qatphish
06/09/23 09:49 AM
67.135.189.200
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Dumb question: was there a Stalker C or Stalker IIC developed by the clans after the Exodus? I didn't see it here on the wiki and don't remember any references in anything I have read. Since it was a more common assault mech of the SLDF, I figured some were on board when they left. Does anyone have any knowledge on this topic? Thank you.
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ghostrider
06/09/23 10:09 AM
45.51.181.83
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From the limited knowledge I have, I have not seen any reference of the Stalker being upgraded in the clans. This might be due to the weight issues causing problems with the chasis. It did go with the exodus, so they had some.
Then again, it is possible most or all of them were wiped out in the clan civil war, or fights afterwards.
It may well be an oversight on the developers as well, that they were not upgraded. There is a few things that were forgotten in the story line.
As the clans did capture Twycross, they did have access to the ones made in the LC/FC/LA, so unless they stopped production entirely, there should be some clan upgraded version of them.
As stated, a few things have slipped the developers memory, but since the clans have changed the weight of SL and even post SL models, they could well have changed the weight without much of an issue, if they believed it to be worth the trouble.
it would be nice if someone that has more information about this would chime in.
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Karagin
06/09/23 11:32 AM
38.48.39.237
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It came about later during the fighting after the Rise of The Clans post-Clan Civil Wars. Remember that Clan tech didn't come about until the Golden Century, so for any "C" or "IIC" variant to happen, it would be much later on in their history with the tech built and ready to go.
They might have a Royal variant they used that would have led to a standard "C" variant later, but they would still need their tech base built to have the equipment to outfit the mech for it to meet the designator.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Edited by Karagin (06/09/23 11:35 AM)
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ghostrider
06/09/23 03:15 PM
45.51.181.83
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From the looks of it, there was no "C" variant in the wiki, or any of the limited books I have read.
There is a Stalker II, but it was made in the 3100s.
The only clan tech one that is listed is for the Dragoon's Zeta commander, Jamison.
Otherwise, there doesn't look to be a clan upgrade. The time frame to make one doesn't cover the other mechs that the clans remade, such as the Highlander, Marauder, Phoenix Hawk, as well as many others. They made a Jenner IIC.
A simple foot note saying the clans didn't think the Stalker wasn't worth trying to update, along with a few others would be nice. And we know from the older books, the developers did think about it, as the second line mechs had the advanced "IS/SL" normal items that weighed a ton less, and took up one less critical slot, with 1 ton/1 slot minimum. I believe they retconned that out in more recently published books.
It is possible the company had to avoid making an upgrade, if they didn't own the rights to the mech.
It seems the retcon forgot to add in this mech, and probably a few others.
Now if there is a place where they say there is a "C" variant, please list the location.
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Karagin
06/09/23 10:53 PM
38.48.39.237
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Okay, so the books don't mention it; that doesn't mean there wasn't a version made. Why would they not own the rights to the mech? They just released it in the plastic version, and it was never on the list for Unseen Reseen to start with.
All the "C" means is it has Clan weapons or some Clan tech instead of the IS stuff. Examples of that would be the mechs listed in the Twycross Cenario book, where you have different IS mechs that the Second PGCs are using that are called "C:" mechs but are purpose-built to full Clan tech and specs like the IIC models.
The first record sheet books that broke things down by weight classes had the "C" mech sheet listed. A Stalker "C" could have been in use at one point since the Clans would have had the mech with them in abundance when they left the Inner Sphere as the SLDF. So it is likely that one or more of the Clans did a variant at some point, and it was likely short-lived and insignificant. Also, remember that not everything gets mentioned in the books, but logical points can be taken based on what we know of other mechs that got "C" variants.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Wrangler
07/11/23 05:06 PM
24.34.162.106
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Old news, but only Stalkers that were with the Clans were the Royal variants. The STK-3Fb.
I've checked Era Digest Golden Century, TRO: Golden Century, Historical: Operation Kodiak and it's Record Sheet book. STK-3Fb is only one in old eras that was with the Clans.
I thought there was a C model made, but they didn't have in the RecGuides (As i looked at all of them, no Stalker I could find.)
When it hits the fan, make sure your locked, loaded, and ready to go!
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Frabby
07/23/23 05:32 AM
91.39.166.5
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Wolf's Dragoons had a number of Stalkers, most notably it was a Stalker from Zeta Battalion that crushed John Waco underfoot on New Aragon in 3008.
Unless you think the Dragoons acquired their Stalkers from House Davion or captured them all from Liao at Halloran V, they must have brought them with them from Clan space.
Edit: Corrected my facts 
Edited by Frabby (07/23/23 05:41 AM)
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Karagin
07/23/23 09:50 AM
38.48.39.237
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They brought them with them, bought ones to replace loses as needed and when they did supply runs got replacements that way as well. or at least spare parts.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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DSS
08/31/23 05:36 AM
176.25.162.219
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AS to why no stalker, the fluff says they did have problems in old age with the chassis, needing some to loose mass to remain operational. I prefer the idea that it is a so so design, able to deal a good damage output at various ranges, but excels at none, so would not appeal to the trail by combat of the clans.
Me is just glad there was no awesome 2C. just did a quick design, 3/5 so no XL engine, 3 erppc, 1 mpl, 15.5 tonnes of armour and can alpha strike whilst running for only 1 point of heat. and only a third of the cost of a madcat.
wonder if sea fox would build me one?
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Frabby
09/02/23 02:43 AM
84.185.72.4
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Who needs an Awesome IIC when there is the Hellstar?
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ghostrider
09/03/23 11:51 AM
45.51.181.83
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The problem with the Stalker being so so, is that the clans change the weights and weapons of a unit when they make the IIC versions. The Phoenix Hawk went to 80 tons. The clan techs would have fixed the issues when making a IIC version. They fixed the Stone Rhino, as well as a few other 'problematic' designs.
I do agree the original Stalker doesn't have the specialization of other units. The lack of articulated arms would seem to be an issue with an assault mech. But then the original Banshee was under armed for an assault mech. The Stalker was a bracket fire mech. Not enough sinks with weapons that didn't really compliment each other very efficiently, for those that love alpha strikes. If you could manage the brackets, it was a decent to good mech. But again, the punch wasn't as good as most would have liked.
There is the Warhawk/Masakari mech that has 4 erppcs in one version, and 2 erppcs with 2 lpls. With omni tech, you could make one that has 3+ ppcs easily.
It appears that either someone forget about it when writing up the exodus units, thought there were more then enough to leave it out, or maybe someone just didn't like it.
I would think they didn't want to have non omni assaults running around that would challenge the omni assaults for being as good or better then the omnis. The Highlander IIC is more powerful then some of the assault omnis.
Just thought of another potential issue. Unless the clan manufactured more unit, the exodus would have already had more mechs in caches then they originally would have left the IS with, and not have lost so many in their civil war. So they might have used the 'weak frame' excuse to avoid having yet another battalion/regiment of yet another mech.
I know that doesn't work well in game, but as a lot of things, outside of the lore, more then a few things have to happen.
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