ghostrider
03/11/21 01:03 PM
66.74.60.165
|
Question how can you create a variant record sheet when even Canon uses theirs as an NPC?
How do you create anything in the game? Oh yeah. You take the weight you want, figure out what speed you want then go from there. I am guessing the creation of dropships is where you would find the engine weight, which is about the only thing that isn't easy to find in a chart.
The issue comes up that most of the time, it is implied that it is a canon made unit, until an argument goes horribly against the person that suggests it without saying anything in their opening statement. Using a canon unit and saying you would change this is very much doing that exact thing. Also, saying my second gen suggests you created the unit.
And how do you play with this if you do not have any information on things like how much cargo, or if you have room for extra equipment like shuttles? You have limited space, and suggest the fighter bays would be full, yet have to submerge. The shuttles can't stay on the deck. Launching them would get them killed.
An underwater base, a permanently positioned one, is required to supply any such vehicle. Or maybe there is something build into the unit that allows it to get around this, but without the stats, doesn't hold water. Fabrication shops and even mining equipment on top of air generators and such are needed for being less reliant on other bases.
Simply saying it is there, and not even having a map of the ship, means the next time you need something it magically appears and takes the place of something more permanent, like maybe the engines.
And the game gets a major thing wrong with carriers. The amount of people that are actually required to run one is far higher then the listed crews.
Oh yeah. A very good way to find this vessel underwater is to look for the glowing heat spot on where it's been and moving to. Communications disruptions would show that something with ECM has moved into the area between sonar buoys.
It would make an interesting base to work with, but needs full stats to even begin to figure out if it would work properly.
|
Requiem
03/11/21 04:07 PM
1.158.229.22
|
Quote:
I am guessing the creation of dropships is where you would find the engine weight, which is about the only thing that isn't easy to find in a chart.
This is like putting a rocket engine in a blue sea submersible ship – it is not compatible!
Plus on top of that there are many Home rule systems added to this ship that cannon have not even considered
Question – in real life ships have the Phalanx CIWS – close in weapons system – do I use the 13.6 tons per unit then how much for the computer system that links into the ships radar system and also enables all the guns to act as one system when necessary and how many rounds per ton …..
- How about air locks that are Mech size weight etc
- How about c-in-c system specifically designed for ships
- How about all the retractable weapon systems that enable all weapons to be retracted inside the hull prior to diving to enable the outside hull to be streamlined – harder to find with ASDIC / sonar type detection systems …..
- Is there a difference in crew weight / cabins etc than that of a drop-ship?
- Then there is a very special elevator system throughout the ship?
- Then there is the hull manufacturing / configuration - the ability to dive to a crash depth of ?? m - sound resistance – baffling in order to make it harder to detect using any current detection methods – virtually a stealth ship ---- what is the cost etc
So why should I even bother as no matter what I post it will just be criticised for being wrong by everyone?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
|
ghostrider
03/11/21 07:12 PM
66.74.60.165
|
The engine is NOT the thruster components. The engine powers space craft without having to use thrusters. As it has been a while since even attempting to use aerotech, they may have added the weight of the thrusters in with the engine. I would assume that is part of the control system, but probably wrong on this.
Now I will say the engine put into a vehicle is not what causes the vehicle to move like a rocket. The transmission changes the power of the fusion engine into movement, by powering the movement components.
As a side note, the same engine used in vehicles can be used in fighters. Ooops.
The questions on how things are weighed out is something I can't even begin to get into, as I don't have the rules for such things. I would think space craft would have the air locks and such to begin figuring it out.
Some of the answers are in the games construction rules. Standard things such as radar is within the construction costs.
As said so often in the past, posting things needs to be done with the opening statement saying it is all alt equipment.
I will have to look at the post for the ship and see if it is set for canon or is indeed a non canon design. This is part of why we had a problem in the wiki section of the boards.
After rereading the original wiki post, the ship is canon, and all the crap you added would remove a good chunk of equipment just to store the things like the mechs. The vehicle would be more then 30,000 tons in order to fit the other things.
It looks like it is a magical ship, as there are no stats for the ship from TPTB.
The best I can tell you at this point is to use the REAL CANON construction rules and stop adding in the house rule stuff until you get it set up.
And it does say the artillery and fighters can not be used while submerged.
Edited by ghostrider (03/11/21 07:20 PM)
|
Requiem
03/11/21 11:33 PM
1.158.229.22
|
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/DropShip
The fusion engine works by expelling plasma through shielded exhaust nozzles to create thrust …
The fusion plant which provides power for the DropShip is a closed system, reprocessing its own by-products and requiring little additional fuel.
Quote:
As a side note, the same engine used in vehicles can be used in fighters. Ooops.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Doneve/Combat_Vehicle_Construction_Steps
Quote:
I would think space craft would have the air locks and such to begin figuring it out.
Also the rules only go so far with tonnage – so building one 1,000 times the max level in the book will pose a problem …
Problem is – airlocks in space are designed for a very specific tack and do not require reinforcing them due to the pressure water places on them at crash depts. – thus making the comparison impossible to use.
Quote:
And it does say the artillery and fighters can not be used while submerged.
The fighters are a given that they cannot be used whilst submerged. Unless you use Skydiver One fighter from the TV series UFO as a template.
That said – changing over the weapons package from a simple cannon to that of a missile changes the rule – how many subs can fire a missile whilst underwater now? So changing it over to an Arrow IV variant specifically for naval operations with an ammo pack allowing underwater firing – there should not be a problem – it is just a matter of determining specs for it.
Also the ship all told will be around 300,000 tons approx.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
|
ghostrider
03/12/21 03:38 AM
66.74.60.165
|
Fuel is needed to be expelled out of the thrusters for moving a unit. The engine that provides this can be run with or without expelling it. But it still requires fuel when expelling it.
Airlocks may well need to work in heavy atmosphere or underwater, as noted by the Davion use of having dropships in the water. So thinking they are just worried about outward pressure would be short sighted.
The issue with the underwater firing of the arrow system is there is nothing saying it can do so. The polaris missiles subs used for a while were special munitions. They were not set up to fire from say a silo in the ground. This does not mean a house variant can't work, but again, alt verses canon in the post.
The original ship was 30,000 tons. Increasing it by 10 times means the engine would not be valid.
Also, there are references at the bottom of the wiki page. It should give you more information on how to get the stats for this.
As it appears to go, I would think they used dropship/warship rules to make this vessel. There is a notation on the side bar as well for large vessel type C a believe.
To be honest, it may be easier to just build a dropship that does get used underwater. And I would suggest some underwater weapons as well. Sooner or later you will get a visit, and your normal weapons will be pretty useless.
|
Cray
03/12/21 09:55 AM
71.47.193.139
|
Quote:
Also the ship all told will be around 300,000 tons approx.
Tactical Operations' support vehicle construction rules stop at 100,000 tons. You can't build a sub larger than that without home rules.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
|
|
|
Extra information
|
0 registered and 240 anonymous users are browsing this forum.
Moderator: Nic Jansma, Cray, Frabby, BobTheZombie
Print Topic
|
Forum Permissions
You cannot start new topics
You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled
UBBCode is enabled
|
Topic views: 6637
|
|
|
|
|
|
|