Wick
10/08/20 04:03 PM
173.247.25.195
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Does anyone know if there's any canon to support different frequencies between Hover, Tracked, and Wheeled APCs? Or are they effectively even frequency (1/3 of APCs of each type) across militaries. I know each will be more frequent in certain terrain; I'm looking at overall randomness.
Best I can figure is that Hover might be rarer in the Periphery due to higher cost and difficulty in maintenance, and more common for pirates due to raw speed, but that's about it. I don't really care if its something close like a 30-35-35 split, only if its more extreme like a 20-40-40 or 50-25-25 split and if any canon source backs it up.
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Karagin
10/08/20 09:31 PM
70.118.172.64
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None that I have seen if there is it's not anything official and would vary from House to House and unit to unit.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
10/09/20 02:47 PM
66.74.60.165
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Price might be the main thing to determine how often one type is used over the others, with maintenance being another part of that.
Given the real life issue of tracks tearing up roads, it would be likely the wheeled being used more for urban areas, as the hovers can sideslip into buildings.
Track would be better in forested areas, unless they removed the light forest from being accessible to them.
Of course water and open areas would be best for hovers, especially island set ups.
But one question to this.
Do or will you, consider vehicles that carry infantry, such as the Maxim or Bulldog, being an APC or just a vehicle that carries infantry. This will add in a whole new level of issues.
Also, it would depend on what nation you are talking about, as the FS uses the RCTs, which include infantry regiments. The CC might use them a lot to cover holes in their forces, or no very much.
Honestly, I can see just straight APCs being heavy on the wheeled, with tracked being the second. Hover is more maintenance the most militias would want. Front line troops change some of this. I would guess, 50-40-10 would be likely. But that is a pure speculative guess.
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Karagin
10/09/20 06:41 PM
70.118.172.64
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Don't forget enviorment plays a large part as well...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Wick
10/11/20 09:35 PM
173.247.25.195
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I hadn't really considered militias, that would make quite a difference in hover frequency. I think something like 50-40-10 or 45-45-10 is probably accurate for most of the major militaries. Depending on planet it may differ more greatly due to terrain, but Inner Sphere military-wide I think this breakdown is close. I think SLDF and Clans would be closer to 1/3 each though and still think pirates (or other raiding parties) will prioritize hover craft.
My system does take both militia rarity and urban rarity into account. I hadn't thought of tracked being disliked in city environments so I need to knock their urban rarity down a notch, and do same for hover units in militias. I have a Raider rarity that I can use for the hovers to give them a boost for pirates and raiders.
I treat the infantry support vehicles as tanks in my model. Though if they can carry troops they get a Troop Transport rarity value so they could randomly roll as an APC in front-line formations. I originally had APCs as tanks but they overwhelm combat vehicle frequencies so much that too often a roll for a tank would get an APC - I realized I needed to break them out in my model but it leaves a bit of gray area for units like the Maxim that I'm still not sure will resolve properly.
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Requiem
03/02/21 02:46 AM
1.158.229.22
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APC - With a prolific number of variants in order to keep costs down ... thus making its availability more proliffic ... IS and Periphery ... same vehicle different insides / attachments / trailers etc ...
Standard – Armoured Personnel Carrier
Command and Control – communications vehicle – Tactical Air / Operations Command – with raised roof.
Fire Control Variant – fire control – artillery fire direction vehicle
Armoured ambulance – approx. 4 litters – smoke grenades
Front and Trailer cargo attachments:-
Front hydraulic dozerblade / Rear Hydraulic powered Crane and trailer with all tools necessary – Mobile Tactical Engineering Vehicle – effectively a mobile repair facility for all ground vehicles and ‘Mechs – or replace trailer with flatbed to create an armoured recovery vehicle
Engineering Vehicle – With demolition equipment – used by engineer companies.
Logistics Transport - Flatbed trailer
Flatbed trailer with mobile bridge for water hazard
Flatbed trailer with fully equipped commissary
Flatbed trailer with fuel
Flatbed with auxiliary power unit (APU)
Flatbed with ammunition transport
Flatbed trailer with Fire-fighting apparatus and equipment for fire-fighting operations (attached to all bases)
Additional Searchlights – mine detection equipment
Radar, Motion, Thermal, Seismic – To serve as a reconnaissance vehicle
Attachment Remote Controlled Weapon Station – Drone carrier
Weapons Variant – modified turret:-
Air-defence variant – Air Defence Anti-Tank System
Fire support / Infantry Support – MG, Motar, missile (SRM and LRM), A/C variant (with sensors for anti-air) - future surface-to-air missile. Armoured Flamethrower
Electronic Warfare Unit – BAP / ECM attached
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
03/02/21 12:41 PM
66.74.60.165
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The question of where a half track has come up, on which category to label it under. Is it wheeled or tracked?
I would also assume that the definition for APC being used for this is something that is dedicated to transport a squad, or in the clans a point, of troops or larger. Some on the list are more support then APC in this regards. This cuts out a few of the suggestions from Requiem, but does open up questions on if VTOLS should be considered in the list.
I had forgotten the VTOLs when I said the wheeled, tracked and hover.
Yeah, it opens up even more research and work for you, but this does ask just how accurate you want to get.
A further thought on aircraft, there are some that are made for just moving large amounts of infantry as well as shuttles, both in atmosphere and space.
I will be a sarcastic butt here and say some dropships are fully dedicated to moving infantry, but I do figure it is just on world for the concept of this thread.
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Wick
03/04/21 09:56 AM
173.247.25.195
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Specifically I was asking about Hover, Heavy Hover, Tracked, Heavy Tracked, Wheeled, and Heavy Wheeled APCs. The few RATs that cover APCs tend to lump these all into one line, while more specialized APCs (like the Maultier) or combat vehicles that perform both a combat and APC roles (like the Turhan) get specific rolls on the RATs.
For lack of any canon source, I ultimately made a best guess for each house based on which APCs they were building in Objective Raids as of early 3050s and for periphery took their nearest house but reduced Hover frequencies (since its the most complicated.) Pirates get more Hover though since they are speedier.
Other than those six units, I am putting units that can perform APC duties (like Maultier, Turhan, Ripper VTOL) into their respective groups (Hover, Tracked, Wheeled, VTOL, and rarely ConventionalAircraft) and they get mixed in with the rarities of other combat vehicles of those types, though they are flagged as "Can APC" so that a future lance or company builder program could allocate them to infantry companies.
I discovered one oddity since my earlier post in regards to the Turhan (which is one of those "Can APC" vehicles). Because there are so few wheeled combat vehicles in the Star League era, Turhan vastly overwhelms the Wheeled Vehicle category rarity to the order of about 90-95%. I was expecting the Hover-Tracked-Wheeled breakdown to be close to 1/3rd each for Star League era but that's utterly unsupported by the RATs because Turhan would then be something like the 6, 7, and 8 roll on a traditional RAT. So it revealed that the breakdown during Star League era is actually closer to 65% Tracked, 10% Wheeled, and 25% Hover. I assume they move closer to equalization over the course of succession wars and later eras but I'm not to that point yet. (I'm up to the published 2765 RATs for IS, but have already cleared the 2777 and 2786 RATS for SLDF so I can adjust to the Pentagon Powers and Clans 2821 RATs from Operation Klondike, which would enable me to close out the SLDF legacy so I can focus entirely on IS factions though the Succession War eras.)
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