Prototype Jumpship 2107

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Requiem
11/07/22 08:01 PM
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https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Deimos_Project

Quote:

On August 28, 2107 the prototype JumpShip was towed to a point 7 AU directly above the north pole (zenith) of Sol. It took 10 days to power the ship externally.

On September 3, 2107 the research flagship Volga transmitted the jump signal to the prototype ship. Less than one minute later the prototype successfully rematerialized 7 AU from the south pole (nadir) of Sol.

Three issues –

First - This project was named the Deimos Project after the Martian moon where the project was based.
Thus the time taken to move he ship from Deimos to the point 7 AU directly above the north pole (zenith) of sol.

Very rough calculation – 65 days minimum to tow it into position ….. was this taken into account with the above dates?

Second –

The jump is going from point 7 AU directly above the north pole (zenith) of Sol to 7 AU from the south pole (nadir) of Sol.

i.e the prototype ship would have gone through the sun as this is the direct line of travel – thus can we conclude that whist in FTL going through a sun will have no effect upon a jumpship?

also 1 minute to jump such a short distance - shouldn't it have been virtually instantaneous?

Thoughts please?

Third –

Don’t you think the star on the Deimos patch looks like an early Cameron Star – Star League?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.


Edited by Requiem (11/07/22 10:51 PM)
CrayModerator
11/08/22 07:41 PM
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Quote:

Very rough calculation – 65 days minimum to tow it into position ….. was this taken into account with the above dates?



By 2107, 1G fusion engines were available. 7AU could be crossed in about 6 days.

No, the transit time was not factored in. Given the number of support ships involved, charging might've occurred during transit.

The error in the quote is that Sol's standard jump points (and proximity limit) are a bit over 10AU from Sol, per hyperspace travel rules found in DropShips & JumpShips, Explorer Corps, AT2R, and Strategic Operations.

Quote:
i.e the prototype ship would have gone through the sun as this is the direct line of travel – thus can we conclude that whist in FTL going through a sun will have no effect upon a jumpship?



The ability to ignore obstacles is confirmed explicitly in Strategic Operations, which goes into additional depth on hyperspace travel. The first jump "through" Sol is upheld as an example therein.

Quote:
also 1 minute to jump such a short distance - shouldn't it have been virtually instantaneous?



As noted in Strategic Operations, jumps of any length are not instant. It takes time to form the field then rotate a ship through hyperspace.

Quote:
Thoughts please?



I think you should read Strategic Operations.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Requiem
11/08/22 10:01 PM
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When does Strategic Operations come into effect – as 2107 seems a bit early?

Quote:
By 2107, 1G fusion engines were available. 7AU could be crossed in about 6 days.



Is this travelling at the same speed as a dropship in the far future?
So when did humanity gain the technology to move a ship a this speed and also when did we get the front shields to protect the ship from dust particles / small rocks etc.

Quote:
The ability to ignore obstacles is confirmed explicitly in Strategic Operations



Um … so in 2107 we have computers and scanners than can dodge the sun whist travelling at FTL isn’t this expecting a bit from the first prototype?

As wouldn’t you want the first track clear of all obstacles?

Also if you have a warship with such scanners wouldn't it be impossible for a missile / cannon round to strike a ship as they would have an automatic dodge function - moving in micro FTL jumps - as they have been programmed to dodge anything whist moving from jump point to planet in FTL?

Quote:
It takes time to form the field then rotate a ship through hyperspace.



Yes … but even 1 minute seems a little long.

Problem is I do not have Strategic Operations – so, is it free to down load?

Additional Early Spacecraft issues

Note Magellan Program
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Magellan_Program

Magellan One was launched from Crippen Station in 2030
Therefore, arrival in Tau Ceti System – 2080-2090
Return communications to Terra would arrive 2130-2140

Slowboat Colonization ship
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Slowboat_Colonization

Launched between 2082 and 2099
arrived at Tau Ceti Mid-22ND century
Assume Travel time approx. 50-60 years

Thus every ship would be sent out with absolutely no information whatsoever!

Pathfinder Mission
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Pathfinder_(Vessel)

December 2108 – January 2109

Also couldn’t the Pathfinder mission return with the Magellan Satellite / Rover ?

Also couldn’t a smaller jump be used on the heading of each slowboat to jump ahead of them- board / stop them and return them to Terra as they know their trajectory and speed?

P.S. Third –

Don’t you think the star on the Deimos patch looks like an early Cameron Star – Star League?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.


Edited by Requiem (11/09/22 08:36 PM)
Requiem
11/08/22 10:08 PM
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Also if we have ships that can move at the speed suggested in 2107 – shouldn’t we have mass colonies on Moon, Mars, Belt etc as commerce to move people and goods is reduced to a very short period of time?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
CrayModerator
11/09/22 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Also if we have ships that can move at the speed suggested in 2107 – shouldn’t we...



....read the House Sourcebooks, DropShips & JumpShips, Explorer Corps, AT2R, Strategic Operations, JHS:Terra, Masters & Minions, and the Sarna wiki rather than posing a false negative question? Yes.

Quote:
mass colonies on Moon, Mars, Belt etc as commerce to move people and goods is reduced to a very short period of time?



All those existed and have been in publication for decades.

In BattleTech, Luna was settled in 2016. It was a major off-world industrial center.

Mars was being explored at the same time as Luna was settled. Fusion rockets opened it to very rapid exploration in 2020.

The Magellan program launched interstellar probes in the late 2020s, using fusion rockets to send automated missions to the nearest star systems at 68% of light speed. They helped guide the early scout missions of the Deimos project. See: Magellan Program.

The Belt was extensively settled in the 21st Century and was viewed as the future source of Terra's resources and population expansion until the Deimos project made asteroid settlements uncompetitive. See: Belters.

Mars and Venus were being terraformed by the late 21st Century thanks to fusion rockets and extensive automation. (See: Lowell and Aphrodite projects.)

JumpShips and easy access to habitable planets mooted further development of the Terran system. The asteroid belt became a backwater. Luna was reduced to a civil service complex by the Hegemony. Mars' terraforming was finished to give the ultra-super-duper wealthy exotic homes on the Grand Canal of Mars. Venus's terraforming was finished out of inertia and eventually hosted hundreds of millions of settlers until ComStar neglected its terraforming maintenance and it fell apart in the late 31st century.

Again, all of this is answered in published works and have been out for years. I'd recommend posing questions without assumed negatives. Like, "Did BattleTech colonize the solar system before the Deimos Project?" rather than "Shouldn't it have colonies?" Because, yes, the Terran system was colonized.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Requiem
11/10/22 12:22 AM
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Quote:
…. rather than posing a false negative question? Yes.



Sorry, but can you please expand on how this is a false negative as I do not understand this?

House Sourcebooks – where ? page number please as I can’t find any information …

All other books I do not have.

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Terra

Mars – set about taming Mars in the Late 21st Century – where does it discuss the industries of Mars early on (2107) Early 22nd Century – minimum technology
Peak at 2765 –
No entry stating fusion rockets opened it to very rapid exploration …

Luna – no entry within sarna – no entry under 2016 / Terra /

Note had to hunt down Lowell and Aphrodite

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Department_of_Mega-Engineering

Lowell
“the Terran Alliance used the enormous growth in resources flowing into the Terran system to funnel resources to Project Lowell. Seeding the planet with bioengineered moss and hardy plants”
Sorry but this is just stating that it is funnelling resources only would take until the 23rd century before “the economy of mars to begin expanding”

Grand Canal of Mars. – where is the date? https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Terra does not have a date for the "Schiaparelli Project" ?

Aphrodite
Did not commence until the waning years of 22nd century … not the beginning 2107

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Belters

USA settled Metis – 2031 no other entry re colonization.
The improvements and spread of more efficient fusion engines and k-F drives allowed mining and other industrial concerns to focus on exploiting other planets.

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Fusion_engine

Fusion technology was achieved by the Western Alliance in 2021

Yet when did they become available for mass use?

Quote:
using fusion rockets to send automated missions to the nearest star systems at 68% of light speed



Magellan program launched from Crippen Station in 2030

Distance 11.88 ly (light years)
Speed 0.68 c (speed of light)

d = vt
t time
d distance
v speed

c = 300,000 km/sec
d = 1 ly = 9.461e+12 km

t = (11.88 x 9.461e+12) / (0.68 x 300,000)

t = 550,964,117.6 seconds
t = 9,182,735.294 minutes
t = 153045.5882 hours
t = 6,376.89951 days
t = 17.47 years (at 365 days /year)

thus arrived Tau Ceti 2048 (approx)

2200 – 2230, pre-hyper-pulse communication technology is distributed to all colonised worlds’ (from House Marik Sourcebook)

Thus signal will take 50 – 60 years to reach Terra

Signal received Terra 2098 – 2108

Note if it takes only 17.5 years to reach Tau Centi – why delay slowboat colonization – could go there and be back in 35 years with Fusion engines which is way quicker than 77.5 years utilizing a Magellan probe with substandard communication device, so why bother?

Quote:
and eventually hosted hundreds of millions of settlers



2765 – over 70 million people population

However with no terraforming – domes and mass ship transport to and from terra how long would it take to create / move 70 million people – 100 to 150 years? Thus by mid 22nd century same population as that of 2765 – especially when you compare how fast the exodus is occurring to new worlds ….
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
ghostrider
11/11/22 11:34 AM
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Given the fact that a jump is magical in what it does, the fact that it can jump thru a star, planet, asteroid field, and all sorts of things shouldn't be surprising.
There is quite a few things in deep space that could get in the way of a jump. This might be why misjumps happen.
An uncharted or unknown black hole could well cause problems with jumps.
But with the change in the ships clearing out the jump spot before the ship gets there means the dangers of jumping into dust clouds is reduced from the initial description of a jump.
Though would this allow a jumpship to move a station in the jump area when materializing?

I would believe it is more like space folding in nature, then actual jumping. There is no movement, nor does it distort time as much as allowing something to move huge distances in a very small amount of time.
But I can see why they didn't use space fold, as the distance limit is easier to enforce with a jump. Space fold should mean unlimited distance.

And yes, user ignored is still in effect.

Though given the fact everything in the universe is constantly moving, wouldn't that mean that the time the ship is jumping, would mean they would actually have to jump in "front" of where they wanted to appear, having the solar system arrive at the same point as the ship at the appropriate time?
Requiem
11/13/22 08:00 AM
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One more point of enquiry

Magellan program
Distance 11.88 ly (light years)
Speed 0.68 c (speed of light)

if a small particle strike occurs at this velocity how does it survive?

does it have the energy shield on all ships in the future? or are we just trusting to luck?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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