arvigna
11/16/20 08:26 AM
86.206.22.47
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Hello,
I'm new in this universe, my question would be, when a Mech is modified, is it possible that it exceeds its original maximum tonnage?
thank you
Arvi.
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Karagin
11/16/20 10:26 AM
70.118.172.64
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It can if you are building it from the ground up as a new mech. If you want to keep say a Thunderbolt and swap around weapons then no it has to remain at it's 65 ton weight limit. Howerver, if you want a mech that is a 70 ton machine that has similar weapons as the Thunderblot but more armor, then you would need to be build a whole new mech at the 70 ton weight class.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Frabby
11/16/20 10:50 AM
91.39.172.43
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The basic answer to the question is no.
You cannot modify a 'Mech to exceed its tonnage.
By the game's construction rules, the very first thing you determine about a 'Mech is the (max) tonnage; this in turn then determines the weight (mass) of the internal structure and through that, how much armor each section of a 'Mech can carry, as well as the increments required for the fusion engine. And how much damage you're doing in physical attacks, or incur when falling.
There is a canonical example in the other direction, where a variant of the Stalker was built and statted as a downgraded 75 ton 'Mech (instead of the Stalker's original 85 tons). Later rules allowed for 'Mechs to be built underweight, i.e. you could equip a 85-ton Stalker frame with just 75 tons of equipment. It would retain an 85-tonner's internal structure, engine, and "mass" for purpose of gameplay, just lack 10 tons of equipment.
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arvigna
11/16/20 11:07 AM
86.206.22.47
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Thank you very much for such quick answers.
so if I understand correctly, this is not possible, so if I decide to make a new variant of a model the tonnage must remain the same in its original maximum.
I read the wiki a lot and I see the special models or some variants, that's why I ask myself the question, because often, if I want to build a variant, I easily exceed the tonnage.
Sorry for my English, I am not a english native speaker.
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Karagin
11/16/20 12:22 PM
70.118.172.64
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A new variant yes it has to stay the same weight, UNLESS you are going for a heavier version and then you must follow the rules that mechs increase in weight by 5 tons. You can't really have a 86 ton mech in the game due to the rules.
Remember just because you have space left on the record sheet doesn't mean it has to be filled in with weapons etc...if you add stuff the mech's weight goes up to say 70 tons, HOWEVER, the engine rating will change this also increases weight if you are trying to keep the same speed your 60 ton mech has.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Frabby
11/16/20 12:31 PM
91.39.172.43
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The MWDA Clix game, at some point, did not follow the original BattleTech construction rules anymore. This led to some MWDA 'Mechs that cannot be built under normal boardgame rules. I think all of those have since been statted in a "legal" way though.
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arvigna
11/16/20 01:59 PM
86.206.22.47
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ok, Thank you very much !
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Wick
11/17/20 02:32 PM
173.247.25.195
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One clarification needed is that there are three types of variants: field refits, facility refits, and new builds.
- Field refits would expressly be forbidden from increasing weight as being beyond capabilities to perform in the field.
- Facility refits could increase weight; however, this is difficult as it would require replacing most internal components and only suitable for facilities equipped to perform this work, often the original factory.
- New build variants can effectively do what they want as they are new units coming out of a factory. They rarely change tonnage though, described in-universe as a way to ensure spare parts from old and new continue to work for either. When they do get a new weight, they are generally no longer considered a variant, and often given a new name to compensate (for example, the 35 ton Venom that is based on the 30 ton Spider, with both sharing the SDR-xx model numbers) or in later eras given a II or III suffix.
As examples, some very early models of common mechs changed weights. For example the Griffin started as a 60 ton mech but a was refined into a 55 ton unit and follows the new build plan. The Rifleman began as a 50 ton mech and ended as a 60 tonner, and also treated as new build. The Shadow Hawk started at 50 as well and advanced to 55, primarily through new builds but also through some (presumably expensive) factory-based refits.
So weight can be increased, but it is considered vastly expensive, requires proper facilities, and must follow the rules of the new weight (meaning a larger engine, gyro, internal structure weight, etc.) If you want a 100 ton Rifleman you can certainly do it, if you follow the construction rules for a 100 ton mech rather than a 60. (Gray Noton's Rifleman is generally assumed to be have gone this route.)
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