Requiem
06/20/21 07:36 PM
1.158.147.1
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“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the results of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. I you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Following the Bridal Toast, the Groom gave the Bride the Capellan Confederation – and with that the 4th Succession War Commenced …
… and with research the entire FC’s military strategy can be considered incredibly limited and inefficient in that its development, when placed against the overriding goals / objectives of the FS and LC it only succeeds in opening the Terran Corridor – it fails spectacularly when military forces are utilized to attack and capture worlds with no long-term strategic value for the FC.
Of no importance
Wave 2 – Tsitsang, Gan Singh, Buchlau, Hunan, Ningpo, Alrescha
Wave 3 – Menkar, Achernar, Kansu, Yangtze, Tybalt, Slocum, New Canton, Arboris, Jonathan
Wave 4 – Menkalinan, Shipka, Foochow, Foot Fall, Woodstock, Hamal, Second Try
Wave 5 – Zaurak, Menkib, New Macao, Mandate, Remshield
Wave 6 – Truth, Kaifeng, Matsu, Heligoland, Palos, Sakhalin
Civilian Targets
Wave 1 - Aldebaran,
Wave 2 – Zurich
Wave 3 – Tigress
Wave 4 - Highspire
Secondary Military Target
Wave 1 – Liao, Algol, Pleione, Poznan, St. Andre, Shensi
Wave 2 – Genoa
Wave 4 – Tall Trees, Azha
Wave 5 – Wei, Tsingtao
Wave 7 – Tsinghai
Primary Military Target
Wave 1 – New Hessen, Styk
Wave 2 – Tikonov
Wave 3 – Saiph
Wave 4 – Bharat
Wave 5 – Corey, Sarna
Wave 6 – Sian (surprise Attack)
At this stage you could hypothesise that there are 37 worlds of no real importance - 20 worlds with military importance, and of them only 7 primary attack worlds!
As can be seen, much of the war was wasted upon targets that could have been moped up after the War was finalized … what is worse, there are four primary targets within extremely ‘close-proximity’ as and when Hanse finishes the War - Bithinia, Ingersoll, Capella, and Ares.
It is clear the application of resources for this war were mismanaged! (In my Opinion)
So ‘in-order-to’ increase the number of secondary target worlds, that make some sort of strategical sense, I will in the future be introducing the concept of reserve forces – As well small military industrial complexes upon high population / high SIL (A&B) worlds as to their military size, and what each world should be able to manufacture in their defence – including manufacturing munitions /armor. Their capture, therefore, is required to restrict the flow of munitions as well as conventional reserve forces that can be transported to the front line (when required).
So, what is a legitimate military target?
Protocol 1 to the Geneva Conventions, Article 52, states “In so far as objectives are concerned, military objectives are limited to those objectives which by their nature, location, purpose or use make an effective contribution to military action and whose total or partial destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, offers a definitive military advantage.”
Any attack must be justified by military necessity:
- Must be intended to help in the military defeat of the enemy – on a military objective; and
- The harm caused to civilians or civilian property must be proportional and not “excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated.”
If it is not clear then the parties to the conflict should err on the side of caution, “In case of doubt whether an object which is normally dedicated to civilian purposes, such as a place of worship, a house, or other dwelling or a school, is being used to make an effective contribution to military action, it shall be presumed not to be so used.”
Hanse Davion’s Political and Military Aims in initiating the 4th Succession War.
When the Federated Suns and Lyran Commonwealth entered the 4th Succession War their aims were simple:
Primary: Unification of the two realms through the Terran Corridor
Secondary: To destabilize the balance of power through the acquisition of the Capellan Confederation’s strategic industrial production to destroy the Capellan Confederation’s ability and will to fight – Thus to seize, retain and exploit the initiative to position the Federated Commonwealth for the for the final 5th Succession War.
The Federated Commonwealth’s permanent war aims did not change …
Nt; CCAF – TO&E – Combined forces equating to 49 BattleMech Regiments + 1 Company – 10 Regiments + 1 Company, are mercenary. The overall defence of the realm resides with their conventional forces.
When considering Cannon History - Hanse Davion’s Operation Rat is built upon a premise / concept where each world’s strategic importance to the Capellan Confederation is completely ignored, only the number captured worlds is to be considered important, as well as their geographical location to that of the Terran Corridor.
If we, however, strategically analyse the Confederation - then the following information is obtained …
Then let’s consider the Pacific Strategy 1942-1945 as the amphibious invasion soon became the hallmark tactic in counterattacking. The goal was to dislodge the enemy and secure bases that could serve as launching points for future attacks. In this campaign MacArthur’s forces skipped over heavily fortified islands to seize lightly defended locations that could support the next advance. Strongholds were isolated their defenders were left to weaken with the lack of logistical re-supply.
Within Capellan Confederation the reverse should be considered – the Federated Commonwealth’s goal should be to dislodge the enemy Capellan’s upon their most heavily fortified and strategically important worlds (as well as worlds that can provide reserve forces and logistical / munitions support), that could then be utilized as launching points for future attacks and in denying the CCAF access to their military industrial complex – restricting their ability to continue the war.
Any lightly defended / heavily populated civilian worlds behind the front line can then be mopped up following the end of the war ….
Why? – the efficient allocation of naval jump-ship and dropship resources – by concentrating upon Primary and Secondary Target worlds within the Capellan Confederation multiple RCTs plus reserve conventional forces can be then utilized to attack and hold whist there remains a sizeable fleet for logistical support as well as the transport of reserve elements (if necessary).
This is where an accurate Jump-ship and Drop-ship fleet number would have been helpful … however it will require a talented accountant / computer program to determine fleet movement cargo space etc. and this would detract from the game’s specifics – suggest a multiple D6 Table to determine transport / ETA - availability.
For security bases within ‘close-proximity’, the GM may decide to roll to determine if excess fleet assets are available, and when they may be available to transport reserves to the front line …
Example …
Fleet Availability
The sum of 3D6
3 – Nil-Available …
4 – Scout (1)
5 – Merchant (2)
6 – Invader (3)
7 – Two Merchants (4)
8 – Two Invaders (6)
9 - Two Star Lords (12)
10 – Nil-Available …
11 – Roll twice and add
results together.
12 – Two Star Lords (12)
13 - Two Invaders (6)
14 - Two Merchants (4)
15 - Invader (3)
16 - Merchant (2)
17 - Scout (1)
18 – Two Monoliths (18)
Time Required until Fleet is Available
The sum of 2D6
2 – Two Weeks
3 – Four Weeks
4 – Six Weeks
5 – Four Weeks
6 – Two weeks
7 – Four weeks
8 – Six weeks
9 – Eight weeks
10 – Six Weeks
11 – Four Weeks
12 – Two Weeks
Over time this Forum will, therefore, be devoted to creating an alternate Operation Rat War as well as examining and re-configuring the military – available forces (on both sides) – by analysing the pertinent information provided and go from there ….
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
06/20/21 07:37 PM
1.158.147.1
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First – an analysis of the Capellan Confederation based upon the information provided ….
Note – I have decided to rank the Primary Military Target worlds and will apply this to my invasion map to effectively determine where and when I should utilize my FC forces during Operation Rat - as well as where I place my elite / Veteran CC forces in defence.
Capitol World …
(1) Sian
Sian Centre for Martial Disciplines
Sian University
Hellespoint Industries – Mech – Stinger, Wasp, Ravin, Assassin - Vehicles – APC (Hv. Wheeled, tracked, hover), Pegusus, Maxim, Scorpion, Vedette
Saroyan Special Productions – Aerospace – Transgressor - Conventional – Heavy Strike Fighter
Primary Target Worlds …
Legitimate Military Targets
(2) Capella – Regional Capital World
Capella War College
Shipyards – Civilian
Rashpur-Owens Inc. – Jumpships – Invader, Merchant, Monolith – Dropships – Achilles, Avenger, Excalibur, Triumph
Ceres Metals Industries – Mechs – Marauder, Vindicator, Ostroc – Aerospace – Transit.
Mujika Aerospace Technologies – Aerospace – (Firebird Obsolete), Transit
(3) Ares
Military Installation
Bergan Industries – Mech – Locust, Stinger
Earthwerks Inc. – Dropships – Overlord, Union, Davis, Vengeance – Sm. Craft – Bus
Quickscell Coy. – Vehicles – AC2 Carrier, Bulldog, APC (Heavy Tracked), LRM Carrier, Manticore, Ordinance Transport, SRM Carrier, APC (Tracked).
Salvatore Inc. – Dropships – Seeker, Vengeance – Sm. Craft – K-1 Dropshuttle
(4) St. Ives – Regional Capitol
St. Ives Academy of Martial Sciences
HildCo Interplanetary – Mech – Victor
StarCorps Ind. – Mech – Warhammer
Mujika Aerospace – Aerospace – Thrush - Conventional – Guardian, Mechbuster, Crane, Boomerang
Tengo Aerospace – Aerospace – Cheetah, Thrush, Lightning - Sm. Craft – ST-46 Shuttle
(5) Tikonov – Regional Capital World
Military Installations
Earthwerks Inc. – Mech. - Cataphract, Quickdraw, Thunderbolt – AF – Thrush, Transit
Ceres Metals Industries – Vehicle - Components
Grand Union Battleworks – Vehicle – Strike Falcon Attack VTOL
(6) Sarna – Regional Capital World
Sarna Martial Academy
Tengo Aerospace – Conventional – Yangtze Air Transport – Aerospace – Cheetah, Thrush, Lightning – Dropship – Mammoth, Mule, Seeker – VTOL – Warrior
(7) Grand Base
Military Installation – Training, Staging & Repair Facilities
Earthwerks Inc. – Mech – Stinger, Shadow Hawk, Griffin, Archer, Catapult
(8) Menke
Military Installation – Mech Repair Facility – Jungle Warfare Training Facility
McCarron’s Training Company – Marauder II
Ceres Metals Industries – Vehicle – Po
Menke Armor & Armament Components – Armor & Targeting-Tracking Systems
StarCorps Industries – Mech – Warhammer – Industrial Mech - Marco
(9) New Hessen
New Hessen ArmorWorks – Vehicle – Korvin
New Hessen WorkMechs – Mechs – BattleAxe, Hammerhands (Updated to Warhammer)
Hesssen Industrial Works – Mechs – BattleAxe, Hammerhands (Updated to Warhammer) – Vehicles – Vedette, Striker, LRM Carrier, APC (Tracked, Wheeled & Hover) – Conventional Fighter – Defender MSF
(10) Warlock
Ceres Metals Industries – Mech – Marauder, Ostroc, Blackjack
Located on the Moon – Blackguard – Naval Repair Facility
(11) Styk
CC’s 2nd most industrialized world
Tao Mechworks – Mech – Crusader, Victor, BattleMaster
(12) Corey
Hollis Inc. – Mech – Catapult, BattleMaster, Highlander, Xanthos
(13) Ingersoll
Military Installation
Mining – Gold & Silver - Important Economically to CC.
Aldis Industries – Vehicles – Behemoth, Demolisher, Schrek, Scorpion Minesweeper.
Bulldog Enterprises – Vehicles – Bulldog, Manticore
(14) Betelgeuse
Majority of CC luxury & consumer goods
Aldis Industries – Vehicles – Behemoth Heavy Tank, Demolisher Heavy Tank, Schrek PPC Carrier, Scorpion (minesweeper), Zhukov
Firmir Weaponry – Laser Weapons (Sm., Md., & Lg.)
(15) Sarmaxa
Tao Mechworks – Mech – Crusader
(16) Boardwark
Confederation Defence Corporation – Mech – Firebee (Updated to Commando)
(17) Victoria
Military Installation – former SLDF BattleMech Research Centre & Garrison ‘Fort Lee’
Earthwerks Inc. – Mech – Flea
Trellis Electronics – Communication Systems & Targeting-Tracking System
(18) Saiph
Sitwell Corporation – Industrial Mech – Powerman Loader Mech
(19) Glasgow
Wesley Industries – Industrial Mech - Demolition
(20) Bithinia
Resort world for the rich & powerful
Bithinia Ballistics – Artillery – Thumper, Long Tom
(21) Indicass
Ceres Metals Industries – Vehicles – Galleon, Coolant Truck, APC (Wheeled & Heavy Wheeled), Hetzer, Mobile HQ, Swift Wind
Quickscell Coy. – VTOL
(22) Texlos
HildCo Interplanetary – Aerospace – Lightning
(23) Bharat
Killosh Industries – Vehicle – Magi
Special Forces / Mercenary Assignments
Bryant (either special forces or mercenaries)
With the destruction of the Storm Inhibitor Mirrors during the Amaris Civil War the planet’s populace was forced to flee back to the poles. With a rare HPG A Class upon the planet has raised a red flag as to what is going on. It is assumed that Comstar may be either looting the old cities for valuable lost-tech, or they have a secret facility. Hidden satellites have been utilized to narrow down these possible locations – your group is sent in to determine what is going on and perhaps put a stop to it.
Brighton (Special Forces only)
Upon Brighton’s Moon there resides a political prison - ‘Brazen Heart’.
In 3021 Tormana Liao secretly smuggled his wife Hanya No Cha back to Brazen Heart when his father annulled their marriage (and fearing that her life may now be in jeopardy).
Your assignment is to penetrate Brazen Heart and request of her to agree to accompany the Special Forces team into the FS – where agents will offer Tormana Liao and his wife asylum within the FC, as guests of House Davion.
Secondary Target Worlds …
Small Military Installations
(On your map put a P – for Procurement & MI for Military Installation – to assist with strategy)
Azha
Regional Military Procurement Division Facility
Shensi
Regional Military Procurement Division Facility
Algol
The moon of Kali – Military Installation “Warex Base”
Liao
Military Installation
Pleione
Military Installation – former SLDF ‘Thunder Rock’
St. Andre
Military Installation – former SLDF storage outpost
Raballa
Military Installation – underground aerospace fighter support facility
(Once this information is on the map you will see there is no information for Procurement / Military Bases within the remaining half of the CC – Capella, St Ives or Sian Commonality … suggest creating / modifying some of your own game.)
Strategically important Mining Facilities
Genoa
Mining Facilities – primarily gemstones.
Poznan
Mining Facilities – Precious metals.
Tsingtao
Petroleum Refinery
WMD – Possible Sites
Tsinghai
Military Installation –
Mining Radioactive Isotopes – Possible nuclear weapons manufacturing.
Small World
Mining Radioactive Isotopes – Possible nuclear weapons manufacturing.
Tall Trees
Biological Warfare Research Facility
Wei
Possible Biological Warfare Research Facility
Economically (Other) Important
Vestallas
Treasury World – Underground Vaults
Wright
Lustrix Commodities – Pharmaceuticals Manufacturer etc. (approx. 40% of all the CC)
Rollis
Commerce – Forestry, Similar to a Periphery World as SIL-D
Sm. Orbital repair Facility – Dropships and sm. Craft.
Targets of Opportunity
Necromo <Hidden World>
Possible Dropship Repair Facility & Shipyard
Important worlds within the Terran Corridor etc - <Non Military>
Based upon their geographically Importance -
Keid - Gateway to and from Terra – Population 4.6Billion.
Epsilon Eridani - Commerce – Population 2.4Billion
Fletcher - Manufacturing – Population 2.4Billion
Tikonov Commonality Important Worlds
Hall - Commerce – Population – 2.4Billion
Elgin - Commerce – Population 5.5Billion
Hsien - Commerce – Population 3Billion (approx.)
Nanking - Agriculture – Population 5.9Billion
Tigress - Highly Educated – Population 3.3Billion
Zurich - Horticulture – Population 1.8Billion
Aldebaran - Commerce – HPG A Rank – Population 4.3Billion
Sarna Commonality Important Worlds
Highspire - Commerce – Population 1.2Billion
Capella Commonality Important Worlds
Gei-Fu – Livestock, agriculture & water – Population 2.1Billion
Ovan – Commerce – Problem world kleptocracy (SIL-C) – Population 5.2Billion (Opportunity to remove those in power and establish a new government loyal to the FC)
Kashilla – Commerce – Population 1.8Billion
St. Ives Commonality Important Worlds
Brighton – Mining / Refinery – Political Prison ‘Brazen Heart’ – Population 4Billion (Opportunity to utilize dissidents within prison.)
Sian Commonality Important Worlds
Krin – Commerce – Population 2.3Billion
Altorra – Commerce – Population 1Billion
Westerhand – Commerce – Population 1Billion
Hustaing – Commerce – Population 2.3Billion
Housekarle – Commerce – Population 2Billion
Sigma Mare – Commerce (Terraforming Research) – Population 2.9Billion
Buenos Aires – Commerce, agriculture & aquaculture – Population 2.2Billion
Barras – Commerce (Free Port) – Population 3.5Billion
Holloway – Commerce, (problem SIL-C) – Population 1.3Billion
Zanzibar – Commerce (Black-market) – Population 1.5Billion
Egress – Commerce, (problem SIL-C) – Population 2.8Billion
Gunthar – Administrative Capitol world
Turin – Commerce, horticulture, (problem SIL-C) – Population 3.3Billion
Shiba – Commerce, (problem SIL-C) – Population 2Billion
Principia – Commerce – Population 3.3Billion
Ward – Commerce, (problem SIL-C) – Population 1.6Billion
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
06/20/21 07:38 PM
1.158.147.1
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Second, based upon the information noted above the primary military vehicles available to the CC would indicate the following …
BattleMech
Standard
Light 'Mechs
20 Flea
20 Locust
20 Stinger
20 Wasp
25 Commando
35 Raven
Medium 'Mechs
40 Assassin
45 Vindicator
45 Blackjack
45 Phoenix Hawk
55 Shadow Hawk
55 Griffin
Heavy 'Mechs
60 Quickdraw
60 Ostroc
65 Catapult
65 Thunderbolt
65 Crusader
70 Cataphract
70 Archer
70 Warhammer
75 Marauder
Assault 'Mechs
80 Victor
85 BattleMaster
100 Marauder II
Limited Numbers
90 Highlander
100 Xanthos
Unable to Manufacture
30 Falcon
35 Firebee
70 BattleAxe
75 Hammerhands
80 Striker
85 Longbow
90 Emperor
100 Pillager
Industrial Mech
30 MR-8C Marco
35 Powerman LoaderMech
35 Demolition
Armor
APC
10 APC (Tracked) - MG
10 APC (Wheeled) - 2MG
10 APC(Hover) - 2MG
20 APC (Heavy Wheeled) - 2MG
Cavalry - Reconnaissance
35 Pegasus (Hover) - 2SRM6, Md Laser
50 Maxim (Hover) - 3LRM5, SRM6, 2SRM2, 3MG
Infantry Support
25 Scorpion (tracked) - AC5, MG
30 Galleon (Tracked) - Md Laser, 2Sm Laser
70 Magi (Tracked) - 3Md Laser, 2MG
Support
25 Scorpion (Tracked) - Minesweeper, MG, 2LRM5
Mobile Gun System - Support
50 Vedette (Tracked) - AC5, MG
60 AC/2 Carrier (Tracked) - 5AC2
60 Manticore (Tracked) - PPC, Md Laser, SRM6, LRM10
Fire Support
35 Striker (Wheeled) - SRM6, LRM10
60 LRM Carrier (tracked) - 3LRM20
80 Demolisher (Tracked) - 2AC20
80 Schrek (tracked) - 3PPC
Main Battle - Support
50 Korvin (Tracked) - Lg Laser, LRM10, 5MG
Main Battle
60 Bulldog (tracked) - Lg Laser, 2SRM4, MG
60 Po (Tracked) - AC10, 2MG
75 Zhukov (Tracked) - 2AC10, SRM6
100 Behemoth (tracked) - 2AC10, 4LRM5, 2SRM6, 4SRM2, 4MG
Artillery
60 Thumper (Wheeled) - Thumper Artillery Piece, 2 Sm Laser, 4 MG
95 Mobile Long Tom - Long Tom Artillery Piece, 4MG
Support – Every House would have an equivalent support vehicle based on the following …
Logistics
3 Cargo Hauler (Wheeled)
10 Flatbed / Cargo Hauler (Wheeled)
50 Flatbed / Cargo Hauler (Wheeled)
Ordinance Transport
10 Ordinance Transport (Wheeled)
50 Ordinance Transport (Wheeled)
Infantry Support
8 Swift Wind Reconnaissance & Staff Car (Wheeled)
15 Mobile Commissary (Wheeled)
20 Packrat LRPV (Wheeled)
Mech Support
30 Coolant Truck (Wheeled)
30 Fuel Tanker (Tracked / Wheeled)
70 Transportable Field Repair Vehicle (Tracked)
50 Mech Recovery Vehicle (Wheeled)
70 Mech Recovery Vehicle (wheeled)
150 Recovery Vehicle & Salvage Bed (Tracked)
15 Mobile HQ (wheeled)
25 Mobile HQ (wheeled)
50 Mobile HQ (wheeled)
Engineering
10-40 Engineering Vehicle - Various (Tracked)
70 Engineering Support Vehicle (Tracked)
75 Combat Support Bridgelayer (Tracked)
MASH
50 MASH Truck (Wheeled)
20 Packrat Ambulance LRPV (Wheeled)
15 Marten Scout Ambulance VTOL (Unarmed)
Air Transport (or variation of …)
30 Karnov UR Transport
50 Planetlifter Air Transport
200 Cargo Air Transport
AeroSpace
25 Cheetah - 2Md Lasers, Sm Laser
25 Thrush - 3Md Lasers
50 Transit - AC10, 4Md Lasers
50 Lightning - AC20,Md Lasers
75 Transgressor - 3Lg Lasers, 4Md Lasers
Obsolete
45 Firebird - AC2, LRM10
Conventional
20 Guardian - SRM6
25 Defender MSF - SRM2, 2LRM5
25 Crane - 3LRM5
45 Heavy Strike Fighter - AC10, 2SRM4
50 Mechbuster - AC20
5 Boomerang
Yangtze Air Transport
(Here I would like to insert the conventional bomber (Medium and Heavy) – I would also like to add in Ground-to-Air, Air-to-Air etc missiles – for SAM Batteries and jet warfare etc.)
VTOL
15 Marten VTOL - SRM2, Infantry & Cargo
21 Warrior VTOL - AC5
21 Warrior VTOL - LRM10
30 SFA VTOL - 2LRM5, 2MG
JumpShip (Primarily)
Invader - 3
Merchant - 2
Monolith – 9
Dropships (Primary)
Avenger
Danais
Achilles
Union
Seeker
Triumph
Vengeance
Overlord
Mule
Excalibur
Mammoth
Small Craft
Dropshuttle
ST-46 Shuttle
As for Infantry weapons – they should have access to all infantry weapons available based upon being regular forces / reserve forces and their worlds SIL – ie. B and above access to everything, however a C rank would indicate only limited access to more advanced weapons / electronics / sneak suits etc.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
06/23/21 03:15 AM
1.158.147.1
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Third, CC BattleMech Units - Notes on units that have possible replacement part issues due to their primary Mechs being imported / made obsolete within the CC.
Information as per House Liao Book …
Unit … Imported / Obsolete Mech
Red Lancers … Orion
Prefectorate Guard … Centurion
1st Kearny Highlanders … Ostol
1st Ariana Fusiliers … Falcon – change to either Assassin or Commando
Ariana Grenadiers … Panther
2nd Chesterton Voltigeurs … Panther
Lothar’s Fusiliers … Hornet – change to Assassin
Sung’s Cuirassiers … Hunchback
Kingston’s Legionnaires … Trebutchet
Trimaldi’s Secutors … Spider
2nd St. Ives Lancers … Panther
St. Ives Cheveau Legers … Hatchetman – change to Centurion
Devon’s Armored Infantry … Ostol
Stapleton’s Iron Hand … Banshee
Justine’s Grenadiers … Dervish
Stapleton’s Grenadiers … Ostscout
Kamakura’s Hussars … Hornet – Change to Assassin
Ishara’s Grenadiers … Grasshopper
Freemont’s Cuirassiers … Javelin
Kincade’s Rangers … Ostscout and Scorpion
Kerr’s Intruders … Charger
Crimmon’s Light Cavalry … Centurion & Ostscout
Blackwind Lancers … Enforcer
Mercenary Issues with regards to the CC assisting with repairs
MAC – 3rd Regiment … Ostscout
MAC – 4th Regiment … Falcon – change to either Assassin or Commando
MAC – 5th Regiment … Ostol
Bullard’s Armored Cavalry … Hornet – change to Assassin
Marshigama’s Legionnaires … Scorpion and Goliath
15th Dracon … Centurion and Rifleman
Rivaldi’s Hussars … Grasshopper
St. Cyr’s Armored Grenadiers … Hunchback and Ostscout
Unique Mechs the CC that they are still able to manufacture include …
Highlander – GHN-733 and HGN-733C
Xanthos – XNT-30
Also – should the CC be allowed to manufacture both the Falcon and Hornet as per above?
Massive changes are therefore required by CC to fix the multitude of problems, when it comes to the CCAF, due to logistical issues, (in my opinion)
First, I am going to codify Capellan Units based upon their designation as to their military function.
Commandos – Elite / Veteran specialist unit consisting of all weight class mechs – utilized for high-risk assignments.
Battalion – 1 Light, 1 Medium and 1 Heavy Mech Coys + 3 Para-Infantry Coys.
Rangers – Elite / Veteran specialist unit consisting of light and medium class mechs – utilized for high-risk assignments.
Battalion – 1 Light and 2 Medium Mech Coys + 3 Recon Vehicle Coys + 3 Para-Infantry Coys.
Shaolin – Warrior Houses – consisting of three different variations.
- 2 Battalions – 3 Medium and 3 Heavy Mech Coys + 3 Motorized Infantry Coys + 3 Motorized Jump-Infantry Coys;
- 2 Battalions – 3 Medium and 3 Heavy Mech Coys + 1 Aerospace Wing; and
- 2 Battalions – 2 Light and 4 Medium Mech Coys
Dragoon - Consists mainly of heavy-to-assault class mechs, heavy vehicles, motorized / VTOL infantry, artillery, and aerospace fighters.
Regiment – 9 Heavy-Assault Mech Coy + 18 Main Battle / Fire Support Tank Coys + 18 Motorized / VTOL Infantry Coys + 3 Artillery Coy + 3 Aerospace Wings.
Cavaliers – Consists mainly of medium and assault class mechs, heavy vehicles, motorized / VTOL infantry, and aerospace fighters.
Regiment – 5 Medium and 4 Assault Mech Coy + 18 Battle / Fire Support Tank Coys + 18 Motorized / VTOL Infantry Coys + 2 Aerospace Wings.
Lancer – Consists mainly of heavy class mechs, heavy vehicles, motorized / VTOL infantry, and aerospace fighters.
Regiment – 9 Heavy Mech Coy + 18 Battle / Fire Support Tank Coys + 18 Motorized / VTOL Infantry Coys + 1 Aerospace Wings.
Guard - Consists mainly of heavy class mechs, heavy vehicles, motorized / VTOL infantry, and aerospace fighters.
Regiment – 9 Heavy Mech Coy + 9 Battle / Fire Support Tank Coys + 9 Motorized / VTOL Infantry Coys + 2
Aerospace Wings.
Hussar - Consists mainly of medium and heavy class mechs, medium vehicles, motorized / VTOL infantry, and aerospace fighters.
Regiment – 5 Medium and 4 Heavy Mech Coy + 18 Battle / Fire Support Tank Coys + 18 Motorized / VTOL Infantry Coys + 1 Aerospace Wings.
Armored Cavalry – Consists mainly of light and heavy class mechs, who can operate independently for extended periods of time.
Regiment – 5 Light and 4 Heavy Mech Coy
Armored Infantry – Consists of light and heavy class mechs, vehicles, motorized / VTOL infantry, and aerospace fighters.
Regiment – 5 Light and 4 Heavy Mech Coy + 9 Tank Coys + 9 Cavalry / Recon Coys + 18 Motorized / VTOL Infantry Coys + 1 Aerospace Wings.
Grenadiers – Consists of medium class mechs, medium support vehicles, infantry, artillery, and aerospace fighters.
Regiment – 9 Medium Mech Coy, 9 Battle / Fire Support Tank Coys + 9 Cavalry / Recon Coys + 18 Motorized / VTOL Infantry Coys + 1 Artillery Coy + 2 Aerospace Squadrons.
Fusiliers - Consists of light-to-medium class mechs, medium support vehicles, infantry, and aerospace fighters.
Demi-Regiment – 2 Battalions - 6 Light-Medium Coys, 9 Light Fire Support Tank Coys + 9 Cavalry / Recon Coys + 18 Motorized Infantry Coys + 1 Aerospace Squadron.
Voltigeurs – Consists of light-to-medium class mechs and infantry trained as skirmishers – ie. guerrilla warfare unit.
Demi-Regiment – 2 Battalions - 6 Light-Medium Coys, and 9 Infantry Coys.
Striker – Consists of light-to-medium class mechs, and vehicles trained as a rapid response reconnaissance / reserve unit.
Demi-Regiment – 2 Battalions - 6 Light-Medium Coys + 9 Cavalry / Recon Coys + 9 Motorized Infantry Coys.
Light Infantry – Consists of light class mech, vehicles, VTOL Infantry and conventional reconnaissance aircraft
Demi-Regiment – 2 Battalions - 6 Light Coys + 9 Cavalry / Recon Coys + 9 VTOL Infantry Coys + 1 Conventional Air Recon Coy
Light Horse – Consists of light class mech trained in reconnaissance.
Demi-Regiment – 2 Battalions - 6 Light Coys + 9 Cavalry / Recon Coys + 1 Conventional Air Recon Coy
Highlanders – Military unit with Scottish ancestry.
Legionnaires – Foreigners who have enlisted for the defence on the realm.
Then I am going to rename the CCAF units, where appropriate, and then provide each unit with a more appropriate Primary BattleMech Configuration (based upon Capellan belief in standardization of everything).
I have created for myself a massive excel sheet for this …
Of the 124 Regional Corps – Home Guard Regiments (refer pg. 69 House Liao) – I converted these to logistical support regiments for both CCAF units as well as Chartered Mercenary Units (as Un-Chartered Units can pay for their own logistical support etc) – this will leave 66 Home Guard Regiments upon the following “important worlds” (whom have not been assigned either regular forces or Mercenary)
Bryant, Small World, Terra Firma, Hall, Hsien, Tall Trees, Zurich, Liao, Azha, Algol, Pleione, Poznan, Shensi, St. Andre, Wei, Tsingha, Raballa, Bora, Tsingtao, Propus, Kurragin, Preston, Ovan, Vestallas, Armaxa, Krin, Bentley, Fronde, Westerhand, Castrovia, Imalda, Hexare, Tantara, Housekarle, Sigma Mare, Shiba, Principia, Barras, Columbine, Egress, Ward, Rollis.
– all remainder can have ill equipped and ill trained green as grass militia.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
06/23/21 04:01 AM
1.158.147.1
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Capellan Confederation Armed Forces
Capellan Confederation Honor Guard:
1st Sian Lancers: Red Lancers (3B/E/F) 9 Heavy Mech Coy + 18 Battle / Fire Support Tank Coys + 18 Motorized / VTOL Infantry Coys + 1 Aerospace Wings. Warhammer, Archer Sian
1st Honor Guard: Prefectorate Guard (3B/V/F) 9 Heavy Mech Coy + 9 Battle / Fire Support Tank Coys + 9 Motorized / VTOL Infantry Coys + 2 Aerospace Wings Marauder, Catapult Sian
2nd Honor Guard: Citizen's Guard (3B/E/F) 9 Heavy Mech Coy + 9 Battle / Fire Support Tank Coys + 9 Motorized / VTOL Infantry Coys + 2 Aerospace Wings Thunderbolt, Crusader Capella
Capellan Confederation: Special Forces
Commando
4th Commando: Death Commandos (1B/E/F) 1 Light, 1 Medium and 1 Heavy Mech Coys + 3 Para-Infantry Coys Various Others Sian
Ranger
1st Special Forces Unit (Rangers) (1B/E/F) 1 Light and 2 Medium Mech Coys + 3 Recon Vehicle Coys + 3 Para-Infantry Coys. Various Others Genoa
2nd Special Forces Unit (Rangers) (1B/E/F) 1 Light and 2 Medium Mech Coys + 3 Recon Vehicle Coys + 3 Para-Infantry Coys. Various Others Necromo
3rd Special Forces Unit (Rangers) (1B/E/F) 1 Light and 2 Medium Mech Coys + 3 Recon Vehicle Coys + 3 Para-Infantry Coys. Various Others Wright
Capellan Confederation: Shaolin
Warrior Houses
Warrior House Imarra (2B/V/F) 3 Medium and 3 Heavy Mech Coys + 3 Motorized Infantry Coys + 3 Motorized Jump-Infantry Coys Various Others Sian
Warrior House Kamata (2B/V/F) 3 Medium and 3 Heavy Mech Coys + 1 Aerospace Wing Various Others Betelgeuse
Warrior House Hiritsu (2B/V/F) 2 Light and 4 Medium Mech Coys Various Others Sarmaxa
Warrior House Lu Sann (2B/V/F) 2 Light and 4 Medium Mech Coys Various Others Grand Base
Warrior House Dai Da Chi (2B/V/F) 3 Medium and 3 Heavy Mech Coys + 1 Aerospace Wing Various Others Victoria
Warrior House Fujita (2B/V/F) 2 Light and 4 Medium Mech Coys Various Others Styk
Warrior House Matsukai (2B/V/F) 2 Light and 4 Medium Mech Coys Various Others Bithinia
Warrior House Ijori (2B/V/F) 3 Medium and 3 Heavy Mech Coys + 3 Motorized Infantry Coys + 3 Motorized Jump-Infantry Coys Various Others Saiph
Capellan Confederation: Regular Army
Chancellor's Dragoon Guards (3B/V/F) 9 Heavy-Assault Mech Coys + 18 Main Battle / Fire Support Tank Coys + 18 Motorized Infantry Coys + 3 Artillery Coys + 3 Aerospace Wings Thunderbolt, Cataphract, Victor & Highlander Capella
1st Dragoon Guards (3B/V/R) 9 Heavy-Assault Mech Coys + 18 Main Battle / Fire Support Tank Coys + 18 Motorized Infantry Coys + 3 Artillery Coys + 3 Aerospace Wings Warhammer, Marauder, BattleMaster & Marauder II Ares
2nd Dragoon Guards (1B/V/R) 3 Assault Coys (New Unit) Xanthos, Marauder II, Goliath Tikonov
1st Capella Cavaliers (3B/V/R) 5 Medium and 4 Assault Mech Coys + 18 Battle / Fire Support Tank Coys + 18 Motorized / VTOL Infantry Coys + 2 Aerospace Wings. Phoenix Hawk, Griffin, Victor & BattleMaster Tikonov
1st St. Ives Lances (1B/R/R) 9 Heavy Mech Coy + 18 Battle / Fire Support Tank Coys + 18 Motorized / VTOL Infantry Coys + 1 Aerospace Wings. Crusader, Archer, Warhammer + Various Others St. Ives
2nd St. Ives Lancers (3B/V/F) 9 Heavy Mech Coy + 18 Battle / Fire Support Tank Coys + 18 Motorized / VTOL Infantry Coys + 1 Aerospace Wings. Catapult, Cataphract, & Marauder + Various Others Warlock
Blackwind Lances (3B/R/R) 9 Heavy Mech Coy + 18 Battle / Fire Support Tank Coys + 18 Motorized / VTOL Infantry Coys + 1 Aerospace Wings. Thunderbolt, Crusader, Archer & Warhammer + Various Others Sarna
3rd Highspire Hussars (3B/R/Q) 5 Medium and 4 Heavy Mech Coy + 18 Battle / Fire Support Tank Coys + 18 Motorized / VTOL Infantry Coys + 1 Aerospace Wings. Phoenix Hawk, Crusader, Archer, & Warhammer + Various Others Menke
7th Highspire Hussars (3B/R/R) 5 Medium and 4 Heavy Mech Coy + 18 Battle / Fire Support Tank Coys + 18 Motorized / VTOL Infantry Coys + 1 Aerospace Wings. Phoenix Hawk, Catapult & Marauder + Various Others New Hessen
13th Highspire Hussars (3B/R/R) 5 Medium and 4 Heavy Mech Coy + 18 Battle / Fire Support Tank Coys + 18 Motorized / VTOL Infantry Coys + 1 Aerospace Wings. Vindicator, Blackjack, Ostroc & Thunderbolt + Various Others Corey
Keid Armored Cavalry (3B/R/R) 5 Light and 4 Heavy Mech Coy Stinger, Wasp & Warhammer + Various Others Ingersoll
Tigress Armored Cavalry (3B/R/R) 5 Light and 4 Heavy Mech Coy Locust, Raven & Marauder + Various Others Boardwalk
Nanking Armored Cavalry (3B/R/R) 5 Light and 4 Heavy Mech Coy Locust, Raven & Marauder + Various Others Glasgow
Gei-Fu Armored Infantry (3B/R/R) 5 Light and 4 Heavy Mech Coy + 9 Tank Coys + 9 Cavalry / Recon Coys + 18 Motorized / VTOL Infantry Coys + 1 Aerospace Wings. Stinger, Wasp, Commando, Crusader & Thunderbolt + Various Others Indicass
Kashilla Armored Infantry (3B/R/R) 5 Light and 4 Heavy Mech Coy + 9 Tank Coys + 9 Cavalry / Recon Coys + 18 Motorized / VTOL Infantry Coys + 1 Aerospace Wings. Locust, Raven, Catapult & Cataphract + Various Others Taxlos
Hustaing Armored Infantry (3B/R/R) 5 Light and 4 Heavy Mech Coy + 9 Tank Coys + 9 Cavalry / Recon Coys + 18 Motorized / VTOL Infantry Coys + 1 Aerospace Wings. Stinger, Wasp, Commando, Ostroc & Archer + Various Others Bharat
Ares Grenadiers (3B/R/R) 9 Medium Mech Coy, 9 Battle / Fire Support Tank Coys + 9 Cavalry / Recon Coys + 18 Motorized / VTOL Infantry Coys + 1 Artillery Coy + 2 Aerospace Squadrons. Phoenix Hawk & Griffin + Various Others Ares
Warlock Grenadiers (3B/V/R) 9 Medium Mech Coy, 9 Battle / Fire Support Tank Coys + 9 Cavalry / Recon Coys + 18 Motorized / VTOL Infantry Coys + 1 Artillery Coy + 2 Aerospace Squadrons. Vindicator & Griffin + Various Others Texlos
Harloc Grenadiers (2B/G/F) 6 Medium Mech Coy, 9 Battle / Fire Support Tank Coys + 9 Cavalry / Recon Coys + 18 Motorized / VTOL Infantry Coys + 1 Artillery Coy + 2 Aerospace Squadrons. Blackjack & Shadow Hawk + Various Others St. Ives
1st Saiph Fusiliers (2B/R/R) 6 Light-Medium Coys, 9 Light Fire Support Tank Coys + 9 Cavalry / Recon Coys + 18 Motorized Infantry Coys + 1 Aerospace Squadron. Commando, Blackjack & Shadow Hawk + Various Others Nanking
2nd Suzano Fusiliers (2B/R/R) 6 Light-Medium Coys, 9 Light Fire Support Tank Coys + 9 Cavalry / Recon Coys + 18 Motorized Infantry Coys + 1 Aerospace Squadron. Locust, Raven, Blackjack & Griffin + Various Others Highspire
1st Glasgow Voltigeurs (2B/R/R) 6 Light-Medium Coys, and 9 Infantry Coys Stinger, Wasp & Phoenix Hawk + Various Others Sarna
2nd Glasgo Voltigeurs (2B/R/R) 6 Light-Medium Coys, and 9 Infantry Coys Stinger, Wasp & Vindicator + Various Others Grand Base
Sigma Mare Strikers (2B/R/R) 6 Light-Medium Coys + 9 Cavalry / Recon Coys + 9 Motorized Infantry Coys Commando, Assassin & Phoenix Hawk + Various Others Menke
Shiba Strikers (2B/R/R) 6 Light-Medium Coys + 9 Cavalry / Recon Coys + 9 Motorized Infantry Coys Commando, Assassin & Vindicator + Various Others New Hessen
St. Andre Light Infantry (2B/R/R) 6 Light Coys + 9 Cavalry / Recon Coys + 9 VTOL Infantry Coys + 1 Conventional Air Recon Coy Locust, Commando & Raven + Various Others Warlock
St. Loris Light Infantry (2B/R/R) 6 Light Coys + 9 Cavalry / Recon Coys + 9 VTOL Infantry Coys + 1 Conventional Air Recon Coy Locust, Commando & Raven + Various Others Buenos Aires
Ingress Light Horse (2B/G/R) 6 Light Coys + 9 Cavalry / Recon Coys + 1 Conventional Air Recon Coy Stinger, Wasp, Locust & Raven + Various Others Keid
Egress Light Horse (2B/G/R) 6 Light Coys + 9 Cavalry / Recon Coys + 1 Conventional Air Recon Coy Stinger, Wasp, Locust & Raven + Various Others Gunthar
Naval - Strategic Aerospace Command
Task Force: Sian
Fighter Scout Class Jumpship - Vengeance Class Dropship - 2 Aerospace Wings (6 Squadrons) Cheetah, Thrush
Fighter Interceptor Scout Class Jumpship - Vengeance Class Dropship - 2 Aerospace Wings (6 Squadrons) Cheetah, Thrush, Transit
Bombardment Group Scout Class Jumpship - Vengeance Class Dropship - 2 Aerospace Wings (6 Squadrons) Lightning, Transgressor
Task Force: Capella
Fighter Scout Class Jumpship - Vengeance Class Dropship - 2 Aerospace Wings (6 Squadrons) Cheetah, Thrush
Fighter Interceptor Scout Class Jumpship - Vengeance Class Dropship - 2 Aerospace Wings (6 Squadrons) Cheetah, Thrush, Transit
Bombardment Group Scout Class Jumpship - Vengeance Class Dropship - 2 Aerospace Wings (6 Squadrons) Lightning, Transgressor
Task Force: St. Ives
Fighter Scout Class Jumpship - Vengeance Class Dropship - 2 Aerospace Wings (6 Squadrons) Cheetah, Thrush
Fighter Interceptor Scout Class Jumpship - Vengeance Class Dropship - 2 Aerospace Wings (6 Squadrons) Cheetah, Thrush, Transit
Bombardment Group Scout Class Jumpship - Vengeance Class Dropship - 2 Aerospace Wings (6 Squadrons) Lightning, Transgressor
Task Force: Tikonov
Fighter Scout Class Jumpship - Vengeance Class Dropship - 2 Aerospace Wings (6 Squadrons) Cheetah, Thrush
Fighter Interceptor Scout Class Jumpship - Vengeance Class Dropship - 2 Aerospace Wings (6 Squadrons) Cheetah, Thrush, Transit
Bombardment Group Scout Class Jumpship - Vengeance Class Dropship - 2 Aerospace Wings (6 Squadrons) Lightning, Transgressor
Home Guard Combat Support Team
124 Regimental Corps Total - 58 assigned to CCAF / Chartered Mercenary Units - 66 distributed among the major worlds or the Confederation.
Home Guard - Army Reserve Nt- Duties Include - Support Regular CCAF BattleMech Forces and Chartered Mercenary Units assigned to their world - can be assigned to a unit on a permanent basis (if required)
1 Lance (rare -on important worlds only) (3B/G-R/R) Flea Mech 15 ton - 2 Sm Lasers or 1 Md
Laser
1st Battalion - 2 Armor Coy + 1 Missile Support Coy
2nd Battalion - Either Motorized, air-mobile, or jump-capable infantry.
3rd Battalion - Either Motorized, air-mobile, or jump-capable infantry.
Vehicles - APC (All Types), Scorpion, Vedette, Striker, AC2 Carrier (AA Varient), Po.
Home Guard - Air Force Reserve
1st Squadron - (3S/G-R/R) VTOL / Reconnaissance Prop Aircraft
2nd Squadron - Conventional Fighter
3rd Squadron - Conventional Fighter
Vehicles - All VTOL / conventional fighters
Home Guard - Support Units
1st Battalion - (4B/G/R) Logistical, Ordinance, Infantry Support
2nd Battalion - Logistical, Ordinance, Infantry Support
3rd Battalion - Mech Support
4th Battalion - Engineering / MASH Support
1st Squadron - Air Transport
Vehicles - All available support vehicles
Militia Guard
Militia Guard (? /G/ ?) Complement, training and equipment varies world to world. Either Motorized Infantry or Infantry.
Mercenary - Chartered
Northwind Highlanders
Highland Armored Infantry (3B/V/R) 9 Hv Coy + 1 Armor Regiment + 1 Infantry Regiment + 1 Aerospace Squadron Ostol, Catapult + Various Others Fletcher
Scots Greys Highlanders (Fusiliers) (2B/V/R) 6 Lt-Med Coy Commando, Vindicator + Various Others Tigress
Highland Light Infantry (3B/V/R) 9Md Coy + 1 Armor Regiment + 1 Infantry Regiment + 1 Aerospace Squadron Blackjack, Vindicator + Various Others Elgin
Argyll Highlanders (Light Horse) (2B/V/R) 6 Lt Coy Commando, wasp + Vaious Others Aldebaran
McCarron's Armored Cavalry
1st Regiment (3B/E/F) 3 Lt-Md Coy, 3 Md-Hv Coy, 3 Hv Coy + 2 Recon Vehicle Coy + 1 Infantry Coy Various Others Styk
2nd Regiment (3B/E/F) 4 Lt-Md Coy, 4 Hv-At Coy + 2 Recon Vehicle Coy + 1 Infantry Coy Various Others Corey
3rd Regiment (3B/R/R) 3 Lt Coy, 5 Md Coy, 1 Hv Coy + 2 Recon Vehicle Coy + 1 Infantry Coy Various Others Ingersoll
4th Regiment (3B/V/R) 3 Lt Coy, 3 Md Coy, 3 Hv Coy + 2 Recon Vehicle Coy + 1 Infantry Coy Various Others Capella
5th Regiment (3B/V/R) 1 Lt Coy, 3 Md Coy, 5 Hv Coy + 2 Recon Vehicle Coy + 1 Infantry Coy Various Others Brighton
Hampton's Hessens
1st New Hessen Irregulars (3B/R/R) 9 Lt-Md Coy Locust, Commando + Various Others Betelgeuse
2nd New Hessen Irregulars (3B/R/R) 9 Lt-Md Coy Locust, Commando + Various Others Betelgeuse
New Hessen Armored Scouts (3B/R/R) 9 Lt-Md Coy Locust, Commando + Various Others Exedor
St. Cyr's Armored Grenadiers
St. Cyr's Armored Grenadiers (1B/G/R) 9 Lt-Md Coy Commando, Hunchback + Various Others Saiph
Marshigama's Legionnaires
Marshigama's Legionnaires (1C/V/F) 1 Lt-At Coy Scorpion, Goliath + Various Others Glasgow
Mercenary - Unchartered
Laurel's Legion
Laurel's Legion (1B/R/R) 9 Lt-Md Coy Locust, Vindicator + Various Others Epsiilon Eridani
Bullard's Armored Cavalry
Bullard's Armored Cavalry (1B/G/Q) 9 Lt-Md Coy Assassin, Wolverine + Various Others Zanzibar
Ambermarle's Highlanders
Ambermarle's Highlanders (1B/R/R) 6 Lt Coy, 3 Hv Coy Locust, Ostroc + Various Others Turin
15th Dracon
15th Dracon 1st Regiment (1B/R/R) 9 Md-Hv Coy Centurion, Rifleman + Various Others Gei-Fu
15th Dracon 2nd Regiment (1B/R/R) 9 Md-Hv Coy Centurion, Rifleman + Various Others Gei-Fu
4th Tau Ceti Rangers
4th Tau Ceti Rangers (1B/V/R) 9 Md-Hv Coy + 1 Rein-Squadron Aerospace Vindicator, Marauder + Various Others Hustaing
4th Tau Ceti Rangers (1B/V/R) 9 Md-Hv Coy + 1 Rein-Squadron Aerospace Vindicator, Marauder + Various Others Hustaing
Rivaldi's Hussars
Rivaldi's Hussars (1B/G/R) 9 Md-Hv Coy Blackjack, Grasshopper + Various Others Holloway
Lockhardt's Ironsides
Lockhardt's Ironsides (1B/R/R) 9 Md-Hv Coy Vindicator, Warhammer + Various Others Altorra
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Edited by Requiem (06/23/21 04:10 AM)
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Requiem
06/24/21 10:06 PM
1.158.147.1
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Reserve Guard Units per World
Example: Krin
Population: 2,272,600,000
Socio-Industrial Level: B-B-C-C-C
Advanced World, Moderately Industrialized, self-sustaining, limited output, modest agriculture
So how is this information used to create a planetary garrison – TO&E?
1st Planetary Info – “Krin is the home of a CCAF Duchy RTC” – refer
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Duchy_Regional_Training_Centers
Without a Regional Training Centre, the ability to train thousands of volunteers into a sizeable military becomes extremely limited. Any world not on this list, therefore, should be unable to create a military force – they will only be able to create a militia force of little to no real military worth.
The size of each military however should be derived by economics …. GM to determine per world but on average my suggestion would be … to refer to the above RTC table and apply it to its SIL letter code.
SIL-A – High-tech world
Mech – 1 Battalion of light Mechs – Primarily Flea
Aerospace Fighter – 2-4 Squadrons – Primarily – Cheetah and Thrush
Armor – 14-28 Regiments
Conventional Fighters – 16-32 squadrons
Infantry (including Para and Jump Units) – 27-54 Regiments
Access to all CCAF weapons noted above under Armor, Support, Conventional, VTOL
All infantry weapons and support equipment.
SIL-B – Advanced world
Mech – 1 Company of light Mechs – Primarily Flea
Aerospace Fighter – 1-2 Squadron(s) – Primarily – Cheetah and Thrush
Armor – 9-18 Regiments
Conventional Fighters – 8-16 Squadrons
Infantry (including Para and Jump Units) – 18-36 Regiments
Moderate access to CCAF weapons noted above
Armor - APC, Pegasus, Galleon, Scorpion, Magi, Vedette, AC2 Carrier, Manticore, Striker
Support – Logistics, Ordinance Transport, Infantry Support, Engineering, Mash
Conventional Aircraft – Guardian, Defender, Crane, Mech-buster, Yangtze Air Transport, Boomerang
VTOL -Marten, Warrior
All infantry weapons and support equipment.
SIL-C Moderately advanced World
Armor – 6-12 Regiments
Conventional Fighters – 4-8 Squadrons
Infantry (including Para and Jump Units) – 12-24 Regiments
Limited access to CCAF weapons noted above
Armor - APC, Galleon, Scorpion, Magi
Support – Logistics, Ordinance Transport, Infantry Support, Engineering, Mash
Conventional Aircraft – Guardian, Yangtze Air Transport, Boomerang
VTOL -Marten
limited infantry support weapon systems
SIL-D Lower-tech world
Armor – 4-8 Regiments
Conventional Fighters – 1-2 Squadron(s)
Infantry (including Para and Jump Units) – 8-16 Regiments
Extremely limited access to CCAF weapons noted above
Armor - APC, Magi
Support – Logistics, Ordinance Transport, Infantry Support, Engineering, Mash
Conventional Aircraft – Boomerang
VTOL -Nil
Basic Infantry Equipment
And we then have the regular CCAF world garrison units.
Militia – civilians with what is on hand.
So Now I Have a map of the Confederation on a pin board – in which important worlds have been coloured in - to indicate Military Industrial Complexes (red), Secondary targets (yellow), highly populated worlds (light blue) and Logistical Procurement / Military Bases for reserve units (green) – and those that do not have a colour indicate worlds of no military / strategic value (civilian target – not worth attacking during an invasion).
Then with a multitude of different colour pins – each indicating Honour Unit, Special Forces, Warrior Houses, Regular Forces and Merc’s I have assigned the entire CCAF forces – will use this later to determine attack strategy.
We also have the regular forces per world to contend with … when we revie the Regional Training Centre worlds per important world etc …
This will then hope-fully provide the military backdrop for the invasion of each world …
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Edited by Requiem (06/24/21 10:19 PM)
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Requiem
06/25/21 03:19 AM
1.158.147.1
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Note – Worlds with a Regional Training Centre would indicate a regular planetary army – armed with conventional forces.
The list is located at - https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Duchy_Regional_Training_Centers
However, this is by no way accurate (in my opinion) the following worlds should have a dedicated regular army garrison …
A
Epsilon Eridani – A – 2.5 Billion
Nanking – A – 5.9 Billion
Tikonov – A – 5.3 Billion
Aldebaran – A – 4.3 Billion
Sarna – A – 2.6 Billion
Ares – A – 4.2 Billion
Capella – A – 5.4 Billion
St. Ives – A – 5.6 Billion
Warlock – A – 4.1 Billion
Texlos – A – 4.2 Billion
Sian – A – 4.8 Billion
Grand Base – A – 3.5 Billion
Menke – A – 4.5 Billion
Victoria – A – 1.4 Billion
B
Keid – B – 4.6 Billion
Fletcher – B – 2.4 Billion
Hall – B – 2.4 Billion
Elgin – B – 5.5 Billion
Hsien – B – 3 Billion
Tigress – B – 3.3 Billion
Bharat – B – 1.8 Billion
New Hessen – B – 2.1 Billion
Tall Trees – B – 0.9 Billion
Zurich – B – 1.8 Billion
Styk – B – 4.7 Billion
Highspire – B – 1.2 Billion
Wei – B- 2.9 Billion
Corey – B – 2.1 Billion
Old Kentucky B – 0.8 Billion
Raballa – B – 3.9 Billion
Ingersoll – B – 3.4 Billion
Bithinia – B – 3.3 Billion
Gei-Fu – B – 2.1 Billion
Brighton – B – 4 Billion
Vestallas – B – 3.6 Billion
Indicass – B - ? Billion
Krin – B – 2.3 Billion
Housekarle – B – 2 Billion
Betelgeuse – B – 3.8 Billion
Sigma Mare – B – 2.9 Billion
Buenos Aires – B – 2.2 Billion
Barras – B – 4.5 Billion
Zanzibar – B – 1.5 Billion
Principia – B – 3.3 Billion
C
Algol – C – 3 Billion
Ovan – C – 5.2 Billion
Kashilla – C – 1.8 Billion
Denbar – C - ? Billion
Altorra – C – 1 Billion
Westerhand – C – 1 Billion
Harloc - C – 0.7 Billion
Hustaing – C – 2.3 Billion
Decatur – C – 1.4 Billion
Egress – C – 2.8 Billion
Drozan – C – 4.8 Billion
Turin – C – 3.3 Billion
Shiba – C – 2 Billion
Ward – C – 1.6 Billion
D
Rollis – D – low population - Garrison transferred from closest world.
Small World – Garrison transferred from closest world.
Azha – Garrison transferred from closest world.
Saiph – Garrison transferred from closest world.
Pleione – Garrison transferred from closest world.
Shensi – Garrison transferred from closest world.
St. Andre – Garrison transferred from closest world.
Tsingtao – Garrison transferred from closest world.
Quemoy – Garrison transferred from closest world.
Tsinghai – Garrison transferred from closest world.
Camperton – Garrison transferred from closest world.
Necromo – Garrison transferred from closest world.
Glasgow – Garrison transferred from closest world.
Wright – Garrison transferred from closest world.
Gunthar – Garrison transferred from closest world.
Sarmaxa - ? - ? Billion
Overton – ? - ? Billion
Boardwalk - ? - ? Billion
Exedor – Remove from list?
Sax - ? - ? Billion – Remove from list?.
The number of Regiments / Squadrons / Wings etc as noted above is a VERY conservative figure – depending on the world – and considering I am attempting to be more realistic an increase factor considered.
Thus, I am considering that the above conservative figure should be increased by the population of the world in Billions to one decimal place (excluding ‘Mechs and aerospace fighters) – and rounded to the rearrest 0.5
ie. for Keid – B – 4.6 Billion
SIL-B – Advanced world
Mech – 1 Company of light Mechs – Primarily Flea … remains at 1 company
Aerospace Fighter – 1-2 Squadron(s) – Primarily – Cheetah and Thrush … remains at 1-2 Squadron(s)
Armor – 9-18 Regiments … increased to 41.5-83 Regiments
Conventional Fighters – 8-16 Squadrons … increased to 37-74 Squadrons
Infantry (including Para and Jump Units) – 18-36 Regiments … increased to 83 to 166 Regiments.
(Nt Infantry alone at 3,000 people (approx..) per regiment and 166 Regiments (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Inner_Sphere_Military)
This equates to 0.0109% of the total population of the world – can be considered reasonable.
As for the Armor – Conventional Fighters and all Infantry equipment this can be considered made on their respective world. This will therefore necessitate an attack by the invading army.
It should be pointed out, however, that without jump-ship and Drop-ship support these military forces are marooned upon their respective world – and given the limited space upon dropships their ability to affect battles upon other worlds becomes questionable.
This will therefore drive invasion strategies going forward.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
06/25/21 03:54 AM
1.158.147.1
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Once the conclusion is made, that individual worlds can have a vast conventional army on their own – an attacking army must also have a vast conventional force when attacking.
Suggestion – Military Versions of the largest Dropships – Behemoth 100,000 – Mammoth 52,000 – who are utilized to transfer vast quantities of conventional forces to the front Line – They will therefore need a complement of support dropships to transfer men and material to the target world in question.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
06/25/21 11:48 AM
45.51.181.83
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I have been ignoring this for the most part, but there is a large issue with trying to convert the Behemoth and Mammoth into troop transports. The life support structure would reduce the ships capacity by a bit. It would also open up those ships for attack as they would go from cargo carrying to threat.
It was only the last post that caught my attention with the dropship issue.
Another issue has arisen from the Behemoth idea, is that you will need a large shuttle bay in order to carry them all to the surface as the Behemoth can not land on planets. Granted, this is not as bad as requiring a fleet of other infantry dropships, but it is yet another issue that will reduce the cargo capacity of the ship.
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Requiem
06/25/21 06:26 PM
1.158.147.1
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First, in the event these ships are converted into a ‘conventional weapons transport’ the life support structure would also be upgraded at the same time.
Second, troop transports have always been protected by a screening force – in this case dropships (Avenger, Union, Overlord etc.) and aerospace fighters.
Third, there is no need for an enlarged shuttle bay – the utilization of shuttles would require a vast amount of time to transport all conventional fighters to the ground and would be vulnerable to aerospace / conventional fighter attack – hence there is no need to reduce the cargo capacity of the ship – what is required is multiple external ship-to-ship conduits (similar to a Jump-ship attachment?) – multiple egress tunnels that can be pressurised and connected to multiple dropships in space that will then be used to transport the conventional forces to surface en-masse – ie using a Hercules, Seeker etc.
Suggest looking at the USS Pierce (APA-50) an Ormby-Class Attack Transport and their landing craft used to convey a landing force (infantry and vehicles) from the sea to the shore during an amphibious assault.
Plus utilizing large landing craft enables the General in charge to establish multiple bases over the world within a short period of time – greater tactical and strategic flexibility when attacking a world whose size can be considered immense and has multiple primary and secondary objectives.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Pierce_(APA-50)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_transport#Classification
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing_craft
Any world assault will require massive bases to be established quickly and efficiently – for example runways for conventional fighters – dominance of the sky over your bases would be essential to any successful invasion - thus getting them on ground and then into the air (with a re-fuelling tanker and an AWACS) should be required as promptly as possible.
Logistics points will also ne necessary …. storage and distribution … etc
Suggest revising Operation Overlord and Neptune to convey the complexity of a assault of this scale – multiple D-Day landings simultaneously over a single world!
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Edited by Requiem (06/25/21 06:43 PM)
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ghostrider
06/25/21 07:09 PM
45.51.181.83
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multiple D-Day landings simultaneously over a single world!
That statement explains why you need a large transport bay for your infantry. They will need multiple transports to land those very infantry around the world in mass numbers as almost the same exact time.
Unless you plan on having an empty Vengeance or some of the fighter carry, bringing in the transports. Which does nothing to help load them up with personnel from the ships.
The ships would have to have a major overhaul, as they are not really set up for anything other then large open cargo areas.
The Behemoth does have in the fluff issues of trying to use full power to thrust, causing structural stress that weakens the IS of it.
This is not saying it can not be done. You would probably, and I say probably, have to redesign it from the ground up, in order to transport troops. There is a lot of support items needed for troops that most forget when dealing with a refit. Water and food storage for them is a big one, with bathroom facilities, bunks, recreation and training being another.
Once done right, they would make a good bulk transport of personnel.
The assertation of having the ship guarded by assault ships might be true in your vision, but in most campaigns, it is very probable they are sent out on their own, or with a few mech carriers that are part of the assault unit stationed on the ships.
As the thread recently seems to be trying to tell others how the canon game should be set up, just remember they are not the same as your version. It trying to reach the masses, move away from the land of plenty, and it will allow more to even think about it.
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Requiem
06/26/21 12:51 AM
1.158.147.1
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The need of a large transport bay for infantry … they will need multiple transports to land around the world in mass numbers … at the same time.
Which transport are you suggesting?
First, these transports are transporting all types of conventional vehicles plus infantry so why waste space on multiple transports when a dropship can do the same job and more efficiently … also can any of your suggested transports that will convey my vehicles weighing a max amount of 100 tons each?
Second, which transports were you considering? As this would dictate the number of round trips required Vs one / two with multiple dropships …. Pus using this strategy seems like you are going to put the troops on world in piecemeal fashion rather than as one dedicated force that can establish a perimeter whist the engineers establish the runway and all transportable buildings etc for their LZ.
Third, how protected is transport you are suggesting using Vs a dropship to aerospace and conventional fighter attack? Thus how many do you believe will be lost in just attempting to land the troops Vs Dropships – also multiple losses will case mass problems, with logistics as well as the time line when invading the planet – ie it will put you forces behind the clock very quickly in comparison to using dropships.
Fourth are their any landing restrictions for the craft you are suggesting – ie do they need a runway in comparison to any filed a dropship requires? Strategically and Tactically this may put the forces behind the 8 ball from word one!
Also from a luxury liner point of view (just look at the size of cruise ships now!) where mass number of people is required to make the trip financially viable wouldn’t this necessitate the requirement for a larger dropship that can carry thousands to even ten’s of thousands than that of one that can only take a couple of hundred?
Thus wouldn’t the construction company look for new markets (diversification of market opportunities) for its dropships from just a cargo transport – limited market few clients to that of military and civilian mass transport of people and goods – more clients more profitability for the company!
As for the Behemoth’s structural weakness – pin point loading on the frame caused by massive weight evenly distributed over the hull (ie cargo transport) Vs cruise liner – Tax office 20 years for cargo ship Vs cruise ships 30 years – thus the structural weakness is not an issue with regards to converting to a transport vessel.
Guarding the Ships – as their primary use is for planetary invasions this would necessitate being assigned to a RCT who’s job it is to execute planetary invasions – and by extension would indicate they are protected at all times!
Last paragraph – sorry I do not understand please explain.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
06/26/21 08:40 AM
1.158.147.1
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The only vessel within the Sarna Small Craft list … is …
Mark VII Landing Craft
Military Shuttlecraft – cargo transport
It is used for transporting cargo from orbit to planet-side battlefields. This does not say how it returns to space – therefore, I would like to question how this military shuttlecraft is expected to return into space without a booster system and a special gantry system to place it on a launching pad (Similar to the current shuttles used).
However, this shuttlecraft utilizes a VTOL system to hover – to land in rough terrain, being a plus – but with only 10 tons of fuel – the craft will require re-fuelling once on on-land to continue being operational.
13 tons standard armor - 6 Md Lasers and 2 Sm Lasers - Thus making it vulnerable to a majority of aerospace fighters the enemy may possess.
The ship also has a single large (14m long by 8m wide by 5m tall) 67.44 ton cargo space – thus restricting the transport of a single vehicle to the battlefield – of a certain size and tonnage.
When undertaking any planetary invasion – utilizing these vessels – would require a massive number of ships.
For one Seeker Dropship – this will require an equivalent number of 70+ Landing Craft.
So how many Vengeance Class ships would be required to transport these to the invasion? And rather than containing aerospace fighters they must be packed with these Landing Craft.
Thus, a massive waste of resources when trading aerospace fighters for landing craft.
Efficient and effective planetary invasions require Dropships that can be used to transport massive numbers planet side – that can then return and be re-equipped for further invasion runs containing reinforcements – plus they are armoured and armed to withstand an aerospace assault …
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
06/26/21 12:57 PM
45.51.181.83
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Have you read anything about transferring things from ship to ship in space or orbit? Yes, having a dropship to bring down units is safer then transports, but moving them from something like a Behemoth to say an Intruder is not something that is easy or safe. This is even more true with vehicles being transferred.
It appears your response is based on using the units you are bringing on the huge cargo vessels in the primary assault on the world, yet you suggest they have to transfer to other ships to be moved. I am going to assume you are not bringing empty combat dropships so you can fill them up once you get into system. So you will have to return to orbit in order to refill those ships. Those dropships will take a while to refill, which means the entire operation is at risk from the defenders.
Designing something akin to mini drop ships, like the cargo ships would allow you do bring down an assortment of units and spread them out while doing so. As these troops would be more for reinforcing areas that are weak or have heavy losses, you could do more then land a dropship in one location and try to get the units to the front line where they are needed.
Also, even a fleet of shuttles is easier to hide then a large dropship, so that helps negate the attack issues. And this is also suggesting your dropship hasn't been heavily damaged or destroyed.
Use your own history lessons about D-Day and supplies. They did not beach the large cargo ships in order to unload or supply the troops during the initial landings.
With the example you supplied, why not just bring additional dropships made for infantry and troops and leave out the expenses of having to convert the larger ships? The two large cargo ships are not very well armed or armored.
As the thread has been about how canon should be, and trying to promote your thoughts, you need to stick to the canon concepts of the story of the IS. You want massive dropship invasions, then play the time just after the SL fell. The 3000 to even the clan invasions did not have the 100+ ship invasions for the most part. The 4th war was an exception. It was planned out to be like the first phase of the 1st succession war. If the IS had the fleets you envision, then there would be no simple raids. Everything would be invasions. And the worlds would be far more damaged then they are in the story line. Border worlds would only be military bases, as any sort of industry would be wiped out with each attack on the world.
And there is a tactic you seem to be leaving out with the shuttles. A mixture of aerofighters in with the landing fleet can give you an advantage of taking down enemy aircraft that was held back to hit a landing force like this. Even ones that are cargo ships that have their cargo space turned into weapon bays.
Another thing that seems to be missing, is the extreme amounts of ships would also mean your enemy would (should) have that as well. The big, plump cargo dropships would mean massive financial losses, not to mention units, if they were destroyed.
The large cargo ships would be there for reinforcements, not primary attack units.
And how do any cargo shuttles get back into orbit? They fly, like every other ship. Not sure why this was even asked.
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Requiem
06/26/21 07:35 PM
1.158.147.1
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First Behemoth class dock with orbital cargo stations – Docking Collars
So how does any dropship dock with a Space Station in order to transport over its cargo? Same principle here – rather than docking with a space station – docking with another dropship to transfer over cargo and men – docking collar
So the concept and the practice is well established and safe.
The concept of utilizing shuttles for war is obsolete! Except for special forces … for regular forces efficiency and effectiveness is key – if I can save dropship places on a jumpship then I can transfer larger quantities of regiments to the front line quicker …
This is a good thing!
Quote:
you will have to return to orbit in order to refill those ships. Those dropships will take a while to refill, which means the entire operation is at risk from the defenders.
Axiom – Dependent upon forces utilized. Also you can leave one dropship behind if necessary – a Fortress would be handy.
Quote:
Designing something akin to mini drop ships, like the cargo ships would allow you do bring down an assortment of units and spread them out while doing so.
True – However, do the current rules allow for such a new vessel? And how long will it take to create such a vessel – also can it re-enter space on its own or is it stuck on the ground – limiting its effective use.
Also the issue of the number required to equal one dropship is still a consideration – so again how many Vengeance class sips do I have to sacrifice in order to bring along an effective planetary invasion of shuttles.
Also, if shuttles are so great in conducting planetary invasions when was the last record of any House / Clan made in using them in a planetary invasion?
Quote:
a fleet of shuttles is easier to hide then a large dropship
Axiom – this is a planetary invasion once the ships were detected entering the system every radar / security sensor system is now operational.
Quote:
Use your own history lessons about D-Day and supplies. They did not beach the large cargo ships in order to unload or supply the troops during the initial landings.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulberry_harbour
used for 10 months – 2.5 million men – 500,000 vessels, 4 million tons of supplies
This is why large ships like these are used – they ae the most efficient means of conducting a planetary invasion – as well as e-supplying them!
Quote:
two large cargo ships are not very well armed or armored.
When building a ship for military use do you use the same schematics as a civilian ship or do you redesign the entire ship so that it meets military specifications? ie. the ship has been built to meet military specifications – massive armour as well as AA deflection batteries …
Quote:
As the thread has been about how canon should be, and trying to promote your thoughts, you need to stick to the canon concepts of the story of the IS.
Title of thread – ALTERNATE HISTORY
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any sort of industry would be wiped out with each attack on the world.
Legitimate military targets – not civilian …. Refer to the rules of land based warfare!
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A mixture of aerofighters in with the landing fleet can give you an advantage
And what happens if the have multiple squadrons and one keeps the fighters busy while the other kills off the defenceless shuttles?
Survival depends upon many factors – and the best chance a unit has for surviving is by using a dropship!
Quote:
the extreme amounts of ships
I am discussing efficient use of resources not massive number of ships – if one side has a massive number then the other side also has a massive number to protect them – thus survival is dependent upon who can gain the sky first …
Quote:
large cargo ships would be there for reinforcements, not primary attack units.
I disagree as stated above re ww2 ship – Pierce
Quote:
And how do any cargo shuttles get back into orbit? They fly, like every other ship. Not sure why this was even asked.
Physics would say otherwise – can the shuttles made today reach space all on their own without a booster rocket?
Where is it stated that these shuttles have that kind of ability? If so then every civilian conventional fighter must also be considered to have this ability and can therefore fight in space up to a certain distance from the planet – dependent upon their fuel quantity.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
06/26/21 09:05 PM
45.51.181.83
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It is my understanding that the Behemoth uses it shuttles to transfer items to stations or LANDS on the station, no docking collar. I believe the only time the Behemoth uses the docking collar is with jumpships. Granted, this is probably the normal method, as to avoid damage to either things, as maneuvering collar to collar docking is very dangerous, especially when both units are moving.
Why leave a dropship in orbit, when the forces on that dropship could be used on the ground? And a Fortress dropship would be better used as a strong point then a hauler. An Excalibur would probably be better for using as a shuttle type.
There is no need to use a Vengeance carrier to haul shuttles. Plus according to you, there are so many of those ships around, what is the problem with having one or two being CAP dropships for supply ships? You are NOT using most of the forces in the Behemoth for the main invasion push. They are probably going to be garrison/reinforcements. Otherwise, your super abundant supplies of jumpships wouldn't be affected if you brought in another monolith's worth of dropships.
Why do you think they build a makeshift dropzone? If they can't take a normal space port quickly, they bring down supplies in the make shift one. Some ships are grounded and used for the supply depots. And the ships used in the WWII scenario were NOT beached. They were anchored. This was done AFTER the initial invasion forces took the beach. They did not do this as part of the hitting the beaches. And with the 10 months, why didn't those troops hit the beaches with the initial wave? This is the same argument being said about using the Behemoth as an transport. Timing is the key here. Something that seems to be missing from the response.
Now there is a way to shut down the argument. Make your own ships, not just convert two of the biggest cargo ships in the game. This removed the whole issue of using cargo ships as military transports for the initial invasion.
And still don't know why you think shuttles can't land and return to space.
You believe that invaders would not be gunning for industries in an invasion? Especially military application units would be the first to go, if the enemy could hit them, unless they are trying to take those facilities. Raids are designed to remove the ability of the enemy to wage war. You might think that a single accord would stop this, but it hasn't in the past, nor will it in the future. There is NO one that can enforce such a deal. Even Comstar in canon used these tactics to take out factories and such. Using mercs as pirates, but they still did so.
What if the enemy has warships and wipes out your entire assault force in seconds? Launching nukes like they were AMS shot? The very argument of fighters being used to take out enemy fighters and DROPSHIPS is where most shuttles will be less of a target. Unless you have been known to use shuttles to drop bombs.
Ok. I will mock the excuse of todays ships not working like the ships in the game. ANYTHING that can land and is space worthy and has a sustained thrust of 3 or more can make orbit. That is a rule in the game. What good are SPACE SHUTTLES if they can't return to orbit? The busses can not land, nor can emergency landing pods, but shuttles are designed to land and get back up. Even fully loaded, as that is part of their weight settings. Overloaded would be questioned.
Are you getting drop pods confused with shuttles? Or did you forget the rules dealing with these vessels?
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Requiem
06/27/21 05:00 AM
1.158.147.1
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Technical Readout 3057 Dropships, Jumpships & Warships – pg. 68 Behemoth
“… Instead, it either docks with an orbital cargo station or uses shuttles to move its cargo to a planet’s surface.”
Quote:
Why leave a dropship in orbit, when the forces on that dropship could be used on the ground?
This is why they are transported on-ground asap via a military dropship insertion.
As for the use of an Excalibur – this is the point I am attempting to make – Planetary Assault begins - The Excalibur lands – all personnel / vehicles etc disembark – it then returns to space – docks with behemoth is re-fuelled and a new complement of vehicles / infantry is embarked onto the Excalibur – once complete the Excalibur makes its second run down to the planet and the process is repeated until the complete force upon the Behemoth has been completed
ie an efficient use of dropship assets to transfer the maximum number of regiments to a planetary invasion.
This is the point they are perfect as a mass troop transport carrier where a massive number of vehicle and infantry units are required.
I would also like to add the point that a Behemoth may also be a hospital ship (given its size) – thus all casualties on planet once treated by a MASH unit can be sent to a drop-ship site for transfer to this multi-purpose ship – ie Hospital, Troop / Vehicle carrier etc …..
Quote:
Timing is the key here
No, available resources are the key here – every ship that could be scaped up was used – there was no more room available – thus over time they scheduled additional forces to make the jump as quickly and efficiently as possible to increase the number of forces as rapidly as possible so that they could be assigned to the front lines as quicky as possible.
This is the point – the efficient and effective transport of the maximum number of regiments as possible
Excalibur 16,000 tons – One Jumpship Docking Collar; Behemoth 100,000 tons – for the same one Jumpship Docking Collar I now have the potential of transporting SIX Excalibur complements to the front line.
And in so doing I can free up how many Jumpships to undertake other assignments for a war … thus throwing the enemy into chaos as to the number of worlds that I am targeting in a single wave ….
A point that is not appreciated!
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You believe that invaders would not be gunning for industries in an invasion?
Military yes – Civilian no … that is unless you want to be brought up on war crimes and also have the footage used as propaganda against your force’s invasion.
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You might think that a single accord would stop this, but it hasn't in the past, nor will it in the future
And yet this is exactly why the ‘certain countries of note’ will not sign the present accords as they know they will be enforced by International Court of Justice - just as they have been on other countries …. consider MH17 trial.
Quote:
There is NO one that can enforce such a deal.
Except for the JAG unit for each House military – FS, LC and FWL will have such individuals brough before bench – the CC and DC will probably give them a promotion. However, such actions will be documented and used as propaganda against these individuals and their Houses.
Quote:
What if the enemy has warships and wipes out your entire assault force in seconds?
This is the 4th Succession War – thus they do not exist!
That said – in the future they will be protected by their own warships / vengeance carriers and nuclear missiles who will attempt to keep them at distance.
Then there is the option of running away – the velocity and the rules state that once they engage their drives to return to jump point the warship’s guns cannot hit them.
Also how many hoses use nukes during the 4th Succession War? This is not the 1st Succession War!
Even though the rules state that the shuttle can return to space due to rule that is supposed to be exclusive to Drop-ships – in reality, can they? Can the current shuttle be able to do so – they require booster rockets?
As soon as you recognise this rule then immediately a new form of fighter must be adopted by every House – the armed Shuttle – cheaper than an aerospace fighter yet more expensive than a conventional fighter and yet when armed they have the ability to strike at an invasion force en masse whist attempting to invade.
So where are these weapons as they not only make tactical sense, they also make financial sense?
Get enough fighters up and go for the engine’s plumes ….
Isn't this why the Vampire was made?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Edited by Requiem (06/27/21 05:04 AM)
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Requiem
06/27/21 05:11 AM
1.158.147.1
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As for the AFFS TO&E
BattleMech
Standard
Light 'Mechs
20 Locust Md Laser 2MG
20 Wasp Jump Md Laser SRM2
25 Commando SRM6 SRM4 Md Laser
30 Valkyrie Jump LRM10, Md Laser
30 Javelin Jump 2SRM6
Medium 'Mechs
40 Assassin Jump Md Laser LRM5 SRM2
40 Whitworth Jump 2LRM10 3Md Laser
45 Blackjack Jump 2lg Lasers 4 Md Lases
45 Hatchetman Jump AC10, 2Md Laser, Hatchet
45 Phoenix Hawk Jump Lg Laser 2Md Laser 2MG
50 Centurion AC10 LRM10
50 Enforcer Jump AC10 Lg Laser Sm Laser
55 Dervish Jump 2LRM10, 2Md Laser, 2, SRM2
55 Shadow Hawk AC5, LRM5, SRM2, Md Laser
55 Griffin Jump PPC LRM10
55 Wolverine Jump AC5, SRM6, Md Laser
Heavy 'Mechs
60 Ostsol 2Lg Lasers 4Md Lasers
65 Crusader Jump Lg Laser, 2LRM10, 4Md Laser
65 JagerMech 2Lg Lasers, 2Md Lasers, 2LRM 15
60 Rifleman 2Lg Laser, 2AC5, 2Md Laser
70 Grasshopper Jump Lg Laser, 4Md Lasers, LRM5
70 Warhammer 2PPC, SRM6, 2Md Laser, 2Sm Laser, 2MG
75 Marauder 2PPC, Lg Laser, 2Md Laser
Assault 'Mechs
80 Goliath PPC, 2LRM10, 2MG
80 Victor Jump AC20 2Md Lasers SRM4
85 Stalker 2LRM10 2Lg Laser 2Md Laser 2SRM6
100 Atlas AC20 LRM20 4Md Lasers SRM6
Limited Numbers
100 Marauder II 2PPC 2Md Lasers Lg Laser
Unable to Manufacture
35 Firebee Jump Lg Laser, 4SRM2
35 Toro PPC 2LRM5 (Primitive)
40 Swordsman LRM5 AC5 Md Laser (Primitive)
45 Wyvern Jump LRM10 Lg Laser 2Sm Lasers SRM6
50 Crab 2Lg Lasers, Md Laser, Sm Laser
65 Exterminator Jump LRM10, 4Md Laser, Sm Laser, AMS
65 Exterminator Crane Jump MASC Supercharger 2Md Pulse (Laser Insulator) AMS
70 Excalibur Gauss, LRM20-AFCs, AMS
75 Black Knight PPC 2Lg Laser 4Md Lasers 1 Sm Laser
80 Thug 2PPC 2SRM6
85 Longbow 2LRM20 2LRM5 2Md Laser
90 Emperor 2LB-X AC10, 2Lg Laser, 2 Md Pulse, 1 Md Laser
100 King Crab 2AC20, 1LRM15, 1Lg Laser
Industrial Mech
50 Jabberwocky EngineerMech
Exoskeleton
0.4 HeavyHauler - heavy-lifting and cargo handling
Armor
APC
10 APC (Tracked) - MG
10 APC (Wheeled) - 2MG
10 APC(Hover) - 2MG
20 APC (Heavy Wheeled) - 2MG
20 APC (Heavy Tracked) - 2MG
Cavalry - Reconnaissance
25 J. Edgar (Hover) Md Laser 2SRM2
35 Pegasus Scout Hovertank (Hover) 2SRM6 Md Laser
50 Condor (Hover) AC5 2Md Lasers MG
Infantry Support
20 Skulker Wheeled Scout Tank (Wheeled) Md Laser - Communications
35 Striker Light Tank (Wheeled) LRM10 SRM6
Support
60 LRM Carrier (Tracked) 3LRM20
60 SRM Carrier (Tracked) 10SRM6
Mobile Gun System - Support
Fire Support
25 Scorpion Light Tank (Tracked) - AC5 MG
40 Hetzer (Wheeled) AC20
45 Goblin (Tracked) Lg Laser, MG
50 Vedette Medium Tank (Tracked) AC5 MG
55 T-12 Tiger Medium Tank (Tracked)AC10 SRM4 3MG
60 Manticore (Tracked) PPC SRM6 LRM10 MD Laser
Main Battle
65 Patton Tank (Tracked) AC10 LRM5 Flamer Sm Laser
65 Rommel Tank (Tracked) AC20, LRM5, Sm Laser
80 Estevez Main Battle Tank (Tracked) Hv Rifle, MG, Vehicular Grenade Launchers
80 Demolisher Heavy Tank (Tracked) 2AC20
100 Behemoth Heavy Tank (Tracked) 2AC10, 4LRM5, 2SRM6, 4SRM2, 2MG
Artillery
95 Mobile Long Tom - Long Tom Artillery Piece, 4MG
Support
Logistics
3 Cargo Hauler (Wheeled)
10 Flatbed / Cargo Hauler (Wheeled)
50 Flatbed / Cargo Hauler (Wheeled)
Ordinance Transport
10 Ordinance Transport (Wheeled)
50 Ordinance Transport (Wheeled)
Infantry Support
8 Swift Wind Reconnaissance & Staff Car (Wheeled)
13 Darter Scout Car (Wheeled)
15 Mobile Commissary (Wheeled)
20 Packrat LRPV (Wheeled)
Hazmat Recovery Vehicle and DeConAid Trailer (Wheeled)
Mech Support
30 Coolant Truck (Wheeled)
30 Fuel Tanker (Tracked / Wheeled)
70 Transportable Field Repair Vehicle (Tracked)
50 Mech Recovery Vehicle (Wheeled)
70 Mech Recovery Vehicle (wheeled)
150 Recovery Vehicle & Salvage Bed (Tracked)
150 O-66 HMRV "Oppie" Recovery Vehicle and Salvage Bed
15 Mobile HQ (wheeled)
25 Mobile HQ (wheeled)
50 Mobile HQ (wheeled)
Engineering
10-40 Engineering Vehicle - Various (Tracked)
70 Engineering Support Vehicle (Tracked)
75 Combat Support Bridgelayer (Tracked)
MASH
50 MASH Truck (Wheeled)
20 Packrat Ambulance LRPV (Wheeled)
15 Marten Scout Ambulance VTOL (Unarmed)
Air Transport
30 Karnov UR Transport
50 Planetlifter Air Transport
200 Cargo Air Transport
Submarine
100 Neptune Lg Laser, LRT20, SRT6
250 Seahorse Cargo Sub 2LR Torpedo10 84.5tons cargo
Dirigible
35 Meteos Manned Dirigible
AeroSpace
25 Sabre 3Md Lasers
30 Centurion 3Md Lasers
30 Sparrowhawk 2Md Lasers 2Sm Lasers
45 Tomahawk 2Lg Laser, Sm Laser
50 Corsair 2Lg Laser 2Md Laser, 4Sm Laser
50 Lightning AC20 4Md Laser
55 Starfire Ultra AC/5 Md Laser Sm Laser
60 Hellcat 3Lg Lasers 5 Md Lasers
75 Eagle 3Lg Laser, 4Md Laser
100 Thunderbird 4Lg Laser, 3Md Lase, LRM 20, SRM4
100 Stuka 4Lg Lasers, 3Md Lasers LRM20 SRM4
Conventional
5 Boomerang - observation equipment
10 Comet SRM4
25 Defender 2SRM2 2LRM5
45 Meteor Heavy Strike Fighter AC10 SRM4
Obsolete
80 Mustang Fighter - Prototype AC10 4SRM4 (Primitive)
VTOL
5 Ferret Light Scout MG
10 Ripper 2Md Lasers
15 Marten SRM2
15 Marten Infantry
JumpShip
152,000 Invader
274,000 Star Lord
380,000 Monolith
Dropship
Military
1,400 Avenger
1,720 Leopard
1,720 Leopard CV
1,903 Gazelle
3,500 Union
3,700 Seeker
9,700 Overlod
10,000 Vengeance
Civilian
3,500 Buccaneer
5,000 Monarch
11,200 Mule
52,000 Mammoth
Sm Craft
200 K-1 DropShuttle - LRM5 Md Laser Sm Laser
Infantry
Small Arms & Persoal Weapons
Satellite
20 SatellSEU-193D StarComm - Communications Satellite
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
06/27/21 12:10 PM
45.51.181.83
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The narrative has changed. You said shuttles wouldn't work, as the troops on the large ships would be needed for the initial assault, yet said that a dropship would return to orbit in order to unload troops off the larger ships. This is why the larger ships troops would not be part of the initial invasion. The very point I was trying to get across. This is why most of the arguments get going.
The Mammoth is a good example of using jumpship collars to the best advantage, not a Behemoth. The fluff of the Behemoth says it is so large, that it takes up 2 spaces on a jumpship.
The issue with the war crimes is that there is NO ONE to enforce them. If there was, the DC would have been charged so many times without using nukes, it wouldn't be funny. All houses have done things that would be charged, but none of them are willing to try and condemn another, as what is the choice? War. The entire history of the succession wars is propaganda in the making. Each state would be fine with those across the IS in trying to bring down a state that has done something like poisoning water sources. It give them a chance to hit elsewhere and not worry about forces on their borders. Comstar would not even try to enforce anything, as they would be accused, and rightfully so, that they were trying to enforce their will on the states. Even if they didn't actively try, the fact that they would be seen as the ONLY ones that can hold others accountable would draw in masses for protection.
Given the game examples, the Sword of Light used poison in their attacks during the 4th war. The commander got a commadation for doing so from Takashi. So unless you are changing the entire way the houses work, this idea will not work. House Liao uses terror tactics, to keep others in line. So you concept of bombing and sniping the enemy falls within war crimes as well, especially when they are after non military personnel.
Since real life shuttles don't use fusion drives, the point is moot. Fuel reserves is the big issue at the moment for shuttles, but they can get into space without booster rockets. The issues is they don't fly to the edge of space, then leave from there. Also, if your concept is true, then dropships could not make orbit, as they don't have booster rockets. Speed 3 is speed 3 for all units. It doesn't change between different units.
And this fact is probably why the developers never wanted to have heavier gravity in the game as well. It would prevent ships from landing, on top of the other normal issues.
Making a larger ship to carry more troops without using up as many resources as having a fleet of ships is a good idea, and there are some after the invasion. The assault Triumph isn't that much larger, but it was an idea that would allow more mechs to be deployed without using the standard mech transports.
And learn the stats of ships before using them. Expanding the existing small craft bay on the Behemoth would allow more shuttles to be used. Also, since you are talking about having multiple Vengeance craft with you, you could always use the fighter bays on the other ships, like the 6 ships that go on an Overlord for the 'extra' shuttles needed.
A Leopard CV or even a Titan fighter carrier would be more then enough if you didn't expand the smallcraft bay.
Reread your own response about using a dropship for reloading. The items on the Behemoth are not used for the initial landing, as you have to return to orbit and load them onto the dropship that is landing.
The main thing that not using multiple shuttles does, is cut down on the fuel and number of pilots needed.
Those shuttles DO give you the ability to set forces down to where they are needed, instead of at the main landing zone.
And again, you suggest targeting multiple planets at once, which means you are suggesting they do not have the resources you do.
And last for now. A planetary governor is NOT going to be worried about invading other worlds. They will be focusing on protecting their own. So a fleet of jumpships to invade is not top priority. This is the highest most players will ever get to. Regional managers, such as a Polymorphious defense zone would be more worried about moving large scale forces. So the thread is a little off your planetary defense concept.
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Requiem
06/27/21 05:32 PM
1.158.147.1
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Conducting a planetary invasion does not require every unit arranged for the invasion to hit the beach simultaneously.
Where is it written that a Behemoth takes up 2 spaces – as it is not included in the 3057 Technical Readout.
The issue with war crimes is that it depends upon the era – it is about understand the conduct of war.
During the succession wars depends on pre / post Ares Conventions.
During the SL – the SLDF would hunt the Unit down and put them on trial.
It also depends upon which Succession War is being conducted, and every war there-after.
For Mercenaries there is a Court that will hold them accountable.
By the 4th Succession War Crimes are self-enforcing via each House’s JAG Unit – as stated CC and DC are the only two who don’t care as their media if controlled by the state – that said if captured they will be put on trial!
Question – did Hanse, Katrina or Janos allow his troops to use these tactics during the 4th Succession War?
The defeat of the enemy army is not the overarching aim, as what constitutes defeat? Conquest must be followed with occupation – and if conquest is unjust this will just lead to an unjust war in the future …. WW1 leading to WW2 … compare what President Wilson offered the Germans with the actual document.
In the beginning War Crimes were frowned upon, however, as the game developed over the years this restriction has been forgotten - to the detriment of the game. This is a major problem with the game going forward as the developers have allowed the conduct of any barbarous act without any repercussions – sooner or later the PC squad will take notice and the PR backlash could kill off the game.
Small Craft Ships require a constant supply of fuel in the form of liquid H2 - to which Dropships have storage tanks – question where are theirs once they have landed on planet and require re-fuelling before becoming operational again?
Question how many shuttles do you believe is enough and considering their cargo restrictions how much longer would it take to get the complement down onto the planet in comparison to that of a Dropship handover?
Dropships DO give you the ability to set forces down to where they are needed and in a more efficient and safer manner than that of a shuttle!
As this is the entire military of multiple houses attacking another House – jump ship fleets ARE a top priority within a Minette Operational Area.
It is the GMs duty to set the stage and to understand the players and to understand how they will react – thus when new orders or news form home arrives the players can react to what should be a believable story. The issue is that the cannon story forgot to take into consideration so many factors that a good majority of the battles and wars became unbelievable.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
06/27/21 06:10 PM
45.51.181.83
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This is in the wiki:
Because of its sheer size, the Behemoth suffers from a number of drawbacks including a relatively weak structure, incapability of atmospheric operations, and occupying (or blocking) a second hardpoint on JumpShips.
The original dropships and jumpships says something close to it, but you are correct in the fact the TRO:3057 book does not state this. But the TRO 3057 does state that the dropship is LARGER then many jumpships. So this limits just what jumpships can even move the Behemoth.
How many pirates did the SLDF actually take down? Most pirates commit war crimes as a routine operation. House units including the SLDF had committed war crimes and not been punished for it. This is part of why the periphery revolted. But I guess that requires comprehension that isn't fixated on a specific point of view.
Actually, ALL houses allowed their troops to commit war crimes, such as killing pilots that ejected, as well as executing wounded and such. Even those that surrendered were treated poorly, with some being tortured for more then just information. Your Comstar re-education camps during the invasion is a prime example.
You may want to reread the rules of thrust points and fuel. It does NOT require 10 tons to land and get back into space. Fighters launch from worlds and fight in close proximity to their worlds and return. Why would shuttles be any different as they use the same engines and thrusters?
What happens when the enemy finds a dropships heading some wheres? Anything that can be used, will be trying to take it down. A shuttle or even 5 will not get the same response. The enemy will send something to investigate, but it is unlikely to get the same response as a dropship.
And with all presented, you have shown why the game is stuck with making everything limited. I hate it, but if each battle was a full scale invasion with several RCTs per side, it comes down to numbers verse numbers. There is no real way for the players to decide the battle like they do when there is say even a single battalion on each side. A lot of the time, there are other forces with the players, but they are not seen. It is all back ground noise. A few adventure packs address this vaguely. This is why a small group of ships, like 4 Leopards are used to raid worlds. If everything was full strength, then there is no way this could do much, unless they can land without being detected. So you basically make the game so the only military option is full scale invasion.
And that also means any factories that can produce anything military is a target, wether they are a baby formula factory or a nuclear waste facility. There will ALWAYS be evidence that what they hit was making weapons or things that can be used in war, such as armor.
Hope this gives you something to think on, as I will probably ignore anything else.
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Requiem
06/28/21 07:14 AM
1.158.147.1
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This is also in the wiki:
No Design Quirks are expressly mentioned in the writeup for the Behemoth (neither in the most recent writeup in Technical Readout: 3057 Revised nor in any previous publication), as all publications detailing the Behemoth class predate the introduction of the Quirk rules.
As the 4th Succession War predates the Quirk rules, therefore, they do not apply in my opinion.
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House units including the SLDF had committed war crimes and not been punished for it.
Under the reign of Aleksandr Kerensky – this is correct prior to the Amaris War – 2760 a nuclear weapon is detonated which sparks a border war between the CC and FS – rather than intervene he does absolutely NOTHING.
Whereas
Ikolor Fredasa initiated operation smother (which Kerensky was a part) …
War crimes are dependent upon the era being played!
Flight times –
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/aerospa...hs2ekudhtc745dr
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What happens when the enemy finds a dropships heading some where else?
The answer to this is dependent upon the world you are on, whom the Garrison Commander is as well as the resources at their disposal.
With a full-scale invasion - the game is dependent upon how good your GM is ….
Identification of target and the action of the group is on the players ….
Any action will bring about an opposite action and if you commit a crime then yes a bounty will be put on you and the bounty hunter will be after you and your team!
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
06/28/21 12:49 PM
45.51.181.83
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Time frame for publication being the end of the Behemoth issue?
Then 3057 TRO doesn't apply as it can out far after then 4th war was over. The 3039 and clan invasion was over as well. So you want technical, there it is.
Oh yeah. It wasn't a quirk back then.
Using nukes isn't the only war crime there is. Simply sacking a city or even just a building has war crime penalties. Letting people die instead of reporting shortages, or worse, selling the items such as food, creating those shortages. Medicine being even more likely to be done. Simple physical punishment for no other reason then to invoke fear into the local population is another. I understand trying to move away from such things in a game, but sterilizing it removes the push for most to rise above the moral level and become the 'hero'.
So the link sends you to a discussion on a long range shuttle going form the jump point to a world. What does that have to do with landing and getting back into orbit? For spacecraft, the cargo capacity is part of the over all tonnage for the vehicle, meaning the stats for the unit is fully loaded. So a 100 ton unit flies at speed and distance with a full payload. Technically, it would gain speed and distance with no pay load, but no one wants to bother with the calculations. The 10 tons for that particular shuttle is move then enough to get from orbit to the ground and back again.
If you are using this to counter the land based fighters getting into a space battle, it still doesn't do much. They still perform the feat of launching, fighting and landing. Most do have an idea on just how much time they have for the battle. This is also assuming no orbital assets to land or get fuel from.
One point with bounties.
A village putting up 100k c-bills on a merc unit isn't going to get much in a response. The sheer costs of even trying to take out a lance is going to run up more in repair costs then it will cover. Some local punks thinking they are the best MIGHT try for it, but will more then likely not do more then take out a few people, if caught outside of their machines.
The poster of the bounty would have to put up a lot more in funds, which is unlikely depending on the crimes committed. If the unit sacked the city, there will not be much left to even attempt a bounty.
It is possible to post a bounty and renege on it when it is time to pay, which would probably cause another attack on them.
But as implied, the idea of using a larger ship to move troops isn't a bad one. It is just going to cost a bit for a refit, or a lot when designing a new one. Converting a Mammoth would probably be the biggest canon dropship that can land. A Behemoth's use would require those onboard not being part of the initial invasion unless shuttles are used.
As a side note, the Behemoth is what prompted the question of how large the K-F field can be expanded. This is why the BS of not being able to dock multiple ships in the field gets some traction.
Overall, the entire idea of having a full set of defenders on the worlds, as there should be, causes any sort of invasionary force outside of a multitude of worlds participating in it, shows it can't be done. Going on the generally same sized worlds, means you will have to strip your own world of forces, in order to have any hope of taking another world, and holding it. After years of being at war, replacing things just won't keep up with losses. This is why the enemy will NOT honor leaving any civilian industries alone, as you WILL change them over to military when your military factories are out of commission. Ether destroyed or just broken. Moral has something to do with it, but for each attack/counter attack, it will raise anything other then a full defeat into becoming more and more warlike, trying to get back at those that attacked them. This is the story of the IS from the succession wars. So many are bound to getting the enemy back, that most don't really care deeply into what started it. Just that they are the victors.
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Requiem
06/28/21 09:22 PM
1.158.147.1
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Sacking a city / building is not a war crime – it is just looting … normal penalties apply.
If interested suggest reading - Rome Statute of International Criminal Court – Article 8 – War Crimes.
Shuttles have absolutely no point on the battlefield unless inserting special forces …!
One point with bounties – depending on the crime (refer above) the amount could be substantial as it is not the building owner who puts up the bounty it is the State - US Department of State – War Crimes Rewards Program (WCRP) - $5Million. Though the largest to date is $25 million.
So, if this is used as a guide, is this an acceptable amount?
Again … with a Behemoth and Mammoth in a war zone … shuttles would NEVER be used for mass transport – only dropship-to-dropship transfer would be used via a docking collar as they are owned by a House – it is impossible for any civilian to own such a vessel that has been built as a troop transport – can any individual own a naval vessel currently?
Quote:
Going on the generally same sized worlds, means you will have to strip your own world of forces, in order to have any hope of taking another world, and holding it.
Both sides have massive regular army utilizing conventional forces just look at the populations on either sides worlds – so yes wars to take and hold individual planets should and can take years. Remember we are attacking a WORLD with a population in the BILLIONS – to put this in layman terms in this science fiction game it would be like conducting a land battle with two to three China’s or seven to ten Russia sized military forces on one world – so yes it should require a massive conventional invasion force and yes it should take a considerable amount of time.
The only way it can be quick is if both sides just have Mech and aerospace forces in the thousands of Regiments – thus each world could have 100 Mech Regiments each and they are attacked by a force also in the hundreds of Mech Regiments when you have populations in the billions …
The only time a single RCT should be considered is when utilized against a lightly defended world with a very low population.
Quote:
After years of being at war, replacing things just won't keep up with losses.
Sorry but no – consider how many worlds are within any given house and the population / SIL technological level for each of these worlds – in order to create this level of loss depletion nearly every important world would have to be attacked at the same time and at the same time the use of nukes would have be in prodigious level against every industrial complex on that world.
Quote:
This is why the enemy will NOT honour leaving any civilian industries alone, as you WILL change them over to military when your military factories are out of commission.
If it has reached this stage then you have already lost – the economy and he ability to fight on has reached the level of stupidity – Germany at the end when old men and boys were called up and it was decided to destroy everything!
What is occurring here has nothing to do with war and everything to do with Vengeance … history has a very poor view on such individuals.
Also the economic repercussions when it comes to rebuilding a world you have just conquered should be considered – as a House Lord you would want to conquer a world intact (or as near as possible) so that the economic cost of rebuilding is low to negligible. It is not as if you aim is just to wreck the place then leave it to the inhabitants.
Quote:
This is the story of the IS from the succession wars.
Not so – war has changed – from the prodigious use of BalleMechs, Aerospace Fighters, Warships and nukes / WMDs to banning them – from almost all BattleMech forces to combined arms – to mostly conventional …
What is the aim of conquering a planet? Isn’t is to use its assets and integrate its economy into your own so that the planet and its citizens ADD VALUE to your own House not reduce its value due to the cost of rebuilding.
Remember economics and logistics are a big part of war -as well as post war reconstruction efforts – thus military training should include a doctrine to limit the amount of damage.
War is no longer about vengeance – it is about obtaining a strategic objective whist minimizing the amount of damage involved.
A good example of this is David McCarthy – Kommandant First Kathil Uhlans / Huntress – Then on Kathil with the Kathil Capellan March Militia - remember what he taught his unit in regards to damage cost when he fought the members of his unit within the simulator?
He tried to show them that when fighting they should take into consideration the damage they cause on their surroundings when fighting.
This is the point – when it comes to regular forces in the future, they have gone through a period of mass damage (first succession war etc), and they have come out the other side – now wars are fought with damage minimisation in mind when it comes to fighting – Have a look at the Ares convention rules of war on land – as this backs this hypothesis up.
Why win every battle on every world fought and expand your empire in geographical area if it will take your realm the next 50 years to be in a position economically to continue the next succession war due to the reconstruction costs involved in repairing what you have conquered.
Pyrrhic victory economically is not what is required within the BattleTech Wars! Multiple succession wars are required if you want to be 1st Lord – and this can only be obtained if you absorb you enemies’ military industrial complex / citizens / worlds into your own and then use this to further your goal of expansion …
Mindless destruction is pointless!!!
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
06/29/21 12:00 AM
1.158.147.1
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Fourth Succession War – Prelude
In the event of an invasion the defending forces CO has three options with regards to reserve forces off-world
1. maintain existing military deployment location and do nothing due to an imminent and expected second wave.
2. reinforce existing worlds, under attack, with available local reserve forces.
3 use existing available local reserve forces to invade primary and secondary important worlds of your enemy – thus in the hope of forcing these attacking forces to retreat - to defend the home-worlds.
– though option 2 and 3 would be dependent upon their location and access to available transport – it would also be dependent upon the overall objectives of the House’s Leader.
The Allied Suns and Lyran invasion of Capellan, League and Combine Worlds on 20th August would have required years spent debating the viability of such a risky war. It would have been understood that any attempt to crack these three realms’ fortresses would be a chancy venture at best.
Hanse and Katrina, however, knew that they had no alternative if they were going to unite their two realms though what would be known in the future as the Terran Corridor – it was the obvious target – the question is when the marriage of Hanse and Melissa was made public why didn’t the Kurita, Liao and Marik militaries begin reinforcing their Cor-worlds Combat area surrounding Terra? As is it obvious that once these two are married the two realms will seek to unite their two realms physically with a Terran Corridor?
Between October 22nd, when the wedding is officially announced and 20th August you have 9 months to prepare – Question: Did any of these Houses move any of their forces in response – or as a response to Operation Galahad and Thor?
As, Operation Galahad and Thor commenced in August 27 and is a complete and unabashed fake (Hanse’s shell game) – one of the most elaborate deceptions in the history of warfare. As was utilized to establish the redistribution of military units for the upcoming 4th Succession War, the secret of which were managed by the Pony Express system of communication.
(NT – at the same time the first K-1 series Black Boxes are introduced as the first production model in the FedCom alliance) – Question – were / should these boxes be mass produced as both Hanse and Katrina did not trust ComStar (pony express)?
Timeline – October 22nd and 20 August all Houses should be reorganizing their military deployment deployments - Kurita, Liao and Marik will take time to determine and order redeployments – arrange for transport and new logistics etc – Thus they may not actually start until late December – early January – then factor in travel time ….
As the wedding is a set date it can be assumed every unit in movement would have final date to reach their new operational base prior to their House Lord’s journey to Terra.
This would therefore require of Steiner and Davion at this time, as their goal to lead the Marik, Liao and Kurita intelligence organisation that they would do the unexpected.
Thus Kurita, Liao and Marik must take all possible scenarios seriously …
Operation Bodyguard – Ensue the build-up of Davion and Steiner forces did not portend an invasion within the cor-world area. Whist simultaneously ensuring all primary and secondary important worlds are adequately defended.
The AFFC and the LCAF would have to be divided into offensive, defensive and reserve formations for the foreseeable succession war. Reserve and Mercenary units would have to be utilized to fill these gaps where necessary.
AFFS Worlds that require military protection considered to be primary / secondary targets by the CCAF / DCMS,
Military Industrial Complex worlds – 34 Worlds
Other Secondary Target Worlds – 22 Worlds
Other Highly Populated Worlds – 17 Worlds
Other Military Bases – 18 Wolds
Of them - interior worlds whose protection can be transferred to their planetary regular and Mech unit forces for the duration of the War – 17 Worlds.
Assigning Mech Forces to Military Industrial complex Worlds and secondary targets + a number of populated worlds close to the Front line – all others will be assigned one Battalion in Mech Forces
Total AFFS (3025) forces 115 Regiments 2 Battalions
Of importance - take note what is occurring within the Edge-world Theatre – as they too have access to transport – as well as primary and secondary targets – thus any invasion into the Capellan Confederation cannot be limited to just the Cor-world Theatre – any invasion MUST involve both the Cor and Edge World Theatres in order to keep both military forces engaged and occupied – lest their retaliatory strike could be formidable.
The plan therefore would be to create three Phantom Army Units
Operation Fortitude - the distribution of remaining defensive forces throughout the FS.
Capellan March
Sonnia Sonnia CMM,
Mira Mira CMM
Mesartim Mesartim CMM
Almach Almach CMM
Demeter Demeter CMM, 39th Avalon Hussars RCT - R
Halloran V Halloran V CMM,
New Aragon New Aragon CMM
Algot Algot CMM
Chesterton Chesterton CMM
Valexa Valexa CMM - R
Goshen Goshen CMM, 1st Goshen Cadet Cadre
Bell 1st Bell Training Battalion - G
Axton 2nd NAIS Cadet Cadre - G
Moravian Moravin CMM
Orbisonia Orbisonia CMM,
Kathil - Capitol Kathil CMM - G, 2nd Chisholm's Raiders - V
Novaya Zemlya Waco Rangers - R
Alcyone Alcyone CMM - R
Redfield Redfield CMM
Kittery Kitterl CMM, 1st Kittery Borderers -R
Carmacks Carmacks CMM,
Wernke 5th Davion Guards RCT - V
Hobbs Hobbs CMM, 1st Capellan Dragoons - 2B
New Syrtis - Capitol New Syrtis CMM - G, 6th Syritis Fusiliers RCT - E
Firgrove Firgrove CMM, 3rd Ceti Hussars RCT - R
Anaheim 2nd Albion Training Centre - G
Warren Warren CMM - G
Hyalite Hyalite CMM, Illician Lancers - R
Ridgebrook Ridgebrook CMM - G
Sirdar Sirdar CMM - R
Mendham Wylie's Coyotes
Draconis March
Caph 3rd Ceti Hussars RCT - R
Northwind 8th Syrtis Fusiliers RCT
Quentin 1st Capellan Dragoons - R
Errai Dismal Disinherited (1 Regiments) - R
Addicks Dismal Disinherited (1 Regiments) - R
Galatia III Galatia DMM
Cartago Clovis DMM - G
Exeter Exeter DMM
Royal Royal DMM
Marduk Marduk DMM, Dismal Disinherited (1 Regiment) - R
Harrow's Sun Harrow's Sun DMM
Robinson - Capitol Robinson DMM - G, 1st Robinson Rangers - V
New Ivaarsen New Ivaarsen DMM
Sakhara V Sakhara DMM, Sakhara Academy Cadre (size Unknown)
Tishomingo Dahar DMM - R
Mayetta Mayetta DMM
Kesai IV Lindon's Company (1Battalion) - V
Bryceland Bryceland DMM
Tancredi IV Tancredi DMM, Tancredi College Cadre (size unknown)
Greeley Greeley DMM
Milligan Milligan DMM
Kilbourne Kilbourne DMM - G, Kilbourne Academy Cadre (size unknown)
Boondock Greenburg's Godzillas - V
Crucis March
Marlette Marlette CMM
Bristol Bristol CMM
Johnsondale Lexington Combat Group - (1 Regiment) - R
Beecher Beecher CMM
Layover Lexington Combat Group - (1 Regiment) - R
New Valencia Lexington Combat Group - (1 Regiment) - R
Kestrel - Capital Kestrel CMM
Gambier Gambier CMM
Tsamma Tsamma CMM - G
Crofton Crofton CMM, Markson Marauders - R
Eridani Light Horse (1 Regiments) - V
Shawnee Shawnee CMM
Anjin Muerto Anjin Muerto CMM - G
Talcott Talcott CMM, Eridani Light Horse (1 Regiment) - V
Salem Salem CMM, Harlock's Warriors
New Avalon - Capital New Avalon CMM - R
Team Banzai - E
Belladonna Belladonna CMM
El Dorado El Dorado CMM
Remagen Remagen CMM
Delavan Delavan CMM,
2nd New Ivaarsen Chausseurs - R
Galax 1st Argyle Lancers (2 Battalions) - R
Torrence 1st Argyle Lancers (1 Battalions) - R
Point Barrow 1st Point Barrow Academy Cadre (Size unknown)
Sabanillas 1st Albion Training Cadre - G
Filtvelt 1st Filtvelt Academy Cadre (Unknown size)
Brockton 1st Brockton Training Battalion (1 Battalion) - G
New Damascus New Damascus CMM
Noatak Noatak CMM
Chirikof - Capital Chirkof CMM
Colorado Colorado CMM
Gulkana Gulkana CMM
June - Capital June CMM, The Disocuri - R
Great Gorge Great Gorge CMM
Islamabad Islamabad CMM - G
Panpour The Fighting Urakhai (3 Regiments) - R
Panpur CMM
Macintosh Macintosh CMM
Operation Neptune – Total AFFS Offensive forces.
AFFS Units designated
1st F-S Armored Cavalry - E
20th Avalon Hussars RCT – V
33rd Avalon Hussars RCT – V
41st Avalon Hussars RCT - R
1st Aragon Borderers – V
1st Chisholm's Raiders RCT - V
1st Crucis Lancers RCT - V
2nd Crucis Lancers RCT – R
3rd Crucis Lancers RCT - V
4th Crucis Lancers RCT - V
5th Crucis Lancers RCT - V
6th Crucis Lancers RCT – V
7th Crucis Lancers RCT – E
8th Crucis Lancers RCT – R
Davion Light Guards RCT – V
Davion Heavy Guards RCT – E
Davion Assault Guards RCT - E
1st Davion Guards RCT - E
3rd Davion Guards RCT - E
2nd Davion Guards RCT – V
4th Davion Guards RCT – E
4th Deneb Light Cavalry - V
5th Deneb Light Cavalry RCT – R
12th Deneb Light Cavalry RCT – R
2nd Robinson Rangers – R
5th Syrtis Fusiliers RCT - R
1st New Ivaarsen Chasseurs – E
Mercenary Units designated
Blue Star Irregulars (3 Regiments) - R
The Crater-Cobras (2 Regiments) - R
Eridani Light Horse (1 Regiments) - V
Redfields Renegades
Screaming Eagles (2 Regiments) - R
12th Vegan Rangers (4 Regiments) – E
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
06/29/21 01:08 AM
45.51.181.83
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Have you so limited a tactical view, that you can not figure out shuttles on the battlefield are a good thing? Simply putting down reinforcements that are not going to take even half an hour to get involved in the battle is more then enough to give reason to this. Even dropping paratroopers can turn the tide of a battle. Getting munitions to the front line with a unit that is NOT restricted to ground transport is another big thing. This is not saying every battle should have them. But never sending any limits tactical movements. Even a few units to slow or change the direction an enemy unit is moving helps.
Sacking a city is not a war crime? Last I knew of, specifically burning down a city, trying to kill the civilians was a war crime. But then maybe the definition used is different.
There are more then a few private citizens that own naval vessels in real life. Actual combat vessels. They tend to be drug lords or friends of dictators, but you can buy them. The game has a large amount of combat units being owned by non military/non government entities. And with talking about modifying commercial vessels for combat, that happens more then it should.
Tactic failure. No one said that attacking a world meant you wanted to keep it. Just taking out the military forces and anything that can make military hardware is enough. Hit a few worlds in a nation like this, then hit the world you really want. Part of raids and decoy tactics. It may also be just a way to stop the enemy from hitting your worlds. In the end, if you have the enemy surrender unconditionally, then you might have to deal with rebuilding. But then it would be on your terms, and that does not mean you will rebuild them back to their original level. It may well be that you use that world to trick other hostile nations to hit those worlds, while you hit their industries. Economic ruin is a great way to stop the enemy from bothering you again. No money to rebuild, no forces to come after you. This is part of removing their ability to wage war.
As stated above, the taking of a world may well be just to remove it from the enemy's possession. For some instances, it will be a symbol they can not allow you to hold. For Battletech, it may well be a worthless world, for resources, to own, but controls the jump access to a few other systems, or even worlds in that same system. Value is not always measured in how many resources it contributes to your treasury. Just threaten 5 systems, means the enemy has to spread out to cover them all.
War is no longer about vengeance
Are you playing the same game as the rest of us? The 4th war was about vengeance against Max Liao. 3039 war was about trying to strike against the DC to remove a hated foe. The clan invasion was about the clans wanting to repay the IS for forcing the SLDF and Kerensky out of the IS. The WOB Jihad was about punishing the IS for destroying the 2nd SL.
Almost every war is about vengeance. Most is insults against a ruler by another ruler. Greed and pride is the basis for every war. Not sure how this point is missed. History has taught it over and over again.
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Requiem
06/29/21 06:26 AM
1.158.147.1
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Limited? Hardly …
There is just too many negatives …dropship space is limited, planetary invasions require the maximum strategic and tactical effectiveness - in addition to assigning the correct units …
- to be effective would require vast numbers – opportunity cost would suggest removing these shuttles and investing in aerospace fighters
- lack of offensive weapons
- lack of armour
- lack of transport capabilities – one vehicle, 60 tons or less – and must fit in a certain box size
If the enemy has multiple squadrons of even conventional fighters in proximity their ability to survive drops considerably
Paratroopers - many believe they can achieve impossible goals – however they are lightly armed and as a consequence must be reinforced quickly or they too will not survive – consider Operation Market Garden – a Bridge too far …
Munitions – hub and spoke arrangement – dropship to transport – VTOL transport or Cargo Aircraft or Land vehicles …
Shuttles should be limited to special forces / reconnaissance if fitted out with specialist electronic and photographic equipment / transporting officers / medical personnel and injured between the fleet.
Their effectiveness on a planetary invasion for mass transport is pointless!
Looting and arson / murder of civilians are two separate charges … however, if you can prove that the civilians have engaged in hostilities, they are no longer civilians – classification changes to militia / paramilitary and as such becomes legal.
As for people owning warships – still requires a quasi-government to assist with the purchase …
Planetary assault – aim to capture the planet …
Planetary raid - aim to extract / inflict damage upon the planet’s surface …
If your aim is just to damage the world then remember this – you are sowing the seeds for a future war – hate begets hate, and this hate will be passed down form one generation to the next – an unjust destruction of a person’s home and family will lead to an unjust retaliatory war in the future – a proportionate response would be to retaliate and destroy one of you Home Worlds – pointless act of aggression!
War is politics by another means – you must have a clear and definable objective that you are attempting to reach – at which point hostilities are to cease.
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No money to rebuild, no forces to come after you. This is part of removing their ability to wage war.
To look at how effective this strategy is just look at the end of WW1 and how this affected the Germans.
Then look at the rebuilding strategy of Germany / Japan with the assistance of US government … and look at the indigenous peoples’ attitudes toward the victors.
Value should be measured not in the momentary transient value it should be viewed from the long-term perspective, especially when you your future aim is to become first lord - how will your subjects view you and your army – bloodthirsty monster or libertarian, who views the welfare of all the people – even those she/he has conquered – as of importance.
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War is no longer about vengeance. Are you playing the same game as us?
Yes – Yes I am … it is just that when I become 1st Lord I will be viewed differently – how my word is trusted by the people … this is where an individual such as Katherine Steiner-Davion is the proper person for job – publicly she is magnetic – privately – ruthless.
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controls the jump access to a few other systems
This statement only holds water if you actively travel from one world to another – if, however, you choose to utilize empty space as a jump point between destinations then such a statement becomes meaningless.
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The clan invasion was about the clans wanting to repay the IS for forcing the SLDF and Kerensky out of the IS.
Then the Clans do not even understand their own history!
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The WOB Jihad was about punishing the IS for destroying the 2nd SL.
Pointless and meaningless act – if the attempt is to reform the star league then there needs to be value in returning and re-joining.
For this to occur there needs to be someone whom will champion their cause – then there needs to be a reason / imperative for re-joining
This, in my opinion is Katherine Steiner-Davion – rather than an interplanetary war – return her to the position as ruler of the Lyran people – then provide her with an army against the Clans - in proving their worth in battle the average person will demand of their lords to assist her and her Knights (WOB) in their holy crusade against the evil Clans …. It will be simple to portray her as the new Joan of Arc ….
War is more than just vengeance, greed and pride …
Freedom – physically, mentally, or for religion …
Economics – money – when trade routes / products are threatened …
History has also shown that a leader who goes to war for vengeance, greed or pride usually end up dead shortly thereafter – usually by their own hand when they loose …. or when their children become impatient about their succession …
If as a House Lord you want to win and become the next First Lord there is only one way – absorb other houses military industrial complex into your own and then use this combined military to take over the next and the next until it is all yours …
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
06/29/21 01:16 PM
45.51.181.83
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planetary invasions require the maximum strategic and tactical effectiveness - in addition to assigning the correct units …
And with the bias against using shuttles for anything but spec ops, you remove the maximum abilities. Placing down supplies or reinforcements, as well as picking up damaged or endangered units to avoid the enemy capturing or destroying them is another tactic that comes in handy. This is especially true when the enemy is known for killing your troops.
Paratroopers are not meant to stop an enemy regiment with a single company. The fact that you have troops in your path as you are trying to run from another unit throws chaos into your morale. They can be effective in taking down some damaged units. Another use would be to slow down and even scout for an enemy that has disappeared. Special Operations does NOT always mean spy type agents being sent to do a job. Yes, those trained for it, are more effective then just sending in a normal unit, but there are times when you have no choice.
A planetary assault is not always about taking the world. It sounds like it would be, but there are other options that are planetary assaults. Simple diversion of the enemy's attention as you set up a strike for the real target. You would think raid, but your forces will NOT be retreating as they would in a raid.
So you are saying that wars are not fought to destroy the economy of the enemy, in order to prevent them from continuing to attack you, or deter them in the future?
I would think this is tied in with removing their ability to produce or buy equipment to replace what they lose so they can continue fighting you. Basic logic here. Maybe trying to over think everything is what is going on.
Being the media darling does not equate to the enemy people seeing you as the leader they want. Also, more then a few of your own people will not see you as the ultimate leader. This is not just those in power that oppose you either. TO become the Star Lord, you would need to force the other leaders into submission. Which goes to vanity, as you will be fighting them because they did not see you as the only choice for the position. Anger at this, causes the war. This very reason could be one, that is why Hanse did not pursue the title.
WOB was never viewed as knights to the main population of the IS. Even Comstar wasn't, and they spent the succession wars trying to make an image that they were. And without interplanetary war? What do you think would happen with her going after the clans? That is interplanetary war.
How people think is not showing thru well in your responses.
Each person views things differently. Those born into priviledge start believing others are there to serve their every desire. This is more true with those born in a government like a dictatorship, and even a monarchy to some point. So with this, freedom is only for those in power, while they rest are meer work horses. You work for your overlord and do as you are told as well as believe what they tell you. You worship whom they tell you. This has been pretty much why each tribe has gone to war against others throughout history.
Economic runs the same way a lot of the time. Money has become power, since bartering has fallen to the wayside. This is pure greed, as you are trying to protect your own items/routes, while expanding into other markets/production. This causes others to respond.
And from this small response, it seems to forget, there are times when you don't have a choice but to fight a war. The enemy sees you as the invader and starts a fight. War is not only what you believe and want, but those that oppose you as well.
Might need to check the history of the SL. The first one was made by POLITICAL agreement, NOT WAR. The second one was poitics as well, not war. You do not need to own everything to be the leader. It helps when you do, that is not being challenged. The Idea of the St. Ives Compact is a very great concept with being the leader. As the Marches came about, so to can ruling the entire IS work. Hanse did not own it all. He had control over it for the most part of it, but the people in the marches had enough freedoms to stay loyal to the state. To try and run the entire IS with one government would show why it really isn't possible. The governmental services would be so bogged down doing anything, they would be pointless. Feudalism is normally the way to deal with it, but a nation the size of the IS would feed on itself, as it has always done so. Strict guidelines and laws would lock in the system so no upward movement could happen without a major incident. Votes would soon become so full of fraud, as well as powerful families getting upset with the others.
The nature of the human to desire being top dog will always cause war in the end. How big and soon is the only difference.
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Requiem
06/29/21 11:33 PM
1.158.147.1
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Bias, yes … I agree, my units will not utilize them other than stipulated.
Paratroopers … are the spearhead, the vanguard.
Duties include …
Mischief.
Surprise attacks.
Seizing / demolishing strategic objectives – sabotage objectives / communications / enemy supply dumps – and hold until relieved orders.
Small artillery insertion.
Such troops fit in perfectly with Blitzkrieg.
Problem is they are lightly armed on the whole which puts them at a disadvantage on the ground when confronted with armour.
Any area that is prepared for an airborne attack will result in heavy paratrooper losses.
In reconnaissance use Rangers not the Para.
Utilizing vast amounts of ships and men for a diversionary attack – you had best have a good primary target in mind – Aleutian Islands / Midway.
In the far future where empires have a large number of planets and each with their own independent economy the capture of that world IS the act of destroying your enemies economy – capturing it as intact as possible will add to the economy of House that captures it – by removing their access to these planets removes their ability to “produce” equipment to replace them – it also means that the enemy (who captured the world) has full access to these military industrial facilities - utilizing wanton destruction for its own sake is pointless in an interstellar war -unless you believe in utilizing fear as a weapon – though this is a double edge sword.
This should be standard operating procedure within the Battletech Universe. The aim is to amass vast amounts of military industrial facilities due to the fact that they can no longer be re-built as well the issues when it comes to maintaining / repairing these facilities at a 3025 period in time ….
If your House has the ability to establish and manufacture an almost infinite amount - of weapons and materials from Mechs to small arms - then destroying an enemy facility of two would be acceptable. However this is not the case within this realm, every line lost could mean the total destruction of the ability to maintain a particular BattleMech line for the House in question as many of the individual Mechs Lines are only produced on one world, with one company producing them. It is therefore imperative that they are maintained at all costs when undertaking a planetary assault.
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Being the media darling does not equate to the enemy people seeing you as the leader they want.
Recent actions would say otherwise.
Also Katherine was NEVER held accountable – the circumstantial evidence was NEVER made public – it is very easy for Victor to been as a usurper in this case – remember over half the empire still fought for her over Victor!
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To become the Star Lord, you would need to force the other leaders into submission.
Circa 3025 onwards – where does this army come from – where is the military industrial facilities that produces all the weapons systems to which this army needs to win? …answer your enemies military industrial facilities – as House lord you can only win if you amalgamate your enemy’s military industry into your own – build up you new model army and continue the war by taking more military industrial facilities from your enemies ….
Very poor writing is why Hanse did not obtain the title!
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WOB was never viewed as knights to the main population of the IS.
IN AN ALTERNATE SETTING : This is where they could have been – If the Master as a History Buff of the SLDF he could have used Commander-in-Chief Ikolor Fetladral’s principlal that the SLDF SHOULD INTERVENE AND MAINTAIN THE PEACE (PS great work with the revisionist Canon history re-writing within Sarna of this era – painting Ikolor as the villain and Rebecca as the hero!) as a guide – First, use the WOB army to confront Victor during the early days of the civil war – demand he provide proof as to Katherine’s guilt – as he cannot they will intervene on behalf of Katherine.
Then defend Lyran Space from the next Clan wave of attacks – and we have the WOB as Knights defending the IS against the Clans …. Just add one massive PR campaign.
Belief systems shift within different cultures – the variety of which would me massive though-out the IS – each planet could have a primary and multiple smaller cultural belief patterns … the attempt of which should have been attempted when each planet’s individual dossier was established, though there are a few you can extrapolate though the information provided.
Each individual House has their own export / import rules as well as interplanetary rules (as we have now) – the economy of which creates stratified worlds – rich, technological, agricultural, mining, holiday with environmental protection, extremely poor etc ….. – it is at the discretion of each House Lord and planetary ruler to assit their world to prosperity …
There will always be times when war is inevitable …
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The first one was made by POLITICAL agreement, NOT WAR.
What was the imperative behind that political agreement – what brought each House to the SL table?
For Houses approached to be members the SL was supposed to be vastly different … reality – nepotism, infighting, technological exclusion, bully tactics and war to achieve political aims against people who had the right to say we do not want to be part of this …
It, like Rome, was doomed from the start – the basic government is exclusionist … who uses military power to get their way – borders still existed!
Government is the via the will of the people Feudalism is designed for the rights of the few.
Sooner or later revolution must occur – looking society into a stratified box will only bring about a civil war – the nature of humanity also desires freedom.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
06/30/21 04:20 AM
45.51.181.83
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I see you have forgotten that war has changed in the future. Power Armor is NOT a weak unit to use. They can be dropped, or at least the ones with jets can, to be inserted into areas needed. In the future, you can also drop jump infantry, which is more powerful the normal infantry is. There is no need to commit a full dropship to dropping a squad.
Yet to hurt the enemy even more, you simply take out the economy of a world, and force them to pay for that world, as well as their others. You Psy-ops comes to play here. If you do not even bother trying to help the world that was attacked, the others start wondering if you will help them if they get hit. And it can be played out the other way as well. If you do help them, provacetuers can whip up resentment, as they now have to pay for a world that was poorly run.
How would the FWL or DC be affected if Katherine was convicted or not? Their people would only care if it starts another civil war then can exploit. Her fame in the FC/LA does not change their views on her. Most see her as a spoiled child, that would be easy to destroy. I don't have information after Vlad had her, so don't know if she turned out to be great at tactics.
Poor writing is why the character realizes that chasing the dead title would lead to the deaths of millions of people? The 1st and 2nd succession wars resulted in those reaching for that title. If the 3rd war had gone that route, the IS would not exist in any state to even trade, much less resemble the great houses. Well unless Comstar decided to seize power. A great leader is one that knows when NOT to attack others. Keep your people safe.
And if the enemy has so much power in their industries, then they would wipe you out before you could do anything.
Being that WOB has access to the intel being sent over the HPG, they would very well have the information they needed. The FC civil war, played directly into their hands. It stopped the most powerful nation from just rolling over the other houses. Rolling in to help defend the LA would have been a disaster for them. Katherine was a media manipulator. That was far worse for WOB then Victor, even with him being part of Comstar. Victor was focused on the Clans. Which meant not all resources were looking into their business. Let the clans chew up the LA, then hit them as they get closer to the FWL border. With the LA in shambles, the FWL and WOB could hold those worlds without much resistance, as the LA government would be eaten up by the clans. And they would need someone to prevent the FS/FC from trying to take the worlds, as propaganda would suggest Victor would make them pay for supporting Katherine.
Really? What brought the houses into the SL? Greed, plain and simple. Having the SLDF stop border strikes, meant the houses could focus on securing their power at home, and using politics, instead of wasting troops, to force the others into a bad situation. Politics, pure and simple. Gaining tech is another form of greed. Just having better tech to increase your production and limit waste even more works out well.
What government are you talking about? Feudalism is a form of government. Autocracy is a form of government. Even democracy is a form. Each has it's own issues. Democracy gives you the best illusion that the representatives are working for the masses, but sooner or later, it shows up to be the same thing as the others. The government works for the rich, and the poor have to pay for it.
Corruption changes everything after a while.
And I thought I was going to get out of this. Guess I need to try harder.
Edited by ghostrider (06/30/21 04:21 AM)
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