperspectral scanner for observing locations on the ground.”
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…. there would be NO way anyone could operate any coms without the SL knowing where it is at ….
That is the point of a spy craft ….
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You do realize streak missiles are able to destroy fighters?
Range ….
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keeping as close to canon is required.
Keeping to a story line just means reading to new players the story
Changes to rules just means explaining the new rules and going through an example so that it is understood.
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Don't like the story, then don't use it.
No …. Modify it so that it finally makes a degree of sense in an Alt universe …. then run it … or create an alternate solution to bringing in new equipment
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So I do think with the logic, the clans would not have gotten that far before facing serious losses if comstar wasn't helping them.
Where in reality … there is enough hard proof to bury ComStar …. They betrayed the IS and as such FC and DC shold have privatized their stations and kicked them out …. Given the amount of secret wars the Houses have had with comstar throughout the ages it is a wonder they didn’t have a contingency for just this occasion ….
They are not untouchable ….
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The GM is free to put in more secret facilities.
Only the bad GMs
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The SL intel had so many things to keep track of, unless they pulled from other areas, they were more then likely shorthanded everywhere.
Again have a look at the size of the 20 armies and fleets – they were never short-handed.
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There is no real reason for the head of the SLDF to know WHERE the units are being made, just that they are being done and sent.
A leader like this will have a very short life expectancy …..
They know exactly what is going on and who is in charge ….
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
08/04/20 03:37 AM
66.74.60.165
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Now what happened to the ban on nukes? Oh yeah. It fits when you want them to, then need to be followed when they don't. The use of nuke as a main weapon was not seen in hundreds of years. There were some used, but not like the Amaris and succession wars had. And with the succession wars, people kept thinking the war would be over soon. It wasn't, but that didn't stop the factories from remaining on the surface. And being underground did not stop the factories from being neutralized. Might not be destroyed, but when the world glows in the dark, the factory is useless.
Again. Start reading what is printed, and not what you want it to say. Read the house books and you will find all the capitals have had strikes in their system. Book and page number. If you haven't read them, then your entire complaint is invalid as you do not actually know what is written.
And yet, they could not find the secret facilities around the entire space. Their automated satilites guarding the TH failed one to many times. Which lead to the creation of the Bugeyes. But even with the advanced tech, you still need time to find out where the signal is coming from. Less then half a second in a random time frame is not enough to find it quickly. Sometimes you are just lucky to even catch it went off. Something like a burst of static.
You left out the part of IF the SL had the tech. The SL did not have the spy craft that could find a single burst location. They could hack into computers that were constantly broadcasting, but not something that blips and is off line again.
Range? On ground or in space? The missiles do have some range. Yet the capital anti fighter missiles were much larger then those used in other war machines. The barracudas were pretty much standard anti air missiles of our time line. Thinking Aamrams or even something like a Phoenix missile.
Only a bad GM would put in more secret facilities? Did you really suggest that?
This runs completely counter to the idea that a GM has the ability to make changes to the game. So you are saying that if it isn't written, then a gm can't use it in their game?
So everything here is just to get an argument going, with the logic to that one.
Might really need to think before sending a response. The head of the SLDF does not need to know where the units are coming from, just that they get what is ordered and on time. The SL intel department would need to know. The SLDF would say send 20 Warhammers next week. They do not need to know if they all came from one location or dozens. As long as they get them. Military intel has more important things to do, then babysit the supply lines outside of a war.
They were busy watching the enemy and seeing if they got new toys. Then had SL intel deal with it.
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Requiem
08/04/20 09:39 AM
1.158.133.26
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Satire……
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but that didn't stop the factories from remaining on the surface …. Might not be destroyed, but when the world glows in the dark, the factory is useless.
Really ?
My factory still works and I can still get inventory off world, as long as I don’t tarry on the surface, ….plus now I have a great radiation moat ….
How‘s yours on the surface ….. a large radiated hole in the ground ….
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Read the house books and you will find all the capitals have had strikes in their system.
Still not there …..
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the creation of the Bugeyes
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Bug-Eye -
“Commissioned by the HAF to replace the aging Nightwing and Tracker vessels in 2524”
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you still need time to find out where the signal is coming from
Now … yes;
750 years from now …. Not so much;
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This runs completely counter to the idea that a GM has the ability to make changes to the game.
The good GM creates everything into the universe before the game starts – once it starts there are no, let me change that moments - for good or bad it is all set in stone …. The payers and the history all run without interference once established by the GM …
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The head of the SLDF does not need to know where the units are coming from, just that they get what is ordered and on time.
Really ?
Ever had a look at the maps for Operation Neptune, Operation Pointblank, Operation Fortitude, Operation Overlord, Operation Cobera, Operation Bluecoat …..
Have a real good look, this is the level of Operational knowledge a Commander in Chief Requires ….. total understanding of every units timing, unit TO&E, debarkation point, transport, objectives, updates as to progress , etc modifications to plans as required ….
Look at the number of ships, aircraft, units etc. required, operational numbers, everything that went into the overall campaign …. Everything had to be known and understood ….
If you don’t have someone with this level of expertise you are not going to last very long against the best that are out there …
Logistics – location -
20 Warhammers ….. which plant are they coming from …. How quickly can they manufacture 20 more … how soon can I expect delivery …. Is there a possibility to increase production if more Rosie the riveter’s are assigned ….what’s their security like – once assigned to me which units should they be assigned to as replacements …
TO&E and the All units Force Depletion Reports must be maintained and evaluated regularly … understanding who your best officers are … who gets results …. Which units need to move up and which need R&R&R
Intelligence reports
Designing new operations to move forward
Submitting the reports / evaluating / meetings etc.
A thorough understanding of everything is required to be competent general ….
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Edited by Requiem (08/04/20 09:40 AM)
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ghostrider
08/04/20 01:42 PM
66.74.60.165
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So you think you can operate a factory when the entire landscape is glowing in the dark? Maybe if nothing alive is using the facility. And even then, radiation has odd effects on things like computers and sensors. This is also not saying the radiation clinging to anything produced there. But without anything alive, it is possible. Just hope nothing breaks down.
Even with better tech, trying to find a split second burst is not going to happen any time soon, especially if there is no pattern to when it happens. Much like catching a neutrino. It can be done, but it is more luck with extremely expensive and complicated methods, but that is a physical particle. Not just a simple blip of energy.
The games history has to change as things are NEVER all figured out in advance. Errors do happen, like a colony being founded in a remote area, that didn't have an influx of settlers, yet some how rivals a well established world for population in less then a century. Or how much raw materials it has verse what it puts out, without additional resources. You can not make a jump drive without the Germanium, and if you don't import it, something has to be fixed. I simple story of a raid on the world, forgotten until someone asks how the factory was still pristine. Or there is no one on world that can work on fusion engines, yet is a major repair center for units. Even a near collision with an asteroid can change things as it wasn't thought thru properly. And to suggest you got everything done before hand is highly unlikely. Granted it could be something small, like a hill being where you were going to put the main door, and it won't fit, so rotating the entire factory is needed, but it is still a retcon.
In all the examples you describe, it is the quartermasters department that gathers all of the units into supply points. It does not say you get 20 jeeps from factory a, and 35 jeeps from factory b, and 18 from factory c. The head general just needs to know how many units are coming in along with other supplies. They do not know if factory A actually made 60 jeeps. It may or may not be, they made more for other orders from other units. Of they may be selling them to someone else. Actual intel departments need to know if any of the 60 made went to someone else, then how many and who got them. This is not the commanders priority.
If it was, then the general would have no time for anything else, especially in something the size of the SL.
I seriously doubt Patton or Rommel was worried with where the supplies came from. Just that they got where they were needed, and were in good quality.
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Requiem
08/04/20 08:40 PM
1.158.133.26
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So you think you can operate a factory when the entire landscape is glowing in the dark?
It is very possible to do so …. This is why it is built at an extreme depth and under how many meters of concrete like material designed to protect against nuclear radiation ….
How else are we going to put a permanent base on the moon in the future?
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Even with better tech, trying to find a split second burst is not going to happen any time soon,
750 years into the future is not any time soon …..
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You can not make a jump drive without the Germanium, and if you don't import it, something has to be fixed.
Alphard – 2 megatons
Considering the number of worlds within the IS for every 1 known 1000 are unknown the probability of Geranium being a rare commodity is again very low … go out and find it!
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And to suggest you got everything done before hand is highly unlikely.
And yet it can be done ….
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This is not the commanders priority.
WW2 shipping
Ships sunk – Cargo lost Vs ships made it and cargo Vs. new ships being built – rate of ships sunk to ships built – going forward or backwards – long term projections for the future if nothing is dome – then what happens if submarine bases / construction is halted …… how is this achievable?
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I seriously doubt Patton or Rommel was worried with where the supplies came from.
This statement clearly demonstrates a lack of understand as to both Rommel and Patton …..
“Gentemen, the officer who doesn’t know his communications and supply as well as his tactics is totally useless.”
Gen. George S Patton, USA
“The battle is fought and decided by the quartermasters, long before the shooting begins.”
Erwin Rommel
How do you think both were able to maintain their superior ability to operate a rapid offensive pace ….
Look at the Lorraine Capaign ….. Patton’s offensive came to a halt on August 31, 1944 …. Why? they ran out of fuel …. A logistics issue … why? Combined demands on a limited resource pool ….. Logistics issue
Then look at the Battle of the Bulge …. The Germans had a very limited time frame …. Why? Logistics
If you do not understand logistics then you cannot win a war …. http://strategicgrowthmanagement.com/military-logistic-quotes
Again winning the war against the Clans is not about a frontal battle with their forward elite units …. Winning the war against the Clans is all about obliterating their logistics fleets!!!! …
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
08/05/20 11:32 AM
66.74.60.165
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Again. The army commander is not going to be that concerned where the stuff comes from, just that it is going to be there.
The only time they will care is when quality is an issue.
So ordering up a pair of carriers, it is NOT at all likely they will be built at the same facility. As you need both, the work crews tend to only have so many in the ship yards that have the skill to do certain things on certain ships. So two different shipyards would be used. As long as the ships will be delivered on time, it doesn't matter WHERE they are built. Same with fuel. Does it matter if it came from Texas or Alaska?
It all tends to hit the quartermasters, and stored together. It is then sent into the field with no regard to where the item originally came from.
So go past the end point and look to where it all starts.
This is why a general is not going to bother much on WHERE the item is made. The quartermaster would be. And even then, they put in the orders, and as long as the company produces what was ordered, they really aren't going to care much unless something is wrong.
As a note in history, I have yet to hear of ANY general promoted because they knew where all the equipment originated from. All the quotes in the world do not do anything but let someone know someone said something. Some are filled with good information, while others are just hot air. Only a few get credit for the information, yet it was known and spoken before them.
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Requiem
08/05/20 07:19 PM
1.158.133.26
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Again. The army commander is not going to be that concerned where the stuff comes from, just that it is going to be there.
Again without having a comprehensive understanding as to Logistics your Army Commander is little better than a social / political appointee General!
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so ordering up a pair of carriers, it is NOT at all likely they will be built at the same facility.
Actually, If the two carriers are of the same class then yes they will be built at the same facility. The shipyards within the Star League era are just that vast ….
How else do you get over 5,800 SLDF Navy and close to 400 for Amaris (at the start of the war)?
Also how did the SLDF manufacture over 500 Space stations?
And then look at the Houses fleet sizes shortly thereafter ….
You cannot mix up 3050 shipyards with that of the Star League era
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It all tends to hit the quartermasters, and stored together. It is then sent into the field with no regard to where the item originally came from.
Tell that to the WW2 German Tank Crews.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_G%C3%B6ring
Goering 1936 –
“… was entrusted with the task of mobilizing all sectors of the economy for war ….”
It would have been great if Goering had standardized all parts … so that all parts from all plants could be placed on the same tank. Rather than having the requirement of requesting parts from a certain company at they need to be fixed to their version of the panzer tank … as these parts will only fix this type of the panzer tank made in by their company …
Tell that to the WW2 German Artillery Crews
Schindler’s armaments factory.
This why it is very important to know where it supplies comes from ….
Logistics are just that important ….
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
08/05/20 08:59 PM
66.74.60.165
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No. The general or head of the army does not need to know where everything was made at. Just that it is made and is where it needs to be. Some do know where parts are made, but not the entire line of items the army has.
They do need to know there is 2 million gallons of diesel fuel being shipped to the closes depot near the troops, and that it will be there on time. They don't need to know 400,000 gallons was made at Exxon, while 300,000 gallons were made at BP, and the rest came from local sources.
I was talking about carriers in the world today, but the SL ship yards can suffice. As the SL is likely to have other ships being built, it isn't likely they just happen to have a pair of bays open at the Titan yards. And if you need them now, it makes that even more unlikely. Having a huge overhead of stored parts in one location is a bit much.
Now as for the amount of ships made, this goes back to what was said. They would not be made at the same facility. If it was, there would not be any other ship yards around.
So you are telling me that the head of the army in the past did not know where each part came from? And that practice is still alive today?
It is unlikely that in the future, parts will be standardized. Patents and copyrights will see to that. Each manufacturer will have their own line of parts for their product. But again. This is something that the quartermasters department deals with, as well as the technicians that work on the stuff. The general just needs to now if he has a full 12 tanks to send out, or if he only has 10. They make up the goals for missions. Strategy is where they assign what amount of things is to be used. There is no where that they say only items made from the Chrysler factory on main street, in Chicago is used for this mission, and it can't be the ones from Detroit.
So understanding supply lines and such is not the primary thing the general needs to do. No matter how much you quote people, the fact remains that most of them did not sit in the quartermasters department going over what orders were sent and done. They have a large staff to do that, and only care that they have the stuff.
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Requiem
08/06/20 08:15 AM
1.158.133.26
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They don't need to know 400,000 gallons was made at Exxon, while 300,000 gallons were made at BP, and the rest came from local sources.
So you are not going to defend, assign defensive forces / garrisons, Exxon, BP and the other sources based upon their importance to the ongoing war – their importance is totally irrelevant ?
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I was talking about carriers in the world today
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newport_News_Shipbuilding
“is the largest industrial employer in Virginia, and sole designer, builder and refueler of United States Navy aircraft carriers and one of two providers of U.S. Navy submarines.”
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it isn't likely they just happen to have a pair of bays open at the Titan yards.
Star League Era …. They could have a hundred bays for all we know … each building a single ship, and all at the same time!
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Category:WarShip_classes
wouldn’t it be more efficient if one ship yard produces one class of ship? As noted above there are 9 classes of ships within this list – and yet there are others that could be considered – stealth submarine – Hospital – Logistics etc.
And remember every time a new class of warship is produced this will require hundreds of warships to replace the older class of vessels that have been determined to be obsolete.
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So you are telling me that the head of the army in the past did not know where each part came from? And that practice is still alive today?
What are you going to defend if in the event the enemy sends forces to destroy these facilities ?
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So understanding supply lines and such is not the primary thing the general needs to do.
A general needs to defend where it is built …. Where it is stored …. How it is transported to the units … and to which unit it will be assigned to ….
If not one saboteur / bomber could damage where it is built or stored … and open the possibility of destroying how the logistics department are shipping the item to the front line ….
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
08/06/20 11:52 AM
66.74.60.165
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The concept of guarding facilities is almost opposite of what you have said about not having troops spread out across a world. And yet, this discussion shows why it has to happen.
The military would try to guard all facilities, even ones they are not actively using. Even a simple squad of infantry should be assigned, but the companies tend to rely on private security as well. And some companies will get more protection, even if they don't provide to the military because of politics.
But again. The general has staff that deals with this. They might tell him, they need to shift some assets over to one facility or another, but in general the head of the army is not going to be knowledgeable on what comes from what factory. He deals with what the quartermasters department has for him, and send out orders to add or subtract what he might need.
Maybe you are confusing the local forces general with the head of the army. The head is not going to assign soldiers to guard each facility, but take into consideration the recommendations of the one assigned to that area to send in more forces. It is the local commander that would be knowledgeable in what is needed to defend the area.
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Requiem
08/06/20 06:33 PM
1.158.133.26
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The reality is, at the bare minimum a report would go over her/his desk as to the assigned forces.
And in those cases she /he believe the assignment is incorrect amendments will be made.
The Commanding General has ultimate authority over, and is responsible for all the personnel and operations of the military, reporting only to their Liege Lord.
They need to take every piece of information regarding their own forces, TO&E, state of readiness (including all logistics information), experience level (including training), transport capabilities, support capabilities (Navy) etc … consider defensive, offensive, and reserve requirements … make necessary assignments / changes to existing structures ….
Must take into consideration all information gleamed from their intelligence operations and make multiple necessary operational plans (at the tactical and strategic level – small force to Battalion to Regiment to Corp to army level) based upon objective requirements based upon a myriad of short / long term objectives in order to achieve strategic / tactical objectives.
And then they must have a heart as cold as possible, they must divest themselves of all emotions – just retaining a logical attributes …. However this in itself can be a problem becoming a military officer with many years of experience your thought process becomes attuned to a particular way of thinking – what they forget is that humans for the most part can be animals and act, not on rational action, but on emotion and as such the actions of a caged and beaten animal can surprise the rational mind ….when sipping from the cup of victory do not let it cloud your mind!
Thus the need for many people on her/his operational staff who can supply many different divergent points of view – not only based upon how a military mind may think, but form the point of view of a psychological / emotional point of view …. It also wouldn’t be wrong to have a naysayer – as long as when it comes time to make a decision the Commanding Officer does not hesitate, they strike with all necessary force or they shield with all necessary force as required …..
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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