ghostrider
07/21/22 06:35 PM
45.51.181.83
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The question came up thinking about what happened with the clause that would allow one part of the FC to withdraw from the name.
I thought once Victor took the title of Archon-Prince, it would nullify that clause.
I thought the clause was to prevent Katrina, Hanse or Melissa from taking over both nations and that their first child, would have removed that.
Both realms would keep their current ruler title, with the combine Archon-Prince becoming the title above it, as they would preside over differences between the two realms. This should have been how a merger went.
Yet, Katherine's ability to remove the LC portion of it, makes it look like it was just an alliance.
What am I missing here?
I would expect something that would allow one nation to stand down if they did not agree with some ruling, but would expect there to be a way to allow the nation to rejoin without malice.
This is not about alts, but some speculation will be expected.
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Karagin
07/21/22 07:21 PM
70.118.172.64
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That is indeed a good question. It might be worth digging into the books again, the actual books, not the Wiki, and see what's there. Sometimes a re-read catches things in the novels and the sourcebooks.
I recall that was one of the reasons Melissa was pushing for Victor to take the joined throne so that she could step down and the two nations would be one, thus ending all chances of it splintering. Believe this was talked about in Natural Selection.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
07/21/22 10:54 PM
45.51.181.83
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A point that comes up with this, is if there isn't some sort of revoking that clause, then in the future, any two siblings of the FC royal family could well destroy the FC just because they didn't see eye to eye.
No, this is not about Katherine and Victor's squabble.
How much trust can you develop between the two nations when you know it can be dissolved just like that?
And with that, the concept of a civil war grows even greater, as each claimant would say they funded the growth in the other realm, causing even more problems.
It is also possible with multiple children, that each tries to seize a region and claim the rest from a powerbase from that region. History is filled with such issues, and Hanse did not seem like one to miss facts such as this, given that he was pushing for such discord in the FWL before the 4th war.
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Karagin
07/21/22 11:11 PM
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I believe that once Victor was on the throne and had an heir, then the rest would be put in minor roles or positions, as was the case before the states joined. Not saying that 50 years later a ticked off relative wouldn't try a civil war appoarch to take the throne, but that's 50 years down the road.
Not having a full sourcebook as we did on House Steiner and House Davion that covered the Federated Commonwealth, I fear we missed out on getting a full understanding of the merger of the two states at all levels and how things were supposed to play out had it worked out. Now that does lend to an interesting future event of having someone from one side or other try bring back the Fed-Com.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
07/22/22 07:16 PM
45.51.181.83
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Is there anywhere that tells how this is covered?
Or is it one of those things that didn't matter as TPTB were just going to destroy the FC before this could happen?
Which if Victor taking the throne would cancel that clause, then this is even more things that were missed in order to move the story along.
If it was Victor's child, then the FC government would have shut down his military career, as the entire future of the FC would be on the line. His death would destroy everything, like the concept of future children squabbling over the throne.
If something else, it would be nice to know how this could have ended.
One more thought came to mind. Would they have something to cover the throne if Victor died or could not have a child due to things like radiation poisoning, which sounds pretty common with mech warriors. Yes, the reactors don't produce it, but different battlefields have excess that can be absorbed.
Or did that get retconned out as well?
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Karagin
07/22/22 09:58 PM
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I think Victor, being the one on the throne, would have meant the Fed-Com was up and running and wasn't going to be knocked down unless it was by the Clans trying for Terra, and somehow that just sounded, well, you know, boring to TPTB. I ask, why would having a stable Inner Sphere clashing with the Clans be boring? Well, it would be because, well, it would because TPTB says so.
Not really, but hey, again, they don't like listening to the fans on or about stuff that matters. If they did, we would see a lot of things we actually want vs. what has gotten. I recall some of the TPTB back in the late 90s/early 00s telling me I was full of well bovine excrement when I said selling mechs in a box set of four and five would work and really help folks out and get them into the game faster.
Really odd how that turned out to be something that, wait for it, actually is working, but hey, what did a fan know, after all how dare fans have ideas and offer them to those who are writing the game and all. Oh sorry, wrong topic to rant on. Moving on to the topic, sorry.
Victor on the throne of the Fed-Com also means the FWL and CapCon are marginalized to some extent. That could have led to the two realms either fighting it out to see who would face things as a sole survivor, or it might have encouraged a uniting of the two to counter the Fed-Com, something that seemed to be kind of hinted at with the supposed marriage between Sunny and Isis. But then that was seen as well overdone and dropped.
With him on the throne and having an heir, we would have seen him less in the field and thus either Kai or someone else stepping up to play Knight Errant of the Realm and all that. None of this would have stopped Katherine from making plays for the throne. After all, we saw how quickly she was to move when Victor was busy with actual missions of state. With him having a stable family and an heir, it would mean that the Steiner-Davion bloodline would continue to rule the Fed-Com for at least another generation, maybe two if the heir was a male.
As for his inability to have kids, I believe he got Omni pregnant, or it was hinted at, so I don't think he was "damaged" in any way. If that were the case, then we would see him offer things to one of his other siblings since he wasn't the power-hungry type.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
07/22/22 10:28 PM
45.51.181.83
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The statement was if Victor died or could not have a child due to things like radiation poisoning, which sounds pretty common with mech warriors.
We know he had a child by Omi.
I just though adding in a clause to the FC charter would be smart, in order to allow another to take his place when he retired or died. This should have been thought about when discussing the merger before it happened. Part of lawyer talk that should have been done before the wedding of Hanse and Melissa. The SL should have seen to some sort of succession line security.
Being knocked down is the very thing that happened because of the removal clause. Which is why I asked about it.
Yeah yeah, I know. The game does not deal with real logic well. And this would be very real logic.
You said something about the future of the FC, and possibly someone getting it back together again. That might well be something to look into. Marriage would be out of the question, as both house leaders are related, though it might be far enough out to avoid genetic issues. Then again, they could well tap the clans to clean up any issues that might occur.
Granted, the current story where the FS is basically part of the DC, and the LC portion having issues with everything else, this would not be easy.
It is funny that the fake Thomas never had another child. Or that Isis wasn't given the chance to marry, damn. forgot who took over the LA/LC. Had that happen, there would have been a major change in the future. But again, a superstate destroys the game by making economic might just out produce all others.
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Karagin
07/22/22 11:14 PM
70.118.172.64
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The throne would have gone to his heir, not to a random person. If he had an heir, then the line of succession would have been clear. Again nothing stops his sister or another relative from challenging things that would be common and normal. But it would also mean they would need a lot of support to pull off that coup.
I thought there were some other kids of Thomas Marik besides Isis and Joshua, and I need to double-check things again. Adam Steiner from that Cartoon fame, gods, I wish they had let that crap die. He took over once old Katherine was off warming Vlad's bed.
The current story is the fallout of the shoehorned Dark Age crap from the Clicky Tech game setup to fit things verse an actual from the ground up purpose written story/plotline.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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