Another Lore Question

Pages: 1
Banshee42
12/29/24 03:17 AM
99.73.18.99

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
Hey all, I have yet another deep lore question for the more experienced mechwarriors.

I'm writing up a hidden world, specifically in the Lyran Hinterlands, now the former Jade Falcon Occupation Zone. I know that Comstar has carefully removed records of many worlds over the centuries, but most of that seems to be post Civil War after they get all religious.

I want this world to have been hidden during the Civil War so that it can be home to an Amaris Empire Remnant.

Basically, what was Amaris' relationship with Comstar during the Amaris Civil War?
Is hiding such a world within Lyran space something Amaris could have convinced Comstar to do or done himself?
Karagin
12/29/24 11:33 AM
38.48.37.18

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
ComStar didn't exist during the Amaris events. They came about after Kerensky took Terra back from Amaris. The Lyrans took over the majority of Rim World Republic Worlds after SLDF left them to move on to take back Terra, and Falcons, Wolves, and other Clans took them over during their invasion.

Now could a system been missed? Possibly, since it could have had a very small settlement or just been a military depot of some kind. Then there was Camelot Command aka the old shipyards that the Irregulars found. So a forgotten SLDF base or former RWR base might be out there.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
ghostrider
12/29/24 01:08 PM
45.51.181.83

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
It is always possible that a system was destroyed by the SLDF during the wars, then refugees went there to get away from the same wars. The refugees could have brought things like water purifiers, which could be needed to survive, but all were destroyed in the wars and the world left for dead.

If you really wanted a challenge to making something, it could well be an asteroid set up society. A few sections of an asteroid field having been looked over, and the population started colonizing the system after everyone thought it was dead. Given the fact Comstar did remove a few worlds from records, doesn't mean they wrote the program themselves. You could use the RWR as a basis for removing systems from the jump locations or the system was never put into that codex.

The system could have had issues like extreme radiation when found, only to have the levels drop to become livable. Or the exploration teams originally sent got lazy and did a poor exploration job, which missed a few things.

There are multiple ways of getting this done, and it doesn't have to be strictly on the books.
The game does retcon things in as needed, so there is that.

One last idea would be something on the 'periphery edge' of the RWR that was in the process of being colonized when the wars hit. As records may well have not been kept on it, the SLDF and LC might never have found it.
Comstar might be the information holders of the IS, but they are not perfect in their operations. I would think the RWR precedentor might have removed those records as they were bribed or themselves trying to start a base for themselves and was killed before anyone found out about the removal.
Karagin
12/30/24 12:04 AM
38.48.37.18

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
Also, if you have a copy or access to a copy of the original Periphery sourcebook, you will find that when ComStar ran across a lost world that had a former Amaris colony on it, they wiped it out. That entry may be here on Sarna in the Wiki, maybe or maybe not given how not everything is completely entered, you know those copyright reasons. Odd really since the Wookipedia Wiki seems to get away with not having that problem. Sorry different thread and topic, I will stop.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
ghostrider
12/30/24 01:24 AM
45.51.181.83

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
Misjumps could well happen, and once the location was determined, the people could well have gotten back to a civilized system and gotten supplies to form a colony outside of prying eyes. Not all misjumps are exploding ships or loss of jump drives.

Given the mobile HPGs and black boxes, there could well be one on a world, and it was used to contact allies or citizens of the lost system. Even setting up a coms 'dead drop' could work. Not all ships fly in strictly inhabited systems. This could well keep coms from Comstar and WOB. Given the wars, this would well be a good way to avoid anyone finding out about a system being inhabited.

Depending on how major you want to get, it could well be heavily fortified with capital ship defenses, allowing those living there to remove intruders before they can report anything.

The Comstar wiping out a world could be played out. Simply put, the colony may well have had facilities much further in the world and Comstar didn't find it. Geothermal power plants could well have powered the facilities, without showing an unusual heat signature.
Sensor baffling materials were part of an adventure pack, so it isn't like the game didn't have something that could be used.
Banshee42
12/30/24 04:24 AM
99.73.18.99

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
Okay, the reason I was looking at the Lyran Hinterlands was to allow a group of Clan Hell's Horses warriors to come across it.

It is intended to be a lush garden-world where Amaris loyalists were supposed to spent the next century or two using the Iron Womb technology to make a planet of genetically engendered fanatics (much like the Clans did) and build up an army of ridiculous giant AI assisted battlemechs that would eventually reap his vengeance on the Inner Sphere.

However Kerensky caught wind of this just before his Exodus and, not wanting to delay things, secretly dispatches a small elite force to wipe them out before they can really get going. They are successful but the handful of survivors are stranded on the hidden world as their jumpships were destroyed in the battle with the local SDS system.

They take control of the Iron Wombs and Amaris' engineered genetics and make a quiet, peaceful world (with ancient secret facilities underground) that is finally rediscovered in the IlClan era by a group of Hell's Horses or an expeditionary force from the Lyran Commonwealth, who will eventually find themselves fighting ancient 500 ton battlemechs controlled by evil AI and then an Amaris Empire Remnant that was hibernating using Star League era Stasis Tubes in the nearby asteroids.


So I guess I'm asking what the best in-universe way to make all this work is.
1. The garden world needs to bee hidden from all but the chance encounter from around 2770 to present.
2. It has to be located somewhere where some Hell's Horses and/or Lyran expeditionary force would currently be poking around.


Edited by Banshee42 (12/30/24 04:29 AM)
CrayModerator
12/30/24 10:12 AM
71.47.208.18

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
Quote:
Basically, what was Amaris' relationship with Comstar during the Amaris Civil War?



ComStar did not exist. The Rim Worlds Republic was destroyed about 15 years before ComStar was founded when the SLDF first started fighting Amaris. (Step 1: get base of operations since the Hegemony had sided with Amaris. Solution: take the Rim Worlds Republic.) And the Amaris Empire (based in the Hegemony) was destroyed about 5 years before ComStar's birth. Amaris himself was killed about 5 years before ComStar was founded.

That said, in the run up to the Star League Civil War, Stefan Amaris was pretty good about hiding some planets of his own, and not every Rim Worlds planet was annexed by the Lyran Commonwealth.

An example is Rim Worlds Republic Outpost 27, which was a small, Deep Periphery nation largely forgotten and abandoned by the Inner Sphere that the RWR bumped into and decided to use for military training, bioweapons testing, and so on.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Rim_Worlds_Republic_Outpost_27
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Coreward_Conf...ard_Confederacy

Some other Rim Worlds' secret outposts include Outposts 4, 7, and 11, though these were VERY far into the Periphery, not in the middle of the Inner Sphere like the Hinterlands.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Rim_Worlds_Republic_Outpost_4
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Rim_Worlds_Republic_Outpost_7
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Rim_Worlds_Republic_Outpost_11

But those were setup without ComStar's help. Stefan Amaris was a sneaky guy and good at long term planning, even if he was an utter failure at being Emperor.

Another remnant of the Rim Worlds are assorted bandit kingdoms. Circinus is a good example, as it was founded explicitly at the destruction of the Rim Worlds and built from abandoned Republic worlds. Likewise, the Oberon Federation was based on abandoned Republic worlds and founded shortly after the Republic's fall. The independent bandit world of Butte Hold and bandit kingdom of Morgaine's Valkyrate were later splinters from the Oberon Federation.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Circinus_Federation
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Oberon_Confederation
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Butte_Hold
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Greater_Valkyrate
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Rim_Territories

So, you should feel free to pick a Rim Worlds planet allegedly blown off the maps in the First Succession War and say, "My secret Amaris Empire is lurking there." There are good maps to use for that purpose. Here's the Rim Worlds before the SLDF seized its core worlds:
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/File:Rim_Worlds_Republic_-_2767.jpg
Here's the Rim Worlds after the Lyrans seized most of its planets:
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/File:Rwr_-_first_sw.jpg
And then here's the same area by 3025, which shows the loss of worlds in the Periphery due to abandonment and collapse of terraformed environments:
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/File:Lc-3sw-3025.png

The difference between those three maps should give you some options for hidden Amaris holdouts.

One thing to note about ex-Rimworlds planets is that they don't stay loyal to the ideals of Amaris for very long. Circinus and Oberon show what tends to happen to ex-Republic worlds: they get lost in the day-to-day effort of staying alive and maintaining interstellar government. The collapse of the Star League was an epic groin-punch to a lot of Periphery planets dependent on interstellar trade for maintaining their infrastructure and specialized industries - many collapsed to the 19th Century level of technology without interstellar trade.

If you want Comstar to later keep the Amaris planet off the maps, just have them release some bioweapons near visiting ComStar cartography ships. ComStar will be convinced the planet is dead and mark it as such on the maps it shares with everyone.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
ghostrider
12/31/24 12:09 PM
45.51.181.83

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
The AI does not have to be evil to work. Simple programming could well cause it to destroy all that are not authorized to be on world. Depending on the time frame, your hybernation pod people could well be scanned as enemies, causing the robots to attack them, IE not SLDF personnel.

A thought would be, have the world as a SLDF experiment into advanced terraforming, that includes more then just making the planet livable. Amaris troops could have found it, and attacked it, causing the AI and such to activate to defend the world. I say SLDF since it isn't likely the RWR would spend the resources doing this.

Again, time period might cause issues.
If the SDS is not deactivated or destroyed, any ship flying in space would be targeted. So any sort of craft going out of the atmosphere, such as mining dropships, would be targeted. So if you want some logic, that would need to be dealt with. I would suggest having found the controls and finally hacking it so it doesn't fire on the planets ships.

World resources might well cause the locals to avoid building a jumpship facility, as well as an HPG. If they don't need anything from out of the system, then cutting the risks by not making them seems logical (maybe).
Given the paradise idea, I would think most mining and heavy factories would be kept off world, as to avoid contaminating the world.
But this is if the people didn't just recently wake up.
Banshee42
01/05/25 04:27 AM
99.73.18.99

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
Okay, after studying the maps, I'm thinking the world could be hidden somewhere between or around Newtown Square and Barcelona (see attached map), that puts the system well with in former RWR territory, then Lyran space, the the Jade Falcon OZ.
Now, in the IlClan era how likely would that area be visited by Clan Hell's Horses and/or the Lyran Commonwealth? Attachment (18 downloads)


Edited by Banshee42 (01/05/25 04:29 AM)
CrayModerator
01/07/25 07:13 PM
71.47.208.18

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
Quote:
Now, in the IlClan era how likely would that area be visited by Clan Hell's Horses and/or the Lyran Commonwealth?



If the world was marked "blown off the maps," "depopulated," or "terraforming failed" by ComStar or even the SLDF then there's little chance of a visit in the ilClan era.

Instead, you might see the Explorer Corps poke into it during the Third Succession War, or a passing visit by a ComStar cartography ship, or even a quick visit by a Clan ship verifying ComStar map claims about annihilated worlds.

Then again, if the story's gruesome enough or the world was not known in the Star League era, then it might get skipped. What's the point of visiting a world with a reportedly collapsed environment?
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Banshee42
01/08/25 05:29 AM
99.73.18.99

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
Okay, I'm thinking something like "terraforming failed due to something like unexpectedly dense asteroid clouds across the system" giving the impression that the planet was effectively destroyed and that it is too dangerous to even jump in.


That said, I am also thinking that for the Hell's Horses, they may have caught wind of rumors stemming from the rare accidental visitors over the centuries and decided to check out whether or not the pre-Comstar maps were telling the truth and/or looking for resources to help their clan continue taking over the old Jade Falcon Occupation Zone.
They also get tailed by some opportunistic Cappellans who later awaken the Amaris Empire Remnant (it doesn't end well for them).


For the Lyran Commonwealth idea I am thinking of using a deep-lore reference I found, the "Commonwealth Scout Corps" which was created in 2413 by Archon Katherine Steiner (before the invention of battlemechs) to explore new systems around the early Lyran territory. (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Commonwealth_Scout_Corps)
This new version, revived in the IlClan era has a similar mission as the original in that it is mostly exploring known space but with the intent of reconnecting with worlds captured by the Clans and also surveying the supposedly barren systems in between to see if they truly are still empty or if Comstar/Jihad had hidden anything else. Unfortunately this "Commonwealth Scout Corps" is mostly revived a PR stunt, they take pictures for the magazines and generally give the impression that the Commonwealth is doing high-brow, morally superior work while the other houses are obviously too self-absorbed to understand anything but war (cue propaganda music).
They find this planet simply because it was next on their inspection list.
ghostrider
01/10/25 02:58 AM
45.51.181.83

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
The next on the list works out pretty well. Someone checking out the galaxy with some computer equipment and lots of time might well have spotted the star and asked what was there. So they put a thought into the ear of the scientific community to find out.
As this could happen at any time, it does not have to happen in the 2400s. So you can put it in any time line you want.

Another suggestion would be having the star(s) nova, and have everyone believe the atmospheres of the planets were blown away, with only the star remaining. As happens so often, the powers didn't bother to see if their guess was accurate. So save some money and not check it out concept.
The world was damaged, but not as badly as thought. Maybe some functioning terraforming equipment was able to reverse enough of the damage to allow the planet to survive.

the terraforming failed angle works as well. Might suggest having a moon be destroyed which causes the dust to appear to choke the world. One though would be having the equipment on the moon, trying to gain a close place to expand to. Centuries later, the dust becomes a set of rings around the world. This could explain why they were stuck on the world, as it was too dangerous to go into orbit until it finally settles down.
Pages: 1
Extra information
0 registered and 265 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Nic Jansma, Cray, Frabby, BobTheZombie 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is enabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Topic views: 1120


Contact Admins Sarna.net