general information part 2

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ghostrider
06/24/22 12:00 AM
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You mean we could have New New We Really Mean New Vegas? That's a depressing thought.
It is just annoying that worlds and even important routes would be the same name as others.

The issue I had when reading the books was not knowing there were two routes called the Exodus Road, at the time. It confused me as they did not run into much besides pirates, though I did think the original ran north past the FRR area, not out the OA area.

I would believe the developers are more then likely to have forgotten the name was used before they reused it. Little things seemed to disappear, only to reappear later, like someone said 'opps! we forgot about this.'
Karagin
06/24/22 12:31 AM
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Oh, I am talking like we could see worlds named after every fictional thing and pop culture reference you can come up with, issues are CGL and FASA, etc... can't afford to be sued for doing that. However, we have seen shows like Babylon 5 get away with having Planet Disney and a few others doing similar things. Not sure about all the legalize though.

Hence why we need more system development along with major planets, so that way we know if they are talking New Dallas then we know it's the Dallas. Things like that. The problem becomes on what sells, seems that there's this idea that the scenario packs/books never sold well, yet I recall many times having to get my local FLGS to order them or going to another city in my state to get a copy. So not selling on the levels of the TROs sure, but if that is the benchmark they were using to judge what books to publish or still are then they are clearly lost on how things work. The KS should have shown them that fans what Battletech stuff, ALL of it.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
ghostrider
06/24/22 10:59 AM
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The adventure packs may not have sold well, because where I lived, they were not really on the shelves for people to even see. For a while, I didn't even know the existed.
Granted, it didn't help that the hobby stores really didn't carry much in the way of gaming material. It was many arts and crafts hobby materials.

In the end, money seems to do the most damage. Chasing things that don't do more then pay a little more then what they cost, gets thrown to the winds, and in the end, they are supporting the main product. Given what Harmony Gold did, I can see them being a bit skittish, but some of the periphery things causes interest in the main product, which does bring in more people buying it.
This is not suggesting making gold plated minitures. The pewter lines does help stimulate interest in the games.
How much is the question that I don't have an answer for.

To be honest, they could use their own characters to create names of worlds. Mallorys World is one such example.
Karagin
06/24/22 12:47 PM
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They could do a lot of things, but taking chances doesn't always seem to be something they want to do. However, if we the fans are critical of them they come out swing, as I have seen first hand.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
ghostrider
06/25/22 10:59 AM
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If fusion engines run so well on little fuel, and there doesn't seem to be a cost (other then the plant itself), why is there cold worlds like Tharkad?
It would figure that using fusion generators to power large heaters should be part of a terraforming program to heat up the entire planet.
There is one picture of a heavy/assault lance moving thru the streets, and the caption says the city is being powered by a large reactor, so it isn't like they don't already have some in place. I won't say that the power output isn't stressed by people using the power already, but the idea is key.

I would believe that they could be used as such, which also includes warming up other areas, like asteroids and such.

I do know the opposite doesn't work. Cooling a world with such things as Air Conditioners doesn't work, as the units produce heat to cool areas.

Although space elevators could be the key here. Heat/cold transfer lines in it could conduct heat to space, and cold to the ground.
which makes you wonder if the game ever had space elevators in it as well.
Karagin
06/25/22 07:17 PM
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Might be that the planet is as warm as it is able to get without ruining the ability to sustain life at levels that mean good production?

I am sure Beansstalks were there, just never mentioned, seems like they stepped away from the harder science after Clans arrived and went more to the instant action FPS style game.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
ghostrider
06/25/22 10:09 PM
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This issue could have been done before the clans, especially when the SL had left terraforming equipment behind when they left. Even the TH, TA and such could well have used this to help terraform cold worlds.
This may well have also allowed them to send water to worlds around it, as it thawed, and assuming it had more water then needed.

Though sustain life is relative. The human form does not do well in temperatures that remain below -20 degrees year round. Plants and some animals do ok with it. But when does a human want to live in such temperatures if they can live in something around 60 or so? The could well bring in plants and such to live at that temperature, but I can see where the soil itself might not support a lot of plant life.

I wonder if they ever thought about that with Tharkad and others?

As a side note, you could make an atmosphere semi breathable by electrolysis of water, and keeping the hydrogen for fuel. But I'm pretty sure most knew that.
Karagin
06/25/22 10:45 PM
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If you go look at the FASA Star Trek game stuff for the Klingons which was out roughly the same time as the early BT stuff, you will that someone at FASA had a heavy interest or a love affair for cold weather worlds. Since the majority of the Klingon worlds were ice colder than Pluto was thought to be.

And remember Steiner has links to Northern Europe, so Northern Germany, Denmark, Norway, etc...all cold-weather areas.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
ghostrider
06/28/22 01:59 AM
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Does anyone know what happened to the Titan Carrier dropship?
It came out in the 2750 books, but I have not seen anything about it since then.
I honestly would think it would have been put into production and replaced the Leopard CV ship.
From the weapons load, it looked like an assault ship that could carry 18 fighters.

Has anyone used it in their games?
I tried to talk the group into using them, but they seemed put off by it. Probably because it wasn't use after it was introduced, but they didn't like it when they were told it would replace more then a few Leopard CVs, meaning less jumpship births used for fighter carriers. The Vengeance is great, but getting ahold of one without the GM being nice is difficult at best.
Requiem
06/28/22 02:10 AM
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https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Titan_(DropShip_class)

after reading the above sits it states that all IS ships were killed off during succession wars – and only the Clans have retain them …

However I would like to ask why TPTB never allowed the IS to rebuild then in the IS?

Though there are many instances of technology and state education (and intelligence gathering) not been utilized correctly for the IS … I doubt many would have picked up on this glaring error …
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Karagin
06/28/22 09:37 AM
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There was some mention of them in the Jihad and then nothing.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
ghostrider
06/28/22 12:59 PM
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Since the Titan was part of the data recovered in the Helm Core, there is no 'loss of information' in the IS for it.
The only reason why they wouldn't be built is the lack of ship yard birth to do so. Yet the Hamilcar was built, so this doesn't make sense.

As stated, it has great firepower, and would cover 3 Leopard CV birth on a jumpship meaning 2 more ships could be loaded on the same amount of jumpships, would save space.
The information suggests that this ship and it's compliment would take out most jump point defenders itself is a big deal.

One thing that is missing is most writing does not include the ship. As I don't have the books past the clan invasion, I didn't get to read anything about the future, though from what has been posted, it doesn't seem like they were used much.

I like the design over the Leopard CV. The issue is getting them filled with fighters. The group I play with does not use the unlimited sources to buy syndrome. The GM rolls to see if anything is available, using a computer as there is a lot of things that can be on sale, and if they don't have it, then you can't buy it. Having to order it to be made is a pain, as it can take a while to build, and when you need one now, hurts.
As stated, this covers the spot between the Vengeance and the Leopard, which makes it good for fighter coverage. When dealing with multiple units on different worlds, they are very important for providing additional fighter coverage over the mech carriers that have fighter support.

This is good for garrison duty as well, since you can have a fighter battalion on patrol, while the rest of the regiment has some down time.
Requiem
06/28/22 03:17 PM
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I’m not surprised, the military industrial complex of every Great House is quite inept when it comes to manufacturing weapons from infantry all the way through to Naval Warships.

Each Great House should purge from their military many of their military industrial complexes designs as being pointless.

TPTB really need someone to point out that in a Universe built upon constant war the engineering of each subsequent generation should be improving upon the last generations’ weapons systems – in other words it really shouldn’t be going backwards.

Also in a Universe where constant war is the norm the Great House’s Military Procurement Department has the whip handle not the other way around – thus there should be someone providing oversight as to the procurement of weapon systems into their military, and not the hap hazard releases as given in the game.

Military Technology should also logically progress - with the arrival of the Clans all vehicles (with the exception of Naval) should be Omni – also over time all weapons should be upgraded to Clan and then beyond this in range, damage with reducing heat.

Where is the R&D in the game? Also some of the ranges of electronic scanners equipment are beyond ludicrous and should have been fixed from day one!
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
ghostrider
06/28/22 06:43 PM
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The idea of not having a min/max set up in mechs in canon makes sense. If they were, then most new players would give up trying as anyone with experience would be able to wipe them out quickly, as the new player would over heat quickly.
It does not make sense to most that have a good idea of what works and what doesn't.
I also believe that without the min/max concept, a few weapons systems would not be in production, like the small laser. Few units might require it, such as the Awesome 8Q. The gap between minimum range and physical contact can be a bit harsh, but the penalties aren't as bad as say an archer. Yes the archer has 2 forward lasers and 2 backwards facing lasers.

The AC 2 would be more useful on a facility that can not really be reached by much, as light artillery. The idea of being a main weapons is a bit much otherwise. Obstacles would prevent a lot of fire from them. So hill top firing down is about the only way to use it. The Gauss rifle would suffer a little from this, but it is not so nerfed with minimum range, nor is it a peashooter.

But they do have their purposes.

Omni tech is more of a challenge to deal with. It is easy to say all units should have it, but more then a few don't need it. Well that is if you want to keep the vehicle as it was originally produced. Coming up with a whole new line would be preferrable with omni tech. The Hertzer is a good example of this. One weapon. To use omni tech would mean having to change the entire concept and use of it. Not that this is a horrible idea. But unnecessary. A new unit would be better off being used, especially since the wheeled chassis is a problem in most combat.
Well most combat that I have seen. City fighting is frowned upon by the group. Too many big bad PPC/AC 20 carriers that can't do much with infantry ambushes.
Karagin
06/29/22 12:03 PM
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Min/Max is for idiots. Yes, I said it. It's for players who have to win at any cost. That is the sole reason they play games. They must win or else they will make it hell for the other players.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
ghostrider
06/30/22 11:36 AM
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I had originally thought it was stupid that the original mechs were not maxed out, until I realized that most that just started playing, didn't know things like heat management and why it was important. It also showed why not only bracket firing was necessary, but the mechs were not the jack of all trades. They could be tried in some roles, but they were pretty much set up for certain roles.
The Archer is horrible in heavy forested maps. Before IDF for missiles, this was even more true then now. The 2 medium lasers are just not enough to defend the mech against similar weighted unit that use other weapons.
Dealing with infantry is yet another role that got even more problematic with the single point damage change for non pulse energy weapons. The Awesome 8Q show this well.

This forces players to think about the mechs uses with their weapons and even speed/jets. But it is a bit more realistic when you think about it. It is a bit difficult to adjust to a few roles, when you are stuck in a rut, like having a hit and run unit when you want to just stand and fight. The normal example would be a locust verses an atlas, but this doesn't really show much. The weight difference is the problem with it.
Something more akin to say a griffin verse a phoenix hawk. The TRO main versions, show the P-hawk needs to get under LRM range, and run the Griffin hot. Without physical contact, the Griffin is at a disadvantage when at closer range. Both will have to deal with heat, but the P-hawks Large laser and shorter ranged weapons come into play. If you can't get in close, then the PPC does is great. But given the maps,

The open areas needed for LRMs and to some extent the PPCs also limits some of the distance shots. Granted, the mid range with the longer portion of short range for the PPC is ideal for to hit rolls, IE 4-5 range, makes the Griffin dangerous, if they are not heated up.

But with the min/max concept, most would never understand this. Most would see this issue, and not want to touch it. It took a few matches to get this thru my skull. AC 20s are great near point blank range. But they are worthless in an LRM fight.
So leaving out the Saladin Hover tank, open field engagements are LRM/PPC/AC 2/5 fights. Hard to get in close to even attempt the 20. An AC 10 is usable, though not likely to be able to potshot as much as you would like.
Speed is shown well here as well. With little to no cover, the little mechs require their speed to try and avoid shots. Something the death match arena people rarely ever find out.
The stock mechs force players to choose. For some, this forces players to play different from what then want to. Part of why so many love changing out units to fight different battles. It is too difficult to use a mech that is at a disadvantage in some fights. And for some scenarios, this is something that has to happen. A map that is being fought over a bridge that is destroyed, and no other way to get within say 5 hexes of each other, long range weapons is a must. So this, I can see changing out units. Not realistic, if you were sent to assault the enemy on the other side before the bridge was taken out, and now you have to deal with losing the bridge. But we won't get into that.
Karagin
06/30/22 12:10 PM
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The game is not built for min/max. When players use it they break the game. Even Clan tech isn't set up for it. Watch folks at local conventions over the years get upset when they couldn't use their targ/pulse laser death machines with their 0/0 pilots or their LBX death machines etc... Really want to see folks cry, set a game at the local convention, and tell players they can bring their own homemade mechs, BUT the mechs have to be given to you to verify PRIOR to the game starting, say an hour before. Then sit down, plug the info into any of the mech building programs and watch the amount of silliness come up. You find that many will have fudged things or used Photoshop to alter the sheets after the fact or they will give you an old fashion done by hand mech, nothing wrong with that until you enter things in and find out the armor is wrong for the weight, speed, weapons, etc...etm.

Seen several GMs do this and it has been a riot watch players find out they can't cheat to win. Or even better get to the convention, didn't read the write-up of the BT game and find out they are not playing Clan stuff, and cry cause well they have never used Inner Sphere stuff before. Or as I have spoken of before, have no idea that the tabletop game exists and only know Battletech from the computer games.

One of the big issues is that many players run to the middle of the maps and duel it out like we are watching a WWF or Rocky going 12 rounds. They won't use tactics, and then when they face players who will use the terrain, they get mad. What do you mean I can't hit you? I only walk and you are in the medium range! Yes, but I jumped, there are heavy woods and your heat is high enough that it's adding a +1 to all of that. SO you need a 9 or better good luck.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
ghostrider
07/04/22 07:41 PM
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The question of why some stars can charge a jump drive faster, and not risk a misjump like hot charging does?
I am not talking the couple of hours or even a day hot charging, but 3 to 5 day hot charge.
This is also a question when a ship receives a charge from a station as well.

Does any of the better recharging stars risk it?
Does a charge from a station risk this as well?
As rules have changed since the books I got, did they update this?
How long does a drive have to charge before it drops to no extra penalties for a faster charge.
ghostrider
07/07/22 11:14 AM
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Given the fact that systems are light years apart, how would someone know where to point a HPG antenna if they don't have the information required to determine where the actual system is, much less the world on which the relay would exist? This would be an issue if the person wasn't able to, or the data for the stations tracking system was corrupt.

Simply aiming the HPG at where the star looks wouldn't work.
The closest star to the Sol system is almost 4 light years. As all bodies in the universe are constantly moving, the light we receive now from that one star is almost 4 years out of date. The entire system as moved since then.
This issue is the same thing jump ships have to deal with.

This supports the concept that the HPG isn't a tight beam to a single point. It should have a large cone effect as it moves out to compensate for the movement. Which may explain why there is a limit to the distance the HPG works, barring the WOB crap.

The black box says it sends out a signal in all directions, as they shielded it to prevent this in the 20 year update I believe.
Yet this should mean that sending a signal from it, should only be available when the world, or the sender is in a position to avoid sending the signal thru the world.
But yet the signal doesn't seem to have a range here.
Which would also mean signals sent by one would slowly reach all worlds and confuse those receiving it, as some would be years old.
Karagin
07/14/22 01:24 PM
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Helm MC.

How much of this was military-related data and how much was civilian-related? I have asked before and while we know the game is about mechs beating up each other, having the details about the other side of things adds flavor and fun.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
ghostrider
07/14/22 02:30 PM
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It would be very interesting to see that regeneration was part of the information gained from the Core. Even a more life like skin covering that would allow cybernetics to be done and not easily found out.

I would assume being able to clone organs would be in there, as this would allow some of the rich and powerful to replace their own body parts with such organs, such as a liver for an alcoholic.

Even things like self driving vehicles, for better traffic control among normal people would be interesting. Though this one would have military applications as well.

Even having theoretical data for extending the HPG range as well as some initial data showing the jump limits of jumpships being at least looked and and tested before WOB did it.

Remote control upgrades being another civilian with military applications being another one to see.
Better building materials for normal structures, though military could benefit from it.
Better agriculture methods and fertilizers are yet another thing, with hydroponics having a boost.
Even some terraforming items that could increase things like removing toxins from areas, making it possible to start fixing nuke sites. A can see this being a good thing even in the SL time. Accidents and even the Amaris war prompting at least initial research into that area.

As a side note, the idea that you can contact a ship in transit between a world and jump point from 30 lightyears away, yet can't hit a moving target that is less then 60 meters away is a bit off.
Karagin
07/17/22 06:44 PM
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Yeah, a lot of oddities in the game.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
ghostrider
08/10/22 09:29 PM
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Does anyone have a clue on where there is information on what the clans were going to do when they took Terra in the initial invasion of the canon story line?
We know the Ghost Bears moved to the IS, but was this planned before they left the home worlds?
What about the others?
Were they going to move into the IS?
Were they going to remain split between the home worlds and the IS?
The what if thread had me think about this, as I don't believe there is anything in the books that covered this.
They were going to create a new star league, but other then that, how would they support themselves?
ghostrider
08/17/22 11:24 PM
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One thing that came up in a conversation, that really affects the story of the IS.

What would have happened if the Lyran Commonwealth did not steal the battlemech design from the TH?

I doubt most of the story would have happened, as this is one of the most profound circumstances that changed the IS.
The DC would never have gained the tech, as they got it from the LC. This would also mean the other houses probably would not have the tech either.
So the TH would be the ONLY ones that had they tech, and the only ones that owned it.
Would the SL have every formed? Or would the TH decide to start seizing/annexing worlds from the other houses by force?
Might be something for a what if thread.
ghostrider
08/23/22 06:54 PM
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What if the Wolves were not forced to participate in the invasion?

Would they have sat back, then hit the invasion clans properties in the home worlds?
For some reason, I think this would be an outcome of the invasion. Basically cut off the supplies the Jaguars and Falcons would have needed to do much there, as well as severely weaken them at home.
I believe there was an agreement set up so the invading clans were not swamped by the others while a majority of their forces were in the IS, but not sure if they had the same thing about only one clan hitting their holdings.

It would also require another clan to take their place, which would further erode the crusaders main clans in the home worlds.
It would also radically change the invasion as well.

This does not mean Requiem should run out and start a thread dealing with this as he did with Phelan after we proposed to have a major discussion about him.
Oh yeah. Enjoy being ignored.
Karagin
08/23/22 07:31 PM
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No Wolves would mean a different invasion focus and outcome, so that was easy. Next question.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
ghostrider
08/25/22 12:13 PM
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Is there a list of units and assets the invading clans had that were not part of the invasion?
Those units that did not bid well enough to accompany their parent clan into the IS?
We have the list for what did enter the IS, but I would like to see what the Wolves, Falcons, Bears, and Jaguars left to guard their holdings back in the home worlds.
This might explain where most of the reinforcements came from.
And the solemha units they brought with them may well have been mobile defense units to guard worlds they took. They were just forced to use them in other roles besides that.

We know the Wolves brought only 2 warships, yet we know they had more. They could not compete with the other clans if those were the only two they had.
ghostrider
11/13/22 01:01 PM
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The idea of jumpships and gravity came to mind with a post.
Did the developers ignore the fact that the first jump ship tests were done from the two main jump points of Sol, that the chance of a misjump would have been great? Or did they just say there was no danger, as it would have stopped the progression of making jump ships?

The fact that it would have to jump very near, if not completely thru the sun, the gravity from the star would have caused major issues.
Too much or too little gravity is said to affect the jumpship at the jump point. Does a misjump come from too much or too little?

As asked before, would a jump ship move a station near a jump point, if it jumped in the location of the station? This could also be asked about large asteroids in a jump location, such as just exploring a new system? The 'dangers' put forth in the old books seemed to have been lessened or removed with the concept of the items being pushed out of the way by an incoming jump ship.

This brings up a potential 'weapon' to use against jumpships to prevent them from jumping. Not only the normally thought of emp to disrupt a charge to prevent jumping out, but potential gravity 'anchor' to prevent jumps coming in and jumping out.
Yes, this does bored on artificial gravity, but it could well be just asteroids being placed in a jump point.
An incoming fleet could well push the items into other jumpships in that fleet, damaging them, or even dropships being launched.
ghostrider
11/13/22 08:18 PM
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Had a question come up about weight and space on dropships.
The Leopard dropship has room for 4 mechs and 2 fighters. It has 5 cargo space on it.
Removing the fighter bays gives you 150 tons for each bay, meaning 300 more tons can be carried, or so simple math says.
With the video games using a Leopard, they suggest you can carry several thousand tons of mechs if in cold storage.

Would this be possible in the game, since disassembled units take up far less space then even a locust in one piece? Or even just securing them to other spaces besides the bays themselves?
Given the fact that the Leopard should be able to carry 600 tons of mechs with their bays (50 tons each), and another 300 tons of fighters with their bays, does this mean you could load up 20 Locust or some other 20 tone mechs on the ship? That should be equal to 400 tons of the normal mech weight if you loaded up 4 Atlases. Another 7 1/2 more for the fighter weights should be able to be done as well.

Is there some rules that deals with this in the newer books?
Yes, some will say the locust is small enough to fit 2 in a by, but the Wasp/Stinger comes to mind with the weight issue.
The Leopard is the smallest ship, so easiest to figure out. This could well be used for the larger ships including the Overlord/Excalibur ships with the battalion of mechs.
Yes, this does sound like a way to increase the amount of forces you can move into combat, by trying to fit more units into a ship, but having to reassemble units for combat isn't going to work. This is thinking about taking salvage and prizes out of a combat.
ghostrider
11/28/22 11:53 PM
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Is there a list of factories in the 3025 era that were house owned before the SL fell?
Or a list of all the factories in house territories that were SL owned, besides Defiance?

I find it very odd that the factories in operations during the 3025 era were all house owned outside of the SL area, when they were limited in the number of forces they could legally have.
This is especially true when you compare the number of factories that was supposed to be destroyed in the succession wars.
The same question can also apply to ship yards. Galax is supposed to be the largest one in the FS, but was it actually an SL one used to repair and make ships during the Reunification War with the TC?
I would believe the SL tried to keep certain mech models out of House hands as well, besides the 'advanced' models, such as things like the Highlander or Atlas. To my limited knowledge those were only built is SL facilities, with Defiance being the only one I know that wasn't SL owned only. The Orion was built in the FWL, but was that FWL owned, or SL facility in the FWL?

I know the video games are not really canon, but with all the SL caches and secret facilities, as well as the lore saying the houses grabbed those in TH territory when the SL fell, it would be interesting to see just how few the houses had especially when the SL did what it could to keep the advanced tech from being made outside SL owned and run facilities.
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