AmaroqStarwind
12/27/22 01:08 PM
104.28.202.77
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A thought came up: what would an AI-designed mech look like? Probably really weird, I reckon.
Suppose one of the Great Houses or one of the Clans had the idea to use artificial intelligence to design a BattleMech from the ground up. Would it even be recognizable as a mech? Would it be at all superior to human-made designs? Would it have some serious oversights due to humans not being involved in its design?
Other people's speculation is welcome. And concept art too.
(For context, I am specifically referring to in-universe appearance, not gameplay statistics.)
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
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Cray
12/27/22 07:38 PM
71.47.208.18
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I actually cooked up a series of AI-designed 'Mechs. The premise was that an SDS base had been left unattended for centuries and the semi-AI computers came to some weird conclusions. They eventually began raiding the Inner Sphere for information and updates.
Mystery Mechs part 3, the AI-designed machine with a suggestion that the Clint has a similar (AI-designed) origin
Mystery Mechs part 1
Mystery Mechs part 2
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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AmaroqStarwind
12/27/22 07:40 PM
104.28.202.77
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Wait, that was you who wrote those? I didn't even know the stories were also on the Sarna forum.
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Cray
12/27/22 09:56 PM
71.47.208.18
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Quote:
Wait, that was you who wrote those?
Yep. Not the Clint, but the Mystery Mechs.
Quote:
I didn't even know the stories were also on the Sarna forum.
I usually post on multiple forums when I have a design to share.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Edited by Cray (12/27/22 09:57 PM)
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AmaroqStarwind
12/28/22 10:45 AM
104.28.202.77
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Hmm. I wonder what would have happened if the Clans encountered one of those mystery mechs.
Also, I could actually see artificial intelligence being used to optimize future mech designs in the Jihad and Republic of the Sphere eras.
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Cray
12/28/22 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Also, I could actually see artificial intelligence being used to optimize future mech designs in the Jihad and Republic of the Sphere eras.
My pet theory is that BT's humanity is severely AI-averse based on its history.
Projects Lowell and Aphrodite, the terraforming of Mars and Venus, had to use vast amounts of automation. Mars would need a dwarf planet's mass of water and nitrogen imported, which wouldn't be delivered by a couple of comets or polar nuclear explosions. Venus needed to export or sequester dwarf planetary masses of carbon dioxide. The scale of mass moving approaches hundreds of millions, if not billions, of human workers...unless lots and lots of robots were involved.
Meanwhile, the Terran Alliance was having labor unrest because it had high unemployment levels and people grumbling about being forced to work "long" 30 to 35-hour work weeks. This is another sign of high levels of automation in the economy. If you can send automated, AI-driven Magellan probes to other systems on decades-long, autonomous missions then you can automate a lot of unskilled and semi-skilled jobs.
Conclusion: later eras took a look at the vast, automated factories and excavation robots of Lowell and Aphrodite, and at the Alliance's labor problems and said, "Hell no." No later nations wanted 50% unemployment because everything was handled by legions of robots.
Following this theory, the Hegemony's SDS AIs were unique challenges because they were tightly shackled to be non-sapient and obedient, but clever enough to fight space battles. They had lengthy decision-trees based on the tactical skill of a human admiral but none of the true intelligence. This kept the Inner Sphere from freaking out about the Caspar drones, as did insistence that the Caspars be built by humans rather than in automated shipyards.
By the 31st century, there's a general aversion to a lot of cyberpunk elements in BT: the FWL has extensive bionics bigotry, most nations dislike extensive human genetic engineering (even the Clans are just fiddling with fancy eugenics), and true AIs are absent from the setting.
Or BT just might be a tech-stunted universe for other reasons.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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ghostrider
12/28/22 12:51 PM
45.51.181.83
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I can see why AI was kept stunted, though it stifles more advanced concepts.
If you can build war machines that don't need human pilots, then you remove the entire concept of the game.
This also means bionics would be more rampant, as especially hackers, would want to interface with those units or even the factories, and become the newest overlord that has control of the computer driven warmachines.
We can stay away from the fact that eventually, logic would dictate to the AI programs humans are wasteful creatures.
This would mean scenarios of full planetary extinction of human, possibly all life forms, on a world. And you think the use of WMD was bad in the game. Pure robots don't need air and are pretty much unaffected by poison and a lot of other chemicals.
As for designed mechs, there is one question that needs to be asked to get a full discussion here.
Are the mechs for human pilots?
Or designed for pure AI?
That would change the looks dramatically, as human pilots would be more inclined to bipedal looks, while AI unit would really be weird. Quads and even more 'legs' would probably be prevalent, with turrets more likely then arms.
Granted, this would be based on more real life tech advancements then the game seems to want.
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AmaroqStarwind
12/28/22 04:14 PM
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You know the joke, "Computers in IRL 21st century have more SRAM than computers in BT 31st century have HDD space"? Because I can't help but think of that.
As for AI-optimized mech designs, you could definitely add constraints like "for human pilots", "must be omnimech-compatible", etc. Or you could remove the constraints and let the genetic algorithms go ham.
And as for unemployment rates, you could simply require that artificial intelligence not replace humans unnecessarily: "If a human can do the job just fine, let humans do the job."
Edited by AmaroqStarwind (12/28/22 04:15 PM)
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ghostrider
12/29/22 08:53 PM
45.51.181.83
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The issue is someone will always say replacement of humans you have to pay, is necessary.
The people that own the company want more profits, and removing paid humans as well as safety measures to keep them safe makes profits even better.
Though this does open up more skills that players might need dealing with pure AI driven units.
It might also make a player roll to see if they are completely freaked out by the AI unit. Spider with big crab-like arms and googly 'eyes'.
It also calls into question some of the safety features normal mechs have, as they harm the pilots when exceeded. A pure energy based unit doesn't have to worry about cooking a pilot for instance.
As a side note, how much damage does a cat like mech do when it latches onto an enemy mech and uses the back 'feet' to rake the opponents mech?
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AmaroqStarwind
12/29/22 09:41 PM
104.28.234.78
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I'd probably treat it as kicking.
Quote:
"Oh, why you bite?! Stop bite!"
"Rawr rawr, I'm feral!"
I could still see some factions in BattleTech secretly using artificial intelligence to optimize certain characteristics of their designs, like the Clans optimizing the geometry of their fusion engines. In fact, some of the Protomechs are probably AI-optimized designs.
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ghostrider
12/29/22 10:23 PM
45.51.181.83
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Wow. Just had a thought that is off the wall.
An AI driven mech could well 'flip' the arms/legs, and walk upside down, as gravity isn't an issue for it.
So a Scorpion mech could well have the weapons on the belly for one minute, then on top the next. That alone would freak out more then a few people.
So a kick... Would that mean the unit could be kicking the torso of a unit it basically jumped, and latched onto? That could really be scary, especially if the unit were to hold on upside down and kick at the head... Yeah, too much fantasy here.
Would a unit be allowed to try and flip or knock down another while performing this style of attack?
Almost like a charge, but only using the extra weight of the mech itself grabbing onto the other unit?
I guess parameters would also be needed to determine the design. Going for fear factor is much different then going for efficiency.
Horns and demon faces might be fear factor, while a simple, non threatening design might well be efficient. No odd points to be knocked off, or jam movement.
At this point, I would think an AI design might well make it so jump jets can be used to help 'charge' another unit, or be added in to inflict extra damage. The thrust adding to the damage of the 'charge'. This is something human pilots would not even attempt, as it means automatic harm to themselves.
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AmaroqStarwind
12/30/22 04:02 AM
104.28.234.78
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Artificial intelligence might also go for equipment combinations that make no sense to a human, but confer some contrived advantage according to its preferred strategy.
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
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