blacksaibot
10/06/23 09:28 PM
68.134.248.230
|
So I've come across two websites. BattleTech's website that has these things called "record sheets" as well as "masterunitlist.info" that shows what faction used what mechs during what era.
Is there some kind of list that specifies what mechs a particular faction used in a specific battle/operation?
For example, what did Davion and CSJ use specifically in Operation Bulldog?
Why am I bugging about this? Long story short; I'm a programmer and I am interested in making a simple "3D" table top computer game that mixes the reality of the BT table top game but with visual elements from MW/MC computer games... and If I'm going to do this, I want to make sure I'm including mechs that actually took part in a specific battle.
Thanks in advance for your help.
|
ghostrider
10/07/23 02:23 AM
45.51.181.83
|
There may be some TO&E tables in books and adventure packs, but doubt they will do more then confuse a few things. A few video games had some mechs involved in taking on Huntress, but the video games are not really canon.
A few of the mercs supporting Bulldog and Task Force Serpent may be available, and even in some of the novels.
The closest thing I can think of is seeing what mechs were available to each combatant at the time.
A few things will be messed up as well. Victor Stiener-Davion will be piloting a Dire Wolf for the entire run. Given the story of how he got it, I can't even tell you if the weapons package is clan or not. I question whether the Dragoons would share that tech or not.
Even using IS mechs, some will have clan tech in them. The IS omnis will be another issue. Hopefully someone here has more information on it, or could point you to the people you need to talk to.
Wish I could give you a better heads up. I couldn't even tell you all the units that were involved,
It only gets worse when you add in RCTs and unattached vehicle units, with infantry and IS powered armor.
According to some of the novels, some of the DEST and MIIO are part of the forces sent. And that is only the FS and DC forces. Supposedly only the CC refused to send anyone from the IS. And even then, I believe a unit left the CC to join, but memory failure on my part would suggest that is wrong.
|
Requiem
10/07/23 05:23 AM
1.158.235.121
|
Suggest if undertaking research for a particular war … such as …
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Operation_BULLDOG
llook at the sarna notes you will then find the forces assigned them for eg those assigned to Operation Bulldog – including FS units … (including CC forces) were ...
1st Aragon Borderers
Davion Assault Guards RCT
Davion Heavy Guards RCT
1st Davion Guards
3rd Davion Guards RCT
1st FedSuns Armoured Cavalry
1st Kestral Grenadiers
1st Robertson Rangers
Can then undertake a search of each unit …. (pay particular note of the worlds they were assigned to as they also may have additional information)
Books that would be required – include, for example …
If I remember correctly Twilight of the Clans: Book 2: Grave Covenant by Michael A Stackpole covers Operation Bulldog.
Field Manual: Federated Suns,
Also, The Dragon Roars - Battletech book no. 1704
Other research sites should also be investigated… such as …
https://battletech.rpg.hu/mechfactory_frame.php?call=mf_content&perm=cbulldog-html&uid=101
for any era this will require vast research
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Edited by Requiem (10/07/23 05:28 AM)
|
Karagin
10/07/23 09:04 AM
38.48.37.18
|
The information you want would be in the older sourcebooks. The websites don't always have the levels of detail the books do, mainly because the folks running the websites don't want to get on CGLs' wrong side; then again, there might be some sites that do have more details than others depending on who put up what at the time.
If the mechs are in the TROs, a House or Clan uses them and are readily available during the event or battle, they would likely be in use. An example is the ENFORCER. Davion has this as one of their primary mechs, so it will turn up more in their ranks than that of Kurtia forces. Where as the Panther or the Jenner is more likely to be seen in Kurtia forces since they use those mechs more so than Davion forces.
If you are trying to recreate the older battles you will need to find copies of the older Scenario Books.
Battle of Luthien
Fourth Succession War Atlas Vols 1&2
Battle of Coventry
Falcon and the Wolf
Those will be your best bet as a start. If you can find the older scenario books about the different units that FASA put out at one point, or the older unit books like the Wolf's Dragoons sourcebook, these will give you a full breakdown of units to list off each company and what mech is in each lance of that company and who pilots them with their pilot and gunnery skills.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
blacksaibot
10/07/23 09:55 AM
68.134.248.230
|
Holy smokes! Thanks for all the good info and thorough responses!
I've definitely got my reading cut out for me in between my breaks of coding/development.
Thank you so much.
Still need to find a decent engine now that the debacle with Unity has shaken my confidence...
|
RainDoak
11/09/23 06:47 AM
159.223.137.54
|
I'm also a big fan of BattleTech, so I'm curious to know more about your plans for the game. I'm interested in learning more about your project to create a "3D" tabletop computer game that mixes the reality of the BT tabletop game but with visual elements from MW/MC computer games. It sounds like a very ambitious and exciting project!
|
ghostrider
11/09/23 06:10 PM
45.51.181.83
|
Have you seen the HBS battletech video game?
It has some features in it that might help.
It has some major changes with BT. One being the ability to use IDF without a spotter with LOS. Once you have a unit locked in, you can use the LRMs to slam them over hills. The sensor lock ability can do this, which is an interesting way to get sensors involved in the game.
But be warned. Damage is not close the BT. A few instances of how unusual damage can be comes from things like hitting a locust on one of the side torsos, only to blow out the other side torso, yet the center torso is completely untouched.
In my runs, a Commando mech seems to hit your mech heads at least one out of 10 shots. And they do survive multiple ML shots.
Evasion is interesting, but honestly, the movement penalties for being hit should be enough. The reduction of being in forests or having 'magical skills' can be annoying.
The run a light unit as far as they can, so as long as they have a unit in sight, all the other mechs can fire on it. Yet trying to hit the spotter mech, it normally has damage reduction, so an a PPC shot will not take off a limb, as it would in the table top game.
But it does have some good points that might inspire ideas.
Mechwarrior 5; Mercenaries does a good job of the 3d concept. The annoying issue was with LRMs. you can lose a lock on your target and miss, so they can be difficult to use properly. Had more then a few times, I could visually see a unit, and miss an LRM volley do to losing a lock.
One nice thing, MW5 does not have your shots just disappear when your shot reaches the 'end hex'. Ballistics and hit and harm units beyond the limit.
Ranges don't match BT though. LRMs can fire over 1k in MW5, but btech is limited to 630 meters. But the fact that the heads on mechs are NOT in one position on all mechs. The Archers is in the middle torso, while the Thunderbolts head is on the left torso. So there is no one position hits all heads.
Also weapons fire doesn't really follow bt. An ac 2 fired multiple times before an ac 20 or energy weapons can reload/recharge. This makes Jagermechs, Riflemen, and Blackjacks more dangerous then normal.
|
RainDoak
11/15/23 06:00 AM
104.236.70.184
|
Thank you. I found your points about the Commando mech's headshot accuracy and the Commando's ability to survive multiple ML shots particularly interesting. It's also refreshing to see that ballistics can hit and harm units beyond the "end hex." I agree that MechWarrior 5: Mercenaries does a good job of implementing the 3D concept.
|
ghostrider
11/15/23 09:12 PM
45.51.181.83
|
It may have just been my bad luck with the Commandos hitting me om the HBS game. It was almost always one of the srm rounds.
They do have a non canon device that can prevent pilot damage due to head shots, depending on the device. It can block 1, 2, or 3 damage to the pilot. Learned that was the best way to prevent your pilots from being in the medbay for a couple of weeks.
MW5 does show limits to the mechs ability to navigate some terrain. Even with jump jets, you still might not be able to jump onto a ridge. Also, you can and do take leg damage if you hit the ground hard, such as falling from a ridge. Even jumping and running out of the 'jump jet charge", can cause leg damage. The ability for units with weapons higher on a unit allows for being able to fire, while lower weapons get blocked by the terrain.
It would be nice to have the ability to kick in MW5, but at least they finally put in punching. Not sure if it was only in the DLCs or not. Such a pain to have a locust run around you and you can't do anything as you can't get the mech to look down enough to get a shot off.
The older MW video games were good about 3d terrain. Some missions were a pain as you could not see around corners with some having to be underground. If not for the mission showing you where you had to go, you could very well get lost going in circles.
|
RainDoak
11/23/23 05:41 AM
45.55.134.9
|
I'm particularly interested in the Twilight of the Clans novel and the Dragon Roars Battletech book, as they offer fictionalized accounts of the operation. I'm also curious about the research site you mentioned, as it sounds like a valuable resource for Battletech fans.
|
Karagin
11/23/23 02:53 PM
38.48.37.18
|
Back before things in Battletech went to crap, and they did, we used to get TO&Es of specific units, as well as books like Mercenary Handbooks gave us HOW to build a unit from the ground up. That information could then be applied to any unit existing in the game.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|