games and money

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ghostrider
06/10/16 01:29 PM
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Has anyone played multiple games at the same time?
Like dungeons and dragons, along with TOG or video games?

How many people had the money to keep up with all the new books that came out, as well as new new games for several different systems?

Now with that, how many people made enough money to pay for all of this as well as rent, going to trade school and the rest of the bills by themselves?

It is nice some people can afford it, but not everyone can.
I bring this up as when I was just out of high school, money was tight, so when new books came out, I had to be very picky on what I bought. I will say this, d&d won almost every time. Even the video games won over others.
So when the choice came down to a new rule book for battle tech, and the new units for playing, which do you think was the one bought?

And this doesn't even say about buying comic books at that time either.
Akalabeth
06/12/16 04:24 AM
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Play boardgames, miniature games and video games all the time.

Only buy the books I want. Get Historicals, Total Warfare, Tac Ops, but skip Tech Manual, Jihad books, etcetera.

Buy Video games, but buy them on sale when they're 20 or 40 dollars, not on day one when they're 60.


Battletech is a boardgame. Doesn't need miniatures. Don't even need new units when you can create your own. So rulebooks trump new units, particularly if those new units don't work without those new rules.
ghostrider
06/13/16 11:35 AM
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Not sure if you got any of the adventure packs, though most of the time when they used something new, they had the rules dealing with them in it.

New rule books were not a top priority, as the main rpg in the early 80's was d&d. New monsters were more of what people were looking for, and the new rule books didn't really add much. With that being the pattern for things, it was carried over to battletech.

Not sure how many units you made using pencil and paper, but it was not like today where you got the programs to figure it out for you. Took to long and having to look over someone else's work to make sure it was right. Got old kinda fast.

Battle tech is one of the few board games that they did change some of the rules. Things like monopoly, sorry, and others have not seen alot, if any rule changes in their entire history of being produced.

As a side note. It was mentioned that games that change the foundations of their rules don't do well, but the entire mechwarrior line changed 4 times. Well atleast that I know of. They may have 5th edition out by now.
Akalabeth
06/13/16 07:13 PM
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Quote:
ghostrider writes:

As a side note. It was mentioned that games that change the foundations of their rules don't do well, but the entire mechwarrior line changed 4 times. Well atleast that I know of. They may have 5th edition out by now.



You see a lot of support for the Battletech RPG? A Time of War?

There's the ATOW Companion and . . . . No adventure books.
No Unbound. Nullset. Bloodrite. Living Legends. etcetera. Isn't one of the hallmarks of an RPG to release new settings and adventure/campaign books? The current Battletech RPG has a grand total of zero right now. I didn't even noticed any dedicated adventure PDFs for A Time of War and it's been out for years.

Don't think that constantly changing their rules has benefited them at all.

Dungeons and Dragons also lost a ton of their market share to Pathfinder when they changed their rules to a set people didn't like.
ghostrider
06/14/16 01:12 AM
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So would you agree that the game that can not be played unless you have the newest rule set tends to do poorly?

And to be honest, I have not seen a hobby store with anything for battletech other then the novels for a while. And that was before I moved from vegas a few years back.

Now the point with D&D is the fact that new rules came out and built on the older ones. You were not required to get the newest rules to even begin to play it. Which is part of why I skipped some. The new rules looked like a rehash of the older ones, with only some new stuff in it. With the adventure packs for Battletech, it wasn't required, or so it looked like.
Getting the latest and greatest new rules, and not being able to play the game without them sounds off to me.
I understand new things come out, and some things need outlines of what and how they fit in.

Some of us choose to spend the little bit of money we had on other things, like units, or adventure packs. I sound very much like some books for the game you would never own. They didn't appeal to you.
That happens with some people. By the time I found out there were new rules and alot changed, I didn't have the resources to get them.

To avoid this turning into another argument, understand this. The sentiment of not getting every new book out does extend to not buying rule sets people don't agree with. People have different likes, and not all think new rules is the best thing everytime they put a new book out.

I hope this clears up some issues.
And as for buying new games when the go into the bargain bin. Diablo 3 was the last game I bought new. Stupid thing is, the 'pc' doesn't really have a used game market to get some decent games for cheap. And buying the digital copies is a joke.
You lose your computer from hd failure or some other stupid thing, and you lose your games. No disc to reinstall.
And that isn't even going to windows upgrades not allowing you to use the older games.
Akalabeth
06/14/16 04:19 AM
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Quote:
ghostrider writes:

So would you agree that the game that can not be played unless you have the newest rule set tends to do poorly?




Nope.
Games Workshop is one, if not the most, successful companies and 40K is one of the most successful games and changing the rules all the time is their business model. At one point, and maybe even still today, you not only needed the latest rules but you needed the latest codex because each army being released was more powerful than the last.

Flames of War is on its third rules iteration and has only increased in popularity over the years.

Other games, like Risk have benefited greatly from recent rules variants like Risk Legacy, rules which themselves have been transferred and iterated upon into other franchises like Pandemic Legacy.


Quote:
ghostrider writes:

And buying the digital copies is a joke.
You lose your computer from hd failure or some other stupid thing, and you lose your games. No disc to reinstall.
And that isn't even going to windows upgrades not allowing you to use the older games.



Your Steam, Origin, Battle.net, Ubiwhatever or GOG account is separate from your computer. Even if your computer failed you'd still have your games unless you somehow lost access to your account.

Alternatively you can just back things up (specifically from GOG which doesn't have DRM).

Backwards compatability is a problem but I still use Windows XP so it's not a problem yet for me. DOSBox allows most games to run. A few early windows games like Heavy Gear don't work.

Quote:
ghostrider writes:

To avoid this turning into another argument, understand this. The sentiment of not getting every new book out does extend to not buying rule sets people don't agree with. People have different likes, and not all think new rules is the best thing everytime they put a new book out.




Yes except that people who aren't interested in getting the newest iteration of the rules are typically not interested in the game's progress as a whole from that point forward. When I played Legends of the Five Rings CCG and the card game went from Gold Edition to Diamond edition, 90% of my cards became obsolete overnight. Rather than continue on, build a new collection, I simple quit playing the game and whatever happened in the story, the cards or the rules from that point forward was irrelevant to me.
ghostrider
06/14/16 11:16 AM
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I would still be using windows xp, but the hard drive failed on the system. And with windows now almost forcing old versions of windows that use the internet to upgrade to windows 10, it is getting worse.

I haven't played warhammer with the exception of the xbox 360 battle march. So don't know much about that aspect.
I do find it unusual for people to buy the whole game over again with a new rules book, but it shouldn't surprise me.

The digital copies was more of other games, though I dislike the fact steam tries to log in on booting. I unplug the cable from my system when not on line. Might be the old ways in me, but I want a solid copy. Not something someone can hack into and destroy. Doesn't mean production copies don't have viruses on the disk, but it is very rare.

Basing getting the new rule set on the older more popular game turned out to be a mistake in battle tech. At that time, the only time I know of something removing rules was the change over from battle droids.
It didn't help that the local hobby stores were not up to date on some things. Or maybe they sold out before I got there. Not sure. Didn't even see they had rules of warfare until after I got 3050.
Akalabeth
06/14/16 10:13 PM
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Quote:
ghostrider writes:

The digital copies was more of other games, though I dislike the fact steam tries to log in on booting. I unplug the cable from my system when not on line.



You can disable that in the options screen so that Steam only launches when you launch your game. You can also configure games to launch in offline mode so you can play without accessing steam.

Quote:
ghostrider writes:
Might be the old ways in me, but I want a solid copy. Not something someone can hack into and destroy. Doesn't mean production copies don't have viruses on the disk, but it is very rare.



Then buy from GOG and burn it onto a DVD.

Quote:
ghostrider writes:
Basing getting the new rule set on the older more popular game turned out to be a mistake in battle tech. At that time, the only time I know of something removing rules was the change over from battle droids.
It didn't help that the local hobby stores were not up to date on some things. Or maybe they sold out before I got there. Not sure. Didn't even see they had rules of warfare until after I got 3050.



Battletech's problem isn't the change in rules, the problem was that the game was virtually dead for a few years and what content was being produced was focused on the overdone fedcom civil war.

Battletech's rules themselves should actually be changed more than they have been because the game is frankly burdened with exceptions which have manifested into literally a thousand-plus pages of rules across multiple core and supplementary books. But to drastically change the rules would be franchise suicide, so they launched Alpha Strike instead as an alternative.
DavidG
06/14/16 11:56 PM
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I started gaming with AD&D back in 1980. I bought the DMG, Players Guide, Fiend Folio, and Deities and Demigods. Then I got into Battletech and purchased everything until FASA stopped publishing them. I also bought over 500 mechs plus about 100 vehicles. I also got into Star Trek from FASA and purchased all the books. From there I got into Star Fleet Battles and bought all of their products through the mid 90s. I also purchased about 250 starship models too. At the time I also got into WWII and modern micro armor and navel battles. I had around 2000 tanks and assorted support vehicles. I could field German, American, Russian and British armies for WWII, and American, Canadian, East and West German, Russian, and Israeli for modern armor. My naval forces were over 500 ships for Americans, German (one for one), Italian and British. I was also into Champions, Villain and Vigilantes, Rune Quest, Call of Cthulhu, GURPS (over 30 books), Role Master, Space Master, Shadowrun, Cyber Punk, Star Wars (West End Games), Twlight 2000 (all books), DC Heroes, Feng Sui, Space Opera, Starships and Spacemen, and Chivalry and Sorcery. Then in the mid 1990s, I got into Vampire ( all the books), Werewolf (most of the books), Mage and Changeling from White Wolf Publishing. There were various other games I played, but I didn't own any of the books. Part of the reason I was able to do this was I worked at a game store and eventually owned part of one. I am also into model railroading and had about $50,000 invested. Unfortunately, in 2005, I ran into some serious financial problems and had all my things in a storage site and was unable to make the payments and lost it all. Friends were supposed to help me cover it, but they quit helping and I wasn't in a position to do anything about it.
ghostrider
06/15/16 12:46 PM
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Sorry to hear that david. It really bites losing things to a crappy circumstance.
Though you got into it far more then I ever would.

Granted, I would love to be able to get involved in alot more, but that isn't going to happen for a while, if ever.

So out of all of those games, how many did you have to have the newest rules to play them?
That was the nice thing about D&D for a long while. You didn't need to buy new rule books every time they came out with a new one.
DavidG
06/15/16 07:42 PM
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I usually stayed current as long as the games were being produced. Like when White Wolf went to the New World of Darkness, I didn't buy any of the new books and kept using the older ones.
Drasnighta
06/18/16 06:01 PM
173.183.129.245

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You rarely need the latest rules to play within a group that you set up.

Most of the time, I only see issues when the format is an online discussion on what is good, what is bad, and what is the rules. In that instance, unless there is some sort of caveat presented, the 'latest' rules are often championed as what is used - since it is generally a common reference point.



I play BMR sometimes.

I play AToW.

I play AD&D 2nd. But I also play Pathfinder and soon will dabble in D&D 5th, I'm sure.

I play Necromunda, I play 7th Ed 40k.

I play Infinity, most of the time N2, but soon to be N3 as well...


It all depends on the group I'm playing with.


How do I make the money for it?

At the moment, I'm a full-time stay-at-home Father of a Toddler with Speech Language difficulties. He requires a lot of special care and teaching and training... And you know what it means when a kid needs a specialist...

So, how do I do it? I keep everything Self-Financing.

I trade in and out of certain games. Sell off old things. I also run my own Commisson Painting business I started earlier this year... (Only in Star Wars: Armada, so far, but I'll pick other little bits and pieces eventually)...

Profits from that, pay for my Kid, and then what's left over pays for my Hobby stuff.
CEO Heretic BattleMechs.
ghostrider
06/18/16 07:15 PM
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If it is true, the newer versions of D&D were because of diablo used the system. From what I was told, the game was based off, I want to say 3.0. I dislike the way they handled multi classed characters.
I do understand it is difficult to come up with adventures for high level characters, and a multi classed elven fighter/mage with good hit points is hard to deal with. The only issue we run into with others is if they allow elves to cast spells in armor. So have 2 different loadouts. One with armor, and one using bracers of defense. Solves that pretty easily.
The issue is that computers deal with the variables so much faster then anyone else does, that a comp game looks great, but is slow as hell on paper.
Not sure what they did past 3.5. Got a deal on the books and found I wasn't happy with the changes. If they were brand new, I would have returned them.

Nice to hear you have something going. Hopefully it works out good for you.
Always bad about any problems with a child.
I don't think I could do much with recycling my books, as the only one I got worth anything is an original dieties and demigods. The one with the melbonian gods, and I believe the newton gods are not in the legends and lore. Other then that, the books are worn. It doesn't help when kitties think they are for scratching on. Top shelf and see them up there messing with them.
jdynqq
12/23/21 10:25 AM
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Thanks for sharing more info!
jdynqq
12/23/21 10:27 AM
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Good information!
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