ghostrider
05/03/22 12:04 PM
45.51.181.83
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I don't remember seeing anything about how close dropships, especially spheroids, and land near each other.
In the open.
Or at a space port.
I know they can be moved closer, or apart thru large platforms, but when doing an invasion, what is the minimum distance they have to be apart?
Yeah, I know they can't physically touch each other, or problems happen,
The discussion came up when dealing with Defiance and buying materials from the company on Hesperus. The discussion suggested that the starport on Hesperus would be a problem, as the amount of open land was in short supply, and it would have to have a massive set up for all the deliveries and pick ups happening at one time.
We have used basically a kilometer between each ship just to make sure, but that is a problem when trying to keep a strong defensive posture. It was also done that way since the old strafing rules. This would make sure you couldn't take on multiple grounded dropships in one strafe.
We did assume that a dedicated Starport had runways for aerodynes to use to land and take off, with minimal issues with moving/towing the ships on concrete, so they could be parked closer to each other like normal aircraft.
As a side question, how big is Defiance's Starport?
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Cray
05/03/22 08:13 PM
104.136.113.133
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Quote:
I don't remember seeing anything about how close dropships, especially spheroids, and land near each other.
There's a blast radius for their drives. See p. 88 Total Warfare: 6 hex radius for spheroids, or a 6-hex cone behind aerodynes.
Quote:
The discussion came up when dealing with Defiance and buying materials from the company on Hesperus. The discussion suggested that the starport on Hesperus would be a problem, as the amount of open land was in short supply, and it would have to have a massive set up for all the deliveries and pick ups happening at one time.
Hesperus II might have a short supply of flat land compared to, say, Earth, but:
1. It's a whole planet. Earth has about 50 million kilometers of pretty flat, unforested land (plains, deserts, savannah, etc.). If Hesperus has merely 10% of Earth's flat land then it still has 5 million square kilometers.
2. It has 40% water coverage. That's about 200 million kilometers of flat surface for a spaceport. Daring military spheroids can plunk directly into the water, though the skill rolls suck.
3. It has a population of about 50,000 for most of its history. Spaceports won't have to compete with suburban sprawl from Hesperus II's giant metropoli.
4. It's not a challenging engineering project to flatten some mountain tops. It's a standard 20th-21st Century mining practice.
Quote:
As a side question, how big is Defiance's Starport?
There's nothing canon about it, but Hesperus II has a tiny population and only produces a trickle of exports compared to civilian production on a typical planet. The output, not more than a few hundred 'Mechs and vehicles annually, could be handled by a Mule or two landing once a quarter if you stuffed the goods in as cargo.
So the Defiance Spaceport could occupy less space than a typical small, private airport of the 20th Century (2500-foot runways recommended), though its ferrocrete landing pad would be much beefier than the airport's landing strip.
It's impressive to think about it: the Tesla Fremont factory produces about 450,000 cars a year, or about 1 million tons of goods annually. Meanwhile, if Hesperus II produced a ridiculous 500 Atlases a year it would only be producing 50,000 tons of goods. The shipping requirements are trivial.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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ghostrider
05/03/22 10:57 PM
45.51.181.83
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I was going to suggest cutting mountains down for more area, but nah.
The materials I was thinking about were spare parts, ammo, and other smaller items the company seems to produce. Not just the fully built units like mechs and vehicles.
The Kincaid issue with the MAC suggests they do more then fully built units. I can see more then a few dropships looking to buy ammo and spare parts, like the double heat sinks after they were researched. Also dropship parts would probably be built there, as they do have the shipyards that build the Claymore and such.
Now they might be built on other worlds in the system, I don't know.
I would also think they do repairs onworld as well. We know other factories around the main Defiance plants make items, but don't know if they share the same Starport with Defiance.
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Cray
05/04/22 07:31 PM
104.136.113.133
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Yep, they probably produce other bits for a very small market: the Inner Sphere military market. Even if they were keeping tens of regiments of 'Mechs working and maintained, the factories of Hesperus II just don't produce much in the way of tonnage.
At the ludicrous level of, say, 50 regiments of assault 'Mechs per year of production (540,000 tons of 'Mechs, vehicles, parts, components, doodads, ammo, commemorative corporate T-shirts, etc), you'd need one Mule-class DropShip landing per 5 days to haul that out. And Mules don't have a large cargo capacity, just 8,000-ish tons.
So, spaceport with room for two DropShips could service the needs of the planet.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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ghostrider
05/05/22 08:28 PM
45.51.181.83
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Do factory built mechs, like from Defiance, come assembled?
Or are they shipped in pieces?
The question came up while thinking about the tonnage of equipment moved verses moving fully built machines.
The idea of Defiance having a small Starport doesn't sound like a company that makes multiple mechs and vehicles. I would assume they are all fully functional being loaded onto dropships, so the weight put out isn't the deciding factor for dropship berths.
The idea of units picking up their equipment from the worlds sounds like something that would happen as well. A merc unit might only have 1 to 4 mechs they are picking up, so would send a Leopard, while something like the LC Royal guards might have an Overlord pick up a full battalion. I will assume Defiance has some safeguards when this happens, but 2 spheroid landing bays doesn't seem to cut it. With pumping out Hunters and such, it would seem aerodynes would need more bays. since it would figure Gazelles would be common craft.
Is there a spot where it states the size and berths in one of the rule/TRO style books?
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ghostrider
07/01/22 08:00 PM
45.51.181.83
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Does Defiance and other large manufacturers fill orders in a large unit?
Or do they send out smaller batches?
Say someone buys a full battalion of mechs.
Do they split them up into lances or even smaller units to be picked up or delivered?
Or do they wait until the entire order is complete?
This doesn't even have to be about mechs either. A battalion of vehicles could well cause the same issue.
This question came up in a conversation with someone that their group found a jumpship that they couldn't use, so sold it to one of the houses, then ordered close to a battalion of mechs.
This also calls into question if the factories continue to make units, even if none are ordered?
Or do they only work when orders are posted?
The fluff in the TROs suggest runs being made, but how much space is available to mechs in storage until the run is complete?
Or is it shipped out as they are made?
The GM was stumped on this question.
The unit only has so many dropships and jumpship available to pick up their orders, and yet the whole concept of if a company delivers was not answered yet.
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Cray
07/01/22 09:44 PM
71.47.208.18
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Quote:
The GM was stumped on this question.
The GM is God in the game and can do whatever suits their campaign. There's nothing canon on this.
Most buyers will be angling for small quantities of a 'Mech model. Given the expense of DropShips and JumpShips, I'd assume they're fairly filled up when leaving Hesperus and the cargos would be be scattered at distribution centers where passing JumpShips and DropShips with spare room can deliver the small quantities to their final destination.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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ghostrider
07/01/22 10:13 PM
45.51.181.83
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The GM is one that likes to discuss with the group on things like this. There were more then two sides to this, and each has some compelling input.
There was the concept of having the mechs sent out to 'warehouses' but this has the problem of being raided for any stored units there. I still believe there would be some spots where they put units in storage until someone purchases them. It is highly unlikely someone would travel to, say Defiance, for a unit, if they are stationed on the TC border, or maybe even in the DC/CC. That is a long way to send a limited resources for a merc unit.
The concept of waiting for a full run has issues as well. It is very possible for one line to shut down due to a lack of parts. Simply a lack of an engine, or say a ppc for a unit that was ordered with others. For some, this is almost required, as they might well have to rent a jumpship alone or with a dropship to pick them up. A unit in garrison duty without their own transport fits this one.
Having a partial delivery has issues as well. Getting part of an Assault lance that you need isn't going to work especially if you only get 1 mech out of the 4. Yes, it is better to get something over nothing, but again, this changes a lot of plans.
This is also a problem when ordering just parts, such as ammo or replacement items. A lance of panthers that had their right arms destroyed waiting for replacements would have a major issue if only one arm comes in. Or having a tight supply of LRMS, and empty bins in some Archers, Crusaders and Catapults comes to mind.
Then the price of shipping such supplies comes to mind. If the company delivers, do they charge for use of a dropship, and each jump of a jumpship to send it to you? That would sound logical, but that would mean it would be cheaper to go elsewhere, especially if the manufacturer doesn't own their own fleet.
For some worlds, this would be a bit odd. Outreach, once the other mercenary hubs shut down is one such question. It would be assumed a regular shipping route would have been formed by the larger manufacturers. Just ammo would see to that. The quick load up of ammo for a mission being the main case here. Most mercs sitting around rebuilding really would not want thousands of tons of stuff sitting around for people to just walk in and take as they can't defend their own supplies. Money flow with over head comes to mind.
This is pretty much just looking for some extra input into this.
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ghostrider
07/02/22 11:28 AM
45.51.181.83
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A discussion came up that brought up a few more thoughts.
Say the time frame is just after the 4th war. You have a huge amount of units that were damaged, and now have to replace their losses, and have money to do so.
So you have a good 20 or so units head towards Defiance, because that is the main one most know about, and want to buy units they ordered over the HPG and arrive at about the same time. As each unit doesn't want the same things, as their make up and combat design shows, what happens with those partial orders?
As it is likely that production runs will be done, as it is unlikely they will have separate lines for each variant type of unit they make, you have a parking lot at the jump points, as well as ships looking to land to save some fuel. The factory may well be short on things like missiles, as the war just ended, and stocks would be low. Supplies to make them may well be snarled, as normal in war times.
As few units suggest they have a dedicated line to their unit type, it would be assumed that not all units made by the company are being made at the same time.
With the scenario, it is also unlikely they will have a stockpile of any unit.
As there is no real numbers on how many of what type of unit is made, the question does exist on how many it can make. This runs into the issue of creating a few regiments worth of mechs in a few months, which was a problem with the FC regiments before the merger, so a ball park figure is about the best that can be done.
Again, some input is wanted for this.
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Pht
08/15/22 06:45 PM
98.20.185.65
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Quote:
Do factory built mechs, like from Defiance, come assembled?
Or are they shipped in pieces?
The question came up while thinking about the tonnage of equipment moved verses moving fully built machines.
The idea of Defiance having a small Starport doesn't sound like a company that makes multiple mechs and vehicles. I would assume they are all fully functional being loaded onto dropships, so the weight put out isn't the deciding factor for dropship berths.
The idea of units picking up their equipment from the worlds sounds like something that would happen as well. A merc unit might only have 1 to 4 mechs they are picking up, so would send a Leopard, while something like the LC Royal guards might have an Overlord pick up a full battalion. I will assume Defiance has some safeguards when this happens, but 2 spheroid landing bays doesn't seem to cut it. With pumping out Hunters and such, it would seem aerodynes would need more bays. since it would figure Gazelles would be common craft.
Is there a spot where it states the size and berths in one of the rule/TRO style books?
This is completely speculation, but I highly doubt that mechs ordered as complete mechs would be shipped in parts; because they are fairly complex. You have to QC check stuff as a functioning system to see if all the parts work together as a system.
If you've ever built an engine for a car, that's one example of this in play. Things can be true of it as an assembled system that wouldn't be knowable about it until you have it together. Mechs are exponentially more complex.
You couldn't assure the customer that they were getting a working product.
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ghostrider
08/15/22 08:49 PM
45.51.181.83
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The question came up because of the tonnage of things does not equate to space needed for fully assembled units.
Example: A union could carry 12 Atlases that were complete, yet a mule would be able to carry far more if they were in parts.
This is important as the size of a space port comes to question. Something that only holds 2 dropships sounds far to small for a company like Defiance to handle their day to day operations, much less dealing with others picking up orders.
It gets even more screwed up when you think of units bringing in their damaged mechs and such to be repaired at the factory.
And vehicles are made at Defiance as well, so that adds even more issues.
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