Heat Damage

Pages: 1
Zaku
04/22/21 05:28 AM
82.40.9.192

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
Hey, I am making a heat based build mech as a support mech, it uses Plasma rifles and Inferno missiles. Not the most effective build I am aware, however the people I play with have said that the amount of heat that can be transferred to a enemy is a fixed amount.

So say I had 3 Plasma rifles and rolled a 6 on all 1d6 heat rolls it would get capped off at 10. I am trying to find this in a book to create a more optimal build, however I am unsure if this exists. As they claim Plasma Rifles have the option between dealing 10 heat damage or 10 normal damage (like a special ammo option). However I have found by reading that they deal damage and heat (though 1d6 rather than 10). I will admit we both do not know the rules that well, so I am reaching out.

Could anyone clarify this or provide reference where heat transfer damage is handled in the books.

P.S I am also having a hard time pinning down how heat affects battle armour, tanks and conventional infantry. I am under the impression it does something nasty to them but its hard to pin down.


Edited by Zaku (04/22/21 05:31 AM)
Karagin
04/22/21 10:08 AM
70.118.172.64

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
Heat is not a good thing for mechs or anything in Battletech. Tanks have to have enough heat sinks to fire their combined energy weapons, so if a tank has a PPC which is 10 heat, then it needs 10 heat sinks. Now, most would slap a fusion engine on that tank calling it good to go. Some may put an IC Engine on it and add the 10 heat sinks and develop a fluff reason to explain why they couldn't use a fusion engine.

Heat kills infantry. Battlearmor, aka Elementals, etc... are all not affected by heat in the same sense as mechs, aerospace, and vehicles are.

The special damage the Plasma rifles do is similar to how infernos work, they add extra heat to the target overall heat count. If Enforcer is running at 6 heat, it would spike to 16, meaning the 6 it had added to the new applied heat damage of 10 for a total of 16. Now this could be something it can handle depending on things like variant and time frame, meaning does it have double heat sinks or not. The extra heat damage could cause a player to have to roll to avoid ammo cook-off or shutdown as well as add new issues like having trouble hitting or moving due to the excess heat build-up you added to their planned levels.

I am sure Cray or one of the others will chime in and offer more input. I hope my oversimplified input helps.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
ghostrider
04/22/21 11:48 AM
66.74.60.165

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
The wiki entry of Plasma Cannon has some details on what the effects of a hit does to what type of unit.
If it is up to date, as there is a hold on putting out new information for a short while this might be different from the latest rule books.

Oddly enough, it suggests units that don't have a heat scale just take normal damage. There is also nothing suggesting there is a limit to the amount of heat a unit can take from multiple hits. Doesn't meant there isn't, just that the wiki doesn't say anything about this aspect.

The Plasma doesn't seem to have the same instant death scenario like inferno missiles do.

But the wiki does suggest the sources that the information comes from, so that may help with understanding the whole deal.


Edited by ghostrider (04/22/21 11:52 AM)
Zaku
04/22/21 12:19 PM
82.40.9.192

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply

Thanks guys, though I managed to find the rule relating to the heat cap on page 158 to 159 on total warfare. In short outside heat sources do count 'External Weapon fire' as being capped by how much 'external heat' a unit can take. The cap being 15 heat points. Including environment, flamers, Inferno SRM's etc.

However thanks for the help with the infantry and battle armour question.
Wick
04/22/21 07:01 PM
173.247.25.195

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
I'm not familiar with this rules minutia, but is it clearly stated that Battlearmor is killed by fire/heat? PA(L) and light exoskeletal armor I agree with. But I'm not sure its the heat alone that actually kills true Battlearmor like Elementals if it does, but the fact that Plasma Rifles and Flamers can melt through their armor to expose the fleshy human underneath to the searing heat. Given Toadies can walk around on lunar surfaces under full sunlight (i.e. above boiling external temperature) its evident that as long as the armor is not breached they should survive temperature extremes as well as a mech or environmentally-sealed vehicle.
ghostrider
04/22/21 11:21 PM
66.74.60.165

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
I know it sounds odd, but fire and heat are not quite the same thing. All lasers do damage thru heat, but do not kill instantaneously, most of the time.
Might be that heat is focused in a small area, while fire is like submersion, it is everywhere at once, which kills organic life.
It sounds a bit on the weird side, but you can burn yourself with getting hot grease on you, but you probably won't die, unless it is a major amount. You might wish you did afterwards though.

The Salamander Elemental armor is immune to fire, which needs to be pointed out. It shows that you can make something to resist fire, but at a price.

Looking the plasma cannon up, gave me info I didn't know about the weapon. As I don't have the books that deal with it, I just assume it was like a flamer hit and just killed units like normal infantry like fire did. It was interesting to find this out.
Karagin
04/23/21 12:28 AM
70.118.172.64

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
The issue with having one Battlearmor type immune to fire makes a mess of how the Battlearmor was shown in the novels, where Shin talks about them walking through the fire of the oil refinery and not being bothered by the flames or heat.

I am really starting to see that the whole Jihad/Dark Age silliness really nerfted the hell out of the game.

Sorry about thread jacking.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Wick
04/23/21 06:35 PM
173.247.25.195

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
Well an oil refinery burning is a simple combustion fire. Flamers and Plasma Rifles are explicitly superheated condensed plasma streams. You condense anything enough it can cut through just about anything (waterjet cutting for example.) Which brings me back to the point that its probably not the heat, its the environment breach that is lethal.
CrayModerator
04/24/21 08:53 AM
71.47.193.139

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
Quote:
Hey, I am making a heat based build mech as a support mech, it uses Plasma rifles and Inferno missiles. Not the most effective build I am aware, however the people I play with have said that the amount of heat that can be transferred to a enemy is a fixed amount.



See p. 159 Total Warfare: Outside Heat Sources.

Quote:
Outside factors can also build up a unit’s heat. Different
heat-causing weapons (see Weapons and Equipment, p. 113),
as well as environmental conditions (hostile environments
and fire, both of which are covered in Tactical Operations), add
heat to whatever a unit builds up with its own activities.

All such outside heat sources—meaning any heat that
does not come from a unit’s own movement and weapons
fire—are tracked somewhat differently before being added
to a unit’s own heat. These heat sources are cumulative, to a
maximum of 15 heat points (per turn)




There is an exception for magma (p. 37 Tactical Operations), which has no upper heat limit per turn and is handled separately of, say, infernos and environmental heat.

Quote:
As they claim Plasma Rifles have the option between dealing 10 heat damage or 10 normal damage (like a special ammo option). However I have found by reading that they deal damage and heat (though 1d6 rather than 10). I will admit we both do not know the rules that well, so I am reaching out.



It's not an option, but something baked (har har, heat joke) into the rules. Total Warfare p. 139:

Quote:
Plasma Cannon
A plasma cannon delivers no damage, aside from 2D6 points
of heat, to ’Mechs, aerospace fighters and small craft during
the Heat Phase (see Outside Heat Sources, p. 159). For any other
unit type, apply 3D6 damage. After determining Damage
Value by rolling 3D6, divide the damage from a plasma cannon
into 5-point Damage Value groupings (assign any remaining
damage to a final grouping), with each grouping assigned to
a different location using the appropriate Damage Location
Table (provided the target has separate locations).

Plasma Rifle
In addition to its standard Damage Value of 10, a plasma rifle
delivers 1D6 points of heat to ’Mechs, aerospace fighters, and
small craft during the Heat Phase (see Outside Heat Sources, p.
159). For any other unit type, add 2D6 extra damage. After determining
the extra Damage Value by rolling 2D6, combine that
damage with the standard 10-point Damage Value. Then divided
that total into 5-point Damage Value groupings (assigning any
remaining damage to a final grouping), with each grouping
assigned to a different location using the appropriate Damage
Location Table (provided the target has separate locations; in the
case of battle armor, apply this damage to the unit as a whole,
rather than to each trooper).




Quote:
P.S I am also having a hard time pinning down how heat affects battle armour, tanks and conventional infantry. I am under the impression it does something nasty to them but its hard to pin down.



See above. Non-heat tracking units take damage from plasma weapons. There's no switch involved; it's automatic. When you fire a plasma cannon against battle armor, see the damage in the weapon description above.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Pages: 1
Extra information
2 registered and 48 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Nic Jansma, Cray, Frabby, BobTheZombie 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is enabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Topic views: 3695


Contact Admins Sarna.net