perry5
03/15/23 09:05 AM
49.36.109.123
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Expansions seem to be extremely popular these days. It seems like just about every board game has one, if not multiple expansions available. The problem with these is... I don't think I've found a single expansion that actually made the game better... They add complexity. They add options. They add game-time, but they don't add fun.
Perhaps it is a testament to just how good base games are these days. They don't need more. Keep it light and simple.
To be clear, if someone enjoys an expansion, more power to them... I just really don't see the appeal personally in most cases...
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Karagin
03/15/23 10:26 AM
38.48.39.237
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Cool thing about Battletech, you don't need the expansions to play. You need a playing surface, a hex map is best, something to proxy the mechs, the record sheets and a rule book, and some dice. That's it.
Nothing else is needed to enjoy the game. As you said, adding in complex rules slows it down. If tose are not fun for you, leave them out. I know plenty of players who will not use anything that is not found in the standard rule book. Others won't use vehicles. Many will not use Clan forces or weapons. And it's all well with in the rules to play that way.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
03/15/23 10:49 AM
45.51.181.83
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I would say D&D of old was the exception, but then you said these days, so this doesn't really count.
Been a while since I bought a board game. The last one was a monopoly one, think the Lord of the Rings version.
But as Karagin said, the base game for Btech is playable with the original books. The newer rules covers a lot of things like fighting in a void. Also, take what you like and use it, and leave out the rest.
As most people fight on populated worlds, worrying about low g isn't a problem. You just fight on standard gravity worlds. Which the game doesn't deal with heavy g worlds. I get that as asteroids and even inside space stations/jumpship/non moving dropships are possible for fights.
I think some of the home made rules adds in some fun, but not always. So take in suggestions and see what fits.
Expansions will always exist, as it is a way for companies to make money without creating a whole new game.
As stated, taking the best out of it is probably the only way to go.
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Requiem
03/25/23 03:58 AM
1.158.193.188
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Beginners Box – hex map of various rural terrains integrates with CityTech (Hostile Urban Environment) additional separate terrains (purchased additionally) that provide additional new environments then Aerotech (introducing fighters / dropships)
Should we consider that they each add on to one another to add value to the base game box?
Then there are the completely separate games that should be considered
Command – consider this fighting on a large scale, then use the Beginners Box / CityTech to fight the individual battles once opposing units confront their opposition units.
Solaris – arena fighting.
All new books (are supposed to) provide additional information / games / weapons etc that provide the players with exciting new challenges.
Problem – history books – working out repair logistics if your unit moves from one battle zone / employer to the next – eg Clans invasion of IS … also captured clan weapons on IS vehicles etc.
So not all expansions make the game worse - some improve the game.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Inypt
03/25/23 12:43 PM
71.190.163.147
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As a general rule, I would agree. Most expansions are just "more" and don't really enhance a game. They really should only be purchased by those who have played the base game for long enough that it needs more diversity for them since they know it basically to well by now.
But there are standout exceptions. For example Terraforming Mars: Prelude is simple, low rule addition. Speeds up the game, and makes players feel more unique from each other. Even if I'm teaching the game to an entirely new player, it helps give them direction. It's a win for that game in every way. I would never play TM now without if it's available.
Twilight Imperium 3, the first expansion fixed a major flaw in the base game. I don't think there would have been a TI4 if the correction wasn't made. Nobody played the base game ones it came out. It was very needed.
And even little games like Flamme Rouge, the game is very simple. An amazing introduction to board gaming type of game. The first expansion just adds some very light lift rules, and it greatly diversifies the game for people who play it often.
Now I noticed Battletech wasn't mentioned in the post, but it is in the Battletech segment of the forums. So this last bit will be about Battletech specifically. The new Box releases I would argue don't even count as expansions. They are all free standing options, which do not require the purchase of any of the other box sets. They biggest difference is they just take part in different places in the time scale of the universe. So whichever floats your boat is the one to choose.
Now from what I've seen many who start dabbling in Clan tech, and later vehicles don't tend to turn back and keep brining those extra rules into there games. Sometime they don't. I find most don't treat the rules as an expansion where you integrate it in, and never reverse back though. I think we can all agree if you enjoy this game, you enjoy rules to a certain extent. And drifting from 3025 battles with just mechs, to 3150 battles with all the bits and bobs are just the type of thing that attracts people to this game instead of others.
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ghostrider
03/25/23 01:03 PM
45.51.181.83
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Some of the newer rule books for BT added in things the original game didn't have. As I have not seen if the newer box sets have changed the 'beginning' rule book, some of what I say next might be wrong.
The original book dealt with fire, but did not deal with things like fighting on asteroids, nor did it really deal with breaches in armor locations. Sealed vehicles is another thing that was not in the original books, and honestly, the first boxset rules didn't even include vehicles.
The vehicles were the main thing, that added a bit of rules in the beginning of the game, but even with them, you could get around not having the 'expansion' to play. It pulls out a bit of what you can fight, but then this game was set for big stompy mech fighting each other. Vehicles added a lot to the game.
The inclusion of SL tech, then clantech goes back to the main issue with any game that has an 'ultimate' weapon. sooner or later the 'heroes' get a hold of it. Then what comes next? You need bigger and badder weapons to challenge them. Most seem to nerf the hell out of the weapons the heroes just got, so they can't use that solar system destroying weapon to wipe out any future threats.
Expansions tend to go off the rails because they add in the new weapons, but that seems to be what people want. They don't want new ideas on how to add flavor to the game. Granted, the community wants more then a simple revamp of rules. I know I was like this.
As stated more then a few times, in more then a few threads, taking the best of the base and expansion rules, and using them, while removing the garbage ones seems to be the best thing. Just remember that new players need to know this before getting into a game with your group, and that others probably don't use the same ones you do. Same with house rules. Some are great, while others seem to be less then stellar. Personal preference.
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Karagin
03/25/23 10:11 PM
38.48.39.237
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Vehicles have been with the game since Citytech; they don't add any fantastic levels of complexity to the game. What they add is the tactical part back to the game.
Part of the issue with Battletech is folks tend to play Rock'em Sock'em Robots, aka move the middle of the board and blast each other like it's a boxing match. The game is supposed to be about simulating tactical combat of the 31st Century.
Vehicles don't complicate the game; since the rules are so nerfed in favor of the mechs over vehicles, it's almost pointless to use them in the game as written. The problem is vehicles were shoehorned in vs. really worked in from the start.
The most significant thing players of Battletech have is that you have a wargame that was made to be a beer and pretzel game that has become something that is no longer a beer and pretzel game. Players wanted more "realness," so FASA added in things. Then we, the players, asked for more, and they gave it to us. And here we are with a game that now has 5 plus "core" rule books, one expansion to play gladiatorial combat fighting, an RPG, wait, several versions of that, two versions of company, and higher sized expansions for those larger scale battles and one game that covers the whole Inner Sphere.
But really you don't even need any of that to play...just the box set that comes with the basic rule books,maps, record sheets, dice and some counters/miniatures. Set it all up and go have fun.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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