Fortress II

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ATN082268
07/08/13 12:32 PM
69.129.18.69

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BattleTech Vehicle Technical Readout
* CUSTOM WEAPONS

Type/Model: Fortress II
Tech: Clan / 3072
Config: Tracked Vehicle
Rules: Level 3, Custom design

Mass: 200 tons
Power Plant: 200 Fusion
Cruise Speed: 10.8 km/h
Maximum Speed: 21.6 km/h
Armor Type: Hardened

Armament:
2 Arrow IV Systems
2 ER Medium Lasers
2 SRM 6s
2 Grenade Launchers
4 Anti-Missile Systems
2 Anti-Personnel Pods
2 B-Pod*
1 Angel ECM Suite

Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System: (Unknown)

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Fortress II
Mass: 200 tons
Construction Options: Fractional Accounting

Equipment: Items Mass
Int. Struct.: 80 pts Standard 0 40.00
Engine: 200 Fusion 0 8.50
Shielding & Transmission Equipment: 0 4.25
Cruise MP: 1
Flank MP: 2
Heat Sinks: 10 Single 0 .00
Cockpit & Controls: 0 10.00
Crew: 14 Members 0 .00
Sponson Turret Equipment: 0 3.50
Armor Factor: 645 pts Hardened 0 80.63

Internal Armor
Structure Value
Front: 20 125
Front L / R Sides: 20 110/110
Rear L / R Sides: 20 100/100
Rear: 20 100

Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Items Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Arrow IV System Lf_Spon 0 30 2 18.00
1 ER Medium Laser Lf_Spon 5 1 1.00
1 SRM 6 Lf_Spon 0 15 2 2.50
1 Grenade Launcher Lf_Spon 0 1 .50
2 Anti-Missile Systems Lf_Spon 0 30 3 2.25
1 Anti-Personnel Pod Lf_Spon 0 1 .50
1 B-Pod* Lf_Spon 0 1 1.00
1 Arrow IV System Rt_Spon 0 30 1 18.00
1 ER Medium Laser Rt_Spon 5 1 1.00
1 SRM 6 Rt_Spon 0 15 1 2.50
1 Grenade Launcher Rt_Spon 0 1 .50
2 Anti-Missile Systems Rt_Spon 0 30 2 2.25
1 Anti-Personnel Pod Rt_Spon 0 1 .50
1 B-Pod* Rt_Spon 0 1 1.00
1 Angel ECM Suite Body 0 1 1.50
1 C.A.S.E. Equipment Body 0 .00
Cargo Bay Capacity Body 1 .12
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 10 21 200.00
Items & Tons Left: 24 .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 23,521,544 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,928
Cost per BV: 12,199.97
Weapon Value: 2,662 / 2,662 (Ratio = 1.38 / 1.38)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 48; MRDmg = 33; LRDmg = 24
BattleForce2: MP: 1, Armor/Structure: 0 / 46
Damage PB/M/L: 9/7/4, Overheat: 0
Class: GA; Point Value: 19
Specials: ecm, artA
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
07/08/13 02:16 PM
208.54.38.244

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How about instead of posting one massive tank after another how about thinking up of a story line of a couple of pages explaining why the tank was built and what it did in a combat setting?
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
Maurer
07/08/13 03:00 PM
142.11.67.185

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I think it would be more cost effective to field a Daishi (or two) instead of this tank, faster speed, better terrain traverse. This tank's payload is rather light for its tonnage and quite frankly the armor and internal structure alone count for 60% of its weight.

ANT, if your gonna continue making these 200 ton Rolling Coffin Paper Weights, you need to come up with better ideas.
"Captain! We're completely surrounded on all sides." - Kiff, Futurama
..."Excellent, then we may attack in any direction." - Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

"A fool fights a war on two fronts; only an idiot defends on one." - Fusilier
Karagin
07/08/13 07:13 PM
72.178.85.122

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Wow...talk about deja vu...same weapons as almost all of your other moving pillboxes. Really what game are you playing? Orge? I mean Which variant of the ORGE are you fielding now?

This thing is no different then your other tanks, same issues, slow speed, WAY too much armor, price is a bit lower then your normally range but hell the Banger STILL is cheaper by far, and why did you even bother with the secondary weapons? Those could have gone to refit an Urbanmech and been of more use.

So really which house or Clan is going to be building this thing? It has no real role in the game, we get it you love Arrow IVs, great, we get it, you like artillery, suggest you join the military and become an artilleryman. What point is the Grenade Launcher for this thing? or the A-Pods of B-Pods? Anything gets close to this thing it is dead. Infantry aren't dumb they will stand out of the most of the secondaries and blast this thing with their anti-mech weapons and it's dead.

Really what is the point behind these 200 ton tanks? You keep posting the same thing over and over again, and yet we have not gotten any good reason why they would be built. And yet if we comment on them you get all upset about it when we point out how junky they are.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
07/08/13 07:14 PM
72.178.85.122

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I agree, he needs to explain the reason behind these things or something.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Maurer
07/09/13 02:34 AM
142.11.67.185

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Quote:

I agree, he needs to explain the reason behind these things or something.




ANT's reason probably is "because he can". Which is all fine and dandy, except every one of his designs is the same slow, hardened, light hitter.
"Captain! We're completely surrounded on all sides." - Kiff, Futurama
..."Excellent, then we may attack in any direction." - Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

"A fool fights a war on two fronts; only an idiot defends on one." - Fusilier
ATN082268
07/09/13 03:09 AM
69.128.58.222

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Quote:

Quote:

I agree, he needs to explain the reason behind these things or something.




ANT's reason probably is "because he can". Which is all fine and dandy, except every one of his designs is the same slow, hardened, light hitter.





The Fortress II is a dedicated mobile Artillery battery used for whenever you need Artillery support. I think a lot of what sets apart the Fortress II from other designs is its large amounts of Hardened Armor which help it absorb tremendous damage and reduces the possibility of a critical hit. Even if you manage to immobilize the Fortress II, it can still fire artillery for an extended period of time which does not require line of sight and can reach out to 102 hexes away. The sponson turrets also give the design excellent fields of fire.

Some designs I include fluff, some not. It's my choice. If someone doesn't know how to use artillery or unaware the Fortress II is an artillery battery, that isn't my problem and they shouldn't be using the Fortress II in any case. You have the choice to use or not use designs like this, so I don't see a problem. I don't rag on people for posting or using, Light 'Mechs, for example, so why would you rag on me for posting, say, 200 ton tanks? It is a waste of time trying to malign designs you don't like to use in the hopes everyone else will not use them either.
Karagin
07/09/13 06:16 AM
72.178.85.122

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I can get better MOBILE artillery by using the hovercraft or other chassies types that actually can MOVE. Your super tanks which ALL have damn near the same weapons are NOT mobile at all. They are slower then a 99 year old woman with a walker. Your super tanks are TOO SLOW, pack way to much better and do not offer anyone a reason to NOT use smaller vehicles which are cheaper, faster and one can buy three or more for the price of most of your 200 ton monsters. But wait we have told you this every time and yet you still keep posting the same vehicle over and over with cosmetic changes and a new name.

We are NOT ragging on you, we were offering ideas to make things better, and trying to show you that while the 200 ton tanks are cool they just don't work well. And you seem to be getting all bent out of shape and upset when we point out the flaws etc...might be time for some self assessment on your part.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
07/09/13 06:16 AM
72.178.85.122

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You do have a point and each and every time we point out the flaws or problems he goes off on his tirade that we are picking on him.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Maurer
07/09/13 05:19 PM
142.11.67.185

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Quote:

Some designs I include fluff, some not. It's my choice. If someone doesn't know how to use artillery or unaware the Fortress II is an artillery battery, that isn't my problem and they shouldn't be using the Fortress II in any case. You have the choice to use or not use designs like this, so I don't see a problem. I don't rag on people for posting or using, Light 'Mechs, for example, so why would you rag on me for posting, say, 200 ton tanks? It is a waste of time trying to malign designs you don't like to use in the hopes everyone else will not use them either.




First, I wasn't trying to rag on you, my apologies if it came out that way. I ment, you create your designs, because you can - HMP allows it.

Second, once again, your tank is all the same as your other designs and simply a poor choice to use. I cobbled this together in a few minutes (I don't have all the fancy Post Jihad stuff and I forget the ECM). But I want to show a point.

Code:
          BattleTech Vehicle Technical Readout
VALIDATED

Type/Model: Untitled
Tech: Clan / 3060
Config: Tracked Vehicle
Rules: Level 3, Standard design

Mass: 95 tons
Power Plant: 190 Fusion
Cruise Speed: 21.6 km/h
Maximum Speed: 32.4 km/h
Armor Type: Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
2 Arrow IV Systems
2 ER Medium Lasers
2 Grenade Launchers
4 Anti-Missile Systems
4 Anti-Personnel Pods
2 SRM 6s
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System: (Unknown)

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Untitled
Mass: 95 tons

Equipment: Items Mass
Int. Struct.: 40 pts Standard 0 9.50
Engine: 190 Fusion 0 7.50
Shielding & Transmission Equipment: 0 4.00
Cruise MP: 2
Flank MP: 3
Heat Sinks: 10 Single 0 .00
Cockpit & Controls: 0 5.00
Crew: 7 Members 0 .00
Sponson Turret Equipment: 0 3.50
Armor Factor: 413 pts Ferro-Fibrous 1 21.50

Internal Armor
Structure Value
Front: 10 149
Left / Right Sides: 10 99/99
Rear: 10 66

Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Items Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Arrow IV System Lf_Spon 0 15 2 15.00
1 Arrow IV System Rt_Spon 0 15 1 15.00
1 ER Medium Laser Lf_Spon 5 1 1.00
1 ER Medium Laser Rt_Spon 5 1 1.00
1 Grenade Launcher Lf_Spon 0 1 .50
1 Grenade Launcher Rt_Spon 0 1 .50
2 Anti-Missile Systems Lf_Spon 0 24 3 2.00
2 Anti-Missile Systems Rt_Spon 0 24 2 2.00
2 Anti-Personnel Pods Lf_Spon 0 2 1.00
2 Anti-Personnel Pods Rt_Spon 0 2 1.00
1 SRM 6 Lf_Spon 0 15 2 2.50
1 SRM 6 Rt_Spon 0 15 1 2.50
1 C.A.S.E. Equipment Body 0 .00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 10 20 95.00
Items & Tons Left: 4 .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 7,032,350 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,227
Cost per BV: 5,731.34
Weapon Value: 2,165 / 2,165 (Ratio = 1.76 / 1.76)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 48; MRDmg = 33; LRDmg = 24
BattleForce2: MP: 2T, Armor/Structure: 0 / 15
Damage PB/M/L: 10/5/4, Overheat: 0
Class: GA; Point Value: 12
Specials: artA



For less then the cost of your one tank, I could field two of a similar design. That's twice the firepower alone, which can be a tide turner, and can be enough of a deterrent for the enemy to attack it reducing tremendous damage and reduces the possibility of a critical hit. Positioning a defense force or spreading out the two tanks can also reduce tremendous damage and reduces the possibility of a critical hit. Using a lance of my Nashorn I NAS-45D or company of my a Arbalest Artillery Hovertank can also reduce tremendous damage and reduces the possibility of a critical hit while increasing fire power and mobility a magnitude greater then this 200-ton Rolling Coffin Paperweight.

I'm not trying to rag on you man, but there are way better possibilities then bigger is better.
"Captain! We're completely surrounded on all sides." - Kiff, Futurama
..."Excellent, then we may attack in any direction." - Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

"A fool fights a war on two fronts; only an idiot defends on one." - Fusilier
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
07/09/13 05:30 PM
208.54.32.128

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Would this be a bad time to mention that he could build tanks that are even more massive than 200 tons?

I was playing around with some rules that I built a deep water ship that drop ships could land on. I cant recall the books name. I got board with it before I ever finished designing it.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
Karagin
07/09/13 06:17 PM
72.178.85.122

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This one would be used, it's cheap enough not to break the bank and it allows for other units to be plugged into things. And you are correct bigger isn't always better.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
07/09/13 06:18 PM
72.178.85.122

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Oh yes he could build them bigger and that means he would be using the support vehicle rules and we would see something the size of a oil tanker moving around with the same load out of weapons.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
ATN082268
04/27/18 02:51 PM
69.128.58.222

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Ah, one of my favorite unkillable designs I think Fortress II and Stealthy II are my favorite vehicle designs...
Reiter
04/27/18 07:17 PM
45.48.53.140

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And almost a 5 year bump of a necro post. Bravo, what new 200 ton monster could you not think of and just had to re-show this one ?
AmaroqStarwind
04/27/18 08:02 PM
99.203.155.29

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Be civilized, please.
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
MechEngine (Alpha) -- On Hiatus

The Scientist Caste has determined that time travel is dishonorable.
Retry
04/27/18 08:59 PM
64.189.130.11

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Quote:
Ah, one of my favorite unkillable designs



I've killed one with an Angel ConvFighter.
AmaroqStarwind
04/27/18 09:41 PM
108.255.82.176

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Well, I've seen Clan OmniMechs get taken down by infantry, which means anything is possible...

And who could forget the Kodiak that tripped on a building and killed the pilot in the first two turns of combat? Enemy wasn't even close enough to get off a single shot.
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
MechEngine (Alpha) -- On Hiatus

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Retry
04/27/18 11:29 PM
64.189.130.11

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Quote:
Well, I've seen Clan OmniMechs get taken down by infantry, which means anything is possible...



That isn't too difficult to do either. Field guns or field artillery will suffice if you're outside of an Urban environment, even/especially the lighter stuff like AC/2 and AC/5 grade weapons. Anti-Mech INF that get close enough to board a 'Mech will too (well, any INF that can get close can be dangerous, other than flechette infantry).

It's also feasible to make really good, deadly conventional infantry. Clan Heavy Jump Infantry points are annoying and powerful. Stone's Trackers SF are downright scary due to their huge range and good firepower. But enough about infantry.

I'm not talking about "I once guided a proton torpedo through a tiny thermal exhaust port" level fluke that allowed the Angel to kill the Fortress II, it has a very specific, repeatable, easy to exploit weakness:

Fire.

Use an Inferno Arrow IV, Inferno Bomb, Inferno SRM, Flamer, etc. aimed at igniting the hex the Fortress II is in, lighting its feet on fire. All of a sudden this vehicle, which could theoretically survive a NAC/20 blast with ease, is in a spot of bother, as if it doesn't move out of the way it's got a high chance to fry something important.

Since it's slow AF, moves 2/3, it's also feasible for one to cover some of the hexes behind, to the side, and in front of the Fortress II in such a manner that it simply isn't possible for the Fortress to actually move out of their own personal circle of hell in a turn, which means a forced check. This depends on the environment you're fighting in and where the Fortress is, naturally (If the Fortress is in a woods around rough terrain and hills, you'll need a lot less infernos to cut off his escape routes). If it takes a moderate motive critical hit, it's now at 1/2 movement, this tactic becomes even easier to do and needs 5 extra hexes on fire to trap it (although in practice this is often a lot less).

If it reaches 0 movement (and given its speed and that it's a vehicle that'll take all of 1 turn in the scopes of a decent cluster weapon) then it's also very vulnerable to Inferno Arrow IVs, very difficult to counter due to their huge range, even with counter-battery fire.

In the scenario I'm talking about, technically the Angel didn't do it all by itself so it's ever so slightly misleading. The Fortress was parked in a light woods and took some counter-battery fire so it was slowed to 1/2 movement by that time. I had called an Angel w/ Inferno bombs to strike its location. One missed, the other hit its target, lighting the hex on fire and causing a "driver hit" crit and 1 or 2 other goodies. The next turn it was hit by counter-battery fire again, causing a motive crit and immobilizing the vehicle for good.

We may have hit it with an Inferno Arrow IV or two for good measure after that, I'm not sure. This was a while ago.

So we have an immobile vehicle in a burning woods. I think its Arrow IV got a weapons malfunction too somewhere along the line because it didn't do much of anything from that moment on. Technically it wasn't wiped from the map (and hardened armor's crit reduction seems to apply to fire weapons like Infernos, for some reason), but it certainly wasn't going to do anything useful after that, so we called it a mission kill. The Angel even survived the run and Winchester'd out to safety. Since most of the combat was going on elsewhere on the field, we just let the poor guy sulk and roast.

We were playing on a larger map, but I think we were playing BV that time. Or maybe it was a hybrid system. Anywho, the guy who brought it clearly didn't get his money's worth.

Eventually, our side won and the fighting died down. The fire also died down and there was basically nothing left functional on the tank by that point. We had our surviving Infantry (BA I think?) board it and purge the original owners. After the match when our Battalion was finally able to find something that could haul the bloody thing back, we sent its husk as a war trophy and a gift to the Angel pilot.
AmaroqStarwind
04/28/18 12:56 AM
108.255.82.176

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Wow.
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
MechEngine (Alpha) -- On Hiatus

The Scientist Caste has determined that time travel is dishonorable.
Karagin
04/28/18 02:17 AM
72.176.187.91

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FASCAM the crap out the board this thing sits on...even it's helpers will have trouble dealing with that...
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
ATN082268
04/30/18 08:40 AM
69.128.58.222

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Quote:
Since it's slow AF, moves 2/3, it's also feasible for one to cover some of the hexes behind, to the side, and in front of the Fortress II in such a manner that it simply isn't possible for the Fortress to actually move out of their own personal circle of hell in a turn, which means a forced check. This depends on the environment you're fighting in and where the Fortress is, naturally (If the Fortress is in a woods around rough terrain and hills, you'll need a lot less infernos to cut off his escape routes). If it takes a moderate motive critical hit, it's now at 1/2 movement, this tactic becomes even easier to do and needs 5 extra hexes on fire to trap it (although in practice this is often a lot less).

In the scenario I'm talking about, technically the Angel didn't do it all by itself so it's ever so slightly misleading. The Fortress was parked in a light woods and took some counter-battery fire so it was slowed to 1/2 movement by that time.



Nice story. However, among other things, it seems like you are talking about another unit as the Fortress II has a starting movement of 1/2 and cannot take a motive critical hit to slow it down to 1/2.


Quote:
Technically it wasn't wiped from the map (and hardened armor's crit reduction seems to apply to fire weapons like Infernos, for some reason), but it certainly wasn't going to do anything useful after that, so we called it a mission kill.



So, whatever unit you are talking about wasn't actually destroyed
ATN082268
04/30/18 08:59 AM
69.128.58.222

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Quote:
FASCAM the crap out the board this thing sits on...even it's helpers will have trouble dealing with that...



As with other scenarios, it depends on a variety of factors including, but not limited to, your unit composition, enemy unit composition and the battlefield. FASCAM won't really help you that much against the Fortress II. The main weapons of the Fortress II are Arrow IVs. It depends on a few factors but you generally want to park the Fortress II behind a hill or something that blocks line of sight and reign in death.
Retry
04/30/18 09:00 AM
64.189.130.11

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Quote:
Quote:
Since it's slow AF, moves 2/3, it's also feasible for one to cover some of the hexes behind, to the side, and in front of the Fortress II in such a manner that it simply isn't possible for the Fortress to actually move out of their own personal circle of hell in a turn, which means a forced check. This depends on the environment you're fighting in and where the Fortress is, naturally (If the Fortress is in a woods around rough terrain and hills, you'll need a lot less infernos to cut off his escape routes). If it takes a moderate motive critical hit, it's now at 1/2 movement, this tactic becomes even easier to do and needs 5 extra hexes on fire to trap it (although in practice this is often a lot less).

In the scenario I'm talking about, technically the Angel didn't do it all by itself so it's ever so slightly misleading. The Fortress was parked in a light woods and took some counter-battery fire so it was slowed to 1/2 movement by that time.



Nice story. However, among other things, it seems like you are talking about another unit as the Fortress II has a starting movement of 1/2 and cannot take a motive critical hit to slow it down to 1/2.


Quote:
Technically it wasn't wiped from the map (and hardened armor's crit reduction seems to apply to fire weapons like Infernos, for some reason), but it certainly wasn't going to do anything useful after that, so we called it a mission kill.



So, whatever unit you are talking about wasn't actually destroyed



No, it was definitely a Fortress II. Now that I think about it I don't think it ever was at 2/3 movement, so that's my bad.

We were using the Sprinting rules, among other things, so perhaps that's what has me confused.

Pardon me, as this was one match from years ago.

Being reduced to no movement and no functional weapon systems is pretty much "destroyed" by any stretch of the imagination, especially after boarders reduce your crew to slather afterwards.


Edited by Retry (04/30/18 09:26 AM)
Karagin
05/01/18 12:38 AM
72.176.187.91

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Quote:
Quote:
FASCAM the crap out the board this thing sits on...even it's helpers will have trouble dealing with that...



As with other scenarios, it depends on a variety of factors including, but not limited to, your unit composition, enemy unit composition and the battlefield. FASCAM won't really help you that much against the Fortress II. The main weapons of the Fortress II are Arrow IVs. It depends on a few factors but you generally want to park the Fortress II behind a hill or something that blocks line of sight and reign in death.



Line of sight to saturate a map board? Please go look the rules up again. I am not aiming at your tank, I am aiming at a map hex set. The mines are going to be all over the place, you will either sit still thus being an easier target or you will take damage from the mines as you move, same with your other lance mates.

Okay so your tank is sitting behind a hill, cool, FASCAMs cover the areas around it, it's NOT going to be moving, and if it does boom goes the mines and boom goes your vehicle. Or the lance mates of this thing spend several turns trying to clear a path for it, congrats on that, but that could cost you one or more, if not all, of those units, so your tank with all the firepower you have given it is still stuck and thus even easier to take down.

And your Arrow IV comment means what? That you can fire similar ammo, congrats on that, but it doesn't mean your ability will hem in a more mobile unit as completely as will be done to yours. Oh yeah you can still fire at my units with Artillery but here is the catch mine can move, factors of having things that aren't held to a spot because it moves slower then molasses in January.

Also check the rules on fire and vehicles while you are at it. No matter how you try to swing things your crawling tank is going to be a dead tank far sooner then anything facing it will be. Hence why super tanks aren't that popular nor are they that common.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
ATN082268
08/29/22 09:44 PM
166.182.83.210

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I think the Fortress II and the Maus are among my favorite vehicle designs
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