DSS
08/08/23 02:31 PM
176.25.162.219
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Hi, would like to say hello, as a old mechwarrior in the UK (started with 2nd edition) and just recently seen some of the new minis being reviewed on youtube, got me interested in it again.
I have been using the drawing board to design different mechs, and been trying to make classic mechs using new technology to make them as powerful (or better) than the old ones, but cheaper.
This raised a question, does anybody use battletech in a strategic sense, rather than just the tactical game it is?
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ghostrider
08/08/23 03:37 PM
45.51.181.83
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Some do. It tends to be those that run campaigns that use the same mechs no matter what. It is unusual to almost impossible to find a group that does this anymore. Most tailor their unit to the enemy.
I ran with a group that used the mechs they had, so when we had set up a decent mid to long range group, running into a map of heavy forests or city scapes difficult to do much. LRM minimums before the clan tech really messed with us. We eventually changed some of the mechs we had to deal with this, but the first few battles were nasty.
Using a really strategic sense deal with aerofighters and dropships. Even jumpships are required to get the full feeling for it. Our GM was nice enough to let a few things slide a little, but I do suspect that is because they were not up to speed on this part of it.
Scheduling ammo drops and such when dealing with multiple jumpship jumps is a pain. You don't always control the base where you ordered from, by the time the shipments get it.
It was at this time we found out the Leopard dropship had only 5 tons of dedicated storage. Most think that is a huge amount. But when you find out that is only 5 tons of lrm ammo, which is only 500 lrms, your lrm boats tend to run dry very quickly.
The GM allowed us to fill the fighter and mech bays with 50 tons of supplies each, when they were not hauling units in them. This was before battlespace and such came out. Jumpships and dropships TRO helped flesh out a lot of issues the box game had. As a Leopard, Union, and Overlord dropships could not deliver a regiment of fighters, it created more then a few problems.
Planets that had proper fighter support tended to destroy incoming fleets, as the Leopard CV wasn't in the original box set, and even with that, 6 fighters didn't stand up to over 100 defending fighters.
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DSS
08/11/23 11:24 AM
176.25.162.219
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We did run a strategic campaign system. To get round how much X/Y was needed, and how long it took, we just used the C-Bill figure to represent the time and material used.
Your mech factory would cost X, and how much you invested was it`s yearly output from the next year.
We had two Dukedoms on either side of the Lyrian/Marik broader, with 10 systems each, which we called Atredies and Harkonan (i know, original, not).
Each planet was given a grade 1 to 5, with each number the population in 10s of millions. 1/3 of the pop payed taxes, rounded down, and you had 1C-B from them to buy mechs. So even a farming planet with a pop of 10 mil would give you 3 mil to mechs.
This gave rise to some very interesting design choices, with numbers Vs abilities. It also raised a idea of taking the old designs, like the T-Bolt or Warhammer, and making new designs with the same firepower but lighter and therefore cheaper.
Also, looking through my copy of maximum tech from 99, it says a elemental point costs 3.5mil. Is that right? If so, it seems a poor value for money.
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ghostrider
08/11/23 04:03 PM
45.51.181.83
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I don't have maximum tech, so couldn't say anything definite. The pricing of things seems to be set for the IS to buy the items, which means a much higher price for clan tech, then the clans would 'pay' for it.
The inclusion of SL tech, and even clan tech, does make the older designs seem like a better choice. The simple use of double heatsinks causes a major increase in usefulness. A Warhammer that can fire all of it's weapons and not overheat shows this.
Most here seem to avoid IS XL engines due to side torso loss removing that unit from play. I can agree with that, but having some extra weight to play with is nice.
The one big factor with omni mechs is the ability to change out weapon loads. This is the one thing I will say is good for a campaign that uses specific mechs that they have. I can see this being the adjusting units to match terrain.
The old example of an Archer is good here. A heavy wooded area is the worse place for an IS LRM launcher. Now say you can swap out the LRM 20's and put in several SRMs or other short ranges weapons, yet keep the Archer's look, has a major shock factor. But this is only good if you allow IS units to have omnitech abilities.
To be honest, vehicles do have a place in the game, especially on defense. Ones with upgraded tech can really be nasty. If you have clantech launchers, both LRM and SRM, you can really put a hurt on the enemy with the normal carriers. Double the number of missile launchers, or use some of the extra weight gained from using the clan launchers to upgrade the amount of armor on the carriers shows just how much this changes the game. The carriers normal 12 points a side can change into 30 or more.
I have seen a partisan tank with ultra 5's on them. If you use C3 systems, this can be even more devastating. A hidden bunker with a master and spotter could well wreak havoc on an assault unit. ECM disrupting the enemy, while allowing your side to rain fire on them.
Your system of the dukedoms looks interesting. Would need to test it a little. I do take it you don't go beyond ground units, as dropships and jumpships are very expensive. But honestly, most people just say there is enough to move units without a problem. I can agree with that, as it is complicated to use them
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DSS
08/11/23 05:13 PM
176.25.162.219
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I am waiting for the latest master rulebook, as none of the local stores have it, but one is supposed to be getting the new battletech stuff in.
We never went beyond the simple system we had to include space asset, as we could see a problem arising. Simply put, your attack would be of the most powerful units you could build, but your defence units would be multiple cheaper units.
Also, jumpships would be off limits, but dropships would be come priority targets, and you would withdraw them at the first sign off arrack. making any attack a suicide run unless you could guarantee their safety. And if you built enough fighters to destroy any attack in space, the mechs became useless. It became a game of the pacific like WW2 with carriers and unsinkable island bases.
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ghostrider
08/12/23 12:11 AM
45.51.181.83
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The concept of the game being void because you couldn't land troops was shown to me a while back in the threads. The jumpships were not meant for being attacked, but the game implies there is a lack of them to do everything nations want. So something like needing 20 births on a jumpship, but only having enough for say 12 births comes to mind.
The use of fighters can go both ways. Until they nerfed the fighters, strafing ground units was extremely powerful. A single filled Vengeance dropship, was deadly to planetary forces, especially when the defenders didn't have many, or worse, any.
Vehicles can be helpful on the offensive. A ship like an Excalibur or Fortress can bring in mechs and vehicles on the same ship. Some vehicles are real powerhouses, like the Long Tom Artillery vehicle, if you use artillery in your campaigns. Surprisingly enough, even a Pike vehicle, with 3 ac 2's can come in handy for taking on bases. The ac 2 outranges other weapons, so if you have a view of the base, you could sit back and not worry about a counter attack, until the enemy sends out units to close the gap.
Also, depending on how 'realistic' you get in a campaign, having the support units you need brought in with you, forces the use of vehicles. Coolant trucks as well as ammo carriers and even just normal APC's change things up. I admit, they add a lot of work when used, so we have avoided them at times.
But as you said something about elemental armor, getting a hold of APC's that can carry them makes sense. Hovers especially if you want to ship some across a large body of water, as the jump jets on the armor do not allow crossing of oceans. Also, fast transport allows you to do fast attacks, where they normally aren't faster then most assault mechs, with a few notable exceptions. The Annihilator being slower then elementals, for one.
But I agree with leaving out the space combat. Unless you really want to add more work for a mission. Space combat is a pain, and a simple good(bad) roll can destroy a mission. Control surface hit at a bad moment can take out a fighter or even dropship because of a crash. Really bites having your fully loaded Overlord crash before it drops it's mech compliment.
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